Do I cash out 401k for PM purchase?

[chief]

I've been reading a few different PMs boards the past few months and I can't believe how many people are cashing out their 401ks and IRAs and buying all PMs. Is this wise? For those that have done it, do you regret it and are you still comfortable making that decision?

My company has the option of switching over my 401k/IRA to PM but I won't physically have it. I know the saying, if you don't hold it, you don't own it. Are many people doing this?

The reason I'm asking is after looking over my portfolio for my 401k stocks, in the past 5 years I haven't made much more then what I put into it. Since buying PMs this past April ( I have 95ozs silver and 1 oz gold) I have almost a thousand in profit. So I'm thinking of doing something with the 401k/IRA.
Thanks for the input

Chief

[latemetal]

I did this a few years ago, I'm happy as all hell, I was scared then and I'd be nervous now. The question I keep asking myself is " is Bernanke going to keep screwing up? ", I buy what I can when I can, but I have 10-15 years to make it back if things go south.

[pay dirt]

Its not all about profit but about preservation. Is the 401K /IRA eventually to be nationalized? Its happening right now in other countries.

[Sheepdog]

The UK is now nationalizing retirement funds to spend them for the debt. You will of course have the "word" of the fedgov. Baa! The US will do the same soon. The muslim terrorist Sotero will push for it I am sure.

I was fired in april. Laying me off would have given me unemployment ins in FL but firing me keeps the company free so thats what they did. I took my 401K funds and bought PM's. I am better off. I have also gotten my wife's max loan of 401k and am buying silver now. Maybe some gold and fractionals.

I think it is absolutely the right decision. We hold our funds now and they do not get stolen by the fedgov. We store at our credit union but are thinking about other means also.

[Silver Buck]

Something to keep in mind as you convert your FRNs, Savings, and IRAs to physical:

Beginning in 2012, if the US Health Care Bill is allowed to stay 'as is', any transactions over $600 will require the seller to fill out a 1099 on your purchase.

What does this mean? If you sell a 1 oz gold coin, you are going to have the dealer fill out a 1099 on your purchase. When Silver goes up (and I'm betting on that it will) over $60, your 10 oz bars will be 1099ed when you sell them.

So, as you convert your Cash to PM Stash, make sure you get fractionals. I'll be trading up my Silver Bars soon for Gold fractionals or Silver ounces.

Source

[Sheepdog]

Something to keep in mind as you convert your FRNs, Savings, and IRAs to physical:

Beginning in 2012, if the US Health Care Bill is allowed to stay 'as is', any transactions over $600 will require the seller to fill out a 1099 on your purchase.

What does this mean? If you sell a 1 oz gold coin, you are going to have the dealer fill out a 1099 on your purchase. When Silver goes up (and I'm betting on that it will) over $60, your 10 oz bars will be 1099ed when you sell them.

So, as you convert your Cash to PM Stash, make sure you get fractionals. I'll be trading up my Silver Bars soon for Gold fractionals or Silver ounces.

Source

Excellent point sir! I am looking for something else to happen before the end of 2012 however. I wish I could manage to tell some of you where to find my bullion afterwards as I wont need it and if you are left you very much will!

[Sindgefallen]

Something to keep in mind as you convert your FRNs, Savings, and IRAs to physical:

Beginning in 2012, if the US Health Care Bill is allowed to stay 'as is', any transactions over $600 will require the seller to fill out a 1099 on your purchase.

What does this mean? If you sell a 1 oz gold coin, you are going to have the dealer fill out a 1099 on your purchase. When Silver goes up (and I'm betting on that it will) over $60, your 10 oz bars will be 1099ed when you sell them.

So, as you convert your Cash to PM Stash, make sure you get fractionals. I'll be trading up my Silver Bars soon for Gold fractionals or Silver ounces.

Source

Yeah its called black market.

If this takes effect then we will see a depression that dwarfs the current one AND the old one. This is so burdensome that most small and medium sized businesses will either go out of business, sell to larger ones or be merged with larger ones. Downsizing.

[Sindgefallen]

I've been reading a few different PMs boards the past few months and I can't believe how many people are cashing out their 401ks and IRAs and buying all PMs. Is this wise? For those that have done it, do you regret it and are you still comfortable making that decision?

My company has the option of switching over my 401k/IRA to PM but I won't physically have it. I know the saying, if you don't hold it, you don't own it. Are many people doing this?

The reason I'm asking is after looking over my portfolio for my 401k stocks, in the past 5 years I haven't made much more then what I put into it. Since buying PMs this past April ( I have 95ozs silver and 1 oz gold) I have almost a thousand in profit. So I'm thinking of doing something with the 401k/IRA.
Thanks for the input

Chief

Yeah I doubt anybody here has regretted their decision. Some here have been piling money into metals for over a decade and those here that have made 4,5 and 6 baggers on their metals have no complaints. Those that have made negative returns in stock funds for the past 10 years are freaking losing.

As of right now it could be said that the gains would be minimal or extreme to the upside. I don't know and I don't care as I have been in this game for awhile.

Those that trade, in their retirement accounts, in metals options, etf's, miners and physical also do much better than traditional mutual funds and stocks of companies that have returned little or nothing.

So yeah I think that was a wise idea for those that have done it, look at the returns. Don't just sit on it blindly for 40 years because you may screw yourself.

[tekhen]

i haven't cashed mine out. what i have done is stopped 'overfunding'. I will continue to take the 'employer's match'
this in turn has freed up after tax funds to transfer into PMs.

[Argentum47]

I know if we had the option in the UK, I would cash my pension in and buy PM's without a second thought.

Unfortunately us Brits don't have the option.

[Sheepdog]

I know if we had the option in the UK, I would cash my pension in and buy PM's without a second thought.

Unfortunately us Brits don't have the option.

I am so sorry for your plight. Here they punish us by fining us and taking taxes of 20% or more if we take out of the pension fund. I did that in April and replaced the stolen funds very quickly. Get PM any way you can sir. The paper will be worthless soon. Very soon

[Sindgefallen]

I know if we had the option in the UK, I would cash my pension in and buy PM's without a second thought.

Unfortunately us Brits don't have the option.

How do you avoid VAT on silver though?

Anyways, I only keep 800 in my IRA and add only when I have tax liability that can be extuinguished. I have used my money as best I can and if I had kept it all in my IRA I would have about a nominal 1.38% return plus 3% dividends. Minus inflation I would be negative instead of being way far from that now.

[wjv]

The UK is now nationalizing retirement funds to spend them for the debt.

But your money will be 100% safe!!!

Like it or not, from 2012 employers will start automatically enrolling workers into a government-run private pension scheme, even if it is only a tiny company – such as a hairdressers or garage – with just one or two other employees. And Tim Jones will be looking after the money.

Jones, 54, is chief executive of Nest, the National Employment Savings Trust, which will become the low-cost default option for employers who have no pension scheme.

===

Government Run, Private Pension??? Isn't that an oxymoron?

scheme >>> Damn right it's a SCHEME!!!



Here is a great article about it:

http://www.moneyweek.com/personal-fi...ons-04402.aspx

It's been a long time in the thinking but the coalition has finally given the National Employment Savings Trust (Nest), the universal pension savings scheme dreamt up by New Labour, the go ahead. So from 2011, employees will begin to be opted in and some of their salary siphoned off into pension accounts.

Should we be pleased? Sort of. It is good news for employees (if not employers) that everyone will now be able to be in a scheme that offers both work and state contributions (3% and 1% of salary respectively).

And it is good news that the government is aiming to sidestep the way that fees eat into returns by insisting that those who end up managing the funds do so for an annual management fee of 0.3% a year.

But Nest has major problems.

The first is the fact that many savers will still end up with small pots, making their efforts pointless. If saving £50,000 over a working life means that, thanks to means testing, you get no pension credits, you shouldn't bother sacrificing your current spending for it. And if you get scammed into doing so via auto-enrolment you should be very angry. Cue a mis-selling scandal.

The odds are that the bulk of any money that workers don't manage to opt out will be shovelled into the equity markets. Yet not much has been said by the architects of Nest about the general failure of equity investors to make money.

Earlier this year, Tim Price of PFP Wealth Management explained the situation. If you look at the annualised 20-year returns from the UK stock market over the last three centuries, you will see that the results cluster around an average long-term return. That's pretty much as expected. What is not as expected – and what I assume the Nest architects do not know – is that "the median real annual return from UK stocks broken down into smaller 20-year durations is approximately zero".

[Sindgefallen]

and what I assume the Nest architects do not know – is that "the median real annual return from UK stocks broken down into smaller 20-year durations is approximately zero".

Truth hurts!

[chief]

i haven't cashed mine out. what i have done is stopped 'overfunding'. I will continue to take the 'employer's match'
this in turn has freed up after tax funds to transfer into PMs.

This is my main struggle right now. I do take the 'employer's match'. Why stop investing in the 401k when I am receiving 'free' money from my company to put into my 401k?

[graspAU]

This is my main struggle right now. I do take the 'employer's match'. Why stop investing in the 401k when I am receiving 'free' money from my company to put into my 401k?

That's my struggle, so I still do the 401k to get the match and put some after tax savings in PMs.

[Sheepdog]

This is my main struggle right now. I do take the 'employer's match'. Why stop investing in the 401k when I am receiving 'free' money from my company to put into my 401k?

biggest reason I could think of is that you will NEVER see that money on retirement. It will be spent for the govt needs on debt and the fund will be bankrupted wayy before you are able to get it. How much is 1000 a month worthless dollars worth? If it takes 10,000 to buy a coke cola will you still enjoy a good retirement? Paper money will be worthless. You arent able to retire with gold or silver on that fund. Just paper.

[Dude]

biggest reason I could think of is that you will NEVER see that money on retirement. It will be spent for the govt needs on debt and the fund will be bankrupted wayy before you are able to get it. How much is 1000 a month worthless dollars worth? If it takes 10,000 to buy a coke cola will you still enjoy a good retirement? Paper money will be worthless. You arent able to retire with gold or silver on that fund. Just paper.

Can I borrow that crystal ball? I wanna see who wins the Rose Bowl.

[Sheepdog]

Can I borrow that crystal ball? I wanna see who wins the Rose Bowl.

NO witchcraft needed brother. Just look at other countries and how they are doing it. Greece, France, The UK. Soon Spain, and Portugal, Brazil and a lot of others. When they need cash now they will get it any way they can. It helps to know that the worlds economies are going to fail and a new money system will arise to control all of the world. That is what has been planned for all along and foreseen in prophecy. So much of it has already happened to prove it is the truth.

[Goldhedge]

I am so sorry for your plight. Here they punish us by fining
us and taking taxes of 20% or more if we take out of the pension fund. I did that
in April and replaced the stolen funds very quickly. Get PM any way you can sir.
The paper will be worthless soon. Very soon

40% in penalties after all the yelling is done....

[latemetal]

I should mention I was unemployeed by choice the years I cashed out so the tax bite minor.

[Dude]

biggest reason I could think of is that you will NEVER see that money on retirement. It will be spent for the govt needs on debt and the fund will be bankrupted wayy before you are able to get it. How much is 1000 a month worthless dollars worth? If it takes 10,000 to buy a coke cola will you still enjoy a good retirement? Paper money will be worthless. You arent able to retire with gold or silver on that fund. Just paper.

NO witchcraft needed brother. Just look at other countries and how they are doing it. Greece, France, The UK. Soon Spain, and Portugal, Brazil and a lot of others. When they need cash now they will get it any way they can. It helps to know that the worlds economies are going to fail and a new money system will arise to control all of the world. That is what has been planned for all along and foreseen in prophecy. So much of it has already happened to prove it is the truth.

Well, if you told my Dad he'd never see the money, he'd prove you wrong. And because of his age, he moved most of his money to the conservative side before the DOW drop.
I think Argentina actually outright took people's retirement funds, but I'm not certain.
Other countries are not necessarily outright stealing it, but forcing a low return on investment...and it may lead down a darker path.

Over my 20 years in my 401K, it has outperformed gold, even with the DOW downfall and the rise of gold prices - only because of the matching.
Our company stopped matching in 2010, so I didn't participate this year.
The decision is still undecided for 2011, so I sit waiting.
If I get a match I go in. If not, I've got cash to buy gold/silver when I think the price is right.
Giving up my match to buy silver means I think silver will get to $57 this year. I refuse to buy at the current price as it is.
I'd rather buy 25 lb. bags of rice for $9, and I'm not even doing that (could be a mistake, I don't know).

Just my opinion. We don't have a crystal ball to tell us what is going to happen with 401K funds.
401K's were not designed to strip the middle class of their savings. I firmly believe that. It was designed to guide people to save with tax incentives because companies (especially startups) could no longer compete in the marketplace and offer fully funded pensions.

You think the tax break for mortgage interest was designed to send everybody into debt?
You probably do, if you think the 401K was designed to take your money.
If you qualify, you can live nicer, owe a debt, but pay less per month than renting in many instances - especially now.
I've got a 5 year old mortgage, but we rent our previous abode, paid off after 15 years. It pays for my current mortgage in a house twice the size.

Ladies and Germs, our current situation is grim - when you average it across the population of the US, no doubt.
Do not be average.

[Dude]

40% in penalties after all the yelling is done....

That's BS.

[Sindgefallen]

I'd rather buy 25 lb. bags of rice for $9, and I'm not even doing that (could be a mistake, I don't know).

Dude, that IS a mistake! Rice is getting expensive and I cannot find a deal like this anywhere. Jump on it.

I am buying jasmine rice whenever I see it and costco has 50#? bags for 30 bucks now. I used to buy em for much lower or half in 2006.

Where is regular rice 25# bags at for 9$ ?

[Dude]

Dude, that IS a mistake! Rice is getting expensive and I cannot find a deal like this anywhere. Jump on it.

I am buying jasmine rice whenever I see it and costco has 50#? bags for 30 bucks now. I used to buy em for much lower or half in 2006.

Where is regular rice 25# bags at for 9$ ?

Houston Chinatown where the signs with the street names have English and a whole bunch of squiggles underneath...
...and it's jasmine, the good stuff...

[Dude]

Not buying chicken beaks though, too pricy
Sorry, beer night.

[chief]

Thanks for all the great advice! I think I might just keep contributing just to get my company's match. Why throw away 4% (company's match) of my paycheck twice a month.

Maybe I can check my portfolio and change where I contribute my money. Any thoughts?

[HistoryStudent]

Nope keep what you have and send it to NEXT years CONGRESS as a NEW MANDATORY (like the great GOLD grab in 1933) Treasury 50 YEAR come due NOTE worth 5 cents on the dollar....

[Dude]

Maybe I can check my portfolio and change where I contribute my money. Any thoughts?

Our Fidelity accounts let us change where new funds are directed twice a year - and now is one of those times.
Funds in the system can be moved when you want to move them.

[Oldmansmith]

Thanks for all the great advice! I think I might just keep contributing just to get my company's match. Why throw away 4% (company's match) of my paycheck twice a month.

Maybe I can check my portfolio and change where I contribute my money. Any thoughts?

I'd see if you could get into a PM IRA that actually holds physical; I have one (Run, run away from the ETFs). You pay an annual fee, and it still may be subject to goobermint confiscation, but at least you will be investing in something tangible that should appreciate over time. I put 50K in mine almost exactly 4 years ago (half silver, half gold) and it's gone over 100K now, without any additional contributions. Of course the future may be different, but where else are you going to put it and sleep soundly?

[HistoryStudent]

I'd see if you could get into a PM IRA that actually holds physical; I have one (Run, run away from the ETFs). You pay an annual fee, and it still may be subject to goobermint confiscation, but at least you will be investing in something tangible that should appreciate over time. I put 50K in mine almost exactly 4 years ago (half silver, half gold) and it's gone over 100K now, without any additional contributions. Of course the future may be different, but where else are you going to put it and sleep soundly?

ME too. However, they charge a FABRICATION fee so in reality my 3 IRAs are a derivative of physical right NOW. Funny thing is that also charge a storage fee - DUH?

I sometimes wonder when the HERD starts a run if the physical will be available?

[Sheepdog]

Dude, do your own thing sir. If you actually trust the fedgov of Obama then yes put your money in a 401K and sleep soundly. It is already being talked about in US govt circles about nationalizing the retirement plans of Americans. Once it is fact your money will be appropriated and spent. You will have the "Full faith and trust of the fedgov however"!!

I would rather hold my shiny gold and silver money in my hand than trust a reprobate govt. and do buy food supplies sir. You may need them. Your money will be gone!