Buying And Selling Gold And Silver: New IRS Rules Start In January 2012

[TemplarX]

[Cold Finger]

Thank God for craigslist and barter

[silverblood]

You don't need to put the same post in two different subforums.

[TemplarX]

You don't need to put the same post in two different subforums.

This is a very important topic and some may not visit the other subforum.

[Irons]

Good thing I don't have any, too expensive for me. I just hang out here because you folks are cool!~

[GOLDZILLA]

Stop using dollars, and you will never get 600 of them.

[Spike]

This video may confuse some...

The 1099 $600.00 reporting starts in 2012 not this New Year of 2011.

[Godot]

There go the premiums.

[TemplarX]

This video may confuse some...

The 1099 $600.00 reporting starts in 2012 not this New Year of 2011.

I've talked with several local coin shops, and some very reputable ones think they need to start doing this in 2011. I believe a lot of people are confused. I have bigger problems; every time I buy some pm's, I seem to have a boating accident.

[Spike]

I've talked with several local coin shops, and some very reputable ones think they need to start doing this in 2011. I believe a lot of people are confused. I have bigger problems; every time I buy some pm's, I seem to have a boating accident.

Well...you're not helping. Read your thread title.

[TemplarX]

Well...you're not helping. Read your thread title.

The following is the actual You Tube video title, "New Rules: You and the IRS this January." I only modified it slightly, keeping their original meaning. Just watch the video and decide for yourself.

[Gcubed]

The following is the actual You Tube video title, "New Rules: You and the IRS this January." I only modified it slightly, keeping their original meaning. Just watch the video and decide for yourself.

Spike was correct, IMHO.

[Spike]

The following is the actual You Tube video title, "New Rules: You and the IRS this January." I only modified it slightly, keeping their original meaning. Just watch the video and decide for yourself.

I did watch it, and it's misleading...so is your title to this thread.

[YugoAK47]

OP you gonna fix the title or leave it misleading to further lead to people having no clue WTF is going on.....

[TemplarX]

Spike was correct, IMHO.

I hope we don't have to start using 1099 forms in 2011 for every $600 pm transaction, but when large coin/bullion retailers are confused, who knows!

[Spike]

I hope we don't have to start using 1099 forms in 2011 for every $600 pm transaction, but when large coin/bullion retailers are confused, who knows!

Name one retailer who is confused....Large one right. I'll call them in the A.M. Thanks

[Gcubed]

I hope we don't have to start using 1099 forms in 2011 for every $600 pm transaction, but when large coin/bullion retailers are confused, who knows!

What large dealers are confused? Give us verifiable fact rather than self serving obfuscation.

[KGMe]

I thought it was 2012 as well.

[TemplarX]

I have already given you my word; if that is not good enough for you guys, then I guess we will all have to wait until January, 2011 to find out for sure just how the new law is actually applied. I didn't write the law, and I am not a large retailer, but I have accurately related to you what was said to me by a large local retailer.

[Gcubed]

I have already given you my word; if that is not good enough for you guys, then I guess we will all have to wait until January, 2011 to find out for sure just how the new law is actually used. I didn't write the law, and I am not a large retailer, but I have accurately related to you what was said to me by a large local retailer.

More self serving B.S.

[Spike]

I have already given you my word; if that is not good enough for you guys, then I guess we will all have to wait until January, 2011 to find out for sure just how the new law is actually used. I didn't write the law, and I am not a large retailer, but I have accurately related to you what was said to me by a large local retailer.

As i thought....the only confused one was the OP

[Gcubed]

As i thought....the only confused one was the OP

Once again, Spike is correct.

[TemplarX]

Once again, Spike is correct.

Like I said; we'll see! Unless, of course, either of you has something more solid to spout besides your opinions.

[Spike]

Once again, Spike is correct.

The checks in the mail

[Spike]

Like I said; we'll see! Unless, of course, either of you has something more solid to spout besides your opinions.

Do you know how to use Google?..

[Gcubed]

Like I said; we'll see! Unless, of course, either of you has something more solid to spout besides your opinions.

I'll spout that I feel that you are not a reliable source of reliable information. You haven't provided any verifiable info on this thread.

[Zed]

More self serving B.S.

Look fluffy chops.... that lighting rod ya all got on your head might be causing lectrical interfearons! Ya all sure you got it right? What would you know... eh? Its not like you have to fill them out is it?

Jeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

[Gcubed]

Look fluffy chops.... that lighting rod ya all got on your head might be causing lectrical interfearons! Ya all sure you got it right? What would you know... eh? Its not like you have to fill them out is it?

Jeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

People wonder why I get a wee bit cranky! Fork Me...

[TemplarX]

Welcome to the Obamacare Tax Reporting nightmare!!!

Gear up for expanded 1099 information reporting starting for tax year 2011.7/13/2010 Update: The 1099 reporting of payment of over $600/year to corporations will only apply to cash, check or barter according to the IRS. It may be time to institute a policy of paying corporations via credit or debit card. This comes about because starting next year credit card processors will be required to report total annual credit card transactions to the IRS via 1099-K; the IRS will be able to compare a corporations gross receipts with the report from the credit card processor.

As part of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act signed into law March 23, 2010, by President Obama, businesses will be required to report payment of over $600 per year of goods or services made to anyone, including corporations, except for entities exempt under 501 (a), which are charities and the like. Section 9006 of the Act amended Section 6041 of the Internal Revenue service code-go ahead, look it up. This change in information reporting has been discussed for a long time as a means of tracking down more tax cheats, but until now congress had not acted upon it.

The requirement for information reporting starts in 2012. This start date suggests that means your business will need to be gathering reporting information in 2011, so it can be reported on 2012 1099s.

The law represents a considerable expansion of information reporting via 1099-MISC; in the past corporations were generally excluded from information reporting; only payment for services (and goods paid for incident to the service) over $600 per year, and goods over of $5000 per year need to be reported.

The IRS uses 1099 information for income matching ,which helps them identify businesses that are under reporting of income and not paying all of their taxes. Yes, even your business is compelled to be an agent of the IRS under certain circumstances.

So what do you need to do now? Start getting w-9s from everybody including corporations: you must have a current address and valid Tax Payer Identification Numbers (EIN or SSN) for any vendor you routinely pay more than $600 per year for goods or services-starting in 2011. A Form w-9 is the recommended method for obtaining this information; it is available in PDF format from the IRS.gov website (pdfs can be printed out using adobe acrobat reader which can be downloaded for free from the adobe.com website). Art and Business Consulting LLC and its owners and employees are not affiliated with IRS or Adobe.

Be sure your accounting program lists purchases by vendor and amount paid as you will also need this information to properly prepare the 1099s in 2012. Look at the length of your vendor list, and you will see this project is not one to be undertaken at the last minute. If you are like most businesses you probably have only been reporting a very small portion of that list. It’s going to take a while as some vendors will be reluctant to supply the information when asked. In 2011 you will have no choice, you will be required to gather this information.

What do I do if a business does not voluntarily supply the W-9 information when asked? Your business is supposed to do backup withholding of 28%, meaning you are supposed to keep 28% of what you otherwise would have given to them in payment and give it to the government instead. The threat of back-up withholding is usually enough to ensure cooperation on the part of the entity completing the W-9. There is a $50 per vendor per year fine for failure to 1099. The fine may be waived if it is not shown to be from willful neglect. Since the new information reporting requirement will be for the tax year 2011 do not do backup withholding on noncompliant corporations until then.

What if I don’t’ want issue the 1099s? In addition to the $50 fine per occurrence for failure to obtain a W-9 (see Form W-9 page 2), the government comes back to you for all the other business’s taxes; this is called Willful Disregard by the IRS and they take a dim view of it. So you get to pay the other guys taxes and yours. Very generous. So either issue the 1099′s and deduct what you paid them, or don’t deduct what you paid and don’t issue the 1099′s. Matters not to your bookkeeper or accountant, you pick. How many people’s taxes are you willing to pay?

As always Art and Business Consulting is here to help. If you need help with this issue another small business and or tax issue, please give us a call.

The usual disclaimers: Although ABC has made every effort to insure the accuracy of Taxes, Tips and Tools, misinformation, disinformation, changes, mistakes, typos and hackers happen, therefore Art & Business Consulting LLC takes no responsibility for any action taken or results based on the information supplied here in. The content of this blog generally applies to business and individual taxation in the United States of America. Internal Revenue Service Circular 230 Disclosure: As provided for in Treasury regulations, advice (if any) relating to federal taxes that is contained in this communication (including attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any plan or arrangement address herein. Art & Business Consulting LLC currently does not have a certified public accountant, human resource specialist, or an attorney on staff; this information is purely for educational purposes and not to be construed as legal or financial advice. Art & Business Consulting LLC and its employees, members and associates are not engage to practice law; you always should discuss legal matters with your attorney before talking to anyone else.

Source: http://artandbusinessconsulting.com/...tax-year-2011/

[anywoundedduck]

I have already given you my word; if that is not good enough for you guys, then I guess we will all have to wait until January, 2011 to find out for sure just how the new law is actually applied. I didn't write the law, and I am not a large retailer, but I have accurately related to you what was said to me by a large local retailer.

Thanks TemplarX. I don't know why all these supposedly good neighbor Gimmers are coming down on you. Many of us are confused and PO'd over this new rule. And I am glad you are bringing it up. We need, IMO, to get this new rule repealed. I have already written to my congressmen, as I believe, as a retailer, that it may effect me in a bad way. Whether it is 2011 or 2012, either way, I am confused. SO I AM FRICKEN CONFUSED. IS THAT FRICKEN GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE REST OF YAS. JEEZUS PETE!!!

[Zed]

Thanks TemplarX. I don't know why all these supposedly good neighbor Gimmers are coming down on you. Many of us are confused and PO'd over this new rule. And I am glad you are bringing it up. We need, IMO, to get this new rule repealed. I have already written to my congressmen, as I believe, as a retailer, that it may effect me in a bad way. Whether it is 2011 or 2012, either way, I am confused. SO I AM FRICKEN CONFUSED. IS THAT FRICKEN GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE REST OF YAS. JEEZUS PETE!!!

Have you talked to your, errrrr, ummm, accountant?

[Spike]

"""Beginning in 2012, under a little discussed mandate of the health care reform legislation, businesses will be required to report all payments in excess of $600 for services or merchandise to the Internal Revenue Service on a Form 1099.

“Under the new law, businesses will be required to send a 1099 to other businesses for virtually all purchases,� said Chris Hesse, director of taxation at CPA firm LeMaster DanielsPLLC in Washington state, as quoted by Chris Edwards in a Cato Institute blog."""

http://www.accountingweb.com/topic/t...alth-care-bill

From your quote..""The requirement for information reporting starts in 2012. This start date suggests that means your business will need to be gathering reporting information in 2011, so it can be reported on 2012 1099s"".

"Suggests?"..... More bad info...

They don't "start" sending out 1099 until 2012 on $600 or more a yr, for transactions in 2012....
.

[Gcubed]

Go git 'em Spike! I dunt wanna git banned over dis chit.

[TemplarX]

"""Beginning in 2012, under a little discussed mandate of the health care reform legislation, businesses will be required to report all payments in excess of $600 for services or merchandise to the Internal Revenue Service on a Form 1099.

“Under the new law, businesses will be required to send a 1099 to other businesses for virtually all purchases,� said Chris Hesse, director of taxation at CPA firm LeMaster DanielsPLLC in Washington state, as quoted by Chris Edwards in a Cato Institute blog."""

http://www.accountingweb.com/topic/t...alth-care-bill

From your quote..""The requirement for information reporting starts in 2012. This start date suggests that means your business will need to be gathering reporting information in 2011, so it can be reported on 2012 1099s"".

"Suggests?"..... More bad info...

They don't "start" sending out 1099 until 2012 on $600 or more a yr, for transactions in 2012....
.

It sounds like you want to take your chances with the IRS; good luck!

[anywoundedduck]

Go git 'em Spike! I dunt wanna git banned over dis chit.

And we wouldn't want to see you get banned either. Would we fellas?

[Spike]

And we wouldn't want to see you get banned either. Would we fellas?

Banned over what? Trying to correct more bad info thats posted here? In headlines....

By someone who claimed to get info from a "large" dealer,,,Bull****, he listened to a You tube, without checking his facts he posted it here and misleads.

[TemplarX]

Banned over what? Trying to correct more bad info thats posted here? In headlines....

By someone who claimed to get info from a "large" dealer,,,Bull****, he listened to a You tube, without checking his facts he posted it here and misleads.

I err, if I do, on the side of caution and the law. And you?

I have read no facts from you, only opinions!

[Zed]

It sounds like you want to take your chances with the IRS; good luck!

Don't confuse it with the 1099-K stuff regarding PayPal, eBay and card payments in general... that does start 31/12/2010. The other stuff is Health Bill related and comes in with that... if it comes in!

[anywoundedduck]

Banned over what? Trying to correct more bad info thats posted here? In headlines....

By someone who claimed to get info from a "large" dealer,,,Bull****, he listened to a You tube, without checking his facts he posted it here and misleads.

You don't know that. You assume that. From where I sit, he got it right and I believe him. The most you can say is he may be overstating the issue. But I don't think it is possible to overstate this issue.

FYI-It is rare, in my store, to have a customer sale less than $600. This bill is a bad bill, and it is going to cost me a mountain of paperwork. It is bull****, because I report to the IRS quarterly, in addition to my annual filing. Now I must file every transaction and it pisses me off. If you are pissed off too, then we are both pissed off, and leave it at that.

[Zed]

I err, if I do, on the side of caution and the law. And you?

I have read no facts from you, only opinions!

The large dealer will be being 1099-K'd by his card companies next year.... he will not be 1099 ing you!

[TemplarX]

Don't confuse it with the 1099-K stuff regarding PayPal, eBay and card payments in general... that does start 31/12/2010. The other stuff is Health Bill related and comes in with that... if it comes in!

As it stands, Obamacare and its $600 threshold 1099 tax information collecting provision will become the law of the land on January 1, 2011, unless it is amended or repealed, or unless you want to wait until the last minute to gather said information, in which case you will have the IRS breathing down your neck come 2012.

[Spike]

You don't know that. You assume that. From where I sit, he got it right and I believe him. The most you can say is he may be overstating the issue. But I don't think it is possible to overstate this issue.

FYI-It is rare, in my store, to have a customer sale less than $600. This bill is a bad bill, and it is going to cost me a mountain of paperwork. It is bull****, because I report to the IRS quarterly, in addition to my annual filing. Now I must file every transaction and it pisses me off. If you are pissed off too, then we are both pissed off, and leave it at that.

It's very simple...this change of the IRS code wording will not happen until 2012...

In other words...yr 2011 IRS code wording concerning 1099s will not change from 2010, if it doesn't change, you don't have to do anything different in 2011 then you did in 2010.

They would have to change the code wording in 2011...saying in effect...start making records of transactions over $600 to be reported in 2012...that's not what they're doing.

They are in 2012 changing the code...adding the words “amounts in consideration for property” to the 1099 code.

And YES...I do know that

The 2010 Health Care Act adds “amounts in consideration for property” (Code Sec. 6041(a) as amended by 2010 Health Care Act §9006(b)(1)) and “gross proceeds” (Code Sec. 6041(a) as amended by 2010 Health Care Act §9006(b)(2)) to the pre-2010 Health Care Act categories of payments for which an information return to IRS will be required if the $600 aggregate payment threshold is met in a tax year for any one payee. Thus, Congress says that for payments made after 2011, the term “payments” includes gross proceeds paid in consideration for property or services.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...age1199652/pg1

[Zed]

As it stands, Obamacare and its $600 threshold 1099 tax information collecting provision will become the law of the land on January 1, 2011, unless it is amended or repealed, or unless you want to wait until the last minute to gather said information, in which case you will have the IRS breathing down your neck come 2012.

Why are you yelling at me?

[TemplarX]

Why are you yelling at me?

That was not my intention (no exclamation points, no all caps).

[Spike]

As it stands, Obamacare and its $600 threshold 1099 tax information collecting provision will become the law of the land on January 1, 2011, unless it is amended or repealed, or unless you want to wait until the last minute to gather said information, in which case you will have the IRS breathing down your neck come 2012.

""" Thus, Congress says that for payments made after 2011, the term “payments” includes gross proceeds paid in consideration for property or services.""

What part of this don't you get? You are now a waste of time.

[Zed]

http://www.kitco.com/reports/KitcoNews20101210AS.html

Starting in 2012, Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act requires entities to file a Form 1099 with the Internal Revenue Service whenever they make transactions paying out $600 to another party. The measure does not create a new tax, but was meant to establish a paperwork trail to force those who should be paying taxes to do so, if they aren’t already.

http://artandbusinessconsulting.com/...able-care-act/

The requirement for information reporting starts in 2012. This start date suggests that means your business will need to be gathering reporting information in 2011, so it can be reported on 2012 1099s.

Hmmmmm?!

[TemplarX]

""" Thus, Congress says that for payments made after 2011, the term “payments� includes gross proceeds paid in consideration for property or services.""

What part of this don't you get? You are now a waste of time.

I highly doubt that, since you have given me so many hours of your time.

[Spike]

http://www.kitco.com/reports/KitcoNews20101210AS.html



http://artandbusinessconsulting.com/...able-care-act/



Hmmmmm?!

Hey ya Z..

From this "blog"... http://artandbusinessconsulting.com/...able-care-act/

Nothing more then bad information....filling our airwaves...and being listened to and posted by the uninformed..

[TemplarX]

Hey ya Z..

From this "blog"... http://artandbusinessconsulting.com/...able-care-act/

Nothing more then bad information....filling our airwaves...and being listened to and posted by the uninformed..

Uninformed,...hardly!

We'll see who is uninformed when the IRS comes calling!

[KGMe]

It's very simple...this change of the IRS code wording will not happen until 2012...

In other words...yr 2011 IRS code wording concerning 1099s will not change from 2010, if it doesn't change, you don't have to do anything different in 2011 then you did in 2010.

They would have to change the code wording in 2011...saying in effect...start making records of transactions over $600 to be reported in 2012...that's not what they're doing.

They are in 2012 changing the code...adding the words “amounts in consideration for property” to the 1099 code.

And YES...I do know that

The 2010 Health Care Act adds “amounts in consideration for property” (Code Sec. 6041(a) as amended by 2010 Health Care Act §9006(b)(1)) and “gross proceeds” (Code Sec. 6041(a) as amended by 2010 Health Care Act §9006(b)(2)) to the pre-2010 Health Care Act categories of payments for which an information return to IRS will be required if the $600 aggregate payment threshold is met in a tax year for any one payee. Thus, Congress says that for payments made after 2011, the term “payments” includes gross proceeds paid in consideration for property or services.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...age1199652/pg1

IMO, bottom line here. The code changes on 2012, not 2011.

Thanks Spike.

EDIT:
Spending some time with Google, I can't find anything but articles saying this all kicks off in 2012. I have no clue where this blog decided that this had anything to do with 2011.