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Thread: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

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    Question Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    I would appreciate some advice on ASE bullion coin purchases. I have noticed that the prices appear to vary based on the date of the ASE. Since these coins do not have a mint mark and are sold based on their silver contact, so why should I or anyone care what the date of mintage is?

    These coins are not rare? The US mint has sold over 21 million ASE thru July 2010 yet the 2010 ASE are selling for more than the 2009 or 2008 ASE. Why do dealers charge a premium for some dates?

    I understand that the US Mint has not produced BU or proof ASE since 8/08, so all the '09 & '10 ASE must be bullion coins. Right?

    I know that I'm missing some of the facts? Can you assist me? Thanks.

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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Perhaps I can give you a partial answer...

    The current year Silver Eagles cost the dealer Spot + X.
    They mark them up for a profit
    As there are none on the secondary market, they have to order from a "Primary Dealer" Primary dealers order Millions and millions of dollars worth.
    Other years purchased when silver was cheaper say 1991 Silver Eagles; (silver dipped to $3.41 that year)
    are often sold to dealers upon a need basis by an investor.
    They will purchase them at less than they pay for current year; and can sell them at a slight discount from the current years.
    Even the main suppliers get thousands of older eagles and will discount them to dealers at a slight discount.

    Yes they are Bullion...never the less, many collect them as a "Dollar" series. Some lower mintage harder to get years will carry a larger premium.

    The good thing about SAE is recognizability, you pay more for them, but you will get a higher premium on resale as opposed to selling a scuffed up 1 oz generic round.

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    Default Re: The Dates do matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Sell me all your 1996 ASE's....then i will give you some facts.

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    Default Re: The Dates do matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Welcome to GIM, Dave.

    When the physical silver market tightens to the point where the mint will discontinue ASEs altogether, the mint year will make a BIG difference (1996 aside).

    All other things being equal, why not buy low mintage years like 1994 and 1995?

    http://americansilvereagles.us/bullion-coin-mintages/


    Bullion Silver Eagle Coin Mintages

    The United States Mint has been striking American Silver Eagle Bullion coins on an annual, non-stop basis since 1986. These legal tender coins weigh in at one ounce and are minted in .999 fine silver. Intended for investors and required by law to produce them in sufficient quantities to meet public demand — which has been unprecedented in recent years, the US Mint has struck more than 207 million of the coins from 1986 to 2009.
    American Silver Eagle Bullion Mintages 1986-2009

    The following are the latest available figures from the U.S. Mint. The final 2011 mintage amount will not likely be available until February 2010.
    <TABLE cellPadding=5 width=150><TBODY><TR><TH>Year</TH><TH align=right></TH><TH align=right>Mintages</TH></TR><TR><TD>1986</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>5,393,005</TD></TR><TR><TD>1987</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>11,442,335</TD></TR><TR><TD>1988</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>5,004,646</TD></TR><TR><TD>1989</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>5,203,327</TD></TR><TR><TD>1990</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>5,840,210</TD></TR><TR><TD>1991</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>7,191,066</TD></TR><TR><TD>1992</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>5,540,068</TD></TR><TR><TD>1993</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>6,763,762</TD></TR><TR><TD>1994</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>4,227,319</TD></TR><TR><TD>1995</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>4,672,051</TD></TR><TR><TD>1996</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>3,603,386</TD></TR><TR><TD>1997</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>4,295,004</TD></TR><TR><TD>1998</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>4,847,549</TD></TR><TR><TD>1999</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>7,408,640</TD></TR><TR><TD>2000</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>9,239,132</TD></TR><TR><TD>2001</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>9,001,711</TD></TR><TR><TD>2002</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>10,539,026</TD></TR><TR><TD>2003</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>8,495,008</TD></TR><TR><TD>2004</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>8,882,754</TD></TR><TR><TD>2005</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>8,891,025</TD></TR><TR><TD>2006</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>10,676,522</TD></TR><TR><TD>2007</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>9,028,036</TD></TR><TR><TD>2008</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>20,583,000</TD></TR><TR><TD>2009</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>30,459,000</TD></TR><TR><TD>Total</TD><TD align=right></TD><TD align=right>207,227,482</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
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    Default Re: The Dates do matter on bullion ASE coins?

    I have 2 sets from dates 1986 thru 2001 and a few newer ones sprinkled in. Aside from '1996' all the other dates are about equal in value unless we're talking about 'PROOF' coins.

    Now, with that said, bullion is bullion and not numismatic. SAE's are actually coins (legal tender + reeded edge) so technically it's not bullion. If you want to get into real scarcity, rarity, and dates then jump into Morgan Dollars. Otherwise it's just fine Silver anyway you slice it.
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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    The new book Modern Commemorative Coins makes a pretty convincing case in its chapter on silver eagles that they are essentially the new Morgan Dollar. According to the author the surviving population of Morgans is some 380 million. The silver eagle if it keeps up current production will be there in a few years. Morgans have had over 100 years to mature while eagles are still in their beginning phase. The point being if you could go back in time 100 years, which morgans would you want for your collection, and apply that to what you know about eagles now. The 2006-2008 'W' mintmark are to the eagles as the CC's are to the morgans. The chart posted above does not take into account the W eagles.

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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Quote Originally Posted by hernancortes View Post
    The new book Modern Commemorative Coins makes a pretty convincing case in its chapter on silver eagles that they are essentially the new Morgan Dollar. According to the author the surviving population of Morgans is some 380 million. The silver eagle if it keeps up current production will be there in a few years. Morgans have had over 100 years to mature while eagles are still in their beginning phase. The point being if you could go back in time 100 years, which morgans would you want for your collection, and apply that to what you know about eagles now. The 2006-2008 'W' mintmark are to the eagles as the CC's are to the morgans. The chart posted above does not take into account the W eagles.
    Well, not to 'pee' on anyone's parade........but who has a 'lifetime' to wait for values of SAE's to reach up there with Morgans in MS+ condition ? There are still many deals to be had amongst the Morgan population along with room to go up. For example, I set aside a special Morgan Dollar for each of my children (100+ years older than they) so by the time they come of age they won't need to 'wait' for the value to rise, it's baked in.

    I'm not sure why anyone wastes their time chasing 'modern' collectibles when the bigger values can be had in true antiques.
    JMHO,

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    Default Re: The Dates do matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Quote Originally Posted by AgShaman View Post
    Sell me all your 1996 ASE's....then i will give you some facts.

    Curiosity will not kill this Cat!
    I'm sure he can get the facts from someone else and he'll be happier.

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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Argent Dragon View Post
    Well, not to 'pee' on anyone's parade........but who has a 'lifetime' to wait for values of SAE's to reach up there with Morgans in MS+ condition ? There are still many deals to be had amongst the Morgan population along with room to go up. For example, I set aside a special Morgan Dollar for each of my children (100+ years older than they) so by the time they come of age they won't need to 'wait' for the value to rise, it's baked in.

    I'm not sure why anyone wastes their time chasing 'modern' collectibles when the bigger values can be had in true antiques.
    JMHO,


    ~AD~
    Careful Dude, some of those SAE purists are really touchy!

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    Default Re: Lighten Up Francis...(Green Light)

    Yeah....coming from someone that has to ask someone why they would want to sell 100 ounce bricks of silver nowadays...and then later goes back and deletes their own posts....yeah, I think I'll also pass on your opinions from now on, since it's clear you don't have any good ones...or a sense of humor for that matter.

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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Argent Dragon View Post
    Well, not to 'pee' on anyone's parade........but who has a 'lifetime' to wait for values of SAE's to reach up there with Morgans in MS+ condition ? There are still many deals to be had amongst the Morgan population along with room to go up. For example, I set aside a special Morgan Dollar for each of my children (100+ years older than they) so by the time they come of age they won't need to 'wait' for the value to rise, it's baked in.

    I'm not sure why anyone wastes their time chasing 'modern' collectibles when the bigger values can be had in true antiques.
    JMHO,

    ~AD~
    The older coin collectors are dying off and their collecting habits will tend to die off w/ them. There arent too many values in the morgans or peace dollars. I just dont see too many classic dollars tripling from here, compared to some the W-eagles, which seem a sure triple at least, in the next few years.

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    Default Re: Lighten Up Francis...(Green Light)

    Quote Originally Posted by AgShaman View Post
    Yeah....coming from someone that has to ask someone why they would want to sell 100 ounce bricks of silver nowadays...and then later goes back and deletes their own posts....yeah, I think I'll also pass on your opinions from now on, since it's clear you don't have any good ones...or a sense of humor for that matter.

    Curiosity will not kill this Cat!
    Why exactly would you sell your silver today?

    Are you afraid?
    Are your hands growing weak?

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    Default Re: Lighten Up Francis...(Green Light)

    My hands are strong...I'm afraid of nothing...and you're clearly a fool in need of education if you've never pondered the idea that people can be overweight larger bullion these days with a large portion of Americana using their mortgages as an ATM then becoming cash strapped and clueless as you are....simply giving a go with dropping one off at spot to a private local buyer vs. boxing it up and sending it off to a mint/dealer does have a little upside....anymore dumb questions Francis?

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    Default Re: Lighten Up Francis...(Green Light)

    Quote Originally Posted by AgShaman View Post
    My hands are strong...I'm afraid of nothing...and you're clearly a fool in need of education if you've never pondered the idea that people can be overweight larger bullion these days with a large portion of Americana using their mortgages as an ATM then becoming cash strapped and clueless as you are....simply giving a go with dropping one off at spot to a private local buyer vs. boxing it up and sending it off to a mint/dealer does have a little upside....anymore dumb questions Francis?

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    Default Re: Lighten Up Francis...(Green Light)

    My hands are strong...I'm afraid of nothing...and you're clearly a fool in need of education if you've never pondered the idea that people can be overweight larger bullion these days with a large portion of Americana using their mortgages as an ATM then becoming cash strapped and perhaps as clueless as you are....simply giving a go with dropping one off at spot to a private local buyer vs. boxing it up and sending it off to a mint/dealer does have a little upside....anymore dumb questions Francis?

    I'll say it twice...you seem a little slow

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    Default Re: Lighten Up Francis...(Green Light)

    If I was collecting moderns in 1995 I would like to think I would've anticipated what would happen to the price of the '95-W Proof silver eagle.
    It was available for $999 from the mint as part of 5-coin set, along with 4 proof gold eagles, 1.85 oz. of gold. The mint also offered the 4-coin gold eagle set for $999, which explains why relatively few of the 4-coin sets were sold. Seems a no-brainer to get the free PR a.s.e.
    More so, considering the mint placed an up-front mintage limit on the 5-coin set of 35,000. This meant you knew you where getting a PR a.s.e. that was at least 10 times scarcer than any other PR ase up to that point. In the end they only sold about 30,000 of the sets and the price of the 95-w skyrocketed.
    Point is, in a popular series that is collected by date and mintmark, it is very easy to predict what will happen to coins like that.

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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Quote Originally Posted by hernancortes View Post
    The older coin collectors are dying off and their collecting habits will tend to die off w/ them. There arent too many values in the morgans or peace dollars. I just dont see too many classic dollars tripling from here, compared to some the W-eagles, which seem a sure triple at least, in the next few years.
    Don Hernan, do you have any mintage amounts on the W-Eagles?

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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Proof Silver Eagle Mintages

    Proof versions of the American Silver Eagle have been issued each year since the series began in 1986. From 1986 to 1992, the coins carried the "S" mint mark to designate mintage at the San Francisco Mint. From 1993-2000, the coins carried the "P" mint mark for the Philadelphia Mint. From 2001 to present, the coins carried the "W" mint mark to designate mintage at the West Point Mint.

    In 1995, a special coin was issued with the "W" mint mark as part of the 10th Anniversary Gold Eagle Set. This coin had an extremely low mintage and is considered the key date coin of the Silver Eagles.

    The table below shows the mintage figures for Proof Silver Eagles from 1986 to 2008. Coins were not issued for the year 2009 and the status of the offering for the future remains uncertain.

    <TABLE class=wikitable style="WIDTH: 270px; HEIGHT: 473px"><TBODY><TR><TH style="TEXT-ALIGN: left">Year</TH><TH style="TEXT-ALIGN: right">Proof</TH></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1986-S</TD><TD align=right>1,446,778</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1987-S</TD><TD align=right>904,732</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1988-S</TD><TD align=right>557,370</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1989-S</TD><TD align=right>617,694</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1990-S</TD><TD align=right>695,510</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1991-S</TD><TD align=right>511,925</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1992-S</TD><TD align=right>498,654</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1993-P</TD><TD align=right>405,913</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1994-P</TD><TD align=right>372,168</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1995-P</TD><TD align=right>438,511
    </TD></TR><TR><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">1995-W
    </TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; TEXT-ALIGN: right">30,125
    </TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1996-P</TD><TD align=right>500,000
    </TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1997-P</TD><TD align=right>435,368</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1998-P</TD><TD align=right>450,000</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">1999-P</TD><TD align=right>549,796</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">2000-P</TD><TD align=right>600,000</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">2001-W</TD><TD align=right>746,398</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">2002-W</TD><TD align=right>647,342</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">2003-W</TD><TD align=right>747,831</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">2004-W</TD><TD align=right>801,602</TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">2005-W</TD><TD align=right>816,663
    </TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">2006-W
    </TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; TEXT-ALIGN: right">1,092,477
    </TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">2007-W
    </TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; TEXT-ALIGN: right">821,759
    </TD></TR><TR><TD style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; VERTICAL-ALIGN: top">2008-W
    </TD><TD style="VERTICAL-ALIGN: top; TEXT-ALIGN: right">700,797
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    http://silvereaglecoins.net/Proof-Mintages
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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Based on your mintage figures, I find it odd that APMEX sells the 2006-W for $ 70 each, the 2007-W goes for only $ 24-25 (maybe a good deal there?) and the 2008-W is out of stock usually, but I've seen it around $ 40. It also calls the 2006-W the "inaugural issue" and does not sell any W's before 2006. So where are the 2001-05-W's?

    Also, does it matter if the W proof coin is of the "frosty" variety or the shiny mirrorlike kind?

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    Smile Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    The one to have is the 1995-W, check the chart ~ only 30k minted !
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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Quote Originally Posted by AZ Ag View Post
    Don Hernan, do you have any mintage amounts on the W-Eagles?
    According to "the book" they are as follows:
    2006-w = 466,573
    2007-w = 690,891
    2008-w = 535,000 (incl. 47,000 '08-reverse-of -'07 variety)

    note these are for the uncirculated versions, not proofs

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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    The '06 is the inaugural issue of the unc. -W's. They are identical in appearance to the bullion ase's save for the w mintmark.
    I think the frosty kind of PR you're reffering to is the reverse-proof which was minted in 2006 only and has a mintage of 248, 875.

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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Quote Originally Posted by hernancortes View Post
    The older coin collectors are dying off and their collecting habits will tend to die off w/ them. There arent too many values in the morgans or peace dollars. I just dont see too many classic dollars tripling from here, compared to some the W-eagles, which seem a sure triple at least, in the next few years.
    Hernan, you're a visionary and I applaud your efforts in trying to find 'value' in a modern coin most likely to appreciate. It's truly an art mixed and with good timing (some might call it luck) will reap huge benefits along down the line.

    However, I think it's premature and inaccurate to compare a 'W' Eagle with a 'CC' Dollar. Several factors add up to CC Dollars to explain their dramatic price appreciation and it's not just old-timers buyin' them, it's collectors who appreciate Americana, History of the Wild West, and like to hold a 100+ year old shiny Cartwheel in their hand just to marvel at the detail (which the SAE's don't have, they simply ripped off the Walking liberty halves......successful yes, but not original).

    #1 - Carson City Dollars are rare as in low mintages with many being melted in the 1918-1921 period.
    #2 - Carson City is part of the Wild West, actual silver mined in the Comstock Lode (largest claim in America for silver).
    #3 - Carson City lore as it's been reported the James gang robbed many a postal train car hauling bags of Carson City dollars.
    #4 - CC's are the only mintmark with 2-letters and most likely will remain that way for generations.

    Lastly, if you just look at a DMPL (Deep Mirror Proof-Like) MS-65 Carson City Dollar, it's one of the most beautiful coins ever struck and puts ANY Silver American Eagle to shame. Carsons are still vastly popular and will continue to appreciate. If you don't believe me, do some market research ~ visit a local coin show in your area (to all reading this) and learn a few things.

    ~AD~
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”-Thomas Jefferson


    "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." - Voltaire

    "When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." - Gen Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson

  28. Post #24

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    Silver Member hernancortes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    All true what you said about the CC, but the problem is the most common CC is better than $200 --- that's in lower mint state, of which are plenty.
    For the time being there are plenty of '07-W's for $3-$4 over what you'd spend for a common date ASE. The initial outlay is minimal and the downside risk is practically zero while the potential upside is large. That's the condition in numismatics that everyone is looking for. The '08-w's have been off sale from the mint for a year and a half and are only just starting to move up the greysheet as their ready availability decreases. As the supply of '07-w's vanishes from the wholesalers they are next to follow. If the mint strikes 2010-w' unc. they may have the greaetest potential of all.

  29. Post #25

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    Big Lizard Moderator Argent Dragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Quote Originally Posted by hernancortes View Post
    All true what you said about the CC, but the problem is the most common CC is better than $200 --- that's in lower mint state, of which are plenty.
    There are plenty of common CC's in lower grades to be had below the $200 mark and closer to the $100 mark with a couple of dates such as the 1878-CC and 1890-CC fetching only $70-$80 each in 'G' and 'VG' condition. However, it's best advised not to put too much stock into the lower grades since they don't appreciate as well based on prior low performance.

    My favorite is the 'ungraded' GSA boxed CC's which in 1883 & 1884 can still be picked up just under the $200 mark with some diligent searching. Pricey, but it's a piece of history under Nixon's administration that will never happen again (and yes, I have one of each of these).

    For the time being there are plenty of '07-W's for $3-$4 over what you'd spend for a common date ASE.
    Very good points being raised and since I do not currently have any 'W's in my collection, you've convinced me to pick up a few. The low downside 'risk' is a very attractive incentive to 'stock' up on these while they're affordable.
    “The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first.”-Thomas Jefferson


    "It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong." - Voltaire

    "When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." - Gen Thomas 'Stonewall' Jackson

  30. Post #26

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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Argent Dragon View Post
    Hernan, you're a visionary and I applaud your efforts in trying to find 'value' in a modern coin most likely to appreciate. It's truly an art mixed and with good timing (some might call it luck) will reap huge benefits along down the line.

    However, I think it's premature and inaccurate to compare a 'W' Eagle with a 'CC' Dollar. Several factors add up to CC Dollars to explain their dramatic price appreciation and it's not just old-timers buyin' them, it's collectors who appreciate Americana, History of the Wild West, and like to hold a 100+ year old shiny Cartwheel in their hand just to marvel at the detail (which the SAE's don't have, they simply ripped off the Walking liberty halves......successful yes, but not original).

    #1 - Carson City Dollars are rare as in low mintages with many being melted in the 1918-1921 period.
    #2 - Carson City is part of the Wild West, actual silver mined in the Comstock Lode (largest claim in America for silver).
    #3 - Carson City lore as it's been reported the James gang robbed many a postal train car hauling bags of Carson City dollars.
    #4 - CC's are the only mintmark with 2-letters and most likely will remain that way for generations.

    Lastly, if you just look at a DMPL (Deep Mirror Proof-Like) MS-65 Carson City Dollar, it's one of the most beautiful coins ever struck and puts ANY Silver American Eagle to shame. Carsons are still vastly popular and will continue to appreciate. If you don't believe me, do some market research ~ visit a local coin show in your area (to all reading this) and learn a few things.

    ~AD~
    Right On with the CC's Scaly Dude, they are very expensive here in nojobistan so the last time I was in Fort Collins CO I finally got my 1889 cartwheel for right around $190.
    I had to have one for the historical reasons you mentioned, heck this coin could have been in a hevily armed poker game in some wild west boomtown! Click image for larger version. 

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    No modern SAE will ever have that pedigree.

  31. Post #27

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    Found a silver nugget Prospector AZ Ag's Avatar
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    Default Re: Does the date matter on bullion ASE coins?

    To Argent Dragon and to HernanCortes:

    I don't see the Thanks button in this new GIM, so thanks to both of you. You have given some very good information to ponder.

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