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America the Beautiful 5 oz Silver Bullion Coins

Discussion in 'PM's - Coins - Numis - Base Metals' started by JayDubya, Jun 20, 2010.



  1. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    45,000 bullion
    17,585 'P' as of this week



    Yes, this new site is a royal pain in the arse.
     
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  2. badhop55

    badhop55 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    If the rise in mintages is the result if increased interest in the series then I'm all for it.

    Looking back to the circus of 2010 it's hard to believe we're entering year 7 of the program.
     
  3. Foxwoods Man

    Foxwoods Man Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Interest in the P's is steady to lower most likely because of the price....interest in the bullion is, well, related to lower bullion prices so more sold

    Zero need to increase the P mintage....bullion always sells out quickly so an increase kinda makes sense BUT not by 300%
     
  4. Dude

    Dude Midas Member Midas Member

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    Run that German stamping machine to death. Drop those premiums.
     
  5. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    As of today, the Shawnee mintage is at 75,000. I guess that is the maximum mintage for this year's coins.

    The TR coin will be released sometime later this year. My plan is now to watch the dealers' premiums too see whether they go down compared to last year's.

    If premiums go down to reasonable levels (at maybe $3 over spot), I might still consider buying a roll of the TR coins.
     
  6. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Maximim mintage for the 2016 ATB is currently set at 150,000 total for each issue, with a maximum number of 30,000 of those for the 'P' collectors version. This means that we could see the Shawnee bullion mintage move up from here. I predict that the higher mintage figures will lower premiums as the year goes forward.
     
  7. Foxwoods Man

    Foxwoods Man Silver Member Silver Miner

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    The 75k mintage was as of 5 days ago....we'll see what the next number is
     
  8. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Now 97,000. I'm surprised to see pucks, or at least this one, selling so well all the sudden. I haven't given them a thought since the 2010 fiasco. I and my investment buddy are still buried in tons of those.
     
  9. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Saratoga might be the last chance to get sub-50k mintages for this series, at issue prices.

    The price for a Saratoga roll at MCM has only moved up slightly, due to higher spot price, but the premium is still reasonable.

    I am tempted to buy the Saratoga instead of waiting for the TR to be issued, even though I already have 5.
     
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  10. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Never mind MCM...Provident even has a lower price for the Saratoga now.

    The main drawback of buying from Provident is the inferior housing for the coins, if you buy less than 10 (they use plastic sleeves instead of capsules). I can compensate for this by putting the sleeves in ziploc bags (or just buy 10 of them and get a tube).

    Looking back at my purchases of this coin from APMEX, when silver was 14% lower than today, it's hard to believe that Provident's price today is nearly the same now as APMEX's price was then.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2016
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  11. Mr Paradise

    Mr Paradise Midas Member Midas Member

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    The ultra low mintage Sand Dunes puck is one of the cheapest at Provident [scratches head] ...it's about $9 over spot but still one of the cheapest.
     
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  12. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I checked a few minutes ago and it looks like it is $12 over spot, which is still low among the 2014 coins. Maybe someone at Provident saw your post and raised the price. I was lucky to pick one up last year from APMEX at $9 over spot.

    I fear that the anticipated mintage increase for the 2016 coins will weaken their prospects to rise significantly in value, but it may also help the premiums of the coins from 2012 to 2015, by bringing in more collectors.

    Maybe later this year I will buy just one Theodore Roosevelt coin, for the sake of having one. But I think right now is the time to consider snapping up coins from years 2013 to 2015 before the premiums climb much higher.
     
  13. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Just ordered two more Saratogas from Provident, with the sale (along with 4 Air-Tites for my ATBs from Provident).

    I have a feeling that I will be shifting away from the ATBs at this point...
     
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  14. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Forgot to mention that I also ordered two 2016 Kookaburras along with the Saratogas. These two will join the one lone 2013 Kookaburra in my collection.

    I am looking at the Australian Kookaburra series as my "silver parachute", in case the rest of the ATB series features only high-mintage coins, like the Shawnee that is being issued now.
     
  15. Foxwoods Man

    Foxwoods Man Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I am into the 10 ounce Kooks....sometimes cheaper than two ATB pucks and look cool
     
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  16. Dude

    Dude Midas Member Midas Member

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    Bought 2 rolls of the Saratogas for a little extra premium at Provident. That's a heck of a lot of Shawnees.
     
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  17. Mr Paradise

    Mr Paradise Midas Member Midas Member

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    The Gringott (Kentucky) puck is for sale pre order at the Mex for those interested.
     
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  18. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Just got two of the Gringott pucks [bullion] in my grubby hands. Has a deerskin clad frontiersman with a rifle on it. Best puck yet. I might pick up a few more for presents.
    Looking forward to getting the mint one.
     
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  19. Dude

    Dude Midas Member Midas Member

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    It has been pleasant stacking these thing for 90 something dollars and catching a few graded ones on ebay for cheap. Waaaahhh over $100. You can never satisfy a stacker. If it goes up you are pissed you have to pay more. If it remains static or drops, you complain manipulation and your stack should be worth way more.
     
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  20. SongSungAU

    SongSungAU Midas Member Midas Member

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    I received my Cumberland puck and I like it better than I thought I would. The Theodore Roosevelt is still my favorite but since this Cumberland puck turned out better than I thought, I can't wait to see what the Roosevelt one will be like. Should be very nice. I'm hoping anyway.
     
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  21. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I agree that the TR design looks really nice.

    It may not become a winner based on mintage, but it definitely can become one based on popularity.
     
  22. Silvertoothtiger

    Silvertoothtiger Seeker Seeker

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    No it's a case of if it goes up we are happy, if it goes down we are even more happy because we can stack more
     
  23. Dude

    Dude Midas Member Midas Member

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    Too happy and your wife thinks you're cheating on her.
     
  24. howellzin

    howellzin Silver Member Silver Miner

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    The most recent BU mintage numbers from the US Mint . . .

    ATB BU mintages 1608.jpg
     
  25. SongSungAU

    SongSungAU Midas Member Midas Member

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    Not yet in stock but several sites are accepting orders now....

    TRpuck.jpg
     
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  26. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I have not abandoned these coins yet!

    Although buying gold coins this year has used up a lot of my dry powder, I can still spare some for one or two TR coins.
     
  27. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    On the other hand, it may be a wise move to save some dry powder for a National Park Service gold coin. The uncirc version is on track to break the low mintage record, as I mentioned in another thread.

    There is a saying that applies to any kind of investing, which goes "don't let emotions dictate your actions." Don't get me wrong, I like the ATBs and am proud to have purchased many of them.

    But my own objective analysis says that the uncirc gold NPS coin is a better use of my dry powder than the same amount of money put toward ATB coins.

    It seems fitting that both the TR 5-oz coins and the NPS gold coin feature portraits of Theodore Roosevelt on the coins. Perhaps for this reason I won't regret my decision to prefer the gold NPS coin over the TR 5-oz coins...
     
  28. Mr Paradise

    Mr Paradise Midas Member Midas Member

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    You're probably correct on the TR AU being the better investment. The TR puck will probably tally out with a 80,000+ mintage. I'll grab one but its not in my investment crosshairs.
     
  29. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    With the price drop in silver over the past week, I am now inclined to buy one TR puck, keeping up with my previous commitment (while still being able to catch the pre-sale price of the TR puck). Too bad the price drop does not help the TR -P puck...

    Still, my numismatic funds look like they will be allocated to the NPS gold unc, probably taking up next year's allocation of numismatic funds (or what remains of it...I already exceeded this year's funds by buying other $5 gold coins).

    In order to keep up this cycle, I will definitely need to switch from buying coins to other activities like grading and selling coins...
     
  30. Foxwoods Man

    Foxwoods Man Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Just ordered a tube of 10 Harper's Ferry bullion pucks....looks like, in addition to potential spot price appreciation, it will be the lowest mintage out of the last eight issues
     
  31. Dude

    Dude Midas Member Midas Member

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    Just paid paypal for the money lent 6 months ago for free interest on ebay when silver was somewhat cheaper, so I've got the freebee available again. What did you pay for the roll? This is not a bad call.
     
  32. Dude

    Dude Midas Member Midas Member

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    Best deal I see is 1100 at Provident.
     
  33. Foxwoods Man

    Foxwoods Man Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Exactly...$1090 shipped
     
  34. shallow_explorer

    shallow_explorer Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Gainesville has them for $1060 for 10 shipped.
     
  35. Foxwoods Man

    Foxwoods Man Silver Member Silver Miner

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    They (Harper's Ferry) were out of stock when I looked....
     
  36. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    For the record, I did end up buying one pre-ordered TR coin last Sunday, but I will be waiting another week or two to get the coin.

    Speaking of grading coins, I am now looking through my ATB 5-oz collection for examples for submission to NGC. With the help of an expert numismatist, I will be looking through my ATBs for candidates to send in for grading, along with the gold coins I will be buying from the Mint (probably 3, leaving 2 ATBs to be chosen to round out the set of 5).

    I will probably focus on grading the bullion coins, as the P coins look pretty good already in OGP. These bullion coins will be chosen from 1 Denali, 2 El Yunque, and 3 Chaco Culture. Most of these have bag marks, though, so I don't expect them to grade 70 at NGC. The numismatist can probably give me some good input in this regard. I might also consider grading my Denali P, as the condition looks rather good.
     
  37. Foxwoods Man

    Foxwoods Man Silver Member Silver Miner

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    A few comments on the pucksters....
    If they "have bag marks" I wouldn't spend the money to get them graded. It costs just under $50/puck PLUS handling & shipping & insurance both ways. Not worth a 68-69 grade
    If you are reasonably confident they will grade a perfect 70 then go for it.
    IF you like the OGP of the P's then just buy the 5 oz OGP box from the Mint (or Ebay). They do sell a similar box for the bullion pucks.
    I have had pucks graded at both NGC and PCGS and definitely prefer this PCGS slab. Looks better and not the size of the NGC dinner plate . (I do use NGC for the grading of all my other coins though .
    There is no 5 coin minimum for the pucks but they do have to be on their own submission form (oversized holder) (NGC)
    Just my thoughts
     
  38. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

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    In that case, I probably won't be submitting my ATB pucks for grading...information is sometimes valuable!

    The alternative plan is to keep my other raw coins until their number naturally reaches the 5-coin minimum for the modern grading tier that I want to use (or just make sure that I have 5 coins to begin with, but this can be expensive...).
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2016
  39. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The bullion pucks don't grade 70 at either service. Best you can do is 69, with or without the PL or DPL designation. The 'P' pucks from the mint can go 70 on both services.
     
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  40. Foxwoods Man

    Foxwoods Man Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I never realized that...thanks. Makes sense since they are just plunked into tubes....
     
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