1. Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
    Dismiss Notice
  2. There are no markets
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Week of 6/24/2017 Closing prices & Chg Over Last Wk---- Gold $1256.40 Silver $16.64 Oil $43.01 USD $96.94
  4. "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"
    Dismiss Notice

Any real reasons to not buy Palladium?

Discussion in 'Gold Silver (All things Metal)' started by Gstack, May 25, 2017.



  1. Gstack

    Gstack New Member Seeker

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    18
    It's compact like Gold is, but not as pricey. It's sold the same way and is supposedly bought back the same way as well. However, it isn't nearly as well known. But the companies online that we can buy it from know it very well, so isn't that all that matters? So why don't people see it the same way as gold or silver? It goes up and down in price the same way and is sold in the same forms.

    Right now, it has been dropping while the others have been rising. If a person wants to buy when something is low and sell when it is high, it would seem that now is a good time to buy. But is it a good thing to buy?
     
    OverOver likes this.
  2. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,199
    Likes Received:
    1,083
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'm not up to the minute on palladium but usually the spreads are worse than any other PM
     
    oldgaranddad likes this.
  3. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    3,659
    Likes Received:
    5,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Since nearly all mined palladium is allocated to industrial use, it's treated differently by the market.

    Contrast that with gold where nearly 100% of mined gold is used as an investment metal. Silver lies somewhere between these two extremes.
     
    searcher and Zed like this.
  4. nowon

    nowon Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    cars, cars, cars
     
  5. Gstack

    Gstack New Member Seeker

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Actually, Provident is selling one oz. bars for $19 over spot and the buy back price is $10 under spot. Not bad compared to Gold Eagles at $63 over spot for random dates, and buy back prices at $15 over spot.
     
    Scorpio likes this.
  6. Gstack

    Gstack New Member Seeker

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    18
    But wouldn't this make palladium more valuable due to it actually being put to a practical use?
     
  7. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    3,659
    Likes Received:
    5,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That would depend on supply and demand. If you think the auto sector is going to go gangbusters and will need lots of the stuff in the near future then it may be a buy...assuming there's no huge supply glut.

    I don't know as I don't really keep track of palladium mining/supplies, but I think the auto sector is crap and getting crappier.
     
  8. Gstack

    Gstack New Member Seeker

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    36
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Maybe the auto industry wouldn't go gangbusters, but other things can happen to make the price of Palladium go up. Supplies could get cut off which would affect the price greatly since palladium isn't stockpiled. Stricter emissions regulations could increase the demand for it.
     
  9. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    3,659
    Likes Received:
    5,508
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Could happen, sure.

    For myself, as long as the GSR is over 50ish I'm not overthinking things and just stacking moar of the obvious value play in the PM markets.

    Also from the value investor standpoint palladium is down a few hundred from its ATH, but it's not nearly as beaten down as silver in percentage terms.
     
    Mujahideen likes this.
  10. latemetal

    latemetal Platinum Bling Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    4,661
    Likes Received:
    2,474
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I like the metals that I can sell easily, small gold and silver can be sold at local stores and flea markets with little or no hassle...
     
    edsl48, Mujahideen and arminius like this.
  11. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok I'd rather be Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    5,488
    Likes Received:
    4,331
    Trophy Points:
    113
    1. Palladium is not a monetary metal.
    2. It is not kept as a reserve by any financial authority.
    You may buy palladium if you wish, it will remain valuable as long as there are industrial uses for it.

    2c,
    R.
     
    Mujahideen likes this.
  12. Rusty Shackelford

    Rusty Shackelford Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    5,916
    Likes Received:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    wastewater
    Location:
    Northern most Southern State
    I would dabble in Pd with a small stack and gamble on a mini-rhodium rise.
     
    OverOver likes this.
  13. OverOver

    OverOver Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    525
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I have three oz of physical but my favorite thing to do with PD is the Kitco Pool. My
    latest big time Little Towner move was sell a oz in April for $804 that I bought in Jan
    for $697. In 10 years I've made about $2000, so not hitting any homeruns but getting
    hits!
     
    searcher and Weatherman like this.
  14. Rusty Shackelford

    Rusty Shackelford Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    5,916
    Likes Received:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    wastewater
    Location:
    Northern most Southern State
    Hits typically win games.
     
    OverOver likes this.
  15. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,635
    Likes Received:
    3,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    commercial/ industrial-construction/engineering/ma
    Location:
    mid-usa
    I own Palladium...and Platinum.......Pl and PD are pretty much interchangeable as industrial catalysts and you will see PL and PD generally running inversely to each other manufactures will swap metals when the prices invert to the point of profitability....point is.....Platinum has been falling......Palladium has been rising relative to each other.....in my opinion while Palladium has more room to rise its reaching the end of its cycle and i am starting to look to exit....conversely Platinum is reaching the end of its falling cycle and i am looking to add more ......the biggest negative to palladium is lack of a EASY ready market when its time to sell as local coin shops are not good buyers..

    If you looking to get in .....im looking to reduce holdings be happy to sell you some....or swap for silver or Pt
     
    D-FENZ, Mr Paradise and OverOver like this.
  16. Bottom Feeder

    Bottom Feeder Hypophthalmichthys molitrix Gold Chaser Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,740
    Likes Received:
    2,219
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle
    I've passed it up many times. Just seems wrong to make coins and nice bars outa the stuff. Anyhow...

    Most palladium is used for catalytic converters but is also a key component of fuel cells. In the closing years of the last century the Russian supply of palladium to the global market was repeatedly delayed and disrupted. The ensuing market panic drove the price to an all-time high of $1100 per troy ounce in January 2001. The Ford Motor Company, fearing a palladium shortage, stockpiled the metal. When prices fell in early 2001, Ford lost nearly $1 billion.

    A high of $1100. No wheres close to rhodium's high, though.

    BF
     
    ttazzman likes this.
  17. Rusty Shackelford

    Rusty Shackelford Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    5,916
    Likes Received:
    3,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    wastewater
    Location:
    Northern most Southern State
    Does Ford still have the metal? If so, not a total loss
     
  18. GOLDBRIX

    GOLDBRIX God,Donald Trump,most in GIM2 I Trust. OTHERS-meh Site Supporter Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    5,502
    Likes Received:
    5,229
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Hey, At least the Buy Back IS OVER SPOT. What if the Internet Market Place goes tits -up and all you got are Pawn Shops and LCS ?
    You'll be lucky to get SPOT.
    Don't say it couldn't happen there is HISTORY in the PM market.
     
  19. Bottom Feeder

    Bottom Feeder Hypophthalmichthys molitrix Gold Chaser Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,740
    Likes Received:
    2,219
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle
    I would have to say two things:
    1. If you don't hold it you don't own it
    2. It will never go to zero

    BF
     
  20. OverOver

    OverOver Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    525
    Trophy Points:
    93
    So what's the verdict? Buy or no buy?
     
  21. latemetal

    latemetal Platinum Bling Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    4,661
    Likes Received:
    2,474
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, unless you're a big Player, the premiums will kill the deal.
     
  22. Bottom Feeder

    Bottom Feeder Hypophthalmichthys molitrix Gold Chaser Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,740
    Likes Received:
    2,219
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Seattle
    in PMs - diversity is good.
    But I don't have any.
    So, I guess, my input would be "no". YMMV

    BF
     
  23. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,635
    Likes Received:
    3,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    commercial/ industrial-construction/engineering/ma
    Location:
    mid-usa
    my current position is...."reduce holdings" ...so hold or sell......looking at a long term chart of pl we are nearing highs ...the time to buy was at 600 range imo....any upside from here is unprecidented

    here is a article that i think gives a good perspective on the current status of the metal

    http://www.mining.com/platinum-palladium-price-exploded-in-july/
     
  24. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    132,054
    Likes Received:
    38,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Is It Worth Investing in Palladium?


    -- Published: Friday, 21 July 2017


    Palladium is another element with great importance to the modern economy, but it’s often overshadowed by the other more famous and expensive precious metals. As the chart below shows, palladium has been generally cheaper than platinum – its more expensive substitute in industrial use and jewelry.

    Chart 1: The palladium to platinum ratio (red line, right axis), the price of palladium (yellow line, left axis, P.M. London Fix, weekly average), and the price of platinum (blue line, left axis, P.M. London Fix, weekly average).


    [​IMG]



    However, the palladium to platinum ratio has been approaching parity. Does that mean it is the appropriate moment to invest in palladium? Let’s deal with that question, examining the supply and demand dynamics of this chemical element with the symbol Pd and an atomic number of 46.


    Supply

    The annual mining production in 2016 amounted to only about 6.7 million ounces. It came mainly from Russia (41percent) and South Africa (38.1 percent). Meanwhile, recycling added about 2.5 million of ounces. It means that the total supply was 9.2 million ounces.

    The above-ground stocks of palladium vary from 7 million to 26 million ounces, which corresponds to from 1 up to 4 years of mining production. The existence of large stocks of palladium may explain why market deficits did not translate into higher prices.

    The total supply of palladium is projected by Johnson Matthey to rise 1 percent in 2017, as an 8.6 percent rise in recycling (due to a continued recovery in the number of vehicles being scrapped in North America) is likely to more than offset a 1.9 percent decline in primary supplies (due to lower sales from Norilsk Nickel’s inventory). Hence, the supply side of the palladium market would not be supportive for the price of the metal.

    Demand

    In 2016, total demand for palladium amounted to 9.4 million ounces. It was made up of three core segments: automotive (84.3 percent), industrial (20.6 percent), and jewelry (2 percent). As one can see, the shares do not add up to unity, as investment’s contribution was negative (investors liquidated 0.65 million ounces from their ETF holdings). Similarly to platinum, palladium is primarily an industrial metal with the dominant part of demand coming from automotive catalyst use.

    However, in contrast to platinum, demand for palladium in jewelry has almost disappeared (although palladium is an essential part of ‘white gold’), while investments have remained in negative territory. Instead, the share of automotive demand is much higher, so the palladium market is even more dependent on the situation in the automotive sector.

    Moreover, while platinum is mainly used in catalytic converters in diesel cars, palladium is adopted primarily in gasoline cars. This implies that platinum depends more on the European market, while palladium reigns in North American and Asian. And since the latter is cheaper, it displaces ‘little silver’ from the market.

    According to Johnson Matthey, global demand for palladium will rise in 2017 by 7.6 percent to 10.1 million of ounces, thanks to the 3.6 percent increase in automotive demand (the sales of gasoline cars is likely to increase, as well as palladium loadings), the 4.6 percent rise in industrial demand (palladium is mainly used in electrical, chemical and dental sectors), and the reduced outflows from the ETFs (given two years of heavy selling, ETF liquidation should slowdown). Thus, the demand side of the palladium market should support the price of the metal this year.

    Market Balance and Price Outlook

    Given only the tiny rise in the supply of palladium and more decisive jump in demand for that metal (caused by higher auto demand and less disinvestment), the market deficit should widen to about 0.8 million of ounces in 2017, as one can see in the chart below.

    Chart 2: Palladium demand (blue line, left axis, in thousands of ounces), palladium supply (yellow line, left axis, in thousands of ounces), and the net balance (green line, right axis, thousands of ounces) from 2002 to 2017 (the values for 2017 are projected).

    [​IMG]


    Therefore, the price of palladium should be supported in the near future. We know that the above-ground stocks of palladium are relatively plentiful (and may be greater than the market expects), but market deficits at such heights cannot last indefinitely – and when the market eventually tightens, prices will need to rise, although it may take a while to deplete stocks.

    Another bullish factor for palladium is the shift away from platinum toward more palladium in the automotive industry, although the price rally could undermine palladium’s competitiveness, especially since platinum is about twice as effective as palladium in catalytic converters (hence, given that platinum is trading with only a small premium over palladium, investors may turn to the former at some point in the future). The revival of global GDP growth bodes well for palladium prices, but if reflation falters, the outlook for palladium will deteriorate. And the rising share of electronic cars is another, although long-term, threat for the palladium market.

    Thank you.

    Arkadiusz Sieron

    Sunshine Profits‘ Gold News Monitor and Market Overview Editor

    http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1500645780.php
     
    Weatherman likes this.
  25. GOLDBRIX

    GOLDBRIX God,Donald Trump,most in GIM2 I Trust. OTHERS-meh Site Supporter Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    5,502
    Likes Received:
    5,229
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Looks too much like Silver for Gen. Pub. and Pawn Stores.
    If you buy it make sure you have a venue to sell it back.
     
    edsl48 and Weatherman like this.
  26. arminius

    arminius Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,798
    Likes Received:
    3,304
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    420 healer
    Location:
    right here right now
    Me too. The term for this is fungibility. How easy is it to recognize, and sell when needed.
     
    edsl48 and GOLDBRIX like this.
  27. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,531
    Likes Received:
    4,273
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Instant Gratification Land
    Depends on when you buy or sell. Bought in '09 and sold now, you'd probably cover the spread. I recall seeing a single bar back in '09 that came with a nearly 50% premium.
     
  28. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,635
    Likes Received:
    3,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    commercial/ industrial-construction/engineering/ma
    Location:
    mid-usa
    as mentoned above local markets are poor .....but big national pm shops...foundrys....ebay...etc moves the metal just fine......

    i keep some around just because.....always willing to buy ...sell...trade..it...if someone wants some
     
  29. Rollie Free

    Rollie Free Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,486
    Likes Received:
    3,751
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Palladium isn't gold or silver. The local pm store won't generally move it and Joe Public won't know what the hell you're talking about. But the pm houses will by it back no problem. It's investment grade stuff. Unlike silver you arent whittling away by buying one coin at a time. A few years back I bought at 300 and sold at 550 (lit the match too early but still good profit).
    I guess what I am looking at seems high market and I'd leave it alone.
    One thing I've learned is not to buy when you want it (pms have an other worldly allure) but buy when it makes sense. You have no way of controlling that. Just take advantage of opportunities and let the emotion pass.
    Probably not a great buy right now.
     
    D-FENZ and ttazzman like this.
  30. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    132,054
    Likes Received:
    38,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Has Platinum Lost Its Luster?
    SalivateMetal



    Published on Aug 3, 2017
     
  31. GOLDBRIX

    GOLDBRIX God,Donald Trump,most in GIM2 I Trust. OTHERS-meh Site Supporter Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    5,502
    Likes Received:
    5,229
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Most is mined and smelted in RUSSIA, RUSSIA, RUSSIA. :countdown:
     
  32. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,635
    Likes Received:
    3,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    commercial/ industrial-construction/engineering/ma
    Location:
    mid-usa
    Palladium seems to keep marching on.......been showing a lot of strength and resilience....anyone else holding? ...thoughts?
     
  33. edsl48

    edsl48 Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    1,398
    Trophy Points:
    113
    For me I buy metals for a medium of exchange if TSHF
    My actions are geared to buy as an insurance policy as opposed to speculative investing
    Paper gold, silver, platinum and whatever are good for speculation as they are easy to sell, don't have to be stored and are easily liquidated
    We all buy for different reasons but those like me buy for possible times of calamity and outside of gold and silver other metals dont make it in my humble estimation
     
    arminius likes this.
  34. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,635
    Likes Received:
    3,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    commercial/ industrial-construction/engineering/ma
    Location:
    mid-usa
    palladium ...kickin butt n takin names....very strong move today up 45$
     
  35. nowon

    nowon Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
  36. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    132,054
    Likes Received:
    38,242
    Trophy Points:
    113
    ttazzman likes this.
  37. OverOver

    OverOver Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    525
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I never got back into the Kitco Pool for Pd. BUT, I did buy some of the Sprott CEF. Under ticker SPPP and
    I'm up 95 bucks!!
     
    southfork and ttazzman like this.
  38. Rollie Free

    Rollie Free Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,486
    Likes Received:
    3,751
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nebraska
    I learned a valuable lesson a few years back about buying at relatively recent highs. Not going there again. The adage about buying it distressed, depressed, and unwanted are still true. Patience is a virtue.
     
    OverOver likes this.
  39. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,635
    Likes Received:
    3,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    commercial/ industrial-construction/engineering/ma
    Location:
    mid-usa
    :) the question is ....is it time to sell some 500 pl.....already did the patience thing
     
  40. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    4,635
    Likes Received:
    3,747
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    commercial/ industrial-construction/engineering/ma
    Location:
    mid-usa
    Very significant day today........Palladium just moved above the price of Platinum....
     
    GOLDBRIX likes this.

Share This Page