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Anybody ever bought/sold from Chaim Greenberg? May need legal help.

Discussion in 'Purchasing Precious Metals' started by chief, Dec 6, 2012.



  1. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    Alright, this may be a long post but I need some advice/help on how to handle this situation.

    In the September issue of Coin World magazine I see a full page ad for this coin/bullion dealer in New York. I called him because he has buy prices on the ad of a couple of things I was interested in selling. I called him and we spoke for a few minutes. I agreed to send him my coins and he had me on voice recorder to keep a record of what I was sending him and when I was sending it. He did notify me of being recorded and of course I was ok with that. I packed up the items to send to him. However, before I did that, I video recorded everything. In the video, I stated my name, address, phone number even showed the time I was getting ready to go to the post office to mail the items. Of course, I even recorded each coin I was shipping to him in detail. (It was kind of funny to be talking to myself while I held the video camera but I'm glad I did.)

    I shipped the package and he received the items. According to the post office it was delivered on Thursday, November 15, 2012. I called to confirm he did receive the items and he did confirm it.

    Here's where the problem begins. He still hasn't quoted me a price for my coins. We have spoken to each other 5 times and every time he is giving me some bulls**t excuse as to why he hasn't gotten to my appraisal yet. I'm finally fed up with this guy. I called him about an hour ago and told him just to ship me back my items and he, again gave me the run around and said he will be in touch. I called my lawyer and left a message for him to call me. Does anybody know how I go about getting my coins back? He has a website and says he's been doing business for 50 years. The man I believe is in his 70's. Does anybody know of any laws in New York as to how long someone can hold someone's property before having to return it. I'm waiting to see what my lawyer says but I will probably end up filing a police report too. If this guy Chaim Greenberg is on this forum, I'd love to hear your side of the story.
     
  2. hoarder

    hoarder Banned

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    With a name like Chaim Greenberg, why would you want to do business with him in the first place? :confused:
     
  3. TnAndy

    TnAndy retired guy Midas Member

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    How far is the drive ?
     
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  4. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    Too far. I'm in Missouri.
     
  5. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok I'd rather be Midas Member

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  6. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    Great. So what can I legally do?
     
  7. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    Talked to my lawyer. I have a couple of steps I need to do before I can contact the law enforcement. All is good.
     
  8. Solo

    Solo Midas Member Midas Member

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    I would call the Mr. Greenberg again and ask him to verify that the business mailing address is the same as it was last month. That's going to spook him so when he asks why politely tell him you simply needed to verify the address for your attorney who will be contacting him next week via certified mail. Your attorney is probably going to bill you a few hundred for writing and then sending the letter, but if you get the coins back consider it a lesson learned.

    BTW, I just googled the address listed on his website and it's residential address (row homes). Not that there aren't other dealers with million+ dollar inventories working from their home, but it seems like he's stretching the truth on the "About Us" page when he says "For 50 years our staff..."

    Good luck Chief!
     
    chief likes this.
  9. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    Thanks for the advice. Yeah, my lawyer is going to contact him tomorrow. Not too worried about being charged for lawyer fees. He's a family member and is partner in one of the biggest law firms in the Midwest.
     
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  10. ErrosionOfAccord

    ErrosionOfAccord #1 Global Warmer Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    I wouldn't tell him **** about certified letters or lawyers. You don't want him dodging certified letters and or subpoenas do you?
     
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  11. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    Thanks. I won't tell him about the certified letter but I did tell him I would get a lawyer if this matter isn't solved in the next couple of days. What else am I suppose to do!? The guys had 3 weeks to look over the coins I sent him. I only sent him 1-2009 UHR, 2-2011 25th Ann. ASE sets and 37-1ounce silver eagles. My local coin shop would take 5 minutes to look these over and give me a price. This guy is beating around the bush way too much. I'm patient, but not that patient!!
     
  12. ErrosionOfAccord

    ErrosionOfAccord #1 Global Warmer Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    My friend is going after a contractor because the foundation in his two year old house is failing. They have been trying to find the guy so they can serve him for a couple of months now.

    just saying
     
  13. TnAndy

    TnAndy retired guy Midas Member

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    Nah, not that far. Take a road trip, show up at his door.
     
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  14. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Call Guido at 1 800 knee cap & have him explain it to him in a way he is sure to understand.:cool1:
     
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  15. earplugs

    earplugs Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    and in new york?
     
  16. Solo

    Solo Midas Member Midas Member

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    Good point.

    Any news Chief?
     
  17. 97guns

    97guns Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    ...and yank that oxygen hose off his face
     
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  18. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    My lawyers sent him a certified letter that he received yesterday. It states he has until the end of the year to return my coins or legal action will be taken. I'll give an update when I know what's going on.

    Hey, someone wanna call this guy to see if he still answers his phone? Google his name and his website will come up. If you call him, PM me and let me know what this guy says.
     
  19. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    I thought about flying out there. I mean, a $400 plane ticket to retrieve my $5k in precious metals is worth it right?

    I was wondering, is there a courrier (sp?) service I could use that could pick this up for me and mail it back to me? Is there anything like that available?
     
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  20. Solo

    Solo Midas Member Midas Member

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    There probably is a courier service out there that would do it, but the problem is that if you involve a 3rd party and you are shorted goods on the return, or the coins were switched for lower grade examples, then you will have difficulty proving that Chaim scammed you as he will point to the 3rd party as the ones responsible. If he received a letter from a lawyer he will probably either return your loot asap or cut you an immediate check. At least I hope that is what will happen.

    If you do receive a box I would make sure you take a video of the unboxing. Make sure to clearly show the taped seal(s) on the box and then unbox it in the same unedited video.
     
    chief likes this.
  21. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    You mailed the goods to him, correct? That said, I would be making a claim for mail fraud. Nuff said?
     
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  22. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    ^^^Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I shipped the stuff to him correctly. I printed out the USPS electronic signature that shows he signed for it on November 15, 2012.

    My lawyer called me just this morning and told me if I don't have them by the end of the year, he has contacts at both the FBI and the United Postal Inspectors. This may take a while but I just want my money or the coins.
     
  23. Fatboy

    Fatboy Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Try to get a hold of Twisted Avitar from the old GIM1 and have his "girlfriend" swing by in a patrol car. That might get this guy's attention. There may be other trusted members that are close by that could help you too. Just some random thoughts....
     
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  24. Kingfisher

    Kingfisher Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Another danger in shipping stuff off to us old folks is that we can tip over at any time.

    Imagine an honest geezer who is on top of everything in his small business but not a fastidious record keeper whose shop is in apparent disarray Then imagine him going down for the count within a few hours after he signed for delivery of your coins. Then imagine his heirs and assigns trying to figure out what is what and whose is whose. That has to be a bit frightening.
     
  25. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    Since my coins have been received by him, I have talked to him a dozen times. The last time was last Thursday. Same old song and dance. Oh well. This guy will get what's coming to him. It's funny how karma works.
     
  26. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    Thanks. I actually talked to the 77th precinct. Which is closest to the business/residential address given on his website and they told me it's a civil matter that will have to be dealt with in court. Is that right? So, I can't file a police report? I would have thought the police could have done something.
     
  27. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    File a report with your local law enforcement. Attach that report to the report of MAIL FRAUD.
     
  28. Kingfisher

    Kingfisher Silver Member Silver Miner

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    The threat of Mail Fraud can be pretty powerful. We had a guy who went to jail for a few years because of it and he was just mailing reports.. Not many people are aware of its seriousness but I suspect your guy has heard the term before.
     
  29. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    How is it mail fraud?
     
  30. Kingfisher

    Kingfisher Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I think because the mail was used to get the stuff to him. Or was it?? I don't now if it covers couriers. I doubt it.

    It wouldn't hurt to talk to a Postal Inspector "hypothetically" for now.
     
  31. chief

    chief Seeker Seeker

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    UPDATE 12/21/2012!!!


    Here's an update of what has happened with my situation in the last couple of days.

    Yesterday I get a phone call from this guy first thing in the morning. I mean it was only 8am here central time which means it was 9am in NY. He calls and tells me he will have an offer for me at the end of the day.

    He calls back a few hours later. Apologizes for taking so long (health issues) I don't know if I believe him...don't really care. He offers me $1,000 less then what I could sell it for!! I was floored! I told him to ship my coins back to me. He then says he can't, he admittingly said he had already sold them! I was beyond livid!!! What the f***?! So now, this guy has sold property without my permission. What am I to do? I told him give me this price, he says we can meet half way. I told him I will be speaking with my lawyer. Then, his partner gets on the phone and says they received both a letter and an email from both my lawyers (each a different lawyer working for different firms so I have 2 firms representing me) and says they want to get this settled as soon as possible. I told them I would take no less then this amount and they agreed. So now, I ask them when are they gonna pay me, and he couldn't give me a specific date. He said in a few days but I call BS. I have been dealing with this guy now for 3 months and he's had my coins for the past 5 weeks and I know it was because of my lawyers that he finally called.

    I talked to my lawyer yesterday and he said give them 10 business days to send me the check, and if not, he will call them and make a few calls to his friends at the FBI. I will let you know if/when I get the check.


    I hope my situation will help all who consider doing business with this guy. I wouldn't do it. :s1:
     
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  32. Chester-Copperpot

    Chester-Copperpot Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter Platinum Bling

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    Hope you get this resolved, these guys sound like a right couple of shady bastards. Don't know if you recorded the phone call, but if you call them again, record it.
     
  33. samwiii

    samwiii Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Sounds like theft to me if they converted (sold) your property without your permission. Hopefully you can get this all sorted out without having to involve the police, but that may be something to help motivate them to meet your price quickly.
     
  34. latemetal

    latemetal Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Don't forget to complain to the Better Business Boys and any coins magazines he advertises in, if he doesn't pay up.:realmad:
     
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  35. jcz1

    jcz1 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    He advertises in Coin World all the time. I would definitely let me know that he's stealing from their readers.
     
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  36. danny dddd

    danny dddd New Member

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    i bought my coins from chaim greenberg and my experience was good.
    the deacon from from church reccomended him.
    the service was timely and chaim sent my coins on time

    danny dddd:idea:
     
  37. 97guns

    97guns Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    stinks of Ponzi, last man standing doesn't get a chair
     
  38. danny dddd

    danny dddd New Member

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    so has this been resolved

    chief

    whats the status of your complaint?
     
  39. rodzm

    rodzm Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Deacon from church? Perhaps you live very close to Chaim, hell you probably go to the same church he goes to and now you claim to say his service was timely. Welll geez no **** you may have received timely service if you live close to him. He wouldnt dare scam someone who lives close or knows someone from church.

    Hate to say but your feedback adds nothing to the current conversation, only more salt to the wound that has been inflicted upon by this Chaim guy upon chief
     
  40. Kingfisher

    Kingfisher Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Hmmmmmm, Chief's coins??
     
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