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Are there any pilots here? Please debunk this!

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by solarion, Jan 1, 2018.



  1. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    FEAF7BD7-F2BE-4B01-B44B-223D5118D458.jpeg

    How does one explain all the maps of Antarctica from multiple civilizations and time periods that don’t depict it as being the outer edge of the planet?
     
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  2. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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  3. AguA

    AguA Seeker Seeker

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    As altitude increases, air pressure decreases. Less air molecules at higher altitudes than at lower altitudes. Yes?

    A pilot sets his altimeter to the local pressure setting. At it's most basic, inside the altimeter are these sealed capsules with a set pressure in them. By adjusting the setting for the airfield he is on, the pilot sets the reference for the altimeter to use in displaying his barometric altitude above sea level. As viking stated above, above certain altitudes, everyone flies a standard setting. Below that, pilots must adjust for the local setting.

    Since the altimeter is using barometric pressure to display altitude, there's no way that an aircraft will just keep climbing when flying straight and level without barometric altitude changes being shown on the altimeter, regardless of whether the earth is flat or curved. See first sentence above.

    Also, the curvature of the earth varies around the globe. The planet is not a pretty, perfect sphere but more of a lumpy ball. That's why there are varied geodesic datums used on maps depending on where you are in the world, i.e. WGS84, NAD83, etc.
     
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  4. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Yep those are the answers I get from all pilots, it's just difficult to translate that into much else. The altimeter is based on pressure, but the artificial horizon is an electronic or vacuum gyroscope correct?

    ...and yeah, despite the NASA liars and their pretty blue marble(fake) composite images, the Earth is not what we've been told it is. They call it a pear shaped oblate spheroid now.

    Let's say a pilot is approaching a North South aligned runway near the equator at 125 mph. Does it make any sense that they're landing on a surface that's moving laterally at 1037 mph beneath their aircraft? That sounds really dangerous.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  5. Buck

    Buck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Yikes!

    The Earth Isn't Flat!
    Helio and Geo work due to math, there is no proof either way, we can't tell, we aren't far enough away to prove the nuances, either way but, currently, IIRC, either way, prove mathematically correct and THAT IS Science

    "level" in relationship to the ground, that's all that's required for this technology to work
    there really is nothing else, it's but a relationship issue, same thing with power lines that curve downward the further away they are

    ADD TO EDIT
    think in relationship to the center of the Earth

    a string tied around you, you follow the outter landscape water/land and you end up where you began

    Relationship, flat earth, gravity, whatever, it's all relationship
    Makes me feel better when I think down is down, that's why the wires hang the way they do all the way down
    lol

    So, you're telling me, all that drawing on the edges of the map isn't Atlantis?
    So, we we're still looking for it?
     
  6. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    You realize if you're in the US, up is down relative to someone in Australia right?

    What if we're Atlantis?

    ...and the theory of gravity does not work due to math. It's a trainwreck.
     
  7. AguA

    AguA Seeker Seeker

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    I'm missing what you are trying to translate it into? Barometric pressure changes as you climb or descend. The instrument picks it up and the pilot sees it. He makes adjustments to maintain his barometric (air pressure) altitude. Some of the aircraft I've flown were equipped with radar altimeters so as to measure actual altitude above ground. When following one altimeter for reference, the other one always changes as its reference point is shifted.

    As for flat earth or not, I can only tell you I have flown around the globe and don't ever recall being in a constant left or right bank to return to where I started out initially. If it was flat, the last leg of the return flight to my starting point would've been as long as the whole flight up to that point. It wasn't.

    Btw, if you hold a golf ball up to your eye and look, it's curvature is much more apparent than if you hold one of those gigantic 12' beach balls up at eye level. What if you put a sugar ant on each ball? I'm betting their perspective of apparent curvature is totally different for each ant.

    In the end, it comes down to accepting the truth of certain facts in order to make sense of what is real and what is science fiction. It's great to question things but to doubt everything leaves no place to begin moving towards any understanding. It's exactly the confusion you guys accuse TPTB of creating. They bury truth in tons of BS so as to make everyone feel baseless in their beliefs and understanding. Exactly what Satan is accused of doing to cover God's truth from us. But then, I've gone way far beyond what I was originally trying to explain.
     
  8. Buck

    Buck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Again, relationship
    If you're in Australia, God help ya because the queens not going to
    oops i digress
    If you're in Canada, same thing
    oops, i'm sorry, my fingers are going spastic

    LOL

    so,
    If, you're in Antartica, up is still up, not compass up, but Up, look up!
    Same if you're in the Arctic, Look Up!
    Now, simple as tying my shoes, I had to be taught, Look Down

    See?

    Can't really go any other way
    Science is nothing but observation

    We're not talking magnetic, not compass, not wind, not bird's fly, not anything other than relationship to where you are

    Got Shoes?
    Look at them, that's down

    Flying a plane?
    Look down.
    No, look below where your shoes currently are
    That's down and the only relationship you have is to come in horizontally with some vertical drop only as necessary and as controlled
    Only thing keeping you airborne is to fake nature, to add technology and that adds another relationship tree to your life

    So, keep it simple, look down, your shoes, look up, the sky
    Walk around the globe, take a ship/boat where necessary, and you'll end up right back where you started from

    Looking at your shoes




    That's Round - 6 point math x 10 counting Sumerian Math

    Gravity?
    Take it only if you need it and if you say I need it, I'll smile, take two, call you in the morning and agree:2 thumbs up:
     
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  9. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    My problem is that I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around the notion that aircraft are conforming to a spheroid that's roughly 25,000 miles in circumference while flying level. This means huge amounts of altitude have to be shed constantly. 26,600 feet of altitude would have to be shed every 200 miles...surely that would have to show up on a gyroscope. right?

    I get the perspective thing you're talking about, and it's a good one, but there I have another issue. See if the Earth is a giant spheroid then the horizon line should not be at eye level when you gain altitude. From the perspective of an ant on a beach ball, gaining altitude would cause the sphere to appear to fall away in every direction.
     
  10. AguA

    AguA Seeker Seeker

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    Using the center of the earth as a reference point isn't much different than using Greenwich Mean Time or Zulu as a reference for time or International Date line for calendars.
     
  11. Buck

    Buck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Good Post!
    No you didn't but it's easy to do around here - i'm typing that 'cause we're all having our nuts tickled around here if you ask me, but no one has and I've helped to feed the monster
    :dog:


    Party on like a rock star:beer:!
     
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  12. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Yes. That's what "level" is on a round Earth such as the one we live upon.

    Again with this pear shaped stuff? I've told you over and over that the Earth is only 40 miles wider at the Equator than it is from Pole to Pole. That's less than one half of one percent of Earths diameter. Do you really think a mere 40 mile difference is going to be readily noticeable? It's not. It'd be the same as asking your wife if she notices the extra eighth of of inch you've gained around your midsection. Unless you actually measure it, you wouldn't notice just by looking from a distance.

    Yet something pulls stuff towards the center of Earths mass.
    ...and this is why I think you are so stuck on the Earth not being spherical in shape. Because if it is, people on the other side of it have their up and down reversed relative to the up and down of people on this side of it. If that's the case, then some forcve is pulling things towards the Earth and you've already convinced yourself that gravity doesn't exist. Therefor the Earth needs to be some shape other than a spherical one. Hence the clinging to flat Earth stuff.


    Get over it. Gravity is a thing and it causes things to fall whichever side of the Earth one may find themselves on.


    That's what he doesn't want to do. If he can't see it feel or touch it, it doesn't exist.

    Couldn't agree more. Nail, meet hammer.

    This is the jist of his conundrum He thinks all "up and down" is relative to his position on the Earth. Hence a plane always needing to nose down the whole flight in order to not fly off into space. If that's the case, anyone on the other side of the Earth should fall off, because they'd be hanging upside down by their feet. That's what he can't seem to get past because to not fall off the bottom of a round Earth requires a gravity-like force to pull everyone towards the center and buoyancy alone can't do that.
     
  13. AguA

    AguA Seeker Seeker

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    It's a matter of scale as depicted by the golf ball or beach ball relative to the size of the ants. I'm 6 feet tall and 20 inches wide with a 44 inch waist. How does that compare to the earth circumference you stated above? How high do I have to go to see the curvature you're questioning? If an airplane was the size of Arkansas and our bodies scaled in size to match it, perspective would sure be different for us vs the planet in seeing the horizon fall away as you say. This isn't a kitchen counter we're talking about in size comparison.
     
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  14. AguA

    AguA Seeker Seeker

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    I'll just leave this point with this: On the freeway, aren't you moving at the same rate of speed as the car you're riding in? If it stops suddenly, aren't you launched at the speed you were traveling, at least initially (since you don't have a propulsion system built in to you).

    Wouldn't a plane be moving with the planet at it's same speed until it takes off under it propulsion? Again, at the speed/size scale we're talking about with the plane/planet vs the scale of your body to a moving car, how long until a plane bleeds of the planet's inertial speed?

    I don't know either so that's as far as I go with that one.
     
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  15. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    @AguA , on the following diagram, he would think that a plane taking off from the point marked "horizon" would fly level relative to that point. In other words, "level flight" would be a flight parallel to the dotted line. Ie: a plane would eventually fly off into space.

    He's having a hard time understanding that "level" means relative to the curved surface of the Earth.

    flat.jpg
     
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  16. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I would imagine so.


    How so? Haven't you ever seen it? All ya gotta do is look up in the right direction when it passes over your location. Have you even tried to see it? You say you only believe that which you can see with your own eyes. So go see it. I hadn't looked for it lately, but I've seen it numerous times. Space shuttle too. I used to keep up with it constantly. Always watching when it was up there to be sure I didn't miss an over flight or re-entry if it would be visible from my locale. If you ever saw a re-entry, you'd want to see every one possible. Especially at night. Nothing you'll see in the sky is quite like it.

    https://spotthestation.nasa.gov/sightings/
    Edited to add: a pair of binocs might be useful to help you see it's distinctive shape.
    ...and if you think it's just a high flying plane to fool you, time how long it takes to cross the sky and do the math to get an idea of its speed. No plane can go that fast.

    I've tried explaining this multiple times already. He somehow thinks that people and objects upon the Earth do not also carry the same angular momentum as the Earth does. Hence the earlier comment about it being dangerous landing a plane on a runway that's moving at >1000mph.
    Ie: the reasoning here is that if the Earth is spinning, one should be able to hover in a helicopter and allow the Earth to rotate under them. Because it doesn't, the Earth must not be moving. That's where he's coming from on this. He doesn't accept that the Earth and everything on it, all move together as a unit.
     
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  17. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    I intentionally chose a North and South facing runway, because now the plane is approaching the runway which is moving laterally from it's perspective. Landing on this seems like a very dangerous prospect if Earth is spinning at 1037 mph at the equator.
     
  18. AguA

    AguA Seeker Seeker

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    Spot on with the graphic, Joe.
    If one rejects the center of the earth as the reference point, it's impossible for anything beyond that to be explained or understood.


    @solarion
    I just watched some of the video through to his GPS talking points. I'm sorry but I'm calling BS on him. At its most basic, the fact that he's a civilian flight instructor really just means he can safely talk and wiggle the sticks, and procedurally, knows how to answer on his check rides with the FAA.

    I'm not knocking the small general aviation planes he flies since we can't all be Chuck Yeager. But his particular knowledge and experience base is very much lacking. For starters, he lacks comprehension of systems functionality. He's mixing and matching facts to fill in gaps within his own understanding. His arguments are too easy to dissect, all the way through the GPS systems.

    Now he's achieved a flight rating for a position where he just has to share his "enlightenment" with others. I have to wonder if gaining exposure with experienced pilots outside his fishbowl would help him grow as an aviator. He could be too set in his own "understanding". If so, he'll be little more than a street racer in an RX-7 with a 5-speed, talking like he's drives an F1 car for a living.

    Honestly, on his course, he's embarrassing to other flight instructors and the pilot community as a whole.
     
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  19. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    I'm not really looking to learn to fly with the guy, I'm just trying to understand the mechanism that allows an aircraft to follow the surface of the allegedly curved Earth.

    I reject the center of the Earth as a reference point because the unproven theory of gravity is nonsensical gibberish. Nobody even knows what gravity is. Nobody can define gravity in any consistent or meaningful way. It's a force, a curvature, an acceleration, an attraction, it's nonsensical gibberish and remains so 351 years after it was "discovered". It's a bunch of madness to accept as fact that which you cannot prove.

    https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question30.html

     
  20. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What don't you understand about the plane also having the Earths momentum?

    Did you even try the car experiment I suggested? Or just dismiss it out of hand because of what some hack said?

    If when riding in a car at a constant 50mph you toss an object upwards, does it fly backwards and hit you in the chest at 50mph? No, it doesn't do that. You me and everyone reading knows it won't do that. Why won't it do that? Because you, the tossed object and everything in the car is moving at 50mph along with the car. Ie: the tossed object carries the same momentum as the car and therefor from your frame of reference, the object appears to move straight up and then straight down. Again, we all know this for a fact.

    Now, why on Earth would you think that if the Earth's surface is moving East, that you and everything else on the Earth would not be moving along with it?
    In this case the Earth is the same as the car and the tossed object the same as the plane. Is it really that hard to understand?
    ...and we've been over this how many times now?


    It's what causes everything to be accelerated towards the Earths center of mass. What else could it be? Something causes your stuff to fall down, and that same thing causes stuff in Australia (down under) to fall down too. Except their "down" is in the same direction as your "up". The only way that works is for something to be causing things to accelerate towards the Earth from all upwards directions. Whatever that "something" is, we call it gravity. Be it a real force or be it an effect of something else. Either way, we call it g r a v i t y.



    Here's a good vid you should watch. Explains a lot of what we've been discussing. I especially like the part where he tries to weigh the helium balloon, but it keeps rising off the scale. lol
    If nothing else, it should at least entertain you for a bit.

     
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  21. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What about bikes?

    The Bicycle Is Still A Scientific Mystery: Here’s Why

    Yet people still ride them without any clear understanding of how or why, just that they can ride them.

    Another one is, why do we sleep? It's an accepted fact we need it, but no one really knows why. Should we all stop sleeping until it can be proven that we need it and why?

    We don't even know for sure how many muscles are in the human body. Should we quit using some of them until we know for sure how many there are?

    It's a fact that placebos can work, but why? No one knows.

    We don't even know for sure how anesthesia works, yet everyday we give it to people so they can be cut on. Should we stop performing surgeries until we have solid proof how it works? Isn't just knowing that it does something useful, enough?

     
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  22. AguA

    AguA Seeker Seeker

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    The ribbon across the cone depicts the reason why airplanes don't fly parallel to lines of latitude when traveling great distances, i.e. California to Japan, or NYC to France. The flight path from California to Japan actually goes towards Alaska and then along the east Asian coast to Japan. It's actually the shortest route although it appears to arc. Same when flying to Europe.
     
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  23. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Sol, if I understand the question, the answer seems simple--gravity. The same reason the moon doesn't go flying off into space.
     
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  24. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Correct.

    With the lack of friction in space it gets stuck like that.
     
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  25. G-khan

    G-khan Founding Member Founding Member

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    This IMO is a false flag and designed to distract and have people waste time. So you guys have at it and waste your time..

    Bunch of nonsense just like the refilling oil wells info.. They are also pushing aliens so have fun there also.. Peace
     
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  26. smooth

    smooth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Ever have a mosquito in your truck when you are driving 50 MPH? How can it continue to annoy me when he should be splatted against the rear windshield? Because the atmosphere inside the truck is also going 50 MPH....
     
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  27. AguA

    AguA Seeker Seeker

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    Excellent. Thank you. You just brought back a memory of an IP I had years back giving me the same example. If he were here now, he would've followed up with, "You must be suffering from vuja de, the feeling you've never heard any of this before."
     
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  28. OhWell

    OhWell Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Depending on the type of aircraft (prop, turbojet etc) aircraft stop flying, or have maximum altitudes they can achieve, depending on speed, weight, and wing configuration. If an aircraft flew a straight line as depicted in the graphic it would continually bump up against it's maximum sustainable altitude where it would stall, causing it to at the very least lose altitude, if not all control.

    If you think landing on a north south runway on a globe spinning at 1037 MPH is dangerous, spend a little time looking into what the Navy aviators do on an aircraft carrier bouncing around on the ocean. But of course that's all done in a studio as well and not real. Heck, if you deny logic and physical observation there is no such thing as an aircraft, just another government lie.

    40 years as an air traffic controller tell me aircraft do fly, the earth is (kinda) round, aircraft have absolutely no difficulty maintaining a constant altitude over the ball we live on, and the space program is very real. Pretty soon anyone with enough money will be able to take a quick ride up and see it for themselves. But that won't be enough evidence for those that live in the flat earth fantasy world.
     
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  29. keef

    keef Пальто Crude Platinum Bling

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    Yes, the world, she's a FLAT. Like Olive Oil's chest.



    And I wanted to be a pilot, but would have prob ended up like this guy.
     
  30. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    How do you know that? How do you know gravity exists? What is gravity?

    Something is plainly keeping the moon circling the Earth, but how do you know it's gravity? Gravity is just what we've all been told, but I cannot create the same effect myself. ...and also the concept of gravity quickly falls apart when you think in terms of moar than just two objects. I mean why isn't the sun's powerful alleged gravity pulling the moon away from Earth?

    How the heck can gravity be causing the orbit of Halley?

    [​IMG]

    ...after rounding the sun Halley appears to actually be REPELLED by the sun, then it mysteriously makes a strange eccentric orbit for awhile before returning...supposedly because of gravity. Talk about a wild theory.

    Gravity is an undefined pseudo-scientific word stamped onto half the stuff we can see but cannot explain. There's another word that is deployed for similar reasons. MAGIC
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  31. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    An example of the forces of gravity!

    commiefreerides.gif
     
  32. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Gravity doesn't exist. There doesn't even exist a proper definition of the word "gravity" beyond the etymology. We accept gravity as fact simply because it was pounded into our heads by those we trusted when we were young and impressionable, then we grow up and never question it again. Newton's "law" of Universal Gravitation has never been proven...not in 351 years of trying.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Gravity is no more a fact than is climate change, the theory of relativity, or that nonsense Darwin was peddling.

    We've been lied to on a grand scale.
     
  33. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Can you make water bend around the outside of a spheroid? Why doesn't it "stick"? Why doesn't gravity magic work for you? The Earth is supposedly covered 71% by water...does water bend? Why is it called "sea level"? How can the Earth be a spheroid covered in water, if water does not conform to spheroids? Gravity magic?

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  34. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    How so? Is not the corpse heavier than the surrounding air? Don't we already know that things that are moar dense than their surroundings sink? What if the guy with the rope around his neck was made out of helium?
     
  35. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    That's an unfair question. I don't believe he became a corpse until after his neck snapped!
     
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  36. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    A fair point, though in my defense, it was the most expedient way in which I could make my point. Plus I did not/do not know that he was not dead when pushed from the flying rotor dragon machine.

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    What changed?

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    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  37. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Where is the water supposed to go? Gravity pulls it to the center of the earth.
     
  38. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    So the surface of the atlantic, pacific, indian, etc ocean is curved? It would HAVE to be...correct? How do you know this? Isn't that a huge leap of...faith? I cannot make water conform to the exterior surface of a spheroid, and I suspect neither can you. Why? ...are we both just incompetent goofballs? ...or is gravity just bs?

    Newton's 351 year old "law" of universal gravitation states simply that mass attracts other mass...but that is not my experience with my surroundings. Gravity majik only seems to work on grand scales which I cannot verify with my own senses. IOW Newton was wrong.

    The only source I have to confirm the effects of gravity...is NASA...and they're liars.
     
  39. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    How can something so selective as Newton's unproven "law" of universal gravitation be a "universal law" if it's so selective and not universal? Talk about a misleading word salad. It sounds like something that came out of the not federal indebted reserve.

    Gravity magic is allegedly so powerful it can stick trillions of gallons of incredibly heavy water to a spinning spheroid, yet it cannot stop a butterfly from floating gently away. WTF?!?

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  40. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    [​IMG]

    So New York Shitty is supposedly 304 x 304 miles. This means the alleged curvature of the ground upon which New York Shitty rests is allegedly 304x304(7.98) = 737479.68 inches / 12 = 61456.64 feet / 5280 = 11.63951515151515 miles square.

    Does ANYBODY believe that the outskirts of New York Shitty are 5.82 miles lower than the center? Wouldn't the buildings then have to be leaning...visibly?
     

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