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Are there any pilots here? Please debunk this!

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by solarion, Jan 1, 2018.



  1. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Buh bye, thanks for uh...helping.

    Presumably then, you're a true blue believer in gravity magic yet also have no idea what it is? Kewl. That seems to be a widespread belief structure.
     
  2. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    OK, here's another angle.
    If the Earth is not round, it must have taken an awful lot of effort to police everyone's thoughts on the subject, going to great lengths to make it all seem to fit together, especially to people who survey and navigate great distances.
    What is the motive? Cui bono?
     
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  3. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Cool. I bet you're can go pretty far on it now. I'd been wondering if you'd kept at it.

    Yep, alls good here. Just having fun hangin' with sol. lol
     
  4. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    By "round", I assume you mean "spherical" here?

    Now you wish me to speculate about the motives of those that, I suspect we can both agree, are trying to enslave us?

    Consider for a moment that you're trying to construct a plan to bring the entirety of human kind under your sway. What are the obstacles that must be overcome? Well you'd likely benefit by breaking down existing power structures.

    ...belief in higher powers + belief in family values/structure. Further I believe you'd benefit by altering history and/or convincing human kind that they're far younger than they actually are.

    Think of the difference in significance between biblical belief structures and pseudo-scientific belief structures. In theology mankind is created in God's image, he's the center of a universe that revolves around him.

    ...but here comes pseudo-science with their "theories". There was an infinitely tiny "big bang" that made no sound. Humans are not the children of a supreme being, but are instead evolved from apes. ...oh and btw the universe is near limitless and your tiny ball of mud is just a tiny speck that revolves around an unremarkable star.

    "Now STOP thinking about why we're here, go slave some taxes, and spend spend spend..."

    Look at the theories often peddled as fact that many of us can likely agree are garbage. Global warming? lol Evolution? please. Relativity? gimme a break.

    Gravity? No way mang! ...that's just good "science"! ...any century now pseudo-science is going to capture them elusive theoretical gravitons! ...just you wait!
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  5. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    th.jpg
    Not that I challenge anything in your post, but could you be more specific in answering my question? It costs them plenty of time and energy to perpetuate falsehoods. What benefit do they get from having us believe the earth is spherical if it isn't so?
     
  6. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Dude? Did you not read anything I typed?

    How could you have a ridiculous sun worship model like heliocentricity without a silly pseudo-scientific theory like gravity? Without gravity the entire model falls apart.

    You asked me to speculate on motivations and I did so. If the Earth is flat and mankind is the center of his geocentric world then there's clearly a power > man.

    Would people be so anxious to go murder their fellow humans at the behest of banksters if there was evidence of a higher power? I suspect not.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  7. Jarrod32

    Jarrod32 Seeker

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    A sign that says "Post No Bills".
     
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  8. DodgebyDave

    DodgebyDave Metal Messiah Midas Member

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    ever try to float a piece of steel in your bathtub? So, therefor, steel ships don't float..........
     
  9. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    No, water displacement is a real thing that's easily proven...unlike gravity.
     
  10. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Well there'd be a whole lot moar water I suppose.

    Perhaps we should ask Al Gore, he seemed to think we'd all be sleeping with the fishes by now. Group think science isn't worth a damn.

    I dunno where you guys are, but it's cold as hell where I am. Never mind worrying about melting ice, I'm worried about my car being t-boned by a glacier.
     
  11. ErrosionOfAccord

    ErrosionOfAccord #1 Global Warmer Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    I can’t read through all of this tripe.

    The reason the idiot trainer pilot doesn’t have to adjust to the curvature of the earth is because the plane is adjusted to counteract the force known as gravity and gravity is a relatively stable force therefore little adjustment is needed to keep the plane from flying off into space. I won’t be coming back to this thread because it makes my head hurt.
     
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  12. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    So...reasons then? Gravity magic? ...again? Everyone, but you is just dumb? Why can't I make gravity magic work for me? Can you make gravity magic work for you? Why is my gravity magic < your gravity magic? Why is NASA's gravity magic >>> ALL others' gravity magic?

    If the thread is making your head hurt...don't you wonder why? Is it possible that you're having difficulty because you're doing battle with the forces of cognitive dissonance? No WAY! ...everyone else is just dumb! #safespacesaresafe

    This is precisely why I keep asking how a gyroscope can indicate level flight. While an altimeter based on air pressure can also indicate level flight. How can both indicators be correct?

    If the Earth is curved a huge amount of altitude must constantly be shed. It's a fact, that anyone capable of simple maths can verify.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  13. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    If you're driving a sub and you're making your depth based on the surface of the ocean, then you're constantly making adjustments to maintain that depth IF the surface of the ocean is curved.

    ...but the Navy sub guy in the interview I linked said that isn't the case. Is he lying? ...does he somehow not know what he's talking about? I haven't driven many subs, but he sure sounded credible to me. Then they bring in another Navy guy(surface fleet) and he agrees with everything the submarine guys said. ...are they both lying? ...are they both stupid?



    ...are there any sub drivers here that want to explain how this guy is a stupid dummy that has no clue what he's talking about? I'm sure willing to listen.



    Does a gyroscope even work on a spheroid Earth? These Navy guys seem to say...NO.

    Is THIS guy dumb?



    He must be...he mentioned doubt re: gravity magic...sounds like another stupid dummy.

    ...and once again. WE WERE WARNED.



    Guess...add Ike to the ever growing list of stupid dummies.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  14. chrisflhtc

    chrisflhtc Site Supporter Site Supporter

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    Gravity is like a string tied to you and anchored to a point in the center of the planet. The earth is the same, if the rotational speed was to diminish we would fall to the center of the sun. Try spinning a paddle ball in a circle then stop spinning it, change the length and see what happens, while its spinning it can spin at any angle but always around the staple.
     
  15. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Kewl, good to know. No doubt it will surprise to hear that I also suffered through grade skool physics classes. I realize when we're young and being indoctrinated that silly things like...oh I dunno...proof aren't really a thing, but doesn't reason and evidence have to manifest at some point? ...or is it empiricism be damned forever?

    So WHAT IS IT? Is it a force? ...a curvature? ...an acceleration? ...an attraction? Magic?

    How does gravity work? ...do you think? More specifically, how does it work at > light speed?

    Happen to know off hand, how massive an object must be before its gravity magic begins to manifest? I can't seem to find that formula anywhere.

    I'm dumb, ignorant, and lacking in common sense according to you though so that should surprise none. I just figured with your wealth of knowledge + common sense you'd have that information at your fingertips.
    lolwut? I cannot possibly be interpreting that the way in which someone with your obviously keen intellect intended. Please clarify for us stupid ignorant dummies. Probably I'm just too dumb to comprehend your wise words due to my overwhelmed brain cells.



    THIS stupid dummy Army tank gunner says he doesn't take into account the coriolis effect, gravity magic, or Earth's alleged curvature while doing his job. What an idiot. Only five tours though so probably any day now he'll smarten up...



    O-M-G stupid people are everywhere. I can't believe the Army would let this moron even get near an abrams.

    No doubt a bunch of ex-Army guys are about to show up and explain how they always had to take into account the Earth's alleged curvature, the coriolis effect, and/or alleged gravity magic into their calculations.

    ...looking forward to hearing about how all these guys are just really stupid and don't "get it".

    In a world of historically stupid dummies, this idiot stands head and shoulders above others. His failure as a scientist is well documented. What kind of a stupid dummy fruitcake would conclude that Earth was stationary? Probably had a hard hat to protect his few brain cells.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  16. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    If it is, it's not hurting because of gravity. lol

    That's what you are having sol.

    Apparently they are both correct, or wouldn't we be having lots of planes either crash or fly off into space? Assuming a plane could fly of into space of course. It can't. Planes can't fly into space.


    Nope. Not lying at all.

    What?!? You should def try it some time. I drove a sub to work today and it was totally awesome dude!

    Nope.

    No, just confused. Kinda like you. Which is why I'm trying to help you sol.

    It doesn't. It works at a speed equal to that of light.

    Any size you want it to be. All matter exerts gravity. It's just that with really small objects the gravitational forces are so tiny that the larger force of say the Earths gravity far exceed it. I'm assuming you've been conducting your gravity experiments inside Earths gravity well, correct?

    No, I don't think that at all. What I think is that you have merely been confused about certain things for awhile now and have a hard time seeing past your previous incorrect conclusions.

    The distances and size of projectile they are shooting come nowhere close to the example given in your diagram. The most they'd be off in their aim due to the Coriolis effect would be measured in inches, at most.
     
  17. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Thanks dr. joking, I've page after page of your regurgitations of stuff we've all been taught already. Maybe make yourself useful and sort out boba fett up there with his fall into the sun comment.

    I already know you cannot define gravity, cannot explain gravity, and have zero idea what causes gravity. Hell, you weren't even aware Newton himself posited that gravity must propagate instantaneously. I'm glad it makes you feel good about yourself to vomit forth rote data, but it's not entirely helpful. Happy to hear about it if you actually do miraculously experience an original thought though.

    Cheers.

    Best of luck at your pseudo-scientific religious functions. I suggest taking banana pudding...let the other conformists bring the boring jello salad. Just a thought bruh.

    What is gravity?

    I dunno, but it's a fact! ...because reasons. Dunno what it is, dunno what causes it, can't invoke gravity majyk myself or observe it's effects myself, but it's a fact! ...and if you say otherwise it's because you don't even science! ~joking
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  18. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Thanks for your pages of regurgitating all the crap you've absorbed from people who are more confused than even you are.


    So to recap, to believe the Moon landings were faked we must also believe that:
    the Earth is flat
    gravity doesn't exist
    satellites don't exist
    every scientist since Newton's day has been intentionally lying to us
    the Soviets were in on it
    the Chinese are in on it
    planes don't operate the way we think they do
    nor submarines
    nor that planes can land on North/South runways
    oh, and that Chicago is under 600' of water and is always visible from 56 miles away


    Have I missed anything? I wanna make sure I've got your hokum understood correctly.
     
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  19. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Yeah, if I believed this piece of shit landed on the moon, I'd be expanding the scope of the conversation + shifting the subject toward the idiot asking questions rather than the questions themselves as well.



    https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/aldrinlm_full.jpg

    You've got to be effing kidding me.

    I dunno a damn thing about gravity magic, but Neil definitely was on the moon! The department of war would never lie to me! #getwokealready

    I dunno if you missed anything, but you did lie again...something you seem to do often unfortunately. Either find the quote where I said this:
    ...apologize, or stfu.

    Yeah, I'll wait. Liar.

    BTW here's the interviewer's contact information. I look forward to hearing you explain to the Navy guys, the Army guy, and the flight instructor that you know more than they about all these topics. Please let us all know when you're going to be on the show to set them all straight.

    msargent23@comcast.net 303-494-6631

    [​IMG]

    Weird...don't those dumb brits even science?!?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
  20. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Just to be clear, I'm not calling you an idiot. Just confused about a few things that have led you off on a tangent.


    Dismissing any evidence to the contrary of what you think you know, is your biggest mistake. Instead, you should be asking why that evidence shows something contrary to what you think you know. Like that pic you posted of Chicago from 56 miles away. Instead of asking why those buildings look stretched out, you just stop at the point of seeing them at all and say, "see? you can see Chicago from 56 miles away. Therefor the Earth must be flat".

    Instead what you should be asking is, "why do those buildings look stretched in the vertical and why is this not visible every day?". Because we both know that you did not take that pic. You got it off of some flat Earth website that was using it out of context, and you ran with it without critically examining it yourself. Then get mad at anyone else who does examine it critically by pointing out the obvious flaws in the logic required to use the pic to come to the conclusion that the Earth is flat.

    Again, you are merely confused about a few things that you've admitted you hadn't previously thought about too much. Myself, and others here are merely trying to help you to better understand the World in which we live. I'm not lying to you, and I feel safe saying that no one else here who has responded is either. We're just trying to help you. Same as I'd want someone to do for me if I were as mixed up on something as you appear to be. You've admitted yourself that you don't know what to think. So why so adamant that the Earth has to be flat?
     
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  21. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    Doesn't work that way in a convertible. Is there a dome around the earth locking the atmosphere in?
     
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  22. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    Gravity is a made up invisible force used to plug the holes in the Heliocentric model. Without it, the model fails.

    What can be demonstrably proven is that there is a law of density. More dense objects fall to the bottom and less dense objects rise to the top. This is why a beach ball will fall to the surface in air but rise above water. It is more dense than air but less dense than water.
     
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  23. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Nope, just gravity magic...as usual. The Earth is allegedly hurtling through theoretical time/space at 1,880,000 mph while spinning on its axis at 1037 mph, but our atmosphere is perfectly safe due to the powerful gravity magic!

    We don't need no steenkin' roofs mang! ...we got gravity majyk!
     
  24. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    In a convertible you'd have the issue of friction with the outside air. On the Earth there is no such problem due there being nothing in space to cause a drag on the Earths atmosphere. Ie: the Earth and everything on it spins in the frictionless environment of space.
     
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  25. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    I've only ever seen one side of the moon....no matter where I am on the planet. Not sure what that thing really is but what I do know is that humans did not land on it in 1969.
     
  26. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    And that which defies gravity? How do you explain it? Gravity is far from being a proof. It's a theory...and a flawed one at best.
     
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  27. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    Not accurate. The moon landings were faked and it has nothing too do with whether or not the Earth is flat....nor anything else mentioned in that list.
     
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  28. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    What happens at the meeting point between the edge of our atmosphere and the vacuum of space? Why doesn't our atmosphere get sucked into the vacuum?
     
  29. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    Space is a vacuum, no? What prevents the atmosphere from being dispersed away from Earth? The magical theory of gravity?

    Speaking of that vacuum, if there is no friction in space, how does thrust work on rocket engines in space? What are they pushing off of to propel through space?
     
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  30. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    Another thought here...

    Where exactly is the spin of the earth being measured from? The surface or the outer edge of the atmosphere? Like a spinning tire on a wheel, the further from the center point, the faster the spin and force generated. Thus, planes taking off from the surface and ascending to 6 miles up would encounter different speeds than that which they started out with.
     
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  31. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    351 years later and the never proven theory of gravity is still being used as an excuse for nearly everything that cannot be explained about the Hēlios centric model. True pseuedo-science religious fanatics even toss Newton under the bus when it comes to his assertion that gravity must possess "infinite speed", but still hold that the rest of his unproven "law" of universal gravitation must be true. "Hey science challenged idiot, did you not know that Einstein's THEORY of relativity contradicts Newton's THEORY of universal gravitation?!?". Obviously both THEORIES are fact even though neither have ever been proven and they conflict with one another. DUH! #mentalmasturbation
     
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  32. tigerwillow1

    tigerwillow1 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    The INSs in high-end aircraft drift up to about 3,650 feet per hour. Not a big deal in terms of horizontal navigation. A 10-hour flight would be off by about 7 miles at its destination without using any other navaids. Not too shabby! In terms of using an INS for altitude, it's lousy, and you can bet that the gyros in anything the guy making the videos flies come nowhere near the 3,650 feet per hour accuracy.

    So the answer is: Both indicators are not correct. The gyroscope is wrong. A gyroscope is not capable of indicating or maintaining level flight.
     
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  33. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Thanks for your input. Yeah that sounds like a rounding error at 500 knots.
    Surface at the equator. The maths are simple 24,901 miles in circumference/24 hours in a day = 1037.541666666667

    ...as you gain altitude that number increases. ...or would if the whole model wasn't a load of crap.

    With an atmosphere that's allegedly 300 miles thick and magically spinning with the Earth due to undefined gravity magic the maths are such.

    26,760.09/24 = 1115.00375

    This guy talks about it at length. Trying to reconcile everything that's allegedly going on to make this model work is absurd. It's mental gymnastics. We know warm air rises, we know also that it's cold as you gain altitude. Further we know that due to temperature/barometric pressure differences air is moving up and down relative to the Earth while allegedly spinning in lock step with the Earth.

     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
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  34. viking

    viking Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Ring laser gyroscopes are used in most airlines now. Almost no drift.
     
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  35. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    That is consistent with what the Navy guys were saying. Frankly I hear gyroscope and I still think of this:

    [​IMG]
     
  36. ErrosionOfAccord

    ErrosionOfAccord #1 Global Warmer Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    [​IMG]
     
  37. tigerwillow1

    tigerwillow1 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    How much drift is "almost" no drift. I presented accuracy data for INSs, of which a gyroscope is only one of several major subsystems. The compensation and correction features of the INS make its accuracy greater than that of just the gyroscope. The raw specs of the ring laser gyros are items like bias stability, random walk, resolution, etc. I don't know if I'm capable of converting these specs to an easily understandable quantity like feet-per-distance or feet-per-time, and even if I could do it I'm not willing to invest the time. If you're intending to say that my INS error data is incorrect, please correct it by defining "almost" with specific data.

    As one example, the ring gyro based AN/WSN-7 INS, the latest INS used for US Navy ships, specs an accuracy of 1 nautical mile deviation over 24 hours. That's 2,532 feet over a 10 hour flight, except if you research it you'll find that commercial airline INS systems have lower accuracy specs. In looking up the specs I noticed that ring laser gyros are used to measure the flat-earth's rotational speed.
     
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  38. RebelYell

    RebelYell Seeker Seeker

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    Solarion et al,

    I studied physics for a while - but rather a long time ago now - so it's entirely possible that knowledge has moved on without me - but nevertheless think I can add some bits and pieces to the discussion.

    First of all - I think it's worth pointing out that almost nothing in science can be absolutely proven. There are various terms in science to describe scientists' ideas. In the case of gravity, Newton proposed a "law" rather than a theory - and a law is merely an observed relationship. In the case of gravity - Newton simply observed that the force between two objects is proportional to their combined mass divided by the square of the distance between them. The reason that scientists widely accept this law is that it seems to explain very well all the phenomena we are able to observe - although I believe there are some anomalies that we have yet to explain at the sub-atomic particle level.

    It's worth noting however that a law is merely an observation of the way things are - how things behave. It's interesting of course - and it's all an engineer or an explorer needs to do his job - but scientists want more. They want to explain the law and understand why it is the way it is. And that explanation is called a theory.

    In the case of gravity, there are two theories that attempt to explain how it works: Einstein's Theory of General Relativity and Quantum Field Theory (aka gravitons). However there are problems with both of these theories so it would certainly be true to say that nobody yet knows how gravity works, or at least if they do they're keeping it secret.

    It's quite possibly also true to say that we will never know for certain how gravity works - or anything else for that matter. Scientists constantly test laws and theories, and as thinking evolves and technology advances, are able to perform experiments that show that previous laws and theories are not perfectly correct. Other scientists then go to work to try and improve the existing law or theory, or come up with an entirely new one which accounts for the new evidence.

    So to that extent, you are correct. We do not currently understand perfectly how gravity works, and perhaps we never will. And if this is a purely philosophical debate, then I can't even prove that we're not all living in test tubes plugged into the matrix, let alone the existence of gravity. But then again, on that level, nor can you prove that gravity doesn't exist, nor that the earth is flat.

    Assuming that we're not operating on that level, then rationally we should accept that

    (1) Laws (nearly?) always precede theories in science. And the lack of a theory does not invalidate a law, although obviously a good theory provides support for a law.

    (2) Just because a law or a theory isn't perfectly correct doesn't mean it isn't useful, nor that it cannot be used to draw conclusions or make accurate predictions about our environment.

    (3) New theories, to become accepted, must explain all the known facts better than the old theories.

    And this I think is where you fall down, because - at least in my opinion - Newton's law of gravity does explain nearly all observable phenomena very well. And certainly better than any alternative I have yet encountered. Which of course doesn't mean that somebody won't one day find a law and theory which is even more broadly applicable than what we currently have. But I am not prepared to accept that your no gravity / flat earth proposal is the one :-).

    You raise a number of questions and put forward evidence that you believe shows that earth is not a spheroid, but is instead flat. As you might expect, you quickly finds that you can only maintain the flat earth theory if you also calls into question the existence of gravity. However, in my opinion

    - your logic is flawed when you correctly points out that nobody knows how gravity works, but then conclude that the law of gravity must be false simply because there is no theory to explain it. This is a logical fallacy.

    - the evidence you put forward to disprove the law of gravity and the shape of our planet does not in fact show what you believe it shows. The law of gravity and a spherical earth are entirely consistent with all of your observations.

    Forgive me for not re-reading the entire thread and ensuring I cover every question you raised but I think the main ones were:

    1. There is no way for you to verify gravity - only NASA can do it and they are lying.

    What about Cavendish's experiment? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_experiment. This experiment allowed scientists to measure the very small force between small metal balls in a laboratory and can and has been repeated thousands of times.

    2. Water doesn't stick to a small sphere, why would it stick to a large one? And I'm going to lump this together with "Why doesn't the sun rip water off the earth's surface"?

    Newton's law of gravity does account for both of these phenoma. In the case of the small ball

    - here, close to the earth's surface, the earth's gravitational pull is much stronger than the small ball's so the water slides off the small ball onto the earth.

    - if the small ball were far enough away from the earth, and the water were cold enough (and/or the ball large enough) that the water molecules did not possess sufficient kinetic energy to escape the ball's gravitational field then the water would stick to then small ball.

    In the case of the sun and the earth: close to the earth, the earth exerts a stronger gravitational force than the sun. The law of gravity clearly states that the force is proportional to the product of the masses of the two objects divided by the square of the radius - and therefore this close to the earth, it's gravity is stronger.

    Note however that the gravitational force of the sun does have some effect on our water, influencing the tides.

    If some water were placed mid-way between the sun and the earth, it would indeed experience a much stronger pull from the sun than the earth and accelerate toward the sun.

    3. Planes and submarines, using gyroscopic navigational aids, don't have to make altitude adjustments as they circumnavigate.

    This is because navigational gyroscopes are specifically designed with vanes to address exactly the problem you raise. These vanes cause the gyroscope to slowly adjust as the direction of gravity changes. Otherwise you would indeed have to make complicated altitude adjustments.

    See the following link for an explanation which was actually in response to a question about an aircraft turning but includes the information you need:

    https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...-enough-will-the-ai-show-im-level/14659#14659


    Now equally, if you want to posit a flat earth, then there are some things which are very difficult to explain.

    1. Along similar lines to your flawed gyroscope example - but showing the precise opposite, Foucault used a pendulum in his very famous experiment to show that the earth is rotating. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foucault_pendulum.

    The fact that the pendulum precesses at different speeds and in different directions depending on its position relative to the poles and the equator is very strong evidence that the earth is a spheroid.

    2. If the world is flat, how is it night in some parts of the world while it is day in others? Try phoning up somebody in China right now and ask where the sun is?

    3. Why do we see different stars in the Southern hemisphere (if it's not a hemisphere)?

    4. The difference in the angle of the sun's rays at noon at different latitudes is not consistent with a flat earth. Eratosthenes was able to use this information to actually calculate the circumference of the earth very accurately over 2000 years ago: http://www.eaae-astronomy.org/eratosthenes/eratosthenes-99456.

    5. Why can you see further from a mast top or a tree top, than from a ship's deck or the ground?

    6. This one's a bit subjective, but there are countless reports of people seeing the curvature of the earth from Concorde which used to fly at about 60,000'. I'm not going to hang my hat on this one though - as I agree that this could certainly be Mockingbirded.

    Now I'm pretty sure that I'm not suffering from cognitive dissonance. I went through that period a long time ago. But, having woken up, I have realized how difficult it is to determine the truth of any matter. Just because the government cannot be trusted, and indeed frequently lies when it suits their purposes, doesn't mean that everything they say is a lie. And I have come to terms with the fact that I will likely never know for certain many things which I would like to know.

    It is also important to remember that the entire sum of human knowledge and philosophy built up over thousands of years is not all a propaganda device designed to mislead you. There are, and always have been good people and good scientists in the world doing their best to tell the truth. And in this case I'd far rather trust the scientists who proposed that the earth was round, than the catholic church which violently suppressed the theory for a thousand years. Both from a human assessment of their motivations, and from my own ability to understand the arguments of both sides and filter them based on my own understanding of the world.

    RebelYell
     
  39. RebelYell

    RebelYell Seeker Seeker

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    How do you know that? Maybe you doubt that humans landed on the moon. But it's not the sort of thing you can know for certain one way or the other is it? Unless of course you were one of the people who actually landed on the moon. And even then you might have been tripping I suppose :-)

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  40. RebelYell

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    No - but as somebody else pointed out - there's nothing to stop the atmosphere spinning with the earth so it does. Think about it another way - the earth is like a ball and it's spinning. The gaseous atmosphere is just as much part of that ball as the solid earth so it spins too. Now that runs counter to our experience where things like liquids and gases tend to stop moving quickly - but that's because they are moving through other substances which stop them through friction. There is nothing to stop the earth's atmosphere rotating.

    In the case of a convertible the air in the car is subject to forces from the air outside the car so it is rapidly slowed down (relative to the earth - speeded up relative to the car of course) which you feel as wind in your hair.
     
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