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Are there any pilots here? Please debunk this!

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by solarion, Jan 1, 2018.



  1. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That's just it, they're not visibly the same size. One has 600' of the building hidden behind the horizon.


    It was obviously taken close to Sunset?

    If you recall, it was your pic that you posted as "proof" that Chicago was visible from 30 miles away.
    ...and I agree that it is visible, but only the part of the buildings taller than 600' in height.

    Also, the scale of the two pics of Willis Tower are the same scale. That's what the horizontal red lines I added between the steps on the building where it gets narrower are for. To show that the scale is correct. Ie: nothing is stretched due to atmospheric lensing.
    ...and you still haven't addressed why there are no buildings visible between the red arrows. There are several buildings in that area of town, yet none appear above the waters surface.


    I must add that it is a truly wonderful pic you posted and I thank you again for doing so. You may dismiss it, but everyone else reading can easily see that the lower part of Willis Tower is hidden from view by the horizon and therefor proves that the Earth curves away from the viewer.
     
  2. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Again I will ask...

    A flight path from Sydney to LA looks like this. Notice the curved lines.
    18ADF40F-C145-4D47-B942-BCC82DD520AA.gif

    If the earth is actually flat and looks like D9B6BACF-D086-4C3D-B3DE-1CF3976DE9F3.png

    Then the flight path from Sydney to LA would have you going relatively close to the Arctic circle.

    Are the flight patterns not true?
     
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  3. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    We don't know what the Earth looks like. People have been picking apart flight paths, ON BOTH MAPS, for years. There are dozens of flights that make little sense on the spheroid model as well...bizarre connection locations that make no sense on a globe, but make perfect sense on an AE/Gleason map, this is particularly true in the Southern hemi-"sphere".

    For me, the surest way to prove the Earth is not a spheroid 24,901 miles in diameter is to ask someone to point to the curvature of Earth that is required to make it a giant pear rock. This curvature doesn't exist and connection points like the Suez and Panama canals make this blatantly obvious as the world's oceans would have to be dramatically different altitudes for the globular model to work. Spheroids require curvature...in every single direction. If one envisions themselves as a tiny speck on a giant spheroid, then they'll always be at the top of that spheroid from their own perspective. This means that that spheroid MUST curve away from them in every direction...particularly as they gain altitude. This is not what happens though. Earth is either a spheroid many times larger than we've been told or it's some other shape with very little curvature. This is painfully obvious when one applies the mathematics that governs spheroids and applies it to what one can observe with their own eyes.

    Instead of getting lost trying to figure out which map works or how, I suggest you instead try to prove that Earth is a giant pear rock 7917 miles in diameter. I think you'll be surprised how difficult it is to prove beyond a reasonable doubt without using space/time agency/gumbymint CGI cartoons.
     
  4. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Idk man.

    The flight patterns of a flat map vs a curved one seems pretty damning.

    From Sydney to LA you would be coming in from the north if the earth were flat.
     
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  5. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    We don't know the layout of Earth. There are hundreds of threads on faceplant right this second talking about how nonsensical flight paths are on a globular model as well. There are estimates ranging into the millions of people worldwide that now believe Earth is flat. Here's a web page discussing just a couple bizarre flight paths on a globe.

    https://aplanetruth.info/2016/12/03...n-a-flat-earth-work-perfectly/comment-page-1/

    If you get lost in the weeds you'll spend forever worrying about silly crap like how the heck do eclipses work on either model. I've seen people debating this stuff for years...and they just provide evidence to support their side. I frankly think it's freaking stupid that the globular model claims our atmosphere can exist is contact with the vacuum of space, but globular proponents have a bunch of excuses for this...starting with gravity unicorns(as usual). If one tries to model this in a lab they're not able to do so.

    The bottom line is this. If Earth is a spheroid it has to be curved. If it ain't curved it ain't a spheroid. This is something the guys that support the globe model almost never address, because it's a glaring weak spot. When they do "address" it they usually get a CGI cartoon from a fraudulent space agency and present that as "evidence". When people actually try to prove the Earth is curved with empirical evidence...they fail. There's something fundamentally wrong with the spinning pear rock model. I don't think it's a subtle problem and I don't think one needs a rocket ship to prove anything. If the US for instance is lain upon a giant spheroid then curvature should be obvious...but it isn't.
     
  6. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    You read the comments on the link?

    We DO know the layout of earth. I’ve used maps.
     
  7. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Nope. I don't much care about them either. I'm telling you, people spend years on this crap without even dealing with fundamental issues with the shape of our world. I don't care about this silly crap...people waste forever arguing this nonsensical window dressing nonsense...particularly globe proponents. Everything is insanely complex with that model. Even trying to explain how the eff a plane can land and take off on North South facing runways becomes a physics lesson and even then doesn't make sense when you consider planes having to slow for turns or landings. I. Don't. Care.

    I care that there's no evidence of curvature on the Earth. It should be blatantly IN YOUR FACE obvious if Earth is a spheroid 7917 miles in diameter. The US alone is 2,680 miles across and that's not even the widest point...that's over 900 miles of curvature on a spheroid 24,901 miles in circumference. So if you're standing on an Atlantic coast beach...say in South Carolina, are you at dramatically different altitude then if you're standing on a beach in say Laguna Beach, Commiefornia? For Earth to be giant pear rock 7917 miles in diameter you MUST be at dramatically different elevations...like hundreds of miles different. Suggest you forget about how the deck chairs are arranged and think in a macro sense about how nonsensical the globular model really is. Does "SEA LEVEL" mean level? ...or does it mean "WHATEVER THE FUQ"?
     
  8. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Why would you be at a different altitude?

    Maybe I’m not understanding you correctly, but every point on a sphere is at the same exact height, less we account for terrain.
     
  9. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Precisely. ...this is traditional globe logic. Water curves around a spheroid and does so because gravity magic...no evidence required. You cannot make this happen in a lab and neither can I, but it does and that's a fact! ...allegedly...so just have "faith" that that's how our reality functions and don't waste time thinking about it...right? Never mind that Newtonian gravity is garbage "science" that's never been proven and that you and I have zero empirical evidence that all mass attracts all mass at infinite speed, we believe it because we were told to believe it. ...even though the pens on my desk never attract one another, nor does any other object mysteriously migrate toward other objects that I've observed.

    So now if one drives across the contiguous 48 United States with a gyroscope then they should first measure a rise in elevation of approximately 452 miles and then a drop in elevation of approximately 452 miles...right? Because if "sea level" means equidistant from some, as yet, unproven theoretical iron/nickel core then that's what would HAVE to happen. Will it? Are salt flats...flat? Is Kansas flat? How can things be flat if they're equidistant from a theoretically spinning iron/nickel core?

    miles * miles * 7.98(inches) = expected curvature in inches. That's 904 miles after 2,680 miles. So does the distance to the Earth's alleged core actually vary by up to 452 miles across the contiguous United States?
     
  10. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    You ever see a helium balloon float into the air or a rock sink into water? That’s because of gravity.


    The fatal flaw I see with your argument is very simple... If the earth is round, then all points at sea level are the same distance from the core. You wouldn’t change elevation at all. Do you understand that?
     
  11. newmisty

    newmisty Duppy Conqueror Midas Member

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    I am starting the Flat Testical society if anyone wants to help spread the werd.
     
  12. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    sigh.

    Are you aware that the word gravity was redefined? Don't you think things rose and or sank before 1687?!? How do you suppose the Romans managed to build so many amazing structures over an area 1.7 miles^2 dozens of centuries before Isaac Newton and his nonsensical "law" of universal gravitation was imagined? How did Leonardi Da Vinci manage to create so many amazing things without this awesome invention called "gravity"? Do you suppose he was retarded and didn't know which way was up or down? Come on guys, the world didn't begin in 1666 when a fictitious apple allegedly fell from a tree and hit an English guy in the head. Now less than 400 years later people think you can't even have a damn scale without gravity. lol Do you think people weighed things before Hank Cavendish "weighed the world" and fabricated big "G", by pulling it out of his ass? How were Roman denarii made without gravity fairy dust to "weigh" things?

    THINK. A gyroscope doesn't give a shit about the core of the Earth...which of course nobody has EVER seen anyway. A gyroscope measures movement from a set point...it doesn't work on graviton unicorns. You can build a 9 axis gyroscope for $50 bux, calibrate it, and then drive across the country with it in your car recording changes in altitude. People are doing this...you know what they're finding? They're finded PRECISELY what people with telescopes are finding when they aim them horizontally. The Earth is NOT curved nearly enough(if at all) to be a spheroid 7917 miles in diameter. It just isn't.

    Call them all crazy, but the globe proponents only have excuses to explain this. They ignore, they ridicule, they argue, but they have nothing. Traditional logic says you cannot see a ship at sea from 20 nautical miles due to curvature. Can you? What do you think?

    The problem with the globe model is it doesn't require empirical proof of ANYTHING. You cannot independently confirm graviton unicorns are doing their "magic". You cannot independently confirm water can be made to wrap itself around a giant spinning pear rock. You cannot independently confirm the distance to the moon, the stars, the sun, etc. You MUST take it all on faith. This is what we do when we're indoctrinated in skoolz. We're told some incredible theories that never require any empiricism to back them up. If you go try to get some empirical evidence that Earth is a spheroid 24,901 miles in circumference...you'll not find it, but will instead come to understand that this model is WRONG.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  13. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    If they had differing altitudes the canals would require locks.

    It does exactly that. Which is why the horizon curves around you 360 degrees.

    The very word "Horizon" means, limiting circle. As in a circle around you. It's Latin. Were they in on the conspiracy too?


    Oh but it does.

    You get your education from facebook? Really?

    There's also 3.5 billion people with below average IQ's. You'd be best off not turning to them for your education.

    So why do you seem to care so much about others accepting your flat Earth ideas? Just go be glad that you understand it. Or are you actually just fishing for third party confirmation of these ideas?

    Sorry, but everyone knows that gyroscopes do not measure altitude. Try try again.

    Ok, they're cRaZy.

    Sounds a lot like your approach to this discussion. You've ignored plenty of evidence that destroys your hypothesis, you've ridiculed others for trying to help you to understand, and you've argued quite a bit trying to get others to believe the Earth is flat.
     
  14. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Jeebus joking really dude, I don't know why you bother. The Suez canal has no locks...it's 121.11 miles long...yeah I know that doesn't bother you cuz screw thinking for yourself. The Panama canal has locks to raise ships to the level of Lake Gatun and to lower ships from the level of Lake Gatun. Obviously you won't bother wondering whether Lake Gatun itself is actually convex, because that'd require you to think for yourself.

    ...and for about the 50th time, I don't have any "flat Earth ideas", I have ideas that the currently accepted model is false. You may too, if you'd actually stop parroting your programming and actually think before you type for a change, but of course you don't know jack about gravitational theory and you buy that crap hook line and sinker. You even seamlessly combine Newtonian and Einsteinian gravitational gibberish and think nothing of it, cuz screw facts. lol

    The rest of your post is just the same crap you vomit forth again and again. "Everyone not me is stupid, crazy, or both blah blah blah...".

    You can get a gryoscopic module with 6 or 9 axis functionality and you can get one cheap. No I won't hold your hand while you figure out that what "everybody knows" is wrong.

    Thanks again for showing up in a thread to add absolutely nothing of value.
     
  15. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    It has no locks because the Red and Med Seas are at the same elevation.

    It would be slightly convex. Too slight to detect visually, but it's still there.

    Have you read your own posts?

    So what is it?
    ...and why post all the flat Earth BS that you do if you don't really think that it is?

    You're the only one parroting anything. All the flat Earth crap you've allowed to fill your head.

    That's your response to anyone who tries to help you understand that which you obviously do not currently understand.
    Awhile back you posted that until recently, you hadn't even thought much of all this stuff. You're obviously just beginning to wade in.

    Again, my point was that gyroscopes don't measure altitude.

    gyro.PNG

    Hey now, that's your job. lol
     
  16. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    This is why Facebook has to start rating it’s media.

    How can you honestly say no one knows what a map of the earth looks like? There tons of air, sea and car travel everyday.

    You can mathematically PROVE that the earth is a sphere by plotting the distances to and from every major city. The only model that will always be true is a sphere.
     
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  17. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Okay, forget I said anything. Newtonian/Einsteinian/Frankengravity is a fact, even though nobody knows dik about it, gravitons remain theoretical, you've NEVER seen evidence that all mass attracts all mass, and the Earth is a giant spinning pear rock because NASA says so. Hey, I saw some cartoons they made, so it must be true.

    Holy shit indoctrination works well.
     
  18. EricTheCat

    EricTheCat Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    My telescope still needs to be physically adjusted at exactly the angle one would expect on the accepted model. In other words, if I travel 5 degrees to the south based on GPS coordinates I have to change the angle of my telescope (currently set for my latitude). Our telescopes would not aim properly if the Earth were any other size and shape yet they do. Go on believing in your fantasies while seemingly being incapable of coming up with any evidence of your own.
     
  19. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    If the Earth makes a full rotation every 24 hours and it also circles around the sun every 365.25 days, then how is it possible that the sun is at its the highest point in the sky at noon every day of the year? If the sun is at its highest point in the sky at 12pm on June 21st, then at noon on December 21st at that same location, it should be on the opposite of the ball, thus midnight.

    Care to explain?
     
  20. EricTheCat

    EricTheCat Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    Because the Earth makes a full rotation every 23 hours and 56 minutes or so. The math and geometry really do work if you want to look in to it.
     
  21. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    It matters not.

    There are 360 degrees in a complete rotation.

    Our clocks measure time in terms of hours per rotation, which also breaks down into minutes and seconds. There are 24 man made units of measurement (hours) in a full 360 degree rotation.

    This breaks down to 15 degrees of rotation per hour. This breaks down further to .25 degrees of rotation per minute, or 4 minutes for each 1 degree of rotation.

    Given that the Earth is also circumnavigating the Sun while rotating 1 degree every 4 minutes, then halfway through the Earths rotatation, the sun would have to be on the opposite side of the spinning ball Earth than its start point every 183 days.
     
  22. EricTheCat

    EricTheCat Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    It does matter. You say there are 24 hours in a full 360 degree rotation which is not correct. The Earth makes a complete rotation in 23 hours and 56 minutes. You are adding 4 extra minutes for every day which would accommodate for roughly 24 hours worth of rotation over a year that you are adding which does not exist.

    24hrs - 23hrs 56min = 4 min
    4 min * 365 = 1460 minutes over the year
    1460 / 60 = 24.3333333 hours over the year

    So in half a year, you are not accounting for about exactly one half day's worth of rotation. That is why you think the Earth should be facing the wrong way in half of a year.

    By the way, the 23 hour 56 minute time is easily observable. Go out on a starry night and take an accurate measurment of the angular position of a star. Go out 23 hours and 56 minutes later and that star will be in nearly the exact same position. Unlike the sun which would be closer to the same position at 24 hour intervals.
     
  23. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That's a damn good point there, Muj. The distances on a flat Earth would be vastly different from what we know them to be.
    ...but this pesky little fact will likely go ignored, because to acknowledge it would be to admit the flat Earth argument is well, flat out wrong. lol


    That's because you are confusing a Sideral Day with a Solar day. What you are describing is a Sideral Day, while thinking it is the same as a Solar Day.

    A Solar day is how long it takes the Earth to rotate until the Sun is in the same place in the sky as it was the day before.
    A Sideral day is time it takes for the Earth to complete one 360 degree rotation. A Solar Day is slightly more than a 360 degree rotation.

    Because the Earth is orbiting the Sun, it takes approx 4 minutes longer for any given spot on the Earth to reach what's known as local apparent Solar Noon.

    In case my explaining isn't clear to you, watch this vid. It explains it very well. Only 21 minutes and you'll have a full understanding of the different types of days and why Noon won't be at Midnight 6 Months from now.

    If you truly have questions about this stuff and are honestly looking for answers, here they are.







    Remember, angles are just part of the conspiracy. lol
     
  24. Silvergun

    Silvergun Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Yes the earth is mapped. The second part is incorrect though. I do mapping for a living. Topographic surveys, civil engineering, etc. use plan views (flat), which is converted into horizontal distance its ortho-rectification. Google earth for example is pieces of orthorectified aerial images stitched together.
     
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  25. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That may be true, but the distances don't work on the flat Earthers map.
     
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  26. Silvergun

    Silvergun Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I'm sorry, but that is 100% speculation on your part.
     
  27. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Actually the flat Earth map is the map shown on the UN flag and distances don't match with known distances between various points on Earth.

    Two obvious discrepancies. Those are known flight times.

    yyb51gfoa05z.jpg

    Edited to add:

    flight1.PNG

    flight2.PNG

    Yet on the flat Earth map Sol has posted more times than I can count, it's obviously much further from Auckland to Chile than to LA and we all know that that is not so.
    Edited again to add: bottom line? This flat Earth crap is exactly that, crap. Through and through.
    ...and I hate seeing otherwise intelligent seeming people fall for it. I'm talkin' to you, Sol. If I didn't like the guy and think him intelligent enough to be able to understand this stuff, I'd have never responded at all.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  28. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    If you show me a flat earth map I can easily point out where there would be a discrepancy.

    One example I provided had a trip from Sydney to Los Angeles arriving from the north.

    I believe only a global display will be correct 100% of the time.
     
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  29. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    Actually Muj, that's not true. The flat Earth map has been used for navigation because it is actually MORE accurate than the globe Earth map.
     
  30. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    IMG_1313.GIF
     
  31. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    IMG_1315.JPG IMG_1314.PNG
     
  32. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    No, that's because of density and buoyancy. Less dense objects rise to the top and objects with greater density fall to the bottom.

    This is why if you drop a tree log from an airplane it will fall through the sky - because the tree log is more dense than the air. When it hits the water it will then float on the surface. Since the water has greater density, the tree stays above it.

    Do you think gravity just stops working? It's the same reason a human body will float when inhaling and sink when exhaling. Your weight is the same either way so if gravity as a universal constant force is the cause it shouldn't be selective in that manner.
     
  33. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    That direct flight doesn't exist. Flights in the Southern Hemisphere have layovers in the northern hemisphere. It makes no sense but it's true.

    Again, reference the air navigation map I showed you (it's a "flat earth" map).
     
  34. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Flat earthers will never be able to get Australia correct. In a flat earth map it gets more distorted further south you go.

    The Continental USA and Australia or about the same size in real life.

    On your fake map Australia is huge.
    24E1C6F5-E67B-429E-A81D-3CABF628719C.png

    Also these real life flight patterns would have to be fake.

    Your map will show Sydney to Johannesburg as coming in from the north and across Asia.

    B5AD0D26-5EA9-43FA-9B37-F3505B09299C.gif

    So are the flight patterns from Sydney to Johannesburg south Africa real or not? I think the pilots would know if they went across Asia tour and ocean.
     
  35. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    IMG_1318.PNG IMG_1316.JPG


    Muj - the flight from Johannesburg to Sydney has a layover in Dubai. It doesn't fly across the Indian Ocean in the Southern Hemisphere.
     
  36. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    IMG_1319.JPG

    Another example
     
  37. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    IMG_1317.JPG

    And another example....again the direct flight across the Southern Hemisphere does not exist. On a globe map, flying across the northern hemisphere does not make sense when a direct flight between two distances would be a much shorter distance
     
  38. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    You couldn't be more wrong.

    flight3.PNG


    You certainly got that part of your argument right.
     
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  39. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Google flights says.
    50F68EA4-B1EE-4842-92BF-E3C3EB452E8D.png

    Taken from my phone.
     
  40. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That's totally wack, dude. If that's how they got there, the flight time would be twice as long as a flight between Auckland and LA and it would require multiple flights. Yet when people fly that route, they takeoff once and land once in their destination. All they see most of the flight is Ocean, not North America.
     
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