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Austrian Ducat ?

Discussion in 'Purchasing Precious Metals' started by American Chestnut, Jan 3, 2011.



  1. American Chestnut

    American Chestnut Seeker Seeker

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    I have a local seller offering me Ducats dated 1915 for $155.00 I know nothing about these coins (other than what I just read in the last few minutes).
    What do yall think of these coins? I need some small fractional coins. I only have ounce coins in Gold. I see these are "re-strikes". Are there any fakes out there? Is there anything to be concerned about? What about the price?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog Silver Member Silver Miner

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  3. Gcubed

    Gcubed Banned

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    Content of .1106 oz. Sounds like a smoking deal. Re-Strikes are still gold.
     
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  4. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    I go to www.taxfreegold.co.uk whenever I find a gold coin I need information on.


    1915 Austrian One Ducat Gold Bullion Restrike Coin
    Austrian 1915 One Ducat Fact File
    The first fact to note about the Austrian 1 Ducat of 1915, is that it was not minted in 1915!
    Any dated 1915 are official restrikes.
    Austrian Gold Ducats
    Ducats were gold coins, and also units of account, formerly used in most European countries; including Holland, Russia, Austria, and Sweden. The value of a ducat was generally about 9s. 4d, that is nine shillings and fourpence.
    There was also an Italian ducat silver coin , value about 3s. 6d.
    According to The Oxford English Dictionary, the first Ducat was a silver coin issued in 1140 by Roger II of Sicily, as Duke of Apulia.
    In 1284, the first gold ducat, also called a zecchino d'oro, was struck at Venice under the doge John Dandolo. This coin, worth about 9s., bears on one side figures of St. Mark and the Doge, and on the other a figure of Christ with the legend 'Sit tibi Christe datus quem tu regis iste ducatus'; this, though it did not originate, may have contributed to spread the name, which was subsequently. applied to the gold coins of various European countries.

    Austrian 1915 One Ducat
    Ducats were issued by Austria in 1612, and probably earlier. The last regular issue of ducats was in 1914. All the ducats dated 1915 are restrikes, of which there were 996,721 struck between 1920 and 1936. One ducat coins dated 1915 are still being produced by the Austrian Mint as official restrikes.
    Franz Joseph I was crowned in 1848, and died in 1916.

    An Austrian Tradition
    There is some tradition in Austria for issuing commemorative coins posthumously. After the death of Francis I in 1765, his widow, Maria Theresa, decreed on the 21st July 1766, that coins would be issued bearing the portrait of Francis I, and the date of his death. Alphabetical mintmarks were to be used to denote the actual year of issue, with A = 1766. The posthumous coins were issued erratically.
    Also after the death of Maria Theresa in 1780, the very famous Maria Theresa Thaler continued to be issued bearing her portrait and the date 1780.

    Obverse
    The laureate head, facing right, of Emperor Franz Joseph I
    FRANC IOS I D G AUSTRIAE IMPERATOR

    Reverse
    The arms of Austria superimposed upon a crowned double-headed Imperial eagle.
    HUNGAR BOHEM GAL LOD ILL REX A A 1915

    High Carat Gold
    Ducats were produced in high purity gold, 233/4 carats, making them among the highest purity gold coins ever issued for circulation.

    Thickness
    Because they have inherited their design and appearance from medieval gold coins, they are very thin compared with modern coins, at just 0.8 mm thick.

    Technical Specifications
    Diameter Weight Fineness Gold Content
    20.0 3.4909 .986 .1106

    http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/1915austrian1ducat.php
     
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  5. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Good price, I would snagg them.
     
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  6. American Chestnut

    American Chestnut Seeker Seeker

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    Thanks folks! Yes, its a one ducat coin. I just called and reserved 9 for tomorrow. I might take another 9 later in the week.
    These are supposed to be in uncirculated condition... but I have not seen them yet.
     
  7. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    If online sellers have any they are around $170, most places are sold out.
     
  8. KGMe

    KGMe Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Ask if they have some 4 Ducats! They are .443 toz. They are also the largest fractional gold coin I've ever seen at 40mm. They are only .8mm thick, but inside a ringed air-tite it's hard to notice!

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
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  9. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Here's a few a little older...

    they were a couple of bucks more than listed for some reason?

    Maybe because 1000 men died and they survived?
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Green Light

    Green Light Banned

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    That's a Netherlands ducat which is the same AGW but not nearly as pretty as the Austrian coin. Also available as a restrike.
     
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  11. MISRy

    MISRy Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Yep. Loves my ducats...:biggrin:
     
  12. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Great just great. Now I have to fine me some Doo-cats too.
     
  13. KGMe

    KGMe Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Are they restrikes? I know I've got a 1985 & 1986. I thought they were still minting them with current dates.
     
  14. pay dirt

    pay dirt Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The big ones look like they were an GAE run over by a steam roller.
     
  15. 917601

    917601 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Ducats very useful should other country's fractionals cease production-as has happened. Who wants to sell a one ouncer when gold hits $2250/oz
    with $200 plus/minus daily price swings? Ducats also very popular in Europe,Carribean, Panama-and other popular melt down destinations.I also "test" gold dealers by asking about Ducats-I have found younger, unseasoned, and more "less than honest" buyers have no idea what a Ducat is-they would not get my business. Ditto for British Sovereigns-choice for Middle East and Muslim destinations.
     
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  16. GoldWampum

    GoldWampum Midas Member Midas Member

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    Snatch as many as you can.
     
  17. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    I have a lot of Ducats (restrikes) as stated above .11 gold content very very nice coins they will stack fine in tubes 1915 is the date on the restrikes i have a ton of them from a few years back when they were selling at spot with no premium ..some will look proof like...others will be more BU like....
     
  18. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    I just found 10 - 100 Coronas - that I forgot I bought for around $260 each 10 years ago...

    Do they count?:dance::haha::36_2_36:
     
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  19. fasTTcar

    fasTTcar Seeker Seeker

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    Got one of these in today.

    Will be offering it up tomorrow for 3% over melt shipped if interested.

    email - daniel@coincanada.ca
     
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  20. KGMe

    KGMe Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Nice! I was actually going to buy 2 more of those if I didn't get the ATB set. I got my sales confirmation and overnighted my check for the ATBs today though.
     
  21. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Whats your price on that item? about 600 FRN?
     
  22. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Always good to see you post. Hope things are going well.

    HS
     
  23. fasTTcar

    fasTTcar Seeker Seeker

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    Thanks HS.

    I should mention that some lucky GIM member has it in an envelope on its way to him at this time.

    The next time I get one or more in, I will post.
     
  24. silverblood

    silverblood Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I've wondered how Ducat is pronounced. Is it:
    1) Doo-cat
    2) Doo-cot
    3) Due-cat
    4) Due-cot
    5) Duck-it
    6) Duck-at
    7) ????
     
  25. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    duc·at   /ˈdʌkət/ Show Spelled
    [duhk-uht] Show IPA

    –noun
    1. any of various gold coins formerly issued in various parts of Europe, esp. that first issued in Venice in 1284. Compare sequin ( def. 2 ) .
    2. any of various silver coins formerly issued in various parts of Europe.
    3. Slang . a ticket to a public performance.
    4. ducats, Slang . money; cash.
    Use Ducat in a Sentence
    See images of Ducat
    Search Ducat on the Web

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Origin:
    1350–1400; ME < MF < OIt ducato < ML ducātus duchy; prob. so called from the L words dux or ducātus, which formed part of the legends of such coins Dictionary.com Unabridged
    Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2011.
    Cite This Source | Link To Ducat
     
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  26. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Duck ut you were closer than I was!

    Givin all my ducats to uncle sam, I'm free to do what I please little lady, I was born at night, but not last night baby.~Kid Rock~ wasting time
     
  27. silverblood

    silverblood Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I bought my first British Sovereigns and French Roosters today. Ordered them, actually, from PM during this morning's dip. These are my first European foreign coins. I can't wait to see what they look and feel like and how they compare to the Mexican peso coins I have. I saw the Ducats, but decided to learn a bit more about them before buying. Thanks to this thread I will probably be picking up a few.
     
  28. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Yep me too, the only time I saw ducats were in Colorado. Like mex gold I just don't run across them much here. Lots of sovereigns though!~:biggrin:
     
  29. TylerDurden

    TylerDurden Seeker Seeker

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    That's awesome...I used to love me some Kid Rock. Whenever I read anything about ducats, that song always pops in my head. :biggrin:
     
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  30. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Yep me too, obviously!~:banana:
     
  31. argentos

    argentos Former Boat Owner Gold Chaser

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    Going back to the pronunciation question, I never could fathom out those dictionary phonetic symbols that tell clever peeps how to pronounce words.

    I use a free online pronunciation dictionary like howjsay.com and it speaks to me! :biggrin:
     
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  32. Veli Hopea

    Veli Hopea New Member

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    A query to the Austrian Mint revealed few things about the Ducat.
    • Total weight: 3.4909 g (tolerance: +0.0105 g /-0.0035 g)
    • Diameter: 19.75 mm (NO tolerance – yea really, NO tolerance was given although that was particularly requested)
    Fineness and fine gold weight were not requested, but I got them from a brochure:
    • Fineness: 986 Au
    • Fine gold weight: 3.442 g
    I searched thickness, using Google:
    • Thickness: 0.8 mm (again no tolerance found anywhere)
    I did ringing measurements with few (five to be precise) Ducats:
    • The Ducat rings approximately at 3 kHz frequency.
    • The highest measured frequency was 3079 Hz.
    • The lowest measured frequency was 2885 Hz.
    • I noticed that the wider diameter the lower frequency, which is kind of obvious.
     
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  33. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    wow.........talk about dragging up a old thread :)
     
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  34. Veli Hopea

    Veli Hopea New Member

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    Old threads are often undervalued. Why start a new thread?
     
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  35. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    :) <<< as the smiley face implied in the previous comment.......nothing wrong with dragging up a old thread......just supized you read that far back....
     
  36. Veli Hopea

    Veli Hopea New Member

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    I don't understand why they do not declare any tolerance for diameter.
    A hypothetical example: What if someone calls them and asks about a Ducat that has been measured with a ruler and diameter was about 22 mm? Will they still answer "noooo tolerance"?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2016
  37. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    when no tolerance is given it is standard practice in the machinist world for the tolerance to be understood in this specific case as +/- .005mm (within rounding IE 50% of the next smaller unit)

    specific tolerance #s are only given when it is outside/inside the above parameters
     
  38. Veli Hopea

    Veli Hopea New Member

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    Yes I know the concept of standard tolerance. For those who do not, look at Wikipedia, for example.

    Austrian Mint declared the diameter of the One Ducat coin to be 19.75 mm. That may be an average number. I wonder what is the reason not to declare measured tolerance. Perhaps someone thought it would unnecessarily restrict the mint.
     
  39. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    do you understand the manufacturing process for these coins? if you do then you would understand that the diameter and thickness falls within standard tolerances but the critical tolerance is weight and has a precisely stated +/- tolerance
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2016
  40. Veli Hopea

    Veli Hopea New Member

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    In that case I have fake Ducats.
     

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