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Bitcoin Chart Fractal. $5000?

Discussion in 'Digital Currencies' started by Nomis Elpmis, Feb 24, 2016.



  1. Nomis Elpmis

    Nomis Elpmis Minimalist Silver Miner

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    Ha ha ha weeee. Back up again. Can't keep this 'virtual' currency down..:-)
    upload_2016-12-23_20-34-22.png
     
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  2. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    Why would anyone here at GIM think this thread was opened to convince anyone that bitcoin is a better long term investment than pm's ?
    The Chinese are hurting for cash and dumping their available into anything but the yuan.
    Just let it ride. What's the harm?
     
  3. Nomis Elpmis

    Nomis Elpmis Minimalist Silver Miner

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    Yes, bitcoin may be an useful indicator to further understand what is going on with the Chinese economy and their currency and therefore gain some kind of clue for what is going on in general.
     
  4. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Bitcoin is just like any other currency. You're speculating in a non-backed currency. It has value only because people think it does. As soon as they don't, it won't. Commodities, on the other hand, including and especially PM's, have value due to their intrinsic nature, not because anyone has confidence in them. Sure there can be some speculative value, but throughout history, they have always had a basic value that is convertible from weight into say a day(s) work. 15 years ago, bitcoin was worth $0. In a year, it could be worth $0. Just like the dollar, euro, ruble, etc.
     
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  5. Nomis Elpmis

    Nomis Elpmis Minimalist Silver Miner

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    I heard that NASA can scan asteroids to determine their composition as they pass by the earth. 'They' said a large multi ton asteroid passed by the earth made completely of Platinum. When we figure out how to capture and mine asteroids will precious metals retain their current value? Additionally, 'Nano' materials are being developed that take cheaper materials like carbon and improve on the properties of more expensive and rarer materials like precious metals. PM's also only have value because people think they do.
     
  6. Poorman

    Poorman Seeker

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    Let me introduce you to this moder invention called the PC.

    It contains many things.

    Hardware and software all make it work.

    Physical and non physical.

    Both make it work.


    Here are two physical components that aid in the structure on the PC:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'll let you figure out the value that adds to your virtual currency.
     
  7. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Wrong. Even if we could mine asteroids, the cost would be astronomical. What does a single in orbit space mission cost? Now what would it cost to fly hundreds of thousands of miles away? How long would it take? How would we mine the asteroid? How long would that take? What percent of the ore would even have precious metal? How much could the ship even hold? don't forget how dense gold is.

    Even if all this were possible, which it isn't today and won't be in our lifetimes, what would this cost per ounce? $1 billion? Probably way more.

    You're still not getting it. Metals have always been money.They are used in temples, for jewelry, for industry. They are of value because of their properties.

    In contrast, bitcoins and other fiats are worth nothing other than what they are believed to be worth. Even fiat used to at least be worth scrap paper value at minimum (you could always use it for fire kindling or toilet paper). Now however, fiat is 99% digital so it's not even got a floor value of scrap paper. Further a bitcoin doesn't even have that scrap paper floor value since it only exists in cyberspace.
     
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  8. Nomis Elpmis

    Nomis Elpmis Minimalist Silver Miner

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    What about the cost of the energy/electricity it cost to mine the Bitcoin? That exceeds the cost of the hardware and is part of why Bitcoins have been assigned value.
     
  9. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Same conversation over and over and over.

    Both PMs and Bitcoin are self contained stores of economic energy...both require resources to "mine" and both represent payment in full. It's incredible to me that it's gold/silver bugs that seem to be most stridently opposed to Bitcoin, despite the fact that they have very different functionality...they compliment one another quite well.
     
  10. Poorman

    Poorman Seeker

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    Speaking of over and over again....

    One thing that Bitcoiners forever leave out in conversations about Gold is that Bitcoin is dependent on Gold.

    Gold however is in no way shape or form dependent on Bitcoin.

    If Bitcoin is gone Gold is still there.

    If Gold is gone the very thought of Bitcoin literally vanishes.

    Very similar to the Sun and the moon.

    The Sun (Gold) breathes life into everything.

    The moon doesn't give off light it only reflects the light from the Sun.

    In this case though Bitcoin is actually the reflection of the moon in the water.

    They are not even comparable.

    Until I hear this argument accepted by Bitcoiners they are and will always be tulip farmers.

    Did you know that 90% of the Bitcoins ever mined reside in 1% of the Bitcoin addresses that have balances?
    https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html
     
  11. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    That doesn't mean it's worth anything. I can pay one man to dig a hole and another man to fill it in. That would cost a lot of money over time, but no value has been created.

    I can play video games all day with a lot of success in beating the enemy. that costs a lot of my time which is worth my wage rate, plus electricity and the cost of computers. Have I created any value?

    The argument you're proposing, that because something took energy to do, it created something of value is ridiculous.
     
  12. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Same can be said of digging up & refining minerals deposited in the Earth's crust by super novas.

    These things have value, merely because we all agree they have value.

    Again. All of this has been said repeatedly here. The majority of gold bugs never bend and see Bitcoin as a threat to their stash. They cheer when Bitcoin drops relative to fed funny munny and they whine and cry when Bitcoin acts like PMs SHOULD be acting in the face of all the uncertainty and "money" printing. "Strong dollar" excuses are just that...excuses and not even good ones. There's nothing strong about the US Dollar...it's just that the other fiat currencies are even crappier crap.

    Never fear, eventually there'll be a paper derivative of Bitcoin that bankster maggots can naked short sell into the market. It's just tougher to persuade Bitcoiners, because Bitcoin is already electronic. They'll have to come up with incentives to persuade idiots to trade their crap instead of the underlying asset. This isn't true of PMs where you constantly hear morons claiming they have gold/silver "exposure" because they bought a few cruddy shares of GLD/SLV. Suckers are born every minute.

    Choose physical PMs or choose Bitcoin...better still choose some of each. Above all choose something you actually own and not a bankster conjured derivative. Don't let anyone else store your PMs or your Bitcoins and you'll be just fine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
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  13. Nomis Elpmis

    Nomis Elpmis Minimalist Silver Miner

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    I can cash out my Bitcoin at anytime and deposit fund($) to my bank account. I'm currently up 70%.
    upload_2016-12-27_21-36-18.png
     
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  14. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Suggest you instead use your Bitcoin to incrementally move into PMs directly through the numerous PM dealers that accept Bitcoin. No sense creating more work than necessary for our beloved bankster class.
     
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  15. smilershouse

    smilershouse Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Started to look at BTC a month ago. 2010 5c per BTC. 2016 $900 per BTC. If there is one thing I am kicking myself for, is listening to my logical suspicions and not buying a $1000 worth. Or a months rent. Had I done I would now own 180 BTC worth $162,000. Like many whom are reading this as well as people I have spoken too. We all agree that our prejudices about BTC being a scam were wrong in 2010. And now we admit that our flawed logical decision back in 2010 has served us the financial punch that we deserved. Not that regret not holding 180 BTC at todays price, but how much more PM,s I could now buy for a simple $1000 wager 6 years ago. I could well be wrong. But is BTC really that immune from Govt, insider trading and very influential finanical figureheads? Notwithstanding do I wish to open up a can of worms here, but Rothschilds total worth is $500 trillion. What is in place to prevent massive pumper and dumpers using BTC in much the same way as the other derivative exchanges? As I stated, my only regret is settling with a $1000 of PM's when I could now be in a position to buy $160,000 worth. I still don't trust BTC or any of the other BitCoins on account that so much could go wrong. What I am concerned about is that BTC is of a notional value. With a simple click of a mouse people can buy and sell, pump and dump etc. A few EMP's or a terrible virus could wreak havoc on a system that is so vulnerable. I guess what I am coming to, is that when all is said and done and the world is all but a globe of nuclear dust,our PM's will always survive in the ground.


    SH
     
  16. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    No big difference between:
    A) Something that has been money since man has existed, has uses in jewelry, industry, medicine, etc., has worldwide acceptance as money
    B) Something that has been "money" for 6 years, has no purpose outside of that role, is one solar EMP away from being lost forever.

    I couldn't care less what bitcoin does. I don't cry or celebrate if it moves up or down. I don't see it as a threat to my stash. I do think those that are holding it long-term as lucky so far, but just like an unbacked fiat currency is not trustworthy to be worth anything in a year.

    I could say the same thing about many penny stocks, or an option on a stock. You could have bought $1000 in Countrywide put options a few years ago and done even better. You could have bet on an underdog sports team before the season started and made 100-1. Sure there have been some unlikely gambles that have paid off in life. Most fail though (obviously).

    No one knew about bitcoin in 6 years, yet some people are putting their undying trust in it. I wouldn't be surprised if its gone in 6 more years.

    To each his own.
     
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  17. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Again, nothing that hasn't been said over and over. Save perhaps for the fact that usually detractors can at least get the years right. Bitcoin's whitepaper was available in 2008 and the genesis block existed in January of 2009.

    The irrational EMP fearmongering is somewhat amusing and again betrays a lack of understanding re: blockchain technology. In order for Bitcoin to be "lost forever" as you put it, every single blockchain backup worldwide would have to be obliterated simultaneously. This includes offline backups. That's simply not going to happen unless the planet is destroyed.

    I'm a huge gold/silver bug. Love the stuff, but I won't allow that fact to blind me to reality. There are tremendous risks in the global economy at this time. Despite the turmoil of the past decade+ gold and silver act more like industrial metals than canaries in a coalmine. Heck silver hasn't even eclipsed its 1981 ATH in real dollar terms despite trillions in new currency "printing". Physical metals are completely shackled to a couple of counterfeit paper markets. That fraud is no longer a conspiracy theory...it's conspiracy fact, yet the theft continues unabated.

    Bitcoin does not suffer from this kind of bankster manipulation. When the cypress bail-ins occurred...Bitcoin did what gold SHOULD have done. In 2016 Bitcoin is up 126% vs the crappy USD even while we're told constantly that the almighty USD is SO STRONG!

    Trust it or don't trust it. Stack some Bitcoin or don't...I simply don't care what you do, but only a fool would fail to listen to what the Bitcoin market is screaming. This is now the canary in the coalmine.
     
  18. Poorman

    Poorman Seeker

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    Bitcoin is completely and utterly manipulated by high frequency trading professionals like that of Wall St.

    It is run by perception and gullible true believers.

    So you wanna know how Bitcoin pumps work?

    Example: Take a comet like this one--> Comet C/2012 S1 ( ISON )

    Hype it up as it goes perihelion (goes around the sun) and program your HFT bots to pull BTC bid/sell walls up exactly matching the light intensity curve of the comet.

    Whala you have a pump that people think is real and blessed by heaven above.

    Take the image:
    [​IMG]

    Now compare that to Bitcoin's "organic" blow off ATH at the end of November 2013.

    Overlay the price chart and light curve of this comet.

    Go ahead see how your destiny is scripted by Comets in the name of Pizza.



    So what of this pump you say at the end of 2016?

    Comet 45P/Honda-Mrkos-Pajdusakova (2016) light curve will be your guide.

    [​IMG]

    If you like scripted markets made by control freaks then by all means sign up for Bitcoin.

    They have your life packaged up all nice and neat in a box for you.

    I personally have had it up to here with all the innovation talk.

    Its a glorified database run by suckers that feel they are part of something big.

    Fact of the matter is that 90% of the Bitcoins reside in 1% of the Bitcoin addresses.

    Want to read more about the distribution go here:
    http://boards.4chan.org/biz/thread/1689488

    Want to get into the comet thing go here:
    http://boards.4chan.org/biz/thread/1690967

    Want to get into how BTC is about to have a rude awakening:
    http://boards.4chan.org/biz/thread/1685847

    Want to red pill yourself some more bring a tin foil hat and go here:
    http://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-713227.html

    Don't want to go to any of those places then take this and continue to support Bitcoin.

    [​IMG]

    Have you heard all this before?
     
  19. Poorman

    Poorman Seeker

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    An excerpt from http://lunaticoutpost.com/thread-713227.html

    May 13, 2015 (WIKILEAKS)

    https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/15589

    So here we are in May 2015 when the BTC price was low ($225 zone).

    Stalnaker sends an email to Podesta telling him that BTC could be useful to them and the price starts climbing back up a month or so later?

    Coincidence?

    I think not.

    The left is trying to usurp the purse strings when the economy collapses.
     
  20. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Your reading comprehension is bad. I never said it didn't exist. I said no one knew about it. Yes maybe 0.01% of the geek community knew about it.

    No. You need to study what a solar EMP would do to any computer systems. Even if some on the far side of the planet survived, people would wake up and see that their bitcoins were unusable for months...exactly when they needed them most. e.g. The US side of the earth gets a solar EMP. We have no computers left functioning. Hypothetically, suppose Europe still has some computers that have bitchains recrods working. How long would it take you to get access to your bitcoins and find someone to accept them in the US? Do you not believe that such an event would cripple the belief that bitcoin is a safe "investment"?

    You just spelled out the reason to hold metals. I don't need the daily affirmation of the upwards manipulated stock market to know I'm in the right instrument. If you need that, then of course metal isn't the right place for you. As your first sentence said, the world is in turmoil, poop could hit the fan at any moment. That is why I'm in metals. When it happens, metals will come through. Daily movements mean nothing to me as I have no intention of selling. If they dump it, I thank them for the sale and pick up a little more.

    It's been well-known for a handful of years, it's too early to say anything about how it performs in a crisis. Stocks are also going up, as is oil. Those two tend to do horribly in a crisis. You're basing your statement off 5 years of data. Ridiculous much?

    I don't. I don't mind or care if others do. It's a fun discussion. I thank you for your thoughts on the matter. I don't listen to a market that's 5 years old when it screams, just like I wouldn't take a 5 year old person screaming and making long-term intellectual decisions off that noise.
     
  21. Nomis Elpmis

    Nomis Elpmis Minimalist Silver Miner

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    Happy New Year!
    upload_2017-1-1_22-16-17.png
     
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  22. smilershouse

    smilershouse Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What was the economic cause for this spike over a period of 20mins?

    SH
     
  23. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    Since 93% of all Bitcoin trades originate from China, a guess would be
    that Chinese citizens are somewhat worried about further capital controls, devaluation
    of the Yuan and the general war on cash.
    It also appears that the Chinese government has looked into a crystal ball and seen the future.
    While continuing to try to control every aspect of their market their allowing more companies to accept Bitcoin as payment.
    If a Chinese bank ever allows any type of customer transaction Bitcoin will take off like crazy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2017
  24. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I can appreciate that you're actually spelling out what you dislike about Bitcoin, however there's absolutely nothing there I haven't heard from gold bugs over and over. You can find the very same points being covered numerous times on this very site if you search. Rabid gold bugs do not bend on the Bitcoin issue so I don't waste a bunch of time. If you don't like it, don't use it.

    I've already explained to you that Bitcoin is NOT 5 years old. I gave you precise dates and you chose to ignore them. Then you imply that my reading comprehension is lacking and go right on spewing this five year misinformation. Perhaps you'd not heard of Bitcoin in 2009, but many had. Certainly by 2010 and especially 2011 when silkroad was born Bitcoin had already made a splash. Bitcoin obviously has a far shorter history than gold or even fiat, but you're debasing your own arguments by repeatedly spewing false information.

    Price chart of Bitcoin going back to 2009.
    https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=all
     
  25. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That's actually not accurate. While it's true that nearly all MEASURABLE Bitcoin trading on stationary exchanges now occurs in China, Bitcoin is traded all over the globe through sites like localbitcoin, LibertyX, ATMs, Craigslist, etc.

    The US government has been pretending they're ignorant/indifferent to Bitcoin for years whilst simultaneously attacking Bitcoin from nearly every conceivable angle. Exchanges represent a juicy target and the US.inc has done what they do forcing US Bitcoiners underground.
     
  26. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    With the war on cash heating up, all countries in the world will eventually either force block chain transactions underground or completely embrace it.
    I'm guessing the later or they'll start to see the negatives.
     
  27. gabriel2005

    gabriel2005 New Member Seeker

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    There's this fabulous word......called RESEARCH.
    are you just following the baaaa-sheep or have you taken the initiative to study it?
    Hmmmmmmm
     
  28. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Sounds like you are following the baa-sheep if you think it's economically feasible or will be in this lifetime. Don't mistake science fiction with science fact.
     
  29. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Your reading comprehension is bad. I never said it didn't exist. I said no one knew about it. Yes maybe 0.01% of the geek community knew about it.
     
  30. Gun Ban Extremist

    Gun Ban Extremist Seeker Seeker

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    This looks like perfectly normal market action. No one's pumping anything, no siree...

    20170104_CMC.PNG
     
  31. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Cmon, don't you know Ethereum had a great earnings report?
     
  32. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    Not sure why anyone here would be upset with those that own a bitcoin ?
    Or an ethereum, for that matter.
    If they took their hard earned money and took the risk.
    I think lots of people here are going to be shocked at the wonderful things that 2017 offers.
    Btw, bitcoin is just a couple dollars away from its all time high.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  33. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    At the end of the 19th century, a sunspot fried all telegraph wires and Sounders. So what happens when one occurs now?
    That was 8 gauge wiring connected to Central offices. FRIED!!!
    As a craftsman/technician in the Central Office, I can testify to what sun activity can do to electronics. Some days we were told not to wire in circuits because of this.

    But now we have computers built with IC Circuits, with connections the width of a whisp of hair. Nothing to worry about.

    BTW, the sun is acting very strange lately. Try to Google "sun activity". Shit is going down!
     
  34. Gun Ban Extremist

    Gun Ban Extremist Seeker Seeker

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    Those who own none are upset with others, while those who own some are likely upset with themselves for not buying more. This is some major pumping action going on right now (up another $57 since last night).

    Of course, as before, it could crash at any time. Classic pattern repeating itself yet again...

    20170104_02_CMC.PNG
     
  35. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    I guess it comes down to when to get out?
    Now or wait a while?
    Come on....I can make just a couple dollars more... please (holding hands in a prayerful type way)
    ----------
    As far as sun spot activity, you better use the advice of Jim Sinclair.
    "Get everything in writing"
    Just because every pc fried in the world when it comes back up you still have your shares.
    Doomsday scenario is thinking about the great killshot solar flare.
    Generations would be lost.
    Most males on Earth would instantly be sterile for years.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  36. Gun Ban Extremist

    Gun Ban Extremist Seeker Seeker

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    That's a good question, but it's up another $32 in the last few hours... and ETH is up close to a full buck.

    20170104_03_CMC.PNG
     
  37. platinumdude

    platinumdude Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    But how is that dogcoin doing?
     
  38. Gun Ban Extremist

    Gun Ban Extremist Seeker Seeker

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    20170104_DGE_01.PNG
     
  39. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Not sure if this is referring to me or someone else. I'm not upset that someone made $ on ethereum. Just like it doesn't mater to me if someone made $ playing blackjack or buying call/put options or any other "investment".

    My only point is that bit coins are like musical chairs. As long as you get a chair then great, you can sell the empty bag to another "investor" and all is good. But at any point, someone may decide to open the bag and look inside.
     
  40. smilershouse

    smilershouse Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Where did those CDO' go?

    SH
     

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