1. Have a Great Weekend!!
    Dismiss Notice
  2. This Monday, Feb. 20, all U.S. banks and financial markets will be closed in observance of the Presidents Day,
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Week of 2/17/2017 Closing prices & Chg Over Last Wk---- Gold $1239.10-- Silver $18.03-- Oil $53.78-- USD $100.95 -- Based on near term futures contract--- At JMB Current price AGE 2017 $1304.51 (1), SAE $21.15 (20)

BitGold Lights Gold's Fire

Discussion in 'Digital Currencies' started by Scorpio, May 15, 2015.



  1. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    22,498
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    113
    BitGold Lights Gold's Fire

    Bob Moriarty
    Archives
    May 15, 2015

    In July of 2011 I took my niece to Colombia to visit a copper/gold project. She loved the country, found a boyfriend and started a business. The copper/gold company hired an idiot as a manager, he blew the company sky high and it faded into the sunset.

    I met an interesting young man on the trip, a kid really. He was 25 and managed money for himself. His family has money. When it came time for college for him they were prepared to fund any school he could get into. I figure he’s got an IQ in excess of 150. I’m in Mensa and he’s a whole bunch smarter than I am.

    He declined their offer and asked for the money in cash. He wanted to use it to trade in the market. And you may be thinking to yourself, “Yea right, 18-year-old kid starts investing in the market! And how did that work out for him?”

    You don’t want to know, as I said, his IQ is in excess of 150; he did really really really well. He was on the tour in 2011 because he was a major investor in the Colombian company. He saw the handwriting on the wall and bailed out before they tanked.

    We drove around the project for a couple of hours and were together in a vehicle going to and from Medellin where we were staying so we had a chance to talk. He had kind of a screwball idea for starting a company with a gold-based money system.

    He would solicit customers to deposit money. It will be converted at a favorable rate to gold and they can transfer gold in and out of the account and use a debit card for purchases. Instead of having your money in an account denominated in dollars or pounds or euros, your account would be denominated in gold. It’s like PayPal but using gold as a medium.

    His name was Roy Sebag. Actually it still is.

    As of May 13th 2015 BitGold went live and public. Many of the things they are doing are simply brilliant. Their symbol is XAU. That’s going to be easy to remember. They have an affiliate program so you are going to see banners for them all over the web. Everyone wants in on the action. The company did a money raise in February and another in April at $.90 a share. Sprott is a big investor.

    BitGold has just over 36 million shares outstanding. Roy Sebag is the majority shareholder with just over half the shares. His partner, Josh Crumb, owns 1.64 million shares. Each of them takes an annual salary of only $1. As far as I’m concerned, they are overpaid. They should make their money in stock appreciation.

    The stock opened at $2.50 on May 13th, dropped a little during the day and closed at $2.70. It opened at $3 on May 14th and closed for the day at $3.77, up 50% in two days. 100% of shareholders have made a profit. They are all happy.

    I always wondered about Bitcoin. I don’t know anyone who actually understood what it was other than it being the hula-hoop of the day. Bitcoin was a fad, not a real financial product that actually solved problems for people. It peaked in price in late November of 2013 and I said it was a top at the time.

    It was a pseudo currency not backed by anything and about as useful for transactions as shiny beads or bags of salt. It was worth only what some fool thought it was worth. I have never wondered how fools somehow parted with their money, that’s obvious. I always wondered how fools ever get in touch with their money in the first place. Bitcoin was a great way to separate fools and money. It was such a rip-off that even the DEA was stealing Bitcoins.

    Governments are each trying to outdo each other in stupidity lately. Otherwise seemingly intelligent people try to explain how you can spend yourself rich as a national policy. Austerity has been reworded into some kind of four-letter curse. The money you deposit in a bank is no longer yours; you are a creditor of the bank. With worldwide debt at $200 trillion we can be assured that there will be bank failures and bail-ins. Wave goodbye to your money when you take it to a bank.

    When I was studying economics we were taught that the way to get rich was to make more money than you spend. Now even countries believe they can borrow money without limit and are somehow better off. Banks want you to pay them when you loan them money. Give me $1,000 now and I’ll pay you $990 in a year and you take all the risk. What a great scam. Sign me up. Bonds pay a negative interest rate just as if countries don’t go bust.

    BitGold restores gold to it’s most real and most valuable function, that of a store of value. You deposit either money or gold. It belongs to you, you aren’t loaning it to anyone. You can take it out at any time or put it in at any time. You own it.

    I’m going to do a separate piece to explain BitGold. If you are not an American, you should sign up for an account. American financial rules mean American financial accounts are no longer welcome anywhere outside the US.

    If you are an investor you should consider buying the shares. BitGold Inc. is going to be the biggest thing in the financial world shortly. It is the future for both banking and gold. While the company has just over 36 million shares, the float is somewhere between 3.5 and 4 million shares so it will be volatile.

    Sign up here.


    I was an investor in Loma Vista in 2012 that did the RTO that became XAU. I have bought XAU shares on the open market. I am biased and you should do your own due diligence.

    ###

    Bob Moriarty
    President: 321gold
    Archives

    321gold Ltd

    http://www.321gold.com/editorials/moriarty/moriarty051515.html
     
  2. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    22,498
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    113
    BitGold Explained

    Bob Moriarty
    Archives
    May 15, 2015

    BitGold Inc. went public a couple of days ago on May 13, 2015. BitGold is their only product. BitGold is a Canadian company based in Toronto. You can sign up for an account here.

    Here are some answers you need to know to understand BitGold.

    BitGold is a financial platform where your money is denominated in gold. It’s like any other bank account in that you can deposit money that is converted at the current rate for gold and you can spend it in any currency or transfer it as gold.

    BitGold is not a pseudo currency or cloud currency. It is real gold stored in insured Brink’s depositories located in Zurich, Hong Kong, London, Singapore, Toronto or Dubai. It is 100% insured.

    The gold belongs to you. BitGold does not rehypothecate or otherwise pledge your gold for any reason at any time. BitGold does not hedge. It’s your gold.

    Think of BitGold as PayPal but denominated in grams of gold. You can transfer or receive BitGold with any other BitGold user. You can spend it anywhere.

    Due to American financial regulations, BitGold is not currently available to US residents.

    BitGold will be issuing Debit cards for BitGold account holders in the near future. While your account is in gold, you can spend money anywhere in the world in the local currency with the card.

    BitGold maintains a stock of gold in their own account. When a BitGold account holder wants to buy or sell gold, they buy or sell it to BitGold at the current price of gold. BitGold charges a 1% fee for either buying or selling gold. That’s how they make their money. For the account holder BitGold offers the lowest price to buy gold and the highest price to sell gold and 100% liquidity.

    BitGold account holders may deposit money into their account via Bank Wire transfers, credit card or debit cards, China Union Pay, Interac or SEPA.

    BitGold account holders may transfer money out of their account at any time based on the current price of gold. Should account holders want physical gold, they can take delivery in either 10-gram cubes or 1-kilo bars. There is a small, about $25 CAD redemption and mail fee for either the 10-gram cubes or 1-kilo bars.

    BitGold has no counterparty risk. You own it. It’s yours.

    There are no storage fees.

    There are no fees other than the 1% in and out fee and the $25 CAD fee for physical delivery.

    When the banking system crashes, your gold is safe. No bail-in possible.

    The safest way to own gold is to hold it in your greedy little mitts. BitGold is the 2nd safest way to own gold.

    Governments around the world have declared a war on cash. You have the benefit of having access to your money in the form of gold. You effectively have cash without having cash.

    You can sign up for an account here.

    BitGold
    XAU-V $3.77 (May 14, 2015)
    36.6 million shares
    BitGold website

    ###

    Bob Moriarty
    President: 321gold
    Archives

    321gold Ltd

    http://www.321gold.com/editorials/moriarty/moriarty051515b.html
     
    michael59 and GoldenPoet like this.
  3. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,530
    Likes Received:
    3,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So BitGold only works with government approval? I don't really understand or trust bitcoin either Bob, but it does actually work in the US's oppressive economic environment.
     
  4. Gun Ban Extremist

    Gun Ban Extremist Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Occupation:
    Investigator
    Location:
    Northwest
    Apparently so, at least according to the CEO: It's an "easy way to own and spend gold in a legal, transparent, and tax-compliant manner.”

    This whole thing is somewhat bizarre. They claim to use blockchain technology, yet without achieving the decentralized security properties of crypto-currencies. My best guess is that they simply use blockchains as their own internal ledger. After all, it's a perfectly fine technology for that, and there's no need to reinvent the wheel.

    Their (mis)appropriation of blockchain technology and the "Bit" in "BitGold" make it sound as though they're some sort of bitcoin successor backed by gold, as opposed to simply storing your gold in their vaults and keeping track of who has how much.
     
    solarion and GoldenPoet like this.
  5. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    22,498
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    113
    agreed, that is all they are really doing, with one caveat

    they are allowing you to make transactions against your savings,

    go to the gas station or the grocery store, and it depletes your gold holdings, then you can replenish

    sounds silly

    flip side, you have quite a bit of metals

    you want to do some deal, but do not want to part with your metals

    you loan yourself the dough, then you replenish as you can

    not sure they have the capability to do so, looks like it is straight depletion of your reserves + they control your reserves
     
    earplugs, Malus and GoldenPoet like this.
  6. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    99,141
    Likes Received:
    33,392
    Trophy Points:
    113
    BitGold: Great product, over-priced stock

    [​IMG]

    By: Steve Saville, The Speculative Investor


    - Posted Tuesday, 19 May 2015


    A popular view is that gold has no monetary role to play in a modern, technologically-advanced economy. This view is wrong in many ways, including that, thanks to technological advances, gold is now better suited to being money than it has ever been. This is because technology has eliminated the inconveniences that would otherwise limit gold’s usefulness as money, with BitGold being the latest evidence.

    In a TSI commentary back in 2010, here’s how I summarised the reason that gold is better suited to being money today than it ever has been in the past: “[The key is that] technology [now] allows gold ownership to simply and instantly be transferred without the need to physically move bullion. Almost all the monetary gold could remain locked in vaults, with ownership to a quantity of gold — anywhere from a tiny fraction of a gram to many kilograms, depending on what is being purchased — being effected electronically.” Previous attempts have been made to create platforms that enable gold to be a convenient medium of exchange, with ownership instantly transferred electronically when a transaction is done, but BitGold is the first attempt that stands a good chance of being successful.

    The choice of the name “BitGold” was obviously influenced by the growing popularity (and notoriety) of Bitcoin, but BitGold and Bitcoin have almost nothing in common aside from being ways to store purchasing power and make electronic payments outside the banking system. Importantly, BitGold doesn’t have Bitcoin’s flaws, the most serious of which is that a Bitcoin, like a dollar or a Yen or a Ruble, has no use outside of its role as a medium of exchange.

    Rather than being an electronic medium of exchange itself, BitGold is a platform for trading a substance (gold) that has historically been the world’s premier medium of exchange. Putting it another way, users of the BitGold system are not trading computer ‘bits’, they are trading ownership to specific pieces of physical gold stored in a vault.

    To be fair, Bitcoin has one significant advantage over BitGold. The beauty of Bitcoin is total decentralisation. There are no intermediaries. There is also no need to jump through the personal ID (Know Your Customer) hoops established by the banking system at the behest of government. With BitGold there are intermediaries (vaults and insurance companies), and all the usual banking-system requirements apply.

    As far as I can tell, there is no way to use technology to quickly/efficiently transfer ownership of gold without using intermediaries responsible for storing the gold and keeping it safe. On the plus side, with BitGold the storage is outside the banking system and there are several options regarding geographical location.

    I’m not going to explain all the benefits of BitGold and how it works, because that’s already been done in a number of places on the internet. For example, Bob Moriarty provides a good overview HERE. I like BitGold, the product, a lot, and will probably open an account in a couple of months if it operates smoothly during the intervening period. But BitGold, the stock, is a different kettle of fish.

    BitGold shares (TSXV: XAU) listed at the same time as the company opened its virtual doors to customers. This is strange. Normally, a company will have operating history before it lists on a stock exchange. Was it a deliberate ploy to float the company on the stock market before there were any hard data that could be used to value the shares? If so it worked, because the shares immediately attained what appears to be a very high valuation. I say “appears to be” in the previous sentence because, with no operating history to go by, it is impossible to even guesstimate what the company is worth. What I can do, however, is roughly determine the amount of success built into the current stock price.

    At last Friday’s closing price of C$4.14 and with around 37M shares outstanding, XAU’s market cap is C$153M. This equates to US$126M at the current exchange rate. How many users would BitGold need to justify this market cap?

    BitGold makes money on transaction volume — on the purchase/sale of gold. Specifically, it takes 1% of every purchase and every sale of gold made through the BitGold system. Users of the BitGold system are not charged anything for gold storage and insurance, meaning that all costs of running the system must come out of the aforementioned 1% and that whatever is left becomes BitGold’s gross profit. For the purposes of this exercise I’m going to ignore these costs and make the assumption that due to its strong growth potential the company is worth 10-times its annual sales revenue. Based on this assumption, the current market cap of US$126M would be justified by annual sales of roughly US$13M. To get $13M of sales, BitGold would need annual transaction volume of US$1.3B.

    Now, the company guesses that its average annual transaction volume per user will be $1000-$2000. If I divide this range into the $1.3B implied by the current market cap, I get a range of 650K-1.3M. In other words, this method of valuation suggests that the current share price is discounting a customer base in the 650K-1.3M range.

    As an aside, it is clear that BitGold will need a fairly high average transaction volume per user to be meaningfully profitable. However, it’s a good bet that many of the users will initially be ‘goldbugs’ who will use the service to make long-term investments in physical gold. Based on its current fee structure, BitGold would be more likely to lose money than make money from this type of customer.

    Taking another valuation approach, BitGold has been likened to PayPal so perhaps it would make sense to compare BitGold’s valuation to PayPal’s valuation. PayPal is apparently being valued at $84 per user, but there are three reasons — not even taking into account the fact that PayPal is a major success while BitGold’s success is not yet assured — that BitGold’s valuation should be significantly lower than PayPal’s. The first is that PayPal has no storage and inventory costs to absorb. The second is that PayPal is solely a vehicle for transferring a medium of exchange whereas many of BitGold’s customers will use the service for store-of-value purposes*. The third is that the BitGold service is not available to US citizens. I’ll therefore assume that BitGold’s per-user value is a little lower than PayPal’s.

    Assuming $70/user, BitGold’s current market cap implies a user base of 1.8M.

    Based on the valuation methods outlined above and the company’s own growth projections, it seems to me that if all goes well then BitGold could grow into its CURRENT market cap in 2-3 years. This means that great success has already been priced in, leaving plenty of risk and no valuation-related upside for new buyers of the shares. Of course, there will always be upside potential due to the pool of greater fools, especially considering that the supply of XAU shares is small at this time.

    The bottom line is that BitGold, to me, is like Amazon.com: I love the product, but hate the stock’s current valuation.

    *Gresham’s Law is an obstacle to BitGold’s profitability, in that the sort of people who would want to own physical gold would be more likely to spend their fiat currency than their gold. That is, they would tend to hoard their gold and spend their dollars, euros, etc., thus reducing BitGold’s revenue per user.


    http://tsi-blog.com/blog/blog-default/


    http://news.goldseek.com/SpeculativeInvestor/1432044360.php
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2016
    Montecristo and GoldenPoet like this.
  7. REO 54

    REO 54 Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    6,532
    Likes Received:
    4,619
    Trophy Points:
    113
    "Due to American financial regulations, BitGold is not currently available to US residents."

    And why is that? Where do even look for that info?
     
  8. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    99,141
    Likes Received:
    33,392
    Trophy Points:
    113
    BitGold disrupts financial services


    CEO.CA | May 20, 2015




    [​IMG]


    “The banks’ dominance in financial services is over unless interest rates rise.”

    This from Roy Sebag, a 29-year-old former hedge fund manager and the CEO of BitGold Inc ($XAU.V), a web-based payments and savings platform for gold that has taken the Canadian capital markets by storm in the past week.

    BitGold was structured less than a year ago after years of planning, investments and conceptual debates by its co-founders. The company hit the Venture 7 days ago and is already worth about C $240 million, based on a $6.68 share price Tuesday. Bitgold is roughly 51% owned by Mr. Sebag, and was financed most recently at 90 cents.

    BitGold’s public launch and stock market debut have exceeded all expectations, according to Mr. Sebag. Mr. Sebag and co-founder Josh Crumb, a former metals strategist with Goldman Sachs, founded the company not to get rich, they say, but to make gold useful again.

    “We don’t need every goldbug to adopt BitGold,” Mr. Crumb tells CEO.CA by phone. Instead, he says, “it’s about lowering transaction costs and maintaining purchasing power in the face of negative real interest rates policy everywhere”.

    “We need every person that gold could help their life. That’s every income class; gold is relevant to rich and poor, in every country. We need a new narrative focused on that, not on pulling out of society or fearing the government. I don’t think anyone else has figured out that yet, and I think that’s why we’re resonating well in the capital markets. Its an inclusive narrative and business, not the same old fear and greed.”

    Mr. Sebag believes 30-40% of BitGold’s customers are buying gold for the first time. Over 10,000 users joined the service in its first week, according to reports. “I wanted 50,000 users by the end of the year and we may have that by the end of summer,” Mr. Sebag said.

    I want to find out whether any of BitGold’s new users are making large deposits with the firm. Personally I deposited $1,000 for a little over 20.6459 grams of gold but BitGold’s not getting rich charging a standard 1% fee on my transaction. Sebag explains that it’s more about getting a small cut of frequent transactions — a strategy that helps Paypal rake in billions a quarter.

    The co-founders see significant potential for further disruption in the payments and savings space, and have established a clear first-mover advantage with the platform development and launch.

    If you break down a bank’s business, Sebag says, “a bank is savings, payments, lending, wealth management, pensions, and insurance. How is a bank able to get into all these horizontals? It was only because they paid interest on deposits. Banks have become vulnerable because they stopped paying interest. For us, we built a payments and savings platform, that’s done now. Now our job is to get users to adopt it, and grow. There’s a lot of opportunities, and hopefully we’ll see more Fintech businesses trying to improve services and help people prosper.”

    Despite hailing itself as a global platform, BitGold is still unavailable in the United States, and I ask whether BitGold has any plans to launch there.

    Mr. Sebag responded, “The biggest tail-risk would have been operating in the U.S., even though there’s no law that precludes us in the U.S. We want to see federal laws be legislated around a business like this. We don’t like the state-by-state approach. So long as we manage our Know Your Client and Anti-Money Laundering policies within guidelines approved by FINTRAC, and as long as we promote tax compliance, I think there’s no reason the banks, processors, or regulators wouldn’t want this.”

    BitGold’s share price soared Tuesday following the appointment of two well-respected technical advisors. Lots of good press for Bitgold and not much free trading stock, just 7.8 million of 37 million shares, has helped Bitgold stock (symbol $XAU.V) to soar in its first week of launch. Going forward, the market will focus on Bitgold’s monthly KPI (Key Performance Indicator) Reports, which Mr. Sebag hopes to begin publishing in mid June.

    Regarding BitGold’s strong debut as a public company, Sebag says the firm benefits from a unique story.
    “There’s been so many of the same types of companies listed on the TSX-V, where the only thing that allows you to discern them is their name, XYZ Metals or ZYX Metals… Look at a company like UrtheCast, that’s a great story.

    Look at the stock. That’s a very asymmetric option. Either they really will succeed in their unique satellite imagery, in which case this could be a multi-billion business, or they will fail. But that’s the type of equity that I would want to own, that’s how I have made money. Same with us, the plan is very ambitious.”

    BitGold has captured the zeitgeist of the stock market, which seems to be pricing a lot of success into the story. Based on my years of web development experience, there may be some operational kinks to be ironed out. Long term customer experience will ultimately decide the company’s fate. That said, I am excited to accept and use gold for the first time in my small business with Bitgold.

    Also on the fintech and payments front, sources tell us Mogo Finance Technology Inc., a Vancouver-based online lender, may go public in Canada as early as next month. Canaccord founder Peter Brown recently joined as Mogo’s chairman.

    There’s a lot more disruption coming in fintech. Get a free BitGold account for a glimpse at what’s next.




    https://youtu.be/gp5JCrSXkJY



    Discuss Bitgold with the CEO.CA community at chat.ceo.ca/XAU. There you can also subscribe for email updates, including free SEDI insider filing reports on the company.

    Important disclaimer: This is not a recommendation to buy or sell any security. Consult a licensed investment advisor and do your own due diligence, including independently verifying all information contained in this article, prior to making any investment decision; you are responsible for your own trades. At the time of writing, the author is long Bitgold stock as a speculation which makes him biased. The author reserves the right to change his position without notice to readers. Also note Bitgold provided CEO.CA partner site EnergyandGold.com with an affiliate link, which is used in this article.


    http://www.mining.com/web/bitgold-disrupts-financial-services/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2015
    GoldenPoet, tradeshack and REO 54 like this.
  9. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    43
  10. Someone_else

    Someone_else Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    1,457
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your gold is perfectly safe...
    Until it's not.
     
  11. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    43

    That's a very good point and the same obviously applies to fiat money (Your wealth is perfectly safe...
    Until it's not.). I don't see any reason not to trust BitGold Inc with my debit transactions if they ever decide to bring business to the states.
     
  12. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Will there be a bit silver?

    Can you hold silver at bit gold?
     
  13. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Could you use bit gold for trading gold? It says 1% transactions, but what are the true costs of buying and selling gold in your bitgoldaccount?

    Could you buy gold in the dips and sell on the peaks using your bitgold account? How would the costs compare with say bullionvault?
     
    GoldenPoet likes this.
  14. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    22,498
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    113
    GoldenPoet and Hunts1980 like this.
  15. motowngold

    motowngold New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Hunts1980, REO 54 and searcher like this.
  16. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
  17. motowngold

    motowngold New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I called GoldMoney this morning, and they told me that they offer products to US customers now, and plan to do so post merger as well. That is a huge fact since the market thinks Bitgold will NOT be available to US customers since it currently is not. It seems like that is about to change as well.

    Unfortunately for the time being, BitGold is halted so it cannot be bought, and who knows what it will open at?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=XAU.V
     
    GoldenPoet and Hunts1980 like this.
  18. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    So could someone explain a simple question for me please?

    With Goldmoney they used to be able to pay for things with goldgrams. You could send 3.4298 or whatever grams of gold to the recipient. Can you do this with BitGold? Or can you use that card to transfer fiat?
     
  19. motowngold

    motowngold New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    18
    This new article has links that explain quite a bit. The closest approximation of how it will work is Paypal but with the backing of gold. I know you can take delivery of the gold, but have not seen a way to transfer it from the Bitcoin website. When you transfer my understanding is you would convert from gold to fiat and pay.

    That said, we now have a merger. I believe from what I was told when I called GoldMoney today, is they will incorporate the GoldMoney functionality so, I think we will have to wait for further post merger news to be sure but my best guess for now is that we will have the best of both worlds from the 2 companies.

    Here is the new article
    http://www.321gold.com/editorials/moriarty/moriarty052215.html
     
    Hunts1980 likes this.
  20. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    43

    I know that:
    GoldMoney clients could only transfer gold between GoldMoney account holders. In 2012 GoldMoney decided to stop metal payments in all countries except Jersey, Channel Islands, where GoldMoney is registered and regulated by the Jersey Financial Services Commission. GoldMoney has stated that they plan to reinstate metal payments for customers in other countries in the future.


    I understand that:
    For a 1% commission, BitGold transfers the wealth and converts to / from the currency required. There's no charge if you're transferring gold to / from another account holder.
    There's no charge for leaving your gold vaulted.
     
    Hunts1980 likes this.
  21. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    There's no charge if you're transferring gold to / from another account holder.
    There's no charge for leaving your gold vaulted. This is better than an ETF, better than paypal and way better than unbacked crypto likt bitcoin.
     
    GoldenPoet likes this.
  22. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Its even better than bullionvault, because they charged storage fees. And BV charged more than 1% for commission.

    Whats the catch with bitgold, its sounds too good to be true?

    Im eagerly awaiting to hear how goldmoney merger will bring over the ability to pay using silvergrams.

    -

    My other question relates to accepting payments from customers who have never heard of bitgold, will it be as easy as them paying by normal credit card?
     
  23. Malus

    Malus Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    3,378
    Likes Received:
    2,796
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    irrelevant
    Location:
    In a world gone mad....
    So, all we done is added the word "gold" to the "bit/bite/coin" and the digital currency becomes all good. Really? Now, they want you to expose your gold holdings to them. Trust us......


    I always wondered about Bitcoin. I don’t know anyone who actually understood what it was other than it being the hula-hoop of the day. Bitcoin was a fad, not a real financial product that actually solved problems for people. It peaked in price in late November of 2013 and I said it was a top at the time.

    It was a pseudo currency not backed by anything and about as useful for transactions as shiny beads or bags of salt. It was worth only what some fool thought it was worth.



    Have we forgotten already? The cheerleaders/debates/holy grail savior of us all. Are we all fools to fall for the "next" one. But, but, this one mentions gold. Big whoopee. Its still digital and make believe with government controlling all transactions (you know legal/transparent sh*t, the things they expect us to do but not themselves). At least let us have time to forget Bitcoin/Litecoin/failcoin before trying to pull the wool over are eyes again......
     
    solarion and michael59 like this.
  24. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    43

    Have you read BitGold's Transparency web page?

    https://www.bitgold.com/transparency
     
  25. Malus

    Malus Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    3,378
    Likes Received:
    2,796
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    irrelevant
    Location:
    In a world gone mad....

    Guess my OS is too old. Can't get anywhere from that link. Oh well, guess I'll be left in the dust holding on to my barbarous relics instead of someone else holding on to it for me......

    "BitGold Inc. is going to be the biggest thing in the financial world shortly."

    Call me skeptical, but, how many times have we heard that saying ^^.
     
  26. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    22,498
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    113
    here you go Malus:

    https://www.bitgold.com/transparency
     
    Hunts1980 and Malus like this.
  27. Malus

    Malus Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    3,378
    Likes Received:
    2,796
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    irrelevant
    Location:
    In a world gone mad....
    Sounds to me like they are trying to convince me how trustworthy they are. Heard it before from every corp looking for donations.

    "Customer Agreement and Terms of Service unequivocally state that all customer assets are held by BitGold Inc. as bailee for the benefit of customers."


    Once again, who is holding my gold? Not me but someone else making promises on how secure/trustworthy they are as they ask for my wealth. Insurance is what? Pay me fiat if the unthinkable happens. Gee, where did my gold go and why am I left holding a handful of worthless ass wipe. Sounds like a new and improved version of Bitcoin except this has government/banker control written all over it.

    Sorry Scorp but I'm going into the future kicking and screaming against these fairy tale investment strategies......



    "Our patent-pending Aurum technology is directly integrated with the Vault Custodian. This allows for real-time "audits" of the gold in all vaults enforcing a reconciliation of all corresponding account holders and the allocated physical gold holdings vaulted with the Vault Custodian. Aurum distributes these records in three ways:"

    And this means what? Really, what does this say that should impress me. Sentences like this do not convince me of anything. "We have very smart people looking at records all day and matching names to accounts and then pass this info along". Thats suppose to make me feel more secure. Sounds like a bunch of really big words that don't accomplish much of importance.


    "As you can see, we have carefully designed the technology and organization to serve customers world-wide in a secure and legal manner. We have built this business to last for generations and look forward to empowering people with gold ownership."


    Gold that you will never see nor hold. In fact, gold that probably doesn't even exist. There is not enough gold in this world to go around, so will it be created out of thin air when demand exceeds available limits?
     
    solarion likes this.
  28. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    22,498
    Likes Received:
    23,380
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yep, far as I am concerned, matters little what they or their lawyers say,

    actions are where the rubber hits the road

    there are a lot of people that are using metal storage facilities now under others control, which is all this really is,
    just another version that everyone is going ape shit over,

    Sure it is safe, well protected from you or me,
     
  29. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,863
    Likes Received:
    1,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    20 years logging
    Location:
    on the low side of corporate Oregon
    I'm with Malus on this one.... I think as soon as you you use that card bammmm you are tracked and i don't care who you are because Dollars are for corporate use now, exclusively and bitgold being from canada is not corporate US.... What i haven't seen yet is what happens if I bring a bar of the stuff in and stash it there..... OK fine they take a knife and slice off a piece then i transfer the whole bar and they take another slice and this is something I should like and then they give me a card to make it easy-er for them to take more slices?

    Yep I am with Malus on this... just has gold in front of it.....
     
  30. GldGrl

    GldGrl Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Occupation:
    I write fiction.
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    HI, all,

    I've had a full holding with GoldMoney for three years. I have gold and silver in several of their overseas vaults amounting to about 30% of my stack. I have found GM to be an excellent caretaker of my precious metal; scrupulous, less premium than buying coins, easy to get on the phone, very responsive to email, and you can buy and sell into cash reserve in your holding 24/7. When I wanted physical, it was delivered to my door in 100gm argor bars in assay. Only the Swiss vault will do this at present, and they have the ability to send you 1000gm silver bars as well. To segregate your metal, choose from the listed bars and for a tiny fee, you can segregate your metal with your name/number engraved. I prefer to keep the metal allocated only so I can switch it to different vaults if i so wish. To go back to the delivery, I had 32 100gm bars delivered, then, 48 100gm bars delivered in assay, and this is now in the boat.
    See my avatar. That's the bar.

    As far as the worthless currency in exchange for p.m.:
    GM will buy your metal and wire your money in any of six or eight currencies.
    I opened an account at a brokerage (MS) that will accept Hong Kong dollars, for instance.

    Re: Goldbit
    This sounds fantastic to me.
    I hate that Americans are excluded, (and no, I didn't go for Bitcoin.)

    On the GM site, it says that Americans will be excluded from Goldbit "initially."
    I don't know how GM is going to get around the exclusion, but, if Yanks can be included and have the ability to swipe a card and spend their gold grams on gas or bread with a Goldbit card, or receive metal in little cubes at their front door, or receive cash in (name any) currency wired to their bank or brokerage, (possibly reset currency) IMHO this could be an excellent HEDGE against only having phys in your boat.

    I've got a call in to GoldMoney and will speak w/ them on Tuesday.
    :wave:
     
  31. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2014
    Messages:
    4,863
    Likes Received:
    1,859
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    20 years logging
    Location:
    on the low side of corporate Oregon
    It is a law here that anything too do with dollars then the IRS can access or tax the bank-holing company er what ever..... I don't know exactly the wording but If this goldbit want's prying eyes that are just revenuers to have a look see then what am I to complain or think about as I don't have a pot to piss in anyway or a window to throw it out of. So It is not a problem that we are excluded by virtue of us just being us, it is those pesky revenuers, the lookey-loo's they don't want... so how they rectify that IDK, spose they will just have to make peace with themselves.

    I like the idea of the holding of the gold and the way to move it, I really do....but as soon as I seen that card part, well that's when I balked.... You see to me it is better to ship the gold as payment and keep the transaction away from those prying eyes that determine how they are going to screw you when just for some reason the digit $ is used which gives them access.... just my opinion, just mine.
     
  32. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I'm going to try and order some of those gold cubes 10 gram, they look cool for $25
     
  33. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I still don't fully understand, is it a one off $25 charge no matter how many grams of gold you want to take out of your vault? Also the delivery charges are not clear?
     
  34. GldGrl

    GldGrl Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    31
    Trophy Points:
    13
    Occupation:
    I write fiction.
    Location:
    NY State, USA
    Interestingly, my accountant insisted on filing an F-Bar (whatever that is) with my income tax. GoldMoney said, we're not your financial manager, but we set this up as "Holdings" as in we are holding your metal, and not "account," deliberately. They also do not hold the money in a financial institution, so, therefore that would also seem to disqualify filing. but my accountant, a conservative guy, said 'you don't want to be penalized for not filing,' so i did it.
    the ounces in the boat are stlll only my business.
    Then, i saw a simon black sovereign man saying you have to file F-bar with GoldMoney, so, I'm glad I did what accountant said.
    If someone knows what the deal is with filing and BV maybe you could contribute here.

    again, i have had nothing but great exp. with GoldMoney. both buying and selling in digit grams and receiving physical in a tradeable form.
    :wave:
     
  35. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I've been experimenting sending some gold grams back and for with friends. It's amazing, it really is free, a and free storage. And so easy. I love dealing with money instead of fiat currency.

    What will be great is when silver grams start being spent and earned instead of fiat units. Brilliant for international trade, no exchange fees.

    But the answer is, knee most in physical withdrawn and in your own hands, just keep a little in digital form for living
     
    earplugs and tradeshack like this.
  36. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Prior to Roosevelt's gold confiscation, the USA government was storing and minting gold while only charging 3.25% for distribution ($20 Double Eagle = .9675 ounce gold). BitGold charges 1% in/out exchange fees except for member to member transactions which are free as the bullion doesn't move from their vault. A difference between the Bitgold and the mint is that digital gold transactions usually won't deliver.

    It seems this could be very profitable as even member to non-member transaction often won't move any bullion.....By my own guesstimate: BitGold will have its own pool of currencies and gold to balance transactions through-out the day. At the end of each day it will use one Brinks shipment or delivery to bring the pool of assets back into balance. Much like mutual funds do with cash and stocks.

    This can be a great value to all the illegal's working in the US who send their wealth home. I wonder if today they can open their account in Mexico for this purpose?
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
    earplugs and Hunts1980 like this.
  37. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    It's great value for all international trade, I bet PayPal are shaking in their boots.
     
    GoldenPoet likes this.
  38. Gun Ban Extremist

    Gun Ban Extremist Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    187
    Likes Received:
    98
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Occupation:
    Investigator
    Location:
    Northwest
    I doubt this and similar platforms will take off if we have many more days like today. It's an insult on top of injury to be charged transaction fees on top of your losses in the metal.
     
  39. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

    Joined:
    May 16, 2015
    Messages:
    291
    Likes Received:
    85
    Trophy Points:
    28
    The bottom is in, up and away from here, plus there are no fees as long as you stay away from fiat. This encourages people to deal in gold and not ever transfer back to fiat. Just charge gold for services and accept gold as payment. If there is something you want to buy then talk your seller into accepting gold not fiat, thi is how it wil spread.

    There is no point having etf s anymore, you may as well have no storage fees and the ability to accept gold as payment and the ability to spend gold instead of fiat
     
    michael59 likes this.
  40. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    2,530
    Likes Received:
    3,771
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As long as the paper price of gold sets the price of real gold it can be printed up and dumped on the market.

    Frankly I prefer bitcoin. At least the .gov had to steal that to dump it on the market and drag the price down. Plus bitcoin doesn't require any middle men at all to trust.
     
    TimoneX likes this.

Share This Page