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BitGold Lights Gold's Fire

Discussion in 'Digital Currencies' started by Scorpio, May 15, 2015.



  1. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    in that you miss the point, without electronic connection, kibbles are nothing except a piece of paper in your hand.

    no they don't, they sit there and waste away as purchasing power declines on conversion over time.

    which is immaterial if they change the rules and disallow conversion,
    regardless, many have been forced to give up their intel to save their hides as it were, so thru force they acquire what is needed to crack this supposed 'secret'

    misinformation, no

    objective view of it, maybe

    besides, what is the objective of the crypto currency? A alternative? To what?

    You convert your cash/fiat dollars/pesos whatever to crypto, great! now what?

    you cannot invest it, you cannot purchase basic needs, etc, it just sits there losing value until you convert it into something usable
     
  2. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    so let's get real simple,

    what problem does a crypto like bitcoin solve?
     
  3. motowngold

    motowngold New Member

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    I never did the bitcoin thing, but what I like that is different about Bitgold is I have the option to convert to a tangible at any time of my choice. Back to the original question you posed in a simple answer. I like that I can store purchasing power and pay for things all outside the Fed, Bank of America, Visa, etc. system, coupled with the choice of tangibility.
     
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  4. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Abosolutely true...mostly. There are physical bitcoins, but they're not very popular.

    Bitcoin has certainly declined in value relative to fiat over the last couple years, but so have PMs. No idea where the bottom is in any of them.

    People convert cryptos to and from cash and PMs everyday without using exchanges, but yes exchanges provide a central point for .gov mobsters to attack, just as gold vaults provide a central point for government to seize. Tyrannical government thugs are going to do bad things. They've done bad things to everything that has threatened their fiat monopoly.

    Ultimately...fiat, but it is in its infancy and time will tell where it goes.

    Gold and silver aren't usable, but you can convert cryptos into that and you can most definitely invest it.

    https://www.havelockinvestments.com/

    There are also cryptos that directly bear interest. As far as purchasing basic needs using cryptos without converting to and from fiat the options are growing steadily.

    http://www.coindesk.com/information/what-can-you-buy-with-bitcoins/
     
  5. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I believe that bitcoin gives people a measure of financial freedom that wouldn't exist otherwise. For instance, the .gov mobsters in the US made it illegal to fund online poker sites with fiat, but if one is so inclined they can play online poker with cryptos and not run afoul of the law, at least for now. If one doesn't trust the stock market due to .gov intervention or HF trading then there are crypto currency alternatives available. I favor more freedom over less, so even if I never avail myself of crypto services, I like that there are alternatives because of this technology.
     
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  6. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    the alternative isn't gold and silver,

    they argue their point is against the elephant in the room, normal fiats

    6 companies accept kibbles and bits worldwide, they are a non-issue

    the only reason to hold kibbles and bits now is either greed thru greater fool theory, or for international transactions

    one is gambling, and the other is simply not material to the avg joe,

    which takes us right back to the original question, why bother? One answer was honest, the 'cool' factor, but other than that.............

    let's go into the why retailers & manufacturers are slow to adapt,

    I am a retailer, and I received 100 bitcoins yesterday from transactions,

    This morning I get up and bitcoin is down $10, so now I have a currency risk of $1000 on the overnight, not even time to get them converted

    So now a business owner, in addition to all his other risks, has to also add a currency risk to his profit profile,

    Until it is mature and stabilized, then their is too much risk for greater acceptance
     
  7. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

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    Copper is a monetary metal, but not a monetary precious metal.
    As I've said, I don't particularly like bitgold only, I think this is the first of many backed crypto currencies, just like there were many unbacked crypto like bit,lite and dogecoin etc.

    Bitgold may have first mover advantage like Bitcoin did with the unbacked currencies.

    All I'm saying is I prefer a backed by bullion crypto to unbacked crypto. I think Mr market will agree with me, time will tell.
     
  8. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

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    You hit the nail on the head!
     
  9. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

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    The argument that compared to world population now, there is not enough available silver left to be used as a monetary system is just as stupid as saying there is not enough bitcoin's to be used as a monetary system.
    The bitcoin supply is capped at 21million bitcoins. Well say there was about 21million Kilos of silver left in the available supply. Then each kilo could be split up into grams and milligrams or even Micrograms 0.01mg of silver just like bitcoins are divided up.

    How can you value 21 million bitcoins? They are not backed by anything, there is no measuring stick. They could be backed by turnips or anything, just have something there so that you have something to go on. Anything apart from the monetary precious metals will have a hard job gaining peoples confidence. Now, how can you value 21 million Kilos of silver or gold? Well you need to look at the supply demand fundamentals? How much many kilos of silver or gold are left in the worlds available supply?
    Interestingly 21 Million Kilos of silver is about 675 Million troy ounces. Which some estimate to be about the real number of available ounces left on earth. There are millions of tons of gold building up and up around the world, the supply is going up every year. This number of around 21 million kilos of silver is going down every year as more silver is demanded than is supplied. But unlike bitcoins the amount of available silver can be flexible as the value goes up more silver can be reclaimed from landfill.
    One of the most bullish arguments bitcoin proponents make is the limited supply, and the more people start using it the higher the value of each unit. This is more true for silver.
     
  10. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    TLDR; silver > bitcoin because inflation. The answer IYO is bitcoin backed by silver. Swell.
     
  11. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Nope. the answer is silver.
     
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  12. smartypants

    smartypants Seeker

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  13. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

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    The answer is silver as a worlds monetary system. Mostly physical money exchanging hands in transactions, but a digital way to transfer ownership of physical grams of silver in a vault can be used AS WELL as physical silver transactions. There is a risk with the crypto part of it, but more convenience just using your card or phone to go beep and type in your pin, just as we do with our cards using fiat today.
     
  14. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Love silver, it's actually my favorite substance in the known universe...well, after boobies anyway. I've purchased lots of silver...sadly it all sank beneath the waves, but I'm hoping to buy some moar some day.

    Silver's strength(and weakness) is that it's a physical item and sucks for conducting transactions at distance. FRNs have precisely the same problem and dealing with banks to convert them into bank credit to conduct business online is not very appealing, so we need a solution and that solution, at least for me, cannot include someone else holding on to my money(PMs) for me.
     
  15. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

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    No, bitcoin is cashless. There is no way you can hand over grams of bitcoin. You cant donate bitcoins at church by dropping them in the collection box and be assured they cant be traced to you.
     
  16. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Whose vault would that be and why would I put MY silver in it if it's not MY vault?
     
  17. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    DAFUQ?

    K, trying to ignore this post...due to the assumption that the poster was participating in some kind of chemical experiment at the time. Any of that you'd like to rephrase bruh? Please?

    Just a few churches that accept bitcoin donations:

    http://www.coindesk.com/saint-johns-becomes-worlds-first-catholic-church-accept-bitcoin-donations/
    This was nearly two years ago.

    https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/kentucky-church-now-accepting-bitcoin/
    https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/churches-starting-evangelize-bitcoin/
    https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Donation-accepting_organizations_and_projects
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2015
  18. smartypants

    smartypants Seeker

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    This is all wrong. There is no connection between a bitcoin address and a person [ID], but you can trace the life of the bitcoin.
     
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  19. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

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    If it's all wrong and Bitcoin is not cashless, how can you have Bitcoin cash? How can you pay for things in Bitcoin easily without the internet? You can't.

    You can only do this with gold and silver coins.
     
  20. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    There are physical bitcoins as mentioned earlier in this very thread. I can provide you pictures upon request or you can do 1.3 seconds of research...perhaps?

    ...and gold and silver bars, and copper coins, and paper currency, and liquid tide laundry detergent, and beaver pelts, and etc.

    Gold and silver are the best forms of money IMO, but they're most definitely not the only possible forms of money.

    ...but don't mind me and my crazy logic arguments, continue ranting.

    Hunts1980, any chance you'll explain why you keep spewing misinformation, getting called on it, and then just rolling along like it didn't happen?

     
  21. Hunts1980

    Hunts1980 Banned

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    I don't think I'm the one ranting here. We are in agreement that real things are better suited as use for money. The free market chooses gold, silver and copper over laundry detergent and the other things you mentioned.

    We all know of those plastic physical bitcoins, oh please what kind of value do they contain in and of themselves? Do you really think they could be a world monetary system that people will have confidence in?

    I know some here love Bitcoin, let's just agree to disagree. I will never choose unbacked unreal when there is a choice of backed by real bullion. It the difference between nothing and something.
     
  22. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Gold and silver are AWESOME for storing wealth and could potentially be AWESOME for conducting local face to face transactions if the .gov wasn't hell bent on forcing everyone to use their phunny munny. I'm all for ditching FRNs and replacing them with honest money. However gold and silver suck at conducting business over vast distances, for that we need something else. Sticking your gold and silver in someone else's vault and using bankster credits is not a solution. At all. You never ever address this issue, you just ignore it.

    "People" have confidence in fiat currency and it's complete crap. The vast majority of Amerikan "people" have no interest in owning physical gold and silver bullion, which is unfortunate. BTW there are many many examples of physical bitcoins made out of gold and silver bullion.

    Gold and silver in someone else's vault is nothing. A "solution" that has people sticking their PMs in someone else's vault to enable convenient transactions is precisely how we got where we are...or have you never heard of a gold or silver certificate before?

    ...about that misinformation problem you seem to have? No comment then?
     
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  23. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    There's no way I'd advocate trusting BitGold or anyone else to hold your entire precious metal fortune but, I can't see the sense in not allowing BitGold to be the medium of exchange instead of the Federal Reserve Bank corporation. Starting with income, it seems preferable to be paid in BitGold rather than fractional reserve notes as: MasterCard/Visa bank credits, PayPal or anything backed by FRNs. The petrodollar's days are numbered and depending upon FRN's will leave you poor and isolated.

    We need competing and logical alternatives for transactions.
     
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  24. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    Update from BitGold:

    "US citizens can now create a free BitGold account within minutes and have instant access to gold. With a BitGold account users are able to purchase gold within 1% of the official market price and store it for free in one of many Brink’s locations around the world. At this time US users will not be able to send or receive gold payments on the platform, but we look forward to offering this and additional features in the future."
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  25. motowngold

    motowngold New Member

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    BitGold Announces Platform Launch in the United States
    http://ir.bitgold.com/investors/pre...form-Launch-in-the-United-States/default.aspx

    Here is a couple of relative links with some info.

    Bullish view from Morris Hubbartt
    BitGold with a bullish wedge
    http://www.superforcesignals.com/video/2015june25bitgold/2015june25bitgold.html


    Alasdair MacLeod about Greece, the metals, BitGold and more
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTLBugQs_jg


    Why BitGold? by Mike Shedlock

    "I encourage everyone to Sign Up for a BitGold Account. I have done so myself.
    Promote gold!
    Transactions in gold and settlement in gold, in real time are now possible."

    Another interesting read about BitGold:
    http://www.safehaven.com/article/38087/bitgold-now-available-in-us-why-bitgold
     
  26. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    I received notification today that bank accounts with Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Citi, US Bank, USAA, Fidelity, Charles Schwab, Capital One and even American Express can be linked to your BitGold account for deposits into BitGold and redemptions back to your bank account.

    The BitGold debit card is now offered to US customers. Two documents proving identification must be uploaded during the online application process.


    My BitGold debit card is finally in process!!!:applause_smiley:
     
  27. DonShimoda

    DonShimoda Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Yes saw Mish's article yesterday......have some physical but this might be an aside to that for convenience sake .......anyone with any concerns?
     
  28. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    Panel Discussion with Roy Sebag, Josh Crumb:

    http://www.gowebcasting.com/events/precious-metals-summit-conferences-llc/2015/11/03/gold-2-0-gold-s-role-in-fintech-the-future-of-money/play/stream/16335


    This is an excellent presentation that explains how the company is proving Gold is Money. Some of the key words and phrases mentioned are:

    Viral adoption
    Removing friction
    Inside the regulatory system / outside the banking system
    Digital transfer of title
    Neutral commodity money
    Intrinsic value
    Decentralized ledger
    Open up the technology and let people build on it


    BitGold.jpg



    If you "Like" me and want to open a BitGold account then, please use this link and we'll both get .25 grams of pure gold free!


    BitGold.com/r/cUQUhm



    .
     
  29. Silvertoothtiger

    Silvertoothtiger Seeker Seeker

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    If you don't hold tithe you don't own it.

    I would rather an etc than bitgold, at least you are a little bit better protected with etfs
     
  30. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    BitGold's primary function is to provide a payment system. Gold will be used as money for only a millisecond to complete the transaction. If your more comfortable with fiat money then, you can have your favorite fiat on balance just like with the banking system.


    The advantage for you with BitGold will be lower transaction cost.
     
  31. earplugs

    earplugs Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Not sure if it's already mentioned but they will not take gold eagles, only 99.9 and higher gold. USA gold eagles is contaminated with base crap.
     
  32. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    Alexander Soros and Bitgold

    Yeah, right

    Ain't going to happen, no matter how much you promise I'll make
    You can Keep It

    Thanks, NO
     
  33. FunnyMoney

    FunnyMoney Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Back in the GIM1 days you would have gotten about 40 thanks for that post at least. Actually, sorry, it's been so long, the forum software didn't have thanks feature, or at least the earlier years didn't. At least that's how I remember it. Don't know if you were around then, maybe you remember better. Guess the years just going by and by. But at least you probably heard, the hundreds of thousands of posts lost an all.

    Oh, so you answered your own questions anyway. And about long and short distances - the solution is simple. Fed Ex style companies will move thing quite well for you. Companies just like BitGold could cover the extra long distance payments for you. It's also a boost for escrow businesses. Still, the fees would eventually go below 1% in an efficient system regardless of distance. The long distant transaction question is where you see a problem, but that's been a problem since ancient time. But in today's world the problem is quite mitigated with the use of global escrow type companies which could facilitate a transaction in minutes where in ancient times those transaction could take months. So today, the ability to use honest mediums could be actually easier.

    Fees would be 0% of course for in-person or "at the counter" transactions, where you would reach into your pocket and buy a car with gold coins or some groceries with silver ones.

    Anyway, yes, you are correct, if you don't hear the musical pings of silver coinage as people walk down a busy street then you know it's a slippery slope from there. It's been a half century since silver was removed worldwide and nearly 100 years since gold had any real usage in coinage. What a huge mistake those 2 events were.

    Regardless, it was bound to happen ever since the bankers took majority control of the govt and full control of banking systems shortly after the nation was recovering from civil war. Now things are really bad and past the point of no return. Slavery or worse is most likely on the horizon. It's just a matter of when.

    There's a good news thread here on GIM2, we didn't have one of those on GIM1. The Internet being new and free at the time, I think the theory, or rather the hope was the forum would just keep growing.
     
  34. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    .


    BitGold is making progress towards providing payment services to Americans. Members from Texas, Colorado and Ohio now have member to member payment access. I understand this to mean that if you're a BitGold account holder from one of those states, I can buy your products or services and pay you with a transfer of Gold Bits to your account without a service charge since I'm in Texas.

    Awesome!



    .
     
  35. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    If you don't hold it, you don't own it.
    SLV, GLD, Bitgold, purpose is to redirect wealth away from PM purchases and to dilute the law of supply and demand.
    If you don't hold it, you don't own it.
     
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  36. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    uh-huh.

    Those US dollars in your Kentucky business checking account ain't golden either. But you'll soon be able to use your fiat or gold bits in a BitGold account to buy gold or silver numismatics from me if you would like. Until then, "if you don't hold it, you don't own it".



    .
     
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  37. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Can't he just convert his bank credit directly into numismatics? What added utility is bitgold adding to this equation?
     
  38. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    Sure he can. And if he uses the corporations paper money to buy locally, he can avoid the obvious transaction fees incurred with online payments.


    The utility being developed by BG is online payments. I consider it competitive and compare it to PayPail who charges its members 2.9% for payment transactions. I believe you and I will soon be able to settle our internet trades immediately without fees using member services provided by BitGold.
     
  39. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That utility already exists though, it's not added value.

    Guess I'll never understand the appeal of this BG thing. Converting fiat and/or gold in hand into gold(held by someone else) to enable utility you already have seems like the financial equivalent of chasing your own tail...but at least you get to pay a small fee for the privilege of doing what you can already do. Weird.
     
  40. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    Where? It certainly doesn't exist with the No. 1 payment processor.

    I believe the 1% fee for converting a corporation's paper to gold is a wash both when the gold is purchased with a fiat cash-back card and again when the account is used to pay another BG member.



    I guess I'll never understand the rational in disparaging the use of gold as money while hoarding the metal in preparation for the day when it is... used as money?



    .
     

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