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CANtainer Camp

Discussion in 'Survival (Preps & Homestead)' started by hoarder, Sep 19, 2014.



  1. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Sport......your making that way to hard......i would just go inside and screw the wood from the inside out in two or 3 places to hold it.....then go outside and screw it up everyplace else......then go back and take the inside screws out and run screws from the outside back in the same holes....that would help cure a lot of possible fit issues (you can see how hoarder did it with some jigs from the pole/n/jack picture also)


    Hoarder.....where the ribs dont touch are you...leaving it open or shimming it?

    :afraid:and whats up with the brown screw on the red metal?........the cure for that is take a piece of styrofoam and stick screws in it with head exposed and spray paint them a day or two ahead of time:cheerful:(sorry i couldnt resist)
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2014
  2. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    Now ya tell me! Good idea, I'll do the rest that way.
    Leaving it open. I'm only screwing every other outside rib and it's strong enough to climb on. Also want to point out that if a board has any warp, holes and screws can be strategically placed to unwarp it. I did that on the headers.

    Actually those are some green screws I had lying around. I'll have to paint the can green to match them.
     
  3. argentos

    argentos Former Boat Owner Gold Chaser

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    Cunning devil that Ttazzman!

    jumpinghappy2.gif
     
  4. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    learn a lot of unique ways to do things when you build things by yourself a lot.......my current project is 3000sq foot barn addition....built all by myself 95% other than the gal sometimes fetches me things and takes pictures.....all repurposed/old stock materials except the posts cost is going to be .75c a sq/ft....even have to figure ways to measure with one person..started wall framing today...(retirement breeds many projects)(sorry for dumping a pic on your thread Hoarder will remove post if you want)
     

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  5. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    That's what you need in Missouri, someplace to get out of the rain and keep equipment dry. Just in case this morphs into a barn thread, I'll just have to post pics of the two container barns I built...one in Montana and one in Texas:
     

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  6. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Those are some very nice structures......would be intresting to understand how the one with a loft is framed...
     
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  7. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    I got a load of cees and zees delivered for $1600. I'm probably already over your $0.75 a square foot. The 6" cee rafters are on 48" centers. Pitch is 8 in 12.
     
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  8. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    .75c a foot is a result of a large scrap pile and craigslist work......best hit was the 24ga roofing came from a boat dock builder for 25c a foot......good place to look for old sheets because when they rebuild they have to demo by hand over the water and it makes $ sense for them to treat them gently for salvage this guy had over 2k sheets in various colors and condition, existing screw holes were 8' o/c paint was chaulky but other than that in perfect condition and 35' long...
     
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  9. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    I built a jamb for a heavy duty commercial door I bought used. The holes in the side of the jamb are where I recessed and welded 1/2" nuts to attach security bars from the inside. I purchased a roll of ceramic wool insulation from ebay and this will fit inside the woodstove support box to protect the cieling. It's wrapped around a piece of thin sheet aluminum to keep it in shape as a unit so it can be removed if neccessary. I guesstimate that it will do everything class A double wall chimney pipe will do.
     

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  10. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    you have a lot of confidence-welding those hinges in (i always need shims/spacers and weatherstriping)......you have the chimney heat problem covered in spades!!


    and looking up at those barns.....4/12 is pretty much my limit on metal roofs these days...
     
  11. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    I cut holes in the frame and tacked the hinges on from behind, then removed pins and welded solid. I did shim the door for future installation of weatherstripping.
    I had help....young help. The zee purlins provide a pretty good foothold. Those 35' 24 guage panels you hoisted were probably more difficult.
     
  12. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    they were tough (heavy) ......but i rigged up a 2x12x 20' in a teeter-toter configuration on my tractor loader (loader wouldn't lift high enough to do it flat)....one at a time...got them on the existing roof....then i used my boom man lift up between the purlins to move them around...my roof was flat enough and the steel purlins were slippery enough to move them around decent (did it on some calm days for sure)....


    FWIW......since all the sheets were used i had to cut every one and was dreading the job.....knowing what a job it would be to do the cutting (i have power nibblers/schears/abrasives etc) i thought i would take a chance and went and got a harbor freight double cut saw on sale .....it works well ..its noisy...tosses lots of metal chips...little hard to guide with no shoe on it....but it cut those 24ga panels like butter........
     
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  13. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    The pics didn't come out too well, here's the window frames and door jamb tacked in place. Fitting was a bit tedious. I'll come back and skip weld them some more with the flux core welder and then primer and caulk. Note window hinge tubes and bolt receptacles for the covers.
     

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  14. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    that looks pretty good......your fitting is damn good for what materials you were working with....

    Love the welder setups!!! ....full size stick...and a suitcase wire feed....thats pretty much my home setup except my my stick welder/genny isnt near that nice(im jealous)....that wire feeder is the exact right tool for the job though..

    what did you cut your holes with (torch?) ?
     
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  15. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    Yes, I torched the openings. The wire feed is a Hobart 125 and it's a sorry POS. The gas stick welder is old as dirt...almost as old as me. It has an old 2 cyl Wisconsin and generator winding start using 24 volts. The 120 VAC output doesn't work anymore, the transformer is rusted bad. I have $650 bucks tied up in it. I had to have a gas welder to plow snow (I'm off grid). You can't plow 2 miles of dirt road all winter without having to weld something. Personally, I'd rather have an antique Lincoln SA200 Pipeliner with the trusty Continental F163 flathead engine. :D
     

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  16. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    my suitcase is a 110v clarke 130en.....had it for years no issues burns the heck outa flux core really like it on light stuff....on the other hand my big one is a old beatup multiquip acx-170s 3600rpm gas welder/gen...........I guess they beat nothing!!!.........like you i need to sell it off and find me a old jewel like a pipeliner..
     
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  17. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    I insulated the back of the woodstove with an inch of ceramic wool and a 14 guage plate cover. Uninsulated woodstoves require a lot of clearance to the wall which would have put the stove in the middle of the hallway. The tube in the back is for outside air intake. I built a spark arrestor/raincap out of scrap pieces lying around. The total cost of this woodstove including firebrick, steel, welding rods, gasoline, insulation, chimney system and paint will be just under $300.
     

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  18. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    When installing doors and windows, take into consideration that the corrugations of the walls are on 11 1/16" centers. This complicates things a bit. You want the door and window openings to fall on the outside corrugation flats. That means ideally the openings will be approximately 11". 22", 33", 44", 55" wide give or take 2" If the sides of the openings do not fall within these parameters, fitting, welding and finishing will take more work. My windows are 44" wide plus 1" tubing = 46", which worked fine. The door OTOH was 36" wide (I had it lying around so I used it) and it was a pain to fit. Ideally I would use a 32" exterior door.
    Some people think that cutting doors and windows in these structures significantly reduces strength and could cause them to kink when loading/on off trailers. Consider that a 40' can is designed to carry a cargo of 60,000 pounds. As long as the openings are small and framed in steel tubing which is welded to the walls, I don't think there will be a problem. I body slammed the walls after framing holes and they are more rigid than before cutting.


    COST EFFECTIVENESS OF CONTAINER HOMES

    If doing this was cost-effective, more people would be doing it. Part of being a perfectionist is to realize that no project is perfect if it isn't cost-effective. You don't want to build something and realize later that it cost more than having purchased something else and has less resale value than what you have in it. A high cube like mine cost $12 a square foot delivered in my area. In some areas it may be as low as $8 for the same can. Eight bucks a square foot is not really chump change. For example a local Amish pole barn buider does barns turnkey for that price not including slab.
    An internet search for "shipping container homes" will bring up lots of architectural porn of multiple cans stacked in contemporary fashion with large sliding glass windows, sides cut out and so on. From a standpoint of cost-effectiveness, probably 100% of those kinds of structures did not benefit anyone but the architects ego.

    Lets examine where the value in cans lies: Portability, security, strength.

    Portability: If you weld cans together permanently, they are no longer portable and thus that aspect of their value is gone forever.

    Security: If you cut openings for windows and do not add security bars or covers, or flimsy outside doors which can be knocked over in one swift kick, the security aspect of the can's value is gone.

    Strength: If you cut a side wall completely out, there is little to hold the roof up other than the square tube rail. If you cut a giant hole for a sliding glass door, again the rail is unsupported.

    My project, although of limited aethetic value falls within the narrow parameters of cost-effectiveness and is probably the most practical way to use these cans for residences. As I stated before, they are better-suited to barn building.

    Don't build something you will regret.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
  19. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Hoarder, thanks I am following closely. I had some questions about how practical this is, you answered them in your last post. Everything you wrote about the "cons" addressed the same problems I thought about.

    Great work, by the way. Much beyond my fabrication skills. I would be more prone to building a masonry or stone structure, it is more in line with my skill set.
     
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  20. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    That would likely be worth more when it's done. The fabrication hurdle is a major one.
    If I can talk people out of doing this it would be just as valuable as suggesting how to do it. :cool:
     
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  21. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    most people wont have your equipment and field fabrication skills so it would be easy to talk them out of it.........i am looking forward to the stove completion especially how you tackle the door and its issues....
     
  22. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    Someone without welding/fab skills would have to have an aquaintance who does or it would be prohibitively expensive. Even a shade tree wannabe fabricator would have to have at least $1500 to $2000 to do what I did with this can.

    The two issues I see is that the door is not gasketed and that I may have to fab an air intake later. The door is a tight fit but whether it remains tight after heating up and cooling down a dozen times remains to be seen. The outside air intake is just 1 1/2" square tubing so I anticipate having to leave the door open a while to get a fire started. The door lifts right out just like a storebought stove so modifying it later is no big deal.

    The latch was easy. I had made a wedge spot behind the facing before I welded that on and I just used bar and pipe to make the handle.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
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  23. Hystckndle

    Hystckndle Daguerreotype Fanatic Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Cool thread Hoarder, thanks
     
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  24. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    that stove is looking good.......seems like everyone i have known that built wood stoves had door issues wharpage/sealing related......on your door im sure you have a idea that will work but it looks like a piece of bar stock around the inside would stiffen it up and give you a gasket stop for your door seal.....

    the air flow for it doesnt look like stoves around here so i am curious how you finish it out(ie those boxes in a earlier post etc)...:cheerful:i reserve the right to ask questions later :cheerful:
     
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  25. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    I agree 100% .....no doom n gloom.......do-it-yourself....beat the system....idea sharing.....innovative thinking........these "fun" threads are why i come to GIM....
     
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  26. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    I have an old homemade woodstove in my shop that was done that way, if I understand your thinking. They welded barstock to the inside of the door. I don't know how they kept the door from becoming concave on that side but it seals pretty good. My door is only 3/16 plate. I was thinking if it warped I could replace it with 5/16 plate...
     
  27. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    the last homeaide one i saw had a door that was built like a cake pan with a lip all the way around....and the hole in the stove had a lip all the way around it......i have no clue if it was overkill or not..if the stove hole needs stiffening you can always weld a stiffner on the inside later of course...
     
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  28. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    If I weld a stiffener later won't it warp?
     
  29. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    in my opinion now or later isnt going to make a difference on weld warpage.....the only way to control weld warpage will be to do short stitch welds alternately spaced around it keeping heat to a minimum and the stiffener would need to have enough section strength to resist warping when stitch welded the "hard way".......i think if it were mine i would probably weld something on now while it is still clean and easy to get to unless you think it will be fine the way it is......it might be just fine with a rope gasket im not sure how much variation they will seal though..

    i was looking for examples online but everything has a cast door and frame...
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
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  30. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    Thanks, Ttazzman. That makes sense. I might try that but without a rope gasket. I've never seen a homemade stove with a gasket. I think a gasket needs to reside in a groove or it will eventually come loose.
     
  31. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    i think something along this general premise might work for you...excuse my crayola...tossing out thoughts
     

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  32. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    Nice drawing. If I were to do it that way, it best should have been planned from the begining because at this point it would require welding from the inside of the box and the angle iron would make the opening even smaller.
    I think the main advantage of a modern airtight stove is that with the door closed, the only way air can get in is through the outside air system which is routed through preheat tubing high in the firebox and then injected at strategic points. Cold air thus cannot encounter the flame and the higher burn temps men less creosote and less wood used. That type of stove has been around about 20 years or less.
    At 320 square feet, I don't think I need that level of efficiency. As it is, the worst that could happen is that the door could warp to a point that it allows too much air in, causing the fire to burn too quickly instead of glowing all night. Then by morning interior temps would be lower.
    I think I'll just weld bar stock to the inside of the door to prevent warpage and not worry about minor leakage.
    Here is a pic of my homemade shop stove which I bought used and heated my shop the last 5 winters. It's just 1/4" plate and 3/8" round bar:
     

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  33. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    i imagine your spot on.......i am not familure with the style of stove you describe (thus my curiosity about your completed build) .........the stoves i am familure with work similar to the older one your showing
     
  34. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    I beefed up the door with 3/8 bar stock. It did warp it 3/32" even though I only tacked and skipped. Pics should clarify the support box/chimney system. I think I will go back and cut about 6" off the chimney pipe because the uninsulated portion will likely accumulate creosote.
    The support box extends through the roof almost 2". If it seeps snow, I will simply raise it another 4" by welding some 1/8" x 4" flat on top of it.
     

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  35. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    3/32 is quite a bit for no more welding than you did (musta got it pretty hot)...........here is a way to take it out but if you haven't done this process before would be good to practice on something expendable first.....

    using your door as a example go to the opposite side of the door as the welds ...with a oxyacetylene torch using a rosebud or cutting head heat a circle to a dark orange red (not cherry red or white red) just enough red to be able to see it.....in the example of the door the dark red spot should be about a nickle in size across from each weld.....then while still red quench and cool the metal with cold water......the heating and the quenching must be on the side you want to shrink.....i use a dawn detergent bottle with the squirt top to hold the water...

    used this process for years the thicker the metal the easier it is other than it taking a lot more heat to get it red...

    Or........a hammer....


    I am finally understanding the chimney box function and purpose.......we don't have to do a box like that here usually here it is a triple wall pipe up a couple of feet at the most....is your extra extension due to snow depths?
     
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  36. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    Where do you buy a chimney brush for a 4 1/2" chimney? You make your own. A length of 3/8" bar stock with some chain welded to one end will chuck into my cordless drill and knock the daylights out of any creosote. My cost: $3.
     

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  37. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    Thanks. Sounds simple enough. I don't have a rosebud but I have a larger sized welding tip that should do. I had heard about people quenching loader buckets that sagged, but didn't know exactly how they did it. If I do this will the door turn out wavy? Should I do it one weld at a time or try to do all at once?
    Triple wall is a thing of the past (caused creosote buildup), it's all super insulated double wall now, which is very expensive. I just made my own double wall pipe. The part sticking up above the box will be shortened so the spark arrestor sits directly on the box.
    The object is to keep the smoke as hot as possible until it exits. Cold spots cause creosote buildup.
     
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  38. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    its good to do a little bit of practice first.......just like the welds pulled one way at each weld spot you want to pull it back....one at a time.....might only have to do every other weld ....do one and strait edge it...and so on...

    the larger diameter the red spot before you quench it the more it will pull back...small spot small pull...larger more ...etc....areas can be redone but the effect is less each time...

    its exactly the technique used to straiten loader buckets...

    if you get heavy handed yes you could get wavey........its much easier to gage on heavyer metal.....your in a borderline metal thickness...

    a common problem is getting the steel to hot its better to error to the cool side

    i hope this is helpful ..if not on the door on something in the future..
     
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  39. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    Well I did the quench thing..twice. No results at all. I must have erred on the cool side. I got the weld spots orange but 2 seconds after I took the torch off those spots, the color dissapeared. Not hot enough? Now that I have done this twice will I still be able to get results with more heat? I shortened the stack, put in the firebrick and fired her up:
     

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  40. argentos

    argentos Former Boat Owner Gold Chaser

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    wow_001.gif
     
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