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Coins or currency for saving

Discussion in 'Survival (Preps & Homestead)' started by gb1980, Apr 13, 2010.



  1. gb1980

    gb1980 New Member

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    What should I save more of--coins or currency? I have both. Should I only keep currency of $50.00 bills and below or $100.00's and below or
    some combo of each. Then if a combo, what % would you recommend?

    Thank you in advance.
     
  2. fasTT

    fasTT Seeker Seeker

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    Firstly, which country are you in?

    Nickels, and pennies are gimme's, as they are worth face value or more right now in commodity value.

    I think the rule is to have smaller denomination bills readily available as you do not want to count on having change available.
     
  3. Bossman

    Bossman New Member

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    Almost any country's coins will be worth more than the currency when it is finally devalued all the way. Metal is worth more than paper.
     
  4. Oldmansmith

    Oldmansmith Midas Member Midas Member

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    There is some thought that coins, being issued by the treasury, may hold value when the FRN and FED have collapsed. I don't know, but it makes me think that I should cash in the 5K I have in 20's buried in the ground and hoard rolls of quarters instead. Just in case.
     
  5. AMforPM

    AMforPM Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    It would take so many coins to buy anything if things stay at their current prices or higher that I keep some folding money in various size bills. I don't spend under $100 at the grocery store very often.

    The coins I keep are pre 64 junk silver in case silver becomes a trade medium in a total fiat collapse.

    But my cash stash in FRNs is only a modest amount to get through a short bank holiday, evacuation, or the like. I don't want to hold many FRNs. So it isn't 6 months of ordinary expenses or anything. Though if we ate mostly stored food and cut way back on other ordinary bills citing the bank holiday then it might last 3 to 6 months. Like in a bank holiday, I expect the phone company would leave your service on pending a government bank solution. So I would not carry them my FRNs right away.
     
  6. wallew

    wallew Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Cover it TWO ways. Junk silver coins of US manufacture (pre-64). These will have INTRINSIC value because of the silver content. IF SHTF, gold and silver WILL rise in value well ahead of any inflation (check your history if you doubt this). If gold hits $5k an oz or above, silver should be around $100 an oz.

    So, junk silver as they will be recognized fairly quickly in a deteriorating economic situation as 'real money'. BUT also having other coins might be helpful.

    BUSINESS WILL GO ON. For a while, vendors will start by making change. In the long run, you may or MAY NOT get change back. But early on vendors will WANT your change and small bills while they still have the ability to value them. When they lose ALL value, your junk silver is your fall back position.

    Other PM's ? Sure. Different sizes, different metals, etc.

    Ammo could also be a good sales item. But know your customer. Say like the guy who OWNS the gun shop in your town and deal ONLY directly with the owner only and ONLY take something of equal value that YOU BOTH agree upon pricing of BOTH items.

    I'm not even going to ATTEMPT to guess what companies who have not been paid in either 30 - 90 days will or will not continue to provide service while waiting on the government to get it's act together to pass down their decisions from 'on high'...
     
  7. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Gold Pirate Gold Chaser

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    I try to keep about three months worth of cash on hand. In a real emergency that probably would only last about a month due mostly to scarcity and inflated prices. I have all denominations up to $100 FRNs. I don't expect most people will understand the use of real money, (gold & silver), for a while. By the time most figure that out it will be too late for them. I don't think we have much to worry about there not being any food, we just may not be able to afford to buy it. Gas I expect to about triple in the near future, all a plan by the elite to make people ready to go to war with Iran. Once they do that they will be able to take down the dollar and install a global money system. Call me paranoid, I keep my ears open and I see things that are going this way faster than I would have believed possible.
     
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  8. goldie40

    goldie40 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I keep about 2 thou in 20s,10s,5s and singles, everything else is junk silver, eagles.nickles and copper pennies, about 800. worth of them. I figure if the SHTF and if i needed anything and it cost less than a hundred, i have the change as most people will not have anything. If a top round cost 5 bucks a pound and all i had was hundreds and the store couldn't change it, i either buy a 100 worth of meat or nothing, or i buy all he has and he keeps the change. When things get so bad that our money isn't worth much, stores will not have a lot of cash on hand as the hold ups will be a daily thing and 100 dollar bills will not be a good thing to bargin with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  9. Nickelless

    Nickelless If coffee is gold, I own Fort Knox Midas Member

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    I've got $100 bags of nickels for the long-term, covering both base metal content and face value, and I've got boxes of quarters for my short-term finances. I'd rather keep boxes of quarters and spend them $10 at a time and make them a pain in the butt for anyone to steal (since FRNs are so much easier to steal). I deposit unopened rolls or boxes of quarters in the bank whenever I need to pay bills and keep almost no money in the bank, so I can just grab the money and run if I have to--no worries about bank holidays.

    As for my PM stash, I buy all the silver I can in whatever size I can find and/or afford it. I'll take ASE's, pre-'65 coins, bars, rounds, whatever as long as it's silver. I'm not picky.
     
  10. gb1980

    gb1980 New Member

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    Thanks to all. Much to think about. I may do some of all of the above.
     
  11. AMforPM

    AMforPM Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Though off topic, I'd add that food already in the house tops buying power in an emergency where shelves might empty. OTOH, some well concealed cash or trade goods might be good for local food products. ie, cover many bases as others suggest.

    A garden and some hens rock too.
     
  12. diversified2

    diversified2 Seeker Seeker

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    I would definately hold some domestic coin if we go the way of Argentina it could come in handy...
    http://www.slate.com/id/2205635/
    Yes, We Have No Monedas!Inside the world's most annoying economic crisis.
    By Joe KeohanePosted Wednesday, Dec. 3, 2008, at 6:58 AM ET
    It was no surprise that the cab driver tried to rip us off. We're in Buenos Aires, Argentina, after all, and we'd made the rookie error of requesting a vague destination instead of giving a precise address—naturally he interpreted this as a license to take us from La Boca to the Plaza de Mayo by way of southern Nicaragua. What we hadn't expected was the predicament the driver found himself in when it came time to pay. The fare had come to 14 pesos and 6 centavos. I proffered a 20-peso note (worth about $6.70), and he handed back 50 centavos, suggesting that I was going to be shorted 44 centavos. Then he realized that continuing on this course would require him to give me two 2-peso notes and a 1-peso coin. He sighed dramatically and gave me three 2-peso notes instead. Factoring in the 50 centavos he had already handed over, this effectively reduced the fare to 13.50 pesos, which, for reasons I'll get to in a moment, is actually more than 14.50 pesos.
    Welcome to the world's strangest economic crisis. Argentina in general—and Buenos Aires in particular—is presently in the grip of a moneda, or coin, shortage. Everywhere you look, there are signs reading, "NO HAY MONEDAS." As a result, vendors here are more likely to decline to sell you something than to cough up any of their increasingly precious coins in change. I've tried to buy a 2-peso candy bar with a 5-peso note only to be refused, suggesting that the 2-peso sale is worth less to the vendor than the 1-peso coin he would be forced to give me in change. When my wife went to buy a 10-trip subway pass, which retails for 9 pesos, she offered a 20-peso note and received 12 pesos in bills as change. This is commonplace—a daily, if not hourly, occurrence. It's taken for granted that the peso coin is more valuable than the 2-peso note.
    No one can say what's causing this absurd situation. The government accuses Argentines of hoarding coins, which is true, at least to some extent. When even the most insignificant purchase requires the same order of planning and precision as a long-range missile strike, you can hardly blame people for keeping a jar of monedas safe at home. The people, in turn, fault the government for not minting enough coins. In fact, the nation's central bank has produced a record number of monedas this year, and the problem has gotten even worse. Everyone blames the bus companies, whose buses accept only monedas. (Buenos Aires' 140-plus bus routes are run by a number of separate, private companies.) These companies, exploiting a loophole in the law, run side businesses that will exchange clients' bills for monedas for a 3 percent service fee. This is legal, but the business community also routinely complains of being forced into the clutches of a thriving moneda black market—run by the local mob, or the bus companies, or both—in which coins sell for a premium of between 5 percent and 10 percent. The bus companies steadfastly deny any involvement in this racket, but their claims were undercut by the discovery of a hoard of 13 million coins, amounting to 5 million pesos, in one company's warehouse this October.
    Those coins were confiscated, but the 5 million pesos were returned to the company—in bills—which could be seen as a fine of sorts. The government has also passed laws requiring banks to provide customers with 100 pesos' worth of change on demand. (The banks ignored this because, they said, their precious monedas would then wind up on the black market.) The government recently lowered that figure to 20 pesos (which the banks still ignore) and demanded that the bus lines adopt a pass system, like the subway's, to keep more change in circulation. (All this did was create a stalemate over who would pay for the new equipment.)
     
  13. Fatboy

    Fatboy Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Not that I disagree with the theory behind storing some coins but that article was from 2008. Do you (or anyone else) know the current status there?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  14. elroy

    elroy Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I am currently holding $xxx cash, xxx ozs of silver rounds, xxx ozs of gold, and $xxx face of 90%.

    I feel that this is exactly the amount I would need if xxx happened.
     
  15. <===Foolsgold

    <===Foolsgold Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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    If you are worried about TSHTF then saving clad coins or FRN's sounds silly to me. No more than a couple thousand.

    Buy more junk silver if you have so much cash.
     
  16. beercritic

    beercritic Seeker Seeker

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    Pre '82 pennies are worth more than twice face value... Nickles are currently over 6 cents in value. IMO either would be a much safer haven than FRNs, when the devaluation comes. Oh look, it's already in progress.
     
  17. Nickelless

    Nickelless If coffee is gold, I own Fort Knox Midas Member

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    I'm only holding my reserve cash in clad coins because it's more of a pain in the butt (for thieves) than FRNs. Ever try carrying $1,000 worth of quarters?
     
  18. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Gold Pirate Gold Chaser

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    My thoughts on hold frns or clad for that matter is holding it is owning it, while trusting it to the bank is giving the govn't a way to steal it. If they do go to global currency, I would think, at least for a while, we will have a way to turn it in, but I could be wrong, we're probably doomed.
     
  19. diversified2

    diversified2 Seeker Seeker

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    My point regarding Argentina was that, for a while at least, it would have been handy to have had some clad coins
    on hand not that you should hoard a huge pile of them. I just take the change I receive and throw it in a jar then roll it up and put it away when the jar gets full. It's still worth just fiat $ except the nickels and pre pennies but some could come in handy if we go the way of Argentina...
     
  20. mqracing

    mqracing New Member

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    Downside of all that heft is "you moving it from point A to B" to make a transaction happen. Part of the reason that buying junk silver (unless your buying and transporting in person) doesn't
    make so much sense is if you have to pay for delivery.

    For a short term emergency fund (short of the poop hitting the fan) I purchased from the US Mint a bunch of their "circulating direct ship" dollar coins--- several presidents available, an early
    Sacagewea, and the 2010 Native American as still avialable. You buy them at face value and the mint ships them for free all nicely wrapped up in rolls and twenty rolls per box. These are sold
    in $500 increments.

    My thinking and the reason I've put some of my stash in this form is;

    1) instead of carrying paper which is realtively fragile--- the coins are physically much more durable.

    2) a dollar is a small increment... but not rediculously small like a nickel, dime or quarter. Hence more
    space efficient to store and easier to handle and transport.

    3) these won't burn so easy, won't degrade from wear so easy--- so better in my mind than paper

    4) I keep my limited "wealth" out of the direct banking system.

    this stash is not in lieu of PM's--- but in addition to. It's the first things I would try to use in a bad
    situation.... and short of really wretched conditions.... it gives me the ability to have a trading medium
    that is well known (a dollar is a dollar--- might only buy X number of eggs---- but it would still be the
    dominant language of trade).
     
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  21. Gordon Gekko

    Gordon Gekko Seeker Seeker

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    I am saving both currency and coin (in my case, gold and silver bullion). Currently, my weighting is probably 55% precious metals and 45% in currency (USD). I will probably get this ratio a little bit more skewed to the precious metals side...just waiting for some kind of meaningful pullback in the POG or the POS. I like to have a decent amount of currency on hand, quite simply, because the future is tough to forecast. Yes, inflationary pressures, especially a few years out, look very strong. However, you just never know. There is always the opportunity that we fall into a deflationary depression. You've got to hedge your bets whereas your outcome isn't necessarily simply the binary losing a lot in value or gaining a lot.
     
  22. diversified2

    diversified2 Seeker Seeker

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    What an excellent idea mqracing, I never thought of doing that....AARRGGHH!!!!!!! I already have $500 in dimes, nickels and quarters all rolled up =( .... Where have you been all my life???? In the future please post any great ideas right away okay?:biggrin:
     
  23. diversified2

    diversified2 Seeker Seeker

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  24. <===Foolsgold

    <===Foolsgold Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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  25. mqracing

    mqracing New Member

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    Brain fade... your right. Darn.... I bought enough of these I should not have made that error. See if I get it right this time.... each box has ten rolls and each roll
    has twenty five one dollar coins.

    One other note.... see the nice plastic trays in the pictures? NONE of the ones I've gotten are in the plastic trays and none of them have been supplied with
    US MINT wrappers. All of mine to date have come with String Co. wrappers (I think that's their name) and all the rolls were just loose in the box.

    Which was one ounce disappointing.... but none-the-less kinda of a good deal and a good way to save some money and have it liquid without the
    moolah taking up too, too much space.

    And you can get several dead presidents, the 2001 Sacagewea and the 2010 Native American. Charge'em to your credit card and you actually will
    make money on the deal if your cc has a "rewards" or "cash back" program.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  26. S.McDuck

    S.McDuck Banned

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    that's because you ordered the bags. the whole idea is these coins are supposed to be circulated, that's why they are cheaper to begin with
     
  27. diversified2

    diversified2 Seeker Seeker

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    Thanks for the heads up about the packaging... less disappointing when you know what to expect.Thank you for the brilliant idea MCQ:bussi:
     
  28. mqracing

    mqracing New Member

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    the coins we're talking about are not available in the traditional cloth bags... as the mint pictures show.... these coins are supplied in wrappers and boxed up for shipping.

    You can get further information on these coins and the program at;

    http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wc...storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&identifier=8100
     
  29. bushman

    bushman New Member

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    That's how I play it too. Just enough cash to buy up fuel and extra food on my way out and some cash to "pay off" anyone who gets in my way. Fuel is the key resource imo, I keep quite a few empty drums on hand beside the trailer. Failure of Electronic payment will make money scarse in an instant and anyone with a few grand in cash will be most welcome I am sure.
     
  30. S.McDuck

    S.McDuck Banned

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    that's what i was talkiing about, I guess i never noticed they were claiming they were rolled, i figured they'd be circulated and no guarantees on scratches, etc.
     
  31. S.McDuck

    S.McDuck Banned

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    vending machine areas are great places to get dollar coins.
    you can cash up to 20 dollar bills to dollar coins, no one sees you. You end up getting presidential coins, sacajeweas, susan B's. couldn't get more convenient.
     
  32. diversified2

    diversified2 Seeker Seeker

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    The Mint makes them and sells them to the public at face value with the intent that you will release them into circulation so it matters not if they have scratches as they are not numismatic;)
     
  33. minimus

    minimus Guest

    I keep all metallic coins for SHTF.

    In an inflationary currency devaluation the face value on paper notes will get a zero knocked off while the coins do not devalue.

    In a deflationary bust all currency becomes scarce, all buys more goods and services.

    During the 2000 Argentina bust their nickel coin was the most valued currency.

    2008 was only two years ago, few things have changed in Argentina since.
     
  34. ToBeSelfEvident

    ToBeSelfEvident Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I have a few rolls of the dollar coins, but I wonder how recognizable they would actually be if TSHTF. Nobody knows what they are when I use them now.
     
  35. pay dirt

    pay dirt Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Yes most people are not used to them like the 1 dollar bill. Even Kennedy halves are not recognized very much. Need to realize that average person is not educated in coins and metals like many here. In an immediate survival scenario cash will be king, not junk silver but the cotton scrap that people see every day. People go to get thier money out of a bank they dont take imaginary digital dollars but paper FRN. The banks dont have a fraction of FRN on reserve to digital dollars. It costs money to make coins and paper notes and nothing to type on a computer screen. Imagine if all banks froze up and people actually took out every paper dollar from the banks, they would still be rare to the amount of goods they will buy. Until the Fed starts really printing bigger notes and getting them to the public which would take weeks if not months in any sort of supply, paper money is the next step back in the fiat cycle. It goes digital, plastic, paper, clad coin, copper, silver then gold.
     
  36. Oldmansmith

    Oldmansmith Midas Member Midas Member

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    Well I guess it is time for the nickel bucket, makes sense given that they are worth more than five cents already.
     
  37. jnojr

    jnojr New Member

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    I do not understand the fascination with saving nickles.

    Yes, the metal content of them is worth more than the face value. So what? It's illegal to melt them down. Nickle is a hard metal... it will take more time, effort, and energy to render nickles down than the extra 1 cent of face value. And if TEOTWAWKI comes... what are people going to do with nickles? At least copper pennies could conceivably be drawn into wire, turned into jewelry, used to make plumbing or bullet jackets or a bunch of other things. Nickle isn't particularly useful for an effectively pre-Industrial civilization.

    FWIW, I keep a stack of FRNs around. I figure that, in a short-term emergency, if ATMs aren't working, I'll be able to buy things. In a longer-term situation, I can run out and buy stuff while everyone else is crying about their cards not working... it'll take time for people to realize that fiat currency has actually become worthless. And it's available for an emergency that has nothing to do with SHTF. I also keep stacking 90% "junk" and bullion silver. I save my pre-'82 pennies because they have some intrinsic as well as numismatic value... copper will be a useful material so long as we do not revert to the Stone Age, and in 40 years rolls of 70+ year old pennies might well be worth quite a bit more in FRNs simply due to collectability.

    Nickles, dimes, and quarters get rolled up and deposited. Kennedys and dollar coins, I save, simply because I see so few of them and they're just different and interesting. But if our society and economy fall off of a cliff, I don't expect them to be basically worthless fairly shortly.
     
  38. AGgressive Metal

    AGgressive Metal New Member

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    GREAT thread.

    Some random thoughts:
    -If we have HYPER-inflation, at first coins will not be wanted because in terms of face value they will hardly be worth anything, but as time goes on, people will recognize the inherent metal value
    -There may come a time when the government calls in and/or de-monetizes all pennies - this has already happend in Australia and New Zealand. Also, Denmark, Sweden and Norway have all phased out their formally smallest denomination coins and now they all use a 50 Ore as their smallest coin (previously there were 1, 2, 5, 25, etc - all phased out over time). In these cases, the copper content is now worth more than the face value, so even though they are no longer legal tender, it was better to save them than turn them in for higher denominations. In all these cases, there was ample advanced notice about turning in the old coins if you wanted to.
    -If you are currently saving $1 coins, consider switching to halves (50 cents) instead - more metal for your buck and they don't have a crappy corroding outer layer of "gold".
    -If you are keeping a stash of physical FRNs on hand, consider adding a few Canadian dollars, Swiss Francs, or Euros - a small currency hedge won't hurt.
     
  39. AGgressive Metal

    AGgressive Metal New Member

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    Is Ponce still here? If so you will have roused his anger!!! :p
     
  40. wallew

    wallew Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
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    Occupation:
    Retired - no job, no money
    Location:
    Texas, USA, North America, Planet Earth
    Go ask Ferfal. OK, I'll expound somewhat for those that are unaware of who Ferfal is. He lives in Argentina and has been blogging and writing about the collapse of his country for over six/seven years.

    http://ferfal.blogspot.com/
     

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