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First Spouse Coins

Discussion in 'PM's - Coins - Numis - Base Metals' started by ppius13, Apr 1, 2010.



  1. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    The mint's "Gold Coins" web page has both with the Truman Proof "currently unavailable". I find it takes a moment for the bottom of the page to load so it may not have been fully loaded when you last looked.

    http://catalog.usmint.gov/coins/gold-coins/?_ga=1.78445457.481193035.1430620564
     
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  2. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Right you are SIR!

    I did wake myself up from this boring sleeper.

    They (US MINTY) sure don't organize the site to make it easy check on their shenanigans.

    Soon however, soon we'll see a few fall off from sales...


    Hard to believe that one can still buy coins issued in 2013. :wink:
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  3. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Just did a homework study on the SLABBED spouses from NGC & PCGS in both MS & PF.

    The numbers have really fallen since 2012.

    The presidential status numbers in popularity did not even phase them.

    See Wikipedia for those numbers from 10 researches in a graph form.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States


    The spouse sales and slabbing ON Roosevelts (both) at numbers 5 for TR and 2 for FDR - were rather low.

    All the rest of the presidents after LINCOLN #1 - followed that EXCEPT for JFK.


    This confirms my overview about one of two POSSIBLE future things:
    This will be an entire double spouse series (MS & PF) of undervalued sleepers and BE very quiet after it goes dark;
    or it will be a totally blatant missed opportunity.

    BUT Who knows, right?

    On the other hand for the world wise:

    Like I've mentioned before Watch China making a bid for the world wise currency come October, 2015
    in the G30 "ish" category. Because her gold reporting will NOW will start to go way up.

    Today, China probably has at least twice what America USED to have back for the Breton Woods
    paper money agreement of nations in 1944.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  4. angryhippy

    angryhippy Seeker Seeker

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  5. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle. Guess that worldwide MONEY conference in October is making the nations come clean "toward" their stealth
    gold holdings. China wants a top seat.

    I hope (praying & wishing) that TPTB (manipulating) keep the gold prices down for the LBJ spouses on 8-27 ish that will make 3 sleepers (Truman, Eisenhower, and LBJ) and one that hit a home run in sales (JFK) this year alone. I load up on the low mintages and grab the
    couple on the HYPED ones.



    Next year is Nixon, Ford, and Reagan. Then this double PF & MS series may DIE a total sleeper in ALL of the US Mint history since about 1793 ish.

    Wow - a 224 year one too.

    AS A total MINTY FLOP.

    We will see that the world will soon own up to their GOLD holdings to safeguard their currencies - some crooked
    nations may actually have to prove them up too and have other nations audit them. Guess who?
     
  6. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    7/18/2015 - Truman proof coins are available from the mint today.

    7/20/2015 - Kennedy Uncirculated Coin back in stock.

    7/22/2015 - Kennedy Proof Coin back in stock.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015
  7. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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  8. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Good news for you... the 2014 $25 AGE's are still off the shelves and I can personally verify they cannot be found ANYWHERE, unless apmex is your pleasure where they want about $950 per. The true mintage was just released, 35,000, which makes it number 3 on the mintage chart among bullion $25 pieces. You're in the money and I actually fell backward into a good call for once. lol
     
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  9. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Lots of US Mint coins will be extremely low in sales this year and next.

    NOW remember these would ALL be US Minted coins only.

    Anything made by the US Mint with some dollar based value on it - whether or not it was meant for circulation - over the last 200
    years the market HAS sooner or later (way quicker now because of the internet) does wake up and embrace the coin as a winner if it has possible popularity - however, many such coins were blatantly overlooked by the (you should KNOW that absolutely nobody was thinking outside the herd "THUNK!") collectors when they first came out. The semi-professional (?) collectors totally missed the collecting by US MINT MARK and several other things.

    Like the 19th century US Trade Dollars or $50 Pan Am 1915s (think ATB pucks now) and all the pre-1983 silver commemorative halves.

    So....

    the best coins in gold and platinum would be under 5,000 in mintage - almost anything come two years from now...
    think like the recent Eliza Johnson spouse.... her mintage is around 2,905

    Jackie Kennedy UNC flopped some -758 coins and they were sent back to the US Mint this week - they probably weren't 70s...LOL

    By-the-way: BTW the spouses have some 54 gold coins UNDER that 5,000 mintage right now immediately today...
    Study the popular presidents and GUESS which ones will pull on their respective spouse come 2017.

    Guess one both Roosevelts FDR #2 president (#5 president TR Roosevelt is not too shabby either) and guess two both #8 president Eisenhowers.... Not to mention all four of the Wilson's #6 president.

    the best coins in silver would be under 18,000 in mintage - almost anything come two years from now....

    BTW: The ATB pucks have some 8 "P" pucks under 18,000 mintage right today also...
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  10. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    ON US MINT site:
    http://catalog.usmint.gov/coin-programs/first-spouse-coins/?_ga=1.75266706.1498107167.1426021538

    BOTH Eisenhower (overall Presidential rating # 8) - spouse coins just went LIMITED...

    MS around 1,500
    PR around 2,200

    They will give both FDRs (overall Presidential rating #2) - spouse coins a run for their low mintage...

    They will if the mintage holds and you know the US Mint lately... right?

    Just in time for tomorrows EISENHOWER COIN & CHRONICLES set at 17,000 mintage....
     
  11. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    Maybe not. I put 100 proof and 100 mint state Eisenhower's in my US Mint shopping cart. I think they're "Limited" on the basis that there's a limit of 10,000 each.
     
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  12. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    When you kick up EISENHOWER on the US Mint site right now you see that both the spouses and the 41 minute from now
    Coin & Chronicles Set are all 3 limited. You are probably right - it's a sales push, gimmick, and perhaps interest grabber.

    They never marketed the spouses - and by hook or crook - they will be the lowest series in US Mint history as far as total sales per unit.

    Their rules and law and custom is not to ever produce any precious metal coin that sells less than 10,000 units.
    Only perhaps? 8 spouses made that MINT demanded thresh hold of 10K. The rest, except for perhaps Kennedy PF, fell way below.

    So buy any PM coin below 6,000 units and you should have both the intrinsic value and the low total availability to protect your collection.
    Especially when you can not find or buy them. Kinda like the really rare coins of the past according to the PCGS/NGC populations.
    All coins worth over $1,000 should be slabbed. IMVHO.
     
  13. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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  14. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    HC was right because the US Mint put both PROOF Harding & Coolidge as "sold out."

    HC said stated, figured, surmised, and actually knew the rest of the 2014s spouses (PF) would probably be lower than

    FDR Roosevelt's PFs @ 2,377!

    Imagine that?

    Harding PF is around 2,372 = BINGO!

    Coolidge PF is around 2,316 = BINGO!

    In Jordan's book these would COME in @ numbers 22, 23, 24, for the "lowest (range) proof coins ever made by the US Mint."

    All are NOT audited figures (read around + or -).

    Better than buying a house that needs repairs (that's a sad hit), right HC?

    Guess the next president PF coin, okay?
     
  15. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Thanks.
    I must've surmised correctly, since the mint hasn't altered the 2372 and 2316 numbers for 3 weeks now. Eleanor PR is dethroned. Will Eleanor unc be dethroned too? Most likely, but not by much.
     
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  16. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    [video]https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?p=light+my+fire+jose+feliciano&ei=UTF-8&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003[/video]

    UNC FDR Roosevelt's Eleanor has three rivals in the running all 2014s. She is supposed to be on the NEW $10 bill perhaps replacing Hamilton - the King's illegitimate banking son from his Caribbean experiences also perhaps - Roosevelt was #2 FDR his past relative TR Roosevelt was #5 - and on Mt. Rushmore.

    I do wonder what will happen when these series of MS & PF go dark for the spouses.

    Perhaps the rankings will make some mark when the blatant opportunity MISSED hits the mindsets and the collector press. Same thing happened 100 years ago. Like in the $20 Saints PROOFS & $50 Pan Ams. Not to mention the $10 proofs of the same era. For 80 years they were ALL the collecting rage. Now they are ALL super priced.

    Jordan's or another author's new book will light the fire...
     
  17. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    I studied all the spouses last night - one at a time already issued.

    Seems to me the US Mint really BLEW it on design - with the children, flowers, sewing, painting, and garden mentality.

    They had the FIRST SPOUSE series to design - and each spouse stayed in or designed the WHITE HOUSE which was the FIRST SPOUSE's
    main occupation. Pillow talk. Some ran the White House and the government like the second Wilson wife - hand on the cane - imagine that?

    The White Houses should have ALL stayed on the REVERSE - with the spouse on the OBS. They would have had a common theme that
    way. So simple. Period.

    Each COIN (PF/MS) would have changed a tad via research for the PICTURE of the White House at the end of their (spouses) TERMS with trees, roads, and additions - but they would have ALL been BEAUTIFUL - and had a JOINT CONVICTION for sales.

    So sad we have the same TYPE of low mentality there that we had right before Saint Gaudens stepped in and made things right.


    Now we are seeing coins with UNDER 2,000 mintages sticking - last time this happened was 1838! 177 years ago...
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2015
  18. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    The MINT just came out with latest figures. With the stock market crash(ing) they sold 550 HOOVER proofs. NEW.

    Guess the rhyme thing and a strong marketer wants his share...

    They sold a LOT of spouses this last week...

    They blew almost every spouse PAST FDR's Eleanor low, low, low, 150 year records...

    IN BOTH Mint State & Proof...

    Reverse PPT

    PS day after tomorrow LBJ's spouse comes out I believe... 8-27-15
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2015
  19. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That simply has to be an error. The XLS spreadsheet was showing 2201 as the cumulative number for Hoover Proofs. There's no reason for that many orders and there's no reason why the mint would even have that many in inventory.
     
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  20. b_cahill

    b_cahill Seeker Seeker

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    I will be very surprised if there is not somewhere in the neighborhood of -500 on next week's report.
     
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  21. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Sad that the federal government can not be trusted with their numbers, it truly is.

    It started years and years ago through THE many agencies and bureaus they control.

    I guess the bottom line prevails in coins...


    That is:

    Always know that really true and rare coins are lack of available coin(s) and not some tag, label, or story you may hear.

    I truly wonder if after this huge gold series of expensive coins goes dark in over a year - what coins will be available and at what price.

    It also depends upon the gold price, too.
     
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  22. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    8/30/15 XLS spreadsheet showing 2204 Hoover Proofs sold.
     
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  23. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Now if they could JUST stop all the sales of 2013 SPOUSE coins right now near 2016.

    HC 100% right again.

    Not only were Hoover's down PF at 2204

    Coolidge PF at 2314

    Harding PF at 2371

    FDR unchanged at 2377.

    LBJ got 1st week action at 933 unc & 1287 PF
    best action since FDR forgetting JFK. LBJ Back to Taft's first week numbers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
  24. b_cahill

    b_cahill Seeker Seeker

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    It appears as if you got your wish, HS!

    As of last week's sales report:

    Helen Taft Proof - 2,593
    Helen Taft Uncirculated - 1,979
    Ellen Wilson Proof 1st - 2,508
    Ellen Wilson Uncirculated 1st - 1,966
    Edith Wilson Proof 2nd - 2,463
    Edith Wilson Uncirculated 2nd - 1,964
     
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  25. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    WOW!

    THANKS old friend...

    I usually wait for the Tuesday release of figures from the US Mint.

    You, John Candy aka b_cahill, and HC have extremely good insight and probable skills via the MINT SITE.

    If correct and confirmed later by sales -that makes 4 MS spouse under 2,000 mintage and 4 PF spouses under 2,600. Namely: the Taft coins , the 2 Wilson coins, and the FDR's spouse coins.

    These are ABSOLUTELY amazing LOW numbers because of non-popularity, expense, and the economy.

    By checking Eric Jordan's first book "Modern Commemorative Coins," one can see how 'really low' they are compared to all the years of the US MINT's existence since 1793. Puts them in the lowest 13 to 22 coins issued in 222 years.


    Like John Maben said, "they are under-appreciated, and they are not quite commemoratives, and aren't struck as bullion either."
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
  26. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Wow... it's about time they thinned the herd.
     
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  27. b_cahill

    b_cahill Seeker Seeker

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    Apmex currently has a couple of each of the MS 2013 spouses for sale with OGP for a small premium over mint price (Taft is under). It may take a while, but I think with these extremely low mintages that these will appreciate nicely in the years to come.

    Edith Wilson ($755) - http://www.apmex.com/product/78933/2013-w-1-2-oz-gold-edith-wilson-bu-w-box-coa
    Ellen Wilson ($780) - http://www.apmex.com/product/78931/2013-w-1-2-oz-gold-ellen-wilson-bu-w-box-coa
    Helen Taft ($730) - http://www.apmex.com/product/78929/2013-w-1-2-oz-gold-helen-taft-bu-w-box-coa
    Edith Roosevelt ($775) - http://www.apmex.com/product/78927/2013-w-1-2-oz-gold-edith-roosevelt-bu-w-box-coa
    Ida McKinley ($785) - http://www.apmex.com/product/78925/2013-w-1-2-oz-gold-ida-mckinley-bu-w-box-coa

    I am tempted, but I just can't afford to.
     
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  28. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    as of 9/27/15

    2013 GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ - TAFT 2,598
    2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - TAFT 1,993
    2013 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ - WILSON 1ST 2,511
    2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - WILSON 1ST 1,980
    2013 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ - WILSON 2ND 2,464
    2013 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - WILSON 2ND 1,974
     
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  29. b_cahill

    b_cahill Seeker Seeker

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    If you want to use a credit card to buy an MS Jackie Kennedy spouse coin, you can get one from A***x that was probably deemed unsuitable for grading for $993:

    http://www.apmex.com/product/91560/2015-w-1-2-oz-gold-jacqueline-kennedy-bu-w-box-coa

    If you want to get one directly from the mint that has not been passed over for grading, you can get one for $750 (with shipping):

    http://catalog.usmint.gov/jacquelin...coin-JQ6.html?cgid=first-spouse-coins#start=1

    A***x has 3 available. The mint has over 100 available. Which would you choose?
     
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  30. Mr Paradise

    Mr Paradise Midas Member Midas Member

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    Location:
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    [Scratches top of head]

    The Mint one?
     
  31. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Looking at the Mint website Harding and Coolidge proofs are sold out. Other than the 2015s all we are now left with is Coolidge, Harding , and Hoover in MS and Hoover in proof.
     
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  32. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Tomorrow will be the day they release the sales for the spouses.

    They have really been a series of POOR POOR POOR sellers for a US Mint that wants to sell 10,000 units per coin
    per Mint State per PROOF. Even Jackie only made it since 2007 and since Jefferson.

    These will go down in as a FLOP. However, sometimes flops are SETTING the bar at a NEW standard...

    These will all go down as a BLATANT MISSED OPPORTUNITY. In a few FLOP years...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2015
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  33. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    Great video! I didn't know that about the high jump.
    Cumulative Numismatic Sales Figures were updated thru October 4th on Tuesday. Are you expecting some other kind of report?
     
  34. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Tradeshack: I was waiting to be sure - sometimes the mint has number problems.

    HC: IT's amazing that you can see things before they happen. Excellent - plus.

    b_cahill: Good calls.

    We now have 26 out of the 38 issued on the spouses that are on after-market only.

    PERHAPS - Even Eric Jordan probably was especially surprised statistically on the LAST five years with ALL sales under that "magic" 5,000 number.

    Because of many complex reasons these spouses had really low sales since the start - almost. I feel that the ones that picked-up a total set in either or both will be rewarded in the future.

    The strange part is that even if you are late to the game several things are still available through many different re-sellers.

    The herd does not get it until everything goes dark.

    PLEASE See chapter ONE of Eric Jordan's first book. Modern Commemorative Coins. About past collectors in the early 1900s and the herd mentality.

    Remember these coins are neither COMMEMORATIVES nor BULLION coins. They were struck as a separate 82 coin opportunity.

    And are STUCK (not struck) in a bullion category because there is not another place to put them in via RED BOOK and the 3rd party SLABBERS. They should have a separate category called "MINT GOLD SERIES FLOPS."
     
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  35. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    The herd hated these coins since they went unpopular in 2007 and the price of gold made it profitable to melt over 10,000 plus of them.

    The herd also was not too-much-in-love with the "P" pucks versus the bullion ones because of the premiums.

    As much as things change - the fundamentals will rule out in the end. Gold and silver are the only real money and the crown jewels
    are gold under 6,000 mintage - and silver under 20,000 mintage in any size series shape or value as long as the govy put a dollar
    type amount (read quarter dollar too) on the coin.

    The herd finds the biggest coins ever made distasteful because the dollar amount appears dishonest. And like in the past, say, 1800s onward,
    especially from the Mississippi Eastward; they prefer convenient lightweight paper money to the real thing.

    Now in the West and Mid-West the folks there had more common sense and knew that coined freedom was the real thing; because they had
    studied history and knew every govy from the Greeks and then the Romans onward had blown the peoples' trust and although they tried to be honest to begin with but that soon ended.

    Because they needed money for their social and political promises (problems) they all had to go crooked with inflation via debasing the precious metal content - and then graduating to paper money printed as much as they needed.

    The old adage: with the guy rubbing his hands together - says you are in good hands with me - all the while knowing he was conning you.
     
  36. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ - KENNEDY
    Cumulative Numismatic Sales Figures for December 13, 2015: 11,058


    The mint only has 29 of these left in stock. Only a few business days remaining and she's leaving!



    0_550_554.jpg
     
  37. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    All spouses in the catalog listed as "limited". The mint isn't saying so but it's possible they could take the 2014's off sale Dec. 31st.
     
  38. macrohedge

    macrohedge New Member

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    8
    I will buy a few hoover proof and harding ms coins before year end, it appears that 2014 spouse coins can be removed at any moment.
     
  39. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
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    The mint has posted "Last Chance" for a number of products. First Spouse gold isn't on the list.
     
  40. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
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    Jackie Proof is gone now.
     

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