1. Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
    Dismiss Notice
  2. There are no markets
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Week of 6/24/2017 Closing prices & Chg Over Last Wk---- Gold $1256.40 Silver $16.64 Oil $43.01 USD $96.94
  4. "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"
    Dismiss Notice

First Spouse Coins

Discussion in 'PM's - Coins - Numis - Base Metals' started by ppius13, Apr 1, 2010.



  1. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016
  2. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    6,917
    Likes Received:
    3,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So many of these MS are below 3,900 mintage - and PF are below 5,000 mintage to date.

    This set goes dark early 2017.

    This was the biggest mistake SERIES and INDIVIDUAL COINS in 220 years from the mint.

    Like the PAN-AM 1915 $50 set at $100 bucks each that sold less than 1,000 units each.

    Get them slabbed...
     
  3. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2016
  4. SilverBuyer

    SilverBuyer Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    744
    Likes Received:
    565
    Trophy Points:
    93
    How good a price is $15 over spot per coin for Abigail Adams and Martha Washington? (both proof and mint state)
     
  5. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Basically he is selling at straight bullion prices. Works out to 2.5% over spot, which is cheaper than you can find a 1/2 oz AGE for. I saw that on CCE, too - would have thought long and hard about it if I had some spare cash sitting around... :2 thumbs up:
     
  6. SilverBuyer

    SilverBuyer Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    744
    Likes Received:
    565
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Yeah I was thinking about it...but I'm guessing it would have to be a pretty long term investment before I received any possible return? (not counting the gold price going up, just thinking about premium)

    Do any coins in this series trade at a decent premium above spot at the moment?
     
  7. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Most do. They go anywhere from 10% to more than 100% over. Helps to be in a 70 holder. The 2007 had the highest mintage, and are the closest to pure bullion plays.
     
    SilverBuyer likes this.
  8. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Pat nixon gold spouse debuts 2/18. That means Harding MIGHT get pulled from the catalog that day. Harding unc's numbers as of 2/7 are 1,834.
     
  9. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Despite the interest in Jackie's coin the series has continued to to go nowhere. The mint continues to 'clean up' their inventory. It remains to be seen if any new series pop lows will create a new series 'key'. I, for one, am thrilled that the series is coming to a close this year. I am tired of hanging on and waiting for the rest of the world to wake up. Good riddance. If there is a post mortem resurrection that won't hurt my feelings a bit!
     
    hernancortes likes this.
  10. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Trophy Points:
    113
    84 coolidge uncs remain which should put it within maybe 30 coins of Eleanor and I expect Hoover and Harding to be right around there as well. Though they can also be pulled at any time. No clear mintage key until audits so we wait for a few years. Until then I guess the market will treat last reported sales as mintage.
     
    savvydon likes this.
  11. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    28
    OK, question for the experts, if you are willing to answer it:

    What is the better buy, a Jackie Kennedy coin (5000+ mintage and growing), with grade of MS-70 (priced from $750 to $800 at MCM), or one of the lower mintage coins (say, < 3000 mintage), but with a lower grade (or ungraded) and more expensive (>$1000)?
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2016
  12. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Depends on your time horizon. For those who think they may flip in the short to medium term it would probably be safer to buy an MS70 slabbed coin closer to spot. For a long term hold (think years) I think the rarer coins in the series will ultimately do better. Either way, they are a sleeper series and the contrarian collector/investor would do well to look at these as a possible excellent long term play. 2c
     
  13. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Thanks for the insight...

    I guess right now looks like an ideal moment for buying, with the upward price movement in gold and upcoming end of the coin series.

    Actually, this will be my first gold coin ever (up to now, I have only collected silver), and it would be nice to stake a claim in both gold and the first spouses.

    I will look at different dealers to see what they offer.
     
  14. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Now 99 Harding uncs left.

    2/14 XLS sheet:
    harding unc 1845--- 99 remain
    coolidge unc 1866--- 79 remain
    hoover unc 1832--- 100+ remain
     
  15. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The 3/8/15 mint report showed Eleanor unc at 1804 sales.
    On the morning of 3/14/15 it was noted 97 Eleanor uncs remained. They sold out about 12 hours later.
    The 3/15/15 mint report showed Eleanor unc at 1911 and over the next 4 weeks it was revised down every week settling at 1886.
     
  16. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    28
    After doing a little research on the First Spouses, I am beginning to have second thoughts on buying my first one.

    This article, in particular, was written by a former First Spouse collector who decided to switch his interest to the $5 gold commemorative series:

    http://www.coinweek.com/opinion/commentary/first-spouse-gold-coins/

    The article says that $5 gold commemorative coins already have an established market, unlike the First Spouses. At the same time, many of the $5 coins still have a low premium.

    APMEX is now selling 69-graded $5 commemoratives priced close to the 1/4 oz gold eagles. The 70-graded $5 commemoratives are about 10% higher in price.

    There is also a sale on APMEX for a 70-graded First Spouse, with % premium somewhere in between the 69- and 70-graded $5 coins.

    I guess I will play it safe and just try the 69-graded $5 commemorative. Now, it's just a matter of finding whether another dealer has a better price.
     
  17. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    $5 commems in 69 should be sought out for as close to spot as possible.
     
    Starter likes this.
  18. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    6,917
    Likes Received:
    3,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Read the old book by Eric Jordan - MODERN COMMEMORATIVE COINS 2009.

    I would look at the minus 4000 population and check presidential/spouse popularity via WIKIPEDIA - then pick the highest rated Spouse/President and buy the PROOF. (And also the UNC if possible) if you trust your research. Rare coins are lack of material not some grade or fancy label on a slab. I tend to think/wonder/imagine that FDR's spouse might be the KEY coin -- the way they let the other LOW ones around IT sell for years!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2016
  19. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    6,917
    Likes Received:
    3,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Today is the beginning of the end for the 10 year series. TWO today, TWO next month, and the last TWO in July.

    http://www.coinweek.com/opinion/commentary/first-spouse-gold-coins/

    This article hurt the sales tremendously -- which by logic will make this set the absolute rarest gold series in American history.

    And with women coming on the paper money in several countries -- mixed with one running now -- it should be very interesting on who missed the boat (that could have EASILY made it if not for the many other PM choices.)

    All's fair in love and war. And these gals are not loved.
     
    Starter likes this.
  20. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Here is my response to this article when Golino posed it in 2014:

    "I was speaking to my local dealer recently, an establishment with over 40 years in the business, and he told me that even when he offers First Spouse Gold Coins to customers for a lower premium than regular bullion American eagle gold coins, buyers want the eagles. He added that people 'just don’t seem to connect to them'. Even dealers who in the recent past did a fairly substantial amount of business in these coins seem to be largely uninterested in them now because of low demand from customers. If few dealers carry the coins, and few buyers want them, there is just not much of a market for the coins...."


    Me: Can someone please connect me to a dealer who would sell me their post-'07 spouses at bullion Gold Eagle prices? I'm being sincere. I just don't see how dealers could get those in any kind of quantity.

    Golino:
    "I have been trying to build a set of these coins since 2008 and recently decided that it made more sense to give up this pursuit and focus instead on the $5 gold commemorative series, which in my view has a brighter future. It is also a lot easier to collect since the coins are made of half as much gold as the First Spouse Gold Coins, just under a quarter-ounce instead of a half-ounce. And the $5 coins will always be widely collected, which means there is a well-established market for them. Plus the coins in the vast majority of cases have designs that most people find appealing, and though issued for over 30 years there are not that many coins in the series, making it much more realistic to complete than most gold coin series."

    Me: Apples and oranges. Both series have an abundance of ugly coins but at least the spouses are cohesive and not sporadic releases of completely unrelated commemorative events/places/people. That really detracts from the $5 commems as a collectible series IMO. Instead, people will just buy the ones that are special to them and skip the others. Yes the spouses will be more difficult and expensive to collect but this argues more for them rather than against, as in the challenge in completing a series they otherwise wouldn't care much about. In achieving their goals coin collectors tend to be a patient bunch.
     
    HistoryStudent and savvydon like this.
  21. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    28
    At the moment, I prefer taking this option, due to the low premiums.

    APMEX is selling the 69-graded $5 coins at premiums similar to the 1/4 eagles.

    There are also sales of specific 69-graded $5 coins at MCM and APMEX at nearly the same prices.

    Maybe one of these days they will offer a design I like that is in that price range.
     
  22. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I'd also add that all the keys and semi-keys in the $5 gold commem series have cratered in the last 3 years along with everything else. Coins that looked promising when they debuted & went off sale with low mintages (army coins, medal of honor etc.) have not panned out. Bottom line? We need a new gold bull to take place before any of this stuff recovers. IMO.
     
    Oldmansmith and HistoryStudent like this.
  23. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    6,917
    Likes Received:
    3,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Okay. On Good Mr. Golino. He ran out of money.
    Period.
    His dealer makes more money selling him loser commemoratives.
    Period.
    THEN He pulled the last one out slams the door on the spouses.
    Period.

    HC: I have all those commemoratives you mentioned above - all of them. Like Eric Jordan said in his book via the collector -"there are JUST too many (read $5.00 gold) to chose from." My great uncle received the first Medal of Honor via Lincoln in 1863/1864 ish.

    Right now the spouses are in the lowest 40 coins produced in both proof and mint state - by AMERICA since day one (1794 ish).

    These will be an unbelievable missed opportunity.

    See Below...

    5.) What do you think about the First Spouse series overall? Do you think people are mostly only collecting them because of the low mintages?

    I think they are intriguing. I believe that they are very underappreciated now but will someday be a blatant missed opportunity. I also like the idea of a large set of half ounce gold coins that aren’t quite commemoratives and aren’t struck as bullion issues either.

    ********************************************************************************************************

    By Louis Golino July 5, 2012 10 Comments Read More →
    The Coin Analyst: Eliza Johnson, not Julia Tyler, is the Current Queen of the Gold Spouses
    by Louis Golino for CoinWeek…..

    Identifying which coins are the lowest mintage pieces in a particular series has always been at the very heart of coin collecting in general, especially modern coin collecting.

    But collectors often lack the right tools to determine which coins are the low-mintage keys in their series.

    There are two reasons for this.

    • First, the U.S. Mint’s sale reports, which are released weekly, have to be reconciled and adjusted to reflect cancellations, returns, and other changes before a final audited mintage number can be made available. That can take some time.
    • Second, printed reference sources on modern U.S. coins have not done a very good job of providing updated and accurate mintage data over the years, although that is starting to change.
    [​IMG]The widely-read and used “Red Book,” or Guide Book of United States Coins (Whitman Publishing, 2012), now in its 66th edition, has included incorrect data on the mintages of modern U.S. coins in recent years.

    I and other numismatic writers have brought this to the attention of the publishers of the Red Book, but for some reason, the wrong data continues to be used. I certainly do not mean to suggest that the Red Book lacks value for collectors and numismatists. It remains an important reference source, but it would be much better if more care went into the preparation of mintage information about recent coins. To do so, those who prepare the book would do well to consult reputable online reference sources and work with the U.S. Mint.

    Perhaps the best example of this weakness of the Red Book is the information on the $10 First Spouse gold series, which includes some glaring mistakes.

    Coin World writer Erik Martin, writing in the market analysis section of the July 16 issue of Coin World, said that the 2009-W Julia Tyler coins remains “the series’ low-mintage champ with 2,188 Uncirculated and 3,878 Proof strikes.”

    When I saw this story, I immediately knew that it was not correct. The lowest mintage uncirculated coin is actually the 2011-W Eliza Johnson coin with 2,905 coins sold when sales were ended recently, and the 2011-W Julia Grant coin is the lowest proof coin with 3,969 coins sold at the conclusion of sales in April. Both of those figures are not final audited numbers, but they are the most current available data as reflected in the Mint’s weekly sales reports.

    The numbers which Mr. Martin used for the Julia Tyler coins “come from are the same as those” ** in the 2013 edition of the Red Book, and they are not correct. The correct data on these coins does, however, appear in a new book by John Maben and Eric Jordan, Top 50 Most Popular Modern Coins (Krause, 2012).

    ** Editors Note: CoinWeek was incorrect to state that the mintage numbers used by Mr. Martin “came from the 1913 Red Book”. We do not know the source of his information or how it was compiled. The mintage are however the “same” as those used in the Red Book. We apologize to all concerned for this mis-statement and have made the correction above.

    As John Maben explained to me in an interview I did with him about the book that appeared on May 24 in Coin Week , “When it comes to modern coins, Eric is known for turning over every stone to produce the finest mintage and comparative analysis data known to man. He took on this task. The data used in the mintage tables came directly from the US Mint web site and their Office of Public Affairs.”

    “After a coin’s mintage was received from the Mint it was checked against the weekly sales report behavior at the close of the sales cycle to make certain that all options for the purchase of the coins were included in the final numbers. If the two pieces of data did not fit then a new inquiry was made at the Mint. Collectors of new active series need up to date mintage data, and based on my research ours are correct final audited numbers through Sept 29th 2011 unless otherwise noted.”

    According to the work done by Mr. Jordan, the Tyler coin mintages are actually 3,143 for the uncirculated, and 4,844 for the proof version. That represents a difference of roughly 1,000 coins in both cases from the figures in the Red Book, which is a very substantial difference. Coin collectors deserve to have more accurate information than that.

    As interest in the spouse coins has waned in recent years, mintages have been coming in much lower than they did during the earlier years of the program. The Mint has also reduced the authorized maximum mintage levels several times, and slowing sales in 2011 may result in another cut in those levels. None of the spouse coins except those released in 2007 sold out of their maximum mintage levels, and those issues trade for close to bullion value, because they are perceived as common, even though many were melted.

    Moreover, there is simply no way to know today what the lowest mintage coin of the series will be when the series concludes. But based on recent trends, there is a strong likelihood that some future coin will come in with a lower number.

    In addition, numbers do not tell the whole story. The Julia Tyler coins, and those of Letitia Tyler, President Tyler’s second wife, both continue to carry premiums, and that is partly a result of the fact that they are broadly perceived as attractive pieces that depict beautiful women.

    The Eliza Johnson coin, on the other hand, has been repeatedly criticized as being unattractive, and that probably goes a long way to explaining why so few coins were sold.

    As I have written many times, today’s unloved coins that sell poorly often become tomorrow’s low-mintage darlings. But the catch is that the coins need to combine low mintages with long-term demand, and a lot of times one is there without the other.

    A case in point is the five-ounce America the Beautiful coins, which also had a strong start during their first year of issue in 2010. The coins were not actually made available until early the following year. The 2010 bullion coins, which were hard to obtain in early 2011, due to distribution problems, and the first 2010 numismatic version, the 2010-P Hot Springs coin, were hot commodities for a while.

    But then interest in these coins began to decline, and today sales numbers for both versions of the coins are very low. The Mint has also reduced the maximum mintage levels for the numismatic versions to 25,000, while the bullion versions are currently minted to demand.

    It is possible that future collectors will pay a premium for coins in this series with low mintages, but if few people collect them over the years, and even fewer build complete sets, the demand for them will probably not be there.

    And therein lies the conundrum of modern coin collecting. Which coins that few people want today will be in high demand tomorrow? That is the $64,000 question.

    [​IMG]Louis Golino is a coin collector and numismatic writer, whose articles on coins have appeared in Coin World, Numismatic News, and a number of different coin web sites. His column for CoinWeek, “The Coin Analyst,” covers U.S. and world coins and precious metals. He collects U.S. and European coins and is a member of the ANA, PCGS, NGC, and CAC. He has also worked for the U.S. Library of Congress and has been a syndicated columnist and news analyst on international affairs for a wide variety of newspapers and web sites.

    Home » Top 50 Most Popular Modern Coins: A Conversation with John Maben

    By Louis Golino May 24, 2012 6 Comments Read More →
    Top 50 Most Popular Modern Coins: A Conversation with John Maben
    by Louis Golino for CoinWeek

    [​IMG]John Maben, owner of John Maben Rare Coins and Modern Coin Mart , and Eric Jordan, author of the book, Modern Commemorative Coins, are the authors of the new book, Top 50 Most Popular Modern Coins (Krause, 2012), which zeroes in on the 50 modern U.S. coins that the authors believe are the most sought after issues minted since 1986.

    John recently discussed the book and his views on modern U.S. coins with me.

    1.) Can you tell us a little bit about the division of labor between you and Eric Jordan in writing this book? For example, did you each cover certain coins or series?

    Eric and I make a great team. The idea was mine. The conceptual layout and content layout were mine. The initial list which consisted of 150 or so candidates was created by me after reviewing suggestions from five others. The ratings for affordabilty, scarcity, and popularity were submitted by me based on many years of market knowledge and experience. I also did the retail pricing which was current based on information available to me at the time. Along with Eric, others were consulted to trim the final Top 50 list and to agree on the ratings. The vast majority of text and virtually all of the statistics were written and compiled by Eric. A team of editors which included myself, Chuck Daughtrey, and Debbie Bradley did the editing. Chuck played the largest role outside of myself and Eric, and deserves credit for many hours of editing and graphic arts work as well as for the photography.

    2.) As someone who collects and follows many of the coins discussed in the book, I was struck by the difference between some of the mintage figures in the book, and the previously available figures. I also think the mintage data is one of the most useful aspects to the book. Can you discuss the process you and Eric used to come up with the mintage data, which I understand involved consulting with the U.S. Mint’s Office of Public Affairs?

    When it comes to modern coins, Eric is known for turning over every stone to produce the finest mintage and comparative analysis data known to man. He took on this task. The data used in the mintage tables came directly from the US Mint web site and their Office of Public Affairs. After a coin’s mintage was received from the Mint it was checked against the weekly sales report behavior at the close of the sales cycle to make certain that all options for the purchase of the coins were included in the final numbers. If the two pieces of data did not fit then a new inquiry was made at the Mint. Collectors of new active series need up to date mintage data, and based on my research ours are correct final audited numbers through Sept 29th 2011 unless otherwise noted.

    3.) Limiting the group of top coins to 50 inevitably means some people’s personal favorites are excluded. But I am curious about a couple of coins not included. First, why not include the key date half-ounce $25 burnished American gold eagle, the 2007-W coin, and the 2011-W $50 American gold eagle, which is the new king of the entire burnished gold eagle series, as well as the key in its respective $50 series?

    The 2007-W is a very important coin in the $25 mint state Gold Eagle Series, maybe even THE coin given that it does not have to face a $25 1999-W for supremacy in its denominational set. The 2007-W was mentioned by some of the reviewers for inclusion and likely would have made the list had it been longer but one of the concepts of the Top 50 was that of the “short set”. 2008-W gold as a group is much stronger than the 2007-W gold. As far as the 2011-W is concerned, we did not have the closing sales numbers on the coin when the text was being written late last year.

    4.) In addition, on the First Spouse coins I agree with the inclusion of the Liberty sub-set, which seems like it will be of enduring interest because of the iconic designs. But I wonder why you did not include any other issues such as the two so-far lowest mintage coins, the Julia and Letitia Tyler coins, which also have attractive designs. Is that because you anticipate future issues with lower mintages, or is it more because you think the appeal of the Liberty designs will trump low mintages over time?

    Great question. There were many heartbreaking moments in finalizing the list to a mere 50 coins. This was one of them. Having 4 spouse designs and 8 in total with both manufacturing methods included already represented more than 1/6 of the total number of coins in the basket. Many coins that would have been included if this were a Top 100 book had to be cut. We wanted to limit the basket to 50 coins to keep the total cost of building a set within reach of most people if assembled over several years.

    5.) What do you think about the First Spouse series overall? Do you think people are mostly only collecting them because of the low mintages?

    I think they are intriguing. I believe that they are very underappreciated now but will someday be a blatant missed opportunity. I also like the idea of a large set of half ounce gold coins that aren’t quite commemoratives and aren’t struck as bullion issues either.

    6.) A number of the coins highlighted in the book seem to be generating less interest now than they did a couple years ago, and their prices have been somewhat stagnant such the 2008-W gold eagles and Buffalo coins. Do you think the book will help spur renewed interest in and demand for these issues? What other factors do you think are involved in pushing prices for these kind of coins up such as perhaps dealer promotions?

    [​IMG]Despite a price correction, the Buffalo coins are still very popular from my standpoint. It is definitely true that some coins in the book including the Gold Eagles you mentioned and the 2006-W and 2008-W Platinum Eagles are not very popular at the moment. They were VERY popular for a sustained period after being issued. We only listed coins that are out of favor at the moment if we believe in earnest that they will have their day again, and in a big way. I think with or without the book these coins will see renewed demand when the market cycle again begins to focus on overlooked value. The book might help, it surely won’t hurt. I am pleased to see that with this book being on distributors shelves for just two weeks, there are already seventeen sets registered in the NGC Registry .

    I honestly don’t pay much attention to dealer promotions. I have nothing against them, in fact I think they can contribute to keeping markets healthy, but they have a tendency to drive prices up only to fall right back down when the “promotion” is over. We picked these coins for among other reasons because we believe they will stand the test of time.

    7.) Hot modern issues like many of the ones in the book seem to follow cycles of interest and price movement. This can make it difficult for collectors who fail to get the coins at issue price to know when to buy other than when precious metals prices dip. Do you have any suggestions to collectors on this?

    I always tell collectors to be patient. Hot issues almost always decline within a few months or less. Unless you really believe they are going in the other direction hold off. I sell at the current market prices to people that have made the decision to buy. I can’t sell above or below market based on what I think might happen. I can’t predict the markets, no one can. I never expect to share in any profits nor can I share in any losses. Don’t buy coins if your ONLY goal is to make money unless you are willing to assume a high level of risk. If don’t enjoy them and appreciate them, you’re missing out. The fun of building a set, the thrill of the hunt, the appreciation of holding history in your hands is what it’s all about. If you make wise choices and make money, it’s icing on the cake. Timing the market when making purchases is difficult, but if you are happy with the price when you buy it, then short term fluctuations should be of no concern.

    8.) What is your recommendation to collectors of modern U.S. coins like the ones covered in the book as far as whether they should purchase them in their original government packaging and keep them that way, or have the better quality ones graded? Do you think it matters whether a graded coin set consists of coins from the same grading service, or does it not matter that much?

    Collect what you like. Some only buy coins in OGP, others only third party graded, and some collect both. I personally would not “mix and match” grading services with modern coins as long as they were all available in my grading service holder of choice. All coins are not always liquid. If you buy certified coins it helps to buy only those certified by the most highly regarded services, and that have the largest number of market participants.

    9.) Is there any one coin, or series, covered in the book that you think is particularly undervalued? My own choice would probably be the 2008-W burnished platinum eagles, which I know Mr. Jordan is also big on. What would you choose?

    Well, this is no fun because that would also be a top choice for me! I kid you not when I say I like all of them as great values at current price levels. The 1999-W unfinished proof die coins are also a stand out but very difficult to find in MS70 and even somewhat tough in MS69, especially the $10 coin.

    10.) Finally, I am sure readers would be interested in what you think about the U.S. Mint’s plans for a special two-coin proof set to mark the 75th anniversary of the San Francisco mint, and the approach the Mint is following this time, i.e., essentially minting to demand.

    “They made too many”. “They made too few”. “The dealers bought them all up, it isn’t fair”. Well now, with the U.S. Mint announcing they will strike to demand, how can any reasonable person complain? They can’t. The “flippers” won’t be happy though because these coins have zero flip potential. I like it. I never liked having to jump through hoops to get the large quantities of new issues we need to satisfy our customer base, but I did it and will do it again if they go back to imposing household limits. In an ideal world, the U.S. Mint would set aside part of each new issue’s total mintage for direct dealer sales and give them a break on the price when they purchase quantity as virtually every other mint around the world has been doing for years. The mint has no such program for collectible coins outside of their “bulk purchase program,” which is extremely limited to only a few items and results in a very minimal savings. I like the creativity I’ve seen coming from the U.S. Mint expressed in products such as this two coin set.

    CoinWeek would like to thank John for his participation in this conversation about his new book and modern U.S. coins.

    [​IMG]Louis Golino is a coin collector and numismatic writer, whose articles on coins have appeared in Coin World, Numismatic News, and a number of different coin web sites. His column for CoinWeek, “The Coin Analyst,” covers U.S. and world coins and precious metals. He collects U.S. and European coins and is a member of the ANA, PCGS, NGC, and CAC. He has also worked for the U.S. Library of Congress and has been a syndicated columnist and news analyst on international affairs for a wide variety of newspapers and web sites.
     
  24. Starter

    Starter Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2013
    Messages:
    662
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I finally made my purchase, which was from eBay:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/191802157009?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

    I decided to take a moderate risk by paying 420, which is 41% above the melt value of 297, but only after reading that the 2015 uncirculated coin ended sales with mintage of 6,743, which is much less than the proof mintage of 24,959 (the big difference in mintage being due to the 3-coin set having proof coins). This price is only slightly higher than the initial release price of $407, and it comes with a MS70 slab, COA, and box.
     
  25. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    193
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The mint's website shows there's less than 100 of the UNC Hoover in stock. This along with the most recent Cumulative Sales report reveals UNC Hoover may be the lowest mintage First Spouse gold in 2014 but, within 10 coins of both Coolidge and Harding.


    Here's the mint's current stock of those coins with less than 100 remaining:

    2015 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ - EISENHWR Current Stock: 19

    2014 FS GOLD PROOF 1/2 OZ - HOOVER Current Stock: 23


    2014 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - HARDING Current Stock: 75

    2014 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - COOLIDGE Current Stock: 59

    2014 FS GOLD UNC 1/2 OZ - HOOVER Current Stock: 94


    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2016
    HistoryStudent likes this.
  26. Chester-Copperpot

    Chester-Copperpot Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    2,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I still think this series will be one of the biggest duds ever. Not bashing anyone, I just don't see it ever picking up. Ever year goes by and there's relatively no real interest in the series. For collectors I'm sure it will be nice to own a full set. As far as investment purposes go, this will probably be a loser.
     
    HistoryStudent likes this.
  27. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, there is always the gold content...
     
    HistoryStudent likes this.
  28. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    6,917
    Likes Received:
    3,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Except for Kennedy (PF & MS) ever since 2011 no MS went over 3,000 and no PF went over 3,505 in population - TOTAL.

    That maybe might (coulda woulda shoulda) make them kinda rare when the series goes dark.

    They just shut down Hoover PF after two years of sales around 2,387 (ten more than F.D.R.'s wife PF).

    I see several gold coins under 2,000 mintage now in the set.
     
  29. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    6,917
    Likes Received:
    3,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Be interesting to see what happens after Reagan goes dark, right?

    This was the biggest US Mint "MINTAGE FLOP" in 200 years...

    Sure has low record breaking MS & PF mintages since 2011...
     
  30. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes, I am with you. This has been an exhausting run and I'm glad it is coming to an end. But I wonder what people will think when they see this historic series of US gold coins completed. The numbers are astounding. How many complete sets will people be able to put together?
     
    HistoryStudent likes this.
  31. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    6,917
    Likes Received:
    3,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Imagine the LOW numbers on the so-called LABELS like PCGS Mercanti's or others. Check out the PCGS numbers
    on their site.

    Makes the Earlier extremely low available SAINTS look like they are PLENTIFUL. 200 years of coins with the US Mint and they blew this whole SERIES. They are not really commemeratives nor are they really bullion coins - they are a total ODDBALL like the Trade Dollars or the $50 Pan Americans... They have $10 on them and they are marked several ways DATE - PRESIDENTIAL NUMBER - YEARS OF SERVICE...
     
  32. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Next month Nancy Reagan wraps it up. Wonder if they will end sales at the end of the year?
     
    HistoryStudent likes this.
  33. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    6,917
    Likes Received:
    3,523
    Trophy Points:
    113
    This thing will end fast.
     
  34. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Strange how the put a 1 per household limit for the Nancy Reagan. First time ever for the series.
     
    HistoryStudent likes this.
  35. Chester-Copperpot

    Chester-Copperpot Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter Platinum Bling

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    2,470
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Intersting. Maybe only a few have been minted. Might be worth speculating on.
     
    HistoryStudent likes this.
  36. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    They actually upped the mintage limit from the usual 10,000 to 15,000, I guess in anticipation of the Nancy Reagan fans out there. The thing that is different for the first spouse series is the '1 per household' limit as opposed to the usual no limit. I wonder if this is in recognition of the recent tactics used by dealers to employ large number of shill buyers to create excess demand. For instance, the 2016 platinum proof sold out in about an hour with a limit of 1 per household and a total mintage of 10,000. Several dealers out there I am aware of got 100-200+ orders in. Still, the Spouse coins have been dead and no need for a limit as been deemed necessary up until now. Even with Jackie Kennedy they put a max mintage of 30,000 out and let the public have at it without limits. The mint is truly beyond mortal ken.
     
    HistoryStudent likes this.
  37. MrLucky

    MrLucky Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    457
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Gambling man
    Location:
    On the Fortuna II
    Linky---> https://forums.collectors.com/messa...ORDFRM=&STARTPAGE=1&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

    From another forum, apparently someone is going to sell a complete set of MS & PF First Spouse coins at Heritage soon.

    The topic is multiple pages but still an interesting read if you're into Spouses.
     
    HistoryStudent and savvydon like this.
  38. MrLucky

    MrLucky Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    457
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Occupation:
    Gambling man
    Location:
    On the Fortuna II
    From the same forum

    Series Mintages......

    MS PROOF

    2007 Martha Washington 17661 19167
    Abigail Adams 17142 17149
    Jefferson's Liberty 19823 19815
    Dolley Madison 12340 17943

    2008 Elizabeth Monroe 4462 7800
    Louisa Adams 3885 6581
    Jackson's Liberty 4609 7684
    Van Buren's Liberty 3826 6807

    2009 Anna Harrison 3645 6251
    Letitia Tyler 3240 5296
    Julia Tyler 3143 4844
    Sarah Polk 3489 5151
    Margaret Taylor 3627 4936

    2010 Abigail Fillmore 3482 6130
    Jane Pierce 3338 4775
    Buchanan's Liberty 5162 7110
    Mary Todd Lincoln 3695 6861

    2011 Eliza Johnson 2905 3887
    Julia S. Grant 2892 3943
    Lucy Hayes 2196 3868
    Lucretia Garfield 2168 3653

    2012 Alice Paul 2798 3505
    Frances Cleveland (1st Term) 2454 3158
    Carloline Harrison 2436 3046
    Frances Cleveland (2nd Term) 2425 3104

    2013 Ida McKinley 2015 2801
    Edith Roosevelt 2070 2890
    Helen Taft 1993 2598
    Ellen Wilson 1980 2511
    Edith Wilson 1974 2464

    2014 Florence Harding 1920 2372
    Grace Coolidge 1949 2395
    Lou Hoover 1908 2392
    Anna Eleanor Roosevelt 1909 2378
     
    HistoryStudent and savvydon like this.
  39. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,174
    Likes Received:
    1,067
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have Eleanor unc. last sales figure at 1886 not 1909. I don't think anything post-2011 in that list has been audited yet.
     
    HistoryStudent likes this.
  40. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    Messages:
    1,908
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Regardless of the final exact figures, these mintages are ridiculously paltry. The spouse series was started just as gold was making its move up, and I think it suffered as the price and scope of the series grew too large for many collectors. Just the same, at some point when the dust settles, I can't help but think that these coins will command a premium. We will see - time to hurry up and wait...
     
    HistoryStudent likes this.

Share This Page