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"Goldman Sachs Rules The World"

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by Silver, Sep 26, 2011.



  1. Silver

    Silver Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Gold, not Treasuries - otherwise, pretty good for teevee.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2015
    shamash, newmisty, MoMoney and 3 others like this.
  2. honu5050

    honu5050 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    then the USA go's to war with them !
     
  3. Lovemonster

    Lovemonster Seeker Seeker

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  4. needler

    needler Silver Member Silver Miner

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    You guys don't have a clue who owns the world. One day its JP Morgan then Rothchilds the next is Goldman Sachs.

    Its pretty funny how many are for capitalism but when a group of people or organization makes it to the top the same people who support capitalism scream for a redistribution of wealth.

    That's not capitalism then.
     
    earplugs likes this.
  5. Brio

    Brio Midas Member Midas Member

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    Huh. Hyping treasuries? The end is nigh? And the BBC just let him keep talking when normal SOP is to walk all over a guest and lead him into saying what's supposed to be said? I don't buy it.
     
  6. silverblood

    silverblood Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What's termed a capitalist system these days really isn't capitalism at all. It's State corporatism, a system whereby the State regulates all private business and bestows favors and grants tax breaks to the companies that keep them in power.
     
    dacrunch, Silver, andial and 2 others like this.
  7. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Some people say a man is made outta mud
    A poor man's made outta muscle and blood
    Muscle and blood and skin and bones
    A mind that's a-weak and a back that's strong

    You load sixteen tons, what do you get
    Another day older and deeper in debt
    Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
    I owe my soul to the company store

    I was born one mornin' when the sun didn't shine
    I picked up my shovel and I walked to the mine
    I loaded sixteen tons of number nine coal
    And the straw boss said "Well, a-bless my soul"

    You load sixteen tons, what do you get
    Another day older and deeper in debt
    Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
    I owe my soul to the company store

    I was born one mornin', it was drizzlin' rain
    Fightin' and trouble are my middle name
    I was raised in the canebrake by an ol' mama lion
    Cain't no-a high-toned woman make me walk the line

    You load sixteen tons, what do you get
    Another day older and deeper in debt
    Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
    I owe my soul to the company store

    If you see me comin', better step aside
    A lotta men didn't, a lotta men died
    One fist of iron, the other of steel
    If the right one don't a-get you
    Then the left one will

    You load sixteen tons, what do you get
    Another day older and deeper in debt
    Saint Peter don't you call me 'cause I can't go
    I owe my soul to the company store
     
  8. Brio

    Brio Midas Member Midas Member

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    Full blown flat out balls to the wall corporatism (or as Mussolini said 'Fascism'). Everybody bawling about socialism :haha: when corp.s get 14 trillion in tax payer dollars and every social service is cut, perhaps just maybe it isn't for the have nots.
     
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  9. silverblood

    silverblood Gold Member Gold Chaser

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  10. needler

    needler Silver Member Silver Miner

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    The narrator sounded like he was talking to kids or people who have a hard time comprehending things. I couldn't force myself to give up 16 minutes of my time listening to that.
     
  11. silverblood

    silverblood Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Socialism doesn't work either.

    What would work is truly free and unregulated markets in a Stateless society. But of course, most people can't imagine that and aren't willing to give up being slaves.
     
  12. silverblood

    silverblood Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Stefan can be pedantic, and that is sometimes annoying, but what he says makes sense. Anyway, your loss.

    And by the way, most people do have a hard time comprehending the message. They are brought up as slaves who have been taught that slavery is freedom.
     
  13. Striker

    Striker Seeker Seeker

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    Regardless of who "they" are, what we have today is so far removed from a free market capitalistic society to even suggest the JP Morgans or Goldman Sachs of the world are nothing but corporations that have done well for themselves without special favors and assistance from government is completely ignoring the true nature of business and government in this country for the complete fascism it is. Fascism is also a form of socialism except the majority of wealth goes to corporations and there private benefactors - i.e. TARP as just a single example.

    Most people here ARE FOR free market capitalism naturally making them critical of the fascist corporations and government we have! To not be critical would be in support of socialism/fascism.

    Striker
     
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  14. needler

    needler Silver Member Silver Miner

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    In that sense were slaves to any organization with profits over a billion dollars.

    Goldman,JP morgan, Rothchilds, Microsoft and the list goes on.

    Capitalism is a free market which basically means to me $h!t happens. You can't regulate a free market to the way you want it. Then its not a free market. Its socialism.

    Capitalism means whatever happens, happens socialism is to regulate it. Therefore corporatism is capitalism.

    I never live a day where I feel like a slave. I think the only people that will say they feel like one and deserve to say it is black people. They still are slaves.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  15. Striker

    Striker Seeker Seeker

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    I don't think we are disagreeing here... I agree with your statement "Capitalism means whatever happens, happens socialism is to regulate it."

    If I apply your statement to JP Morgan, Bank of America, Citigroup, Chase, GM motors, etc. they should have all been allowed to fail and therefore no longer allowed to exist and purged naturally from a free market system.

    There is no reason a multi-billion dollar company can't exist in a free market.

    Unfortunately what we have today are mega-corps of unnatural size with the ability to extract wealth directly from a populace via government and their tracks greased by the FED.

    Striker
     
  16. needler

    needler Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Well if you're referring to bail outs then yeah that's another ball game. I know there are both good and bad from it but I don't know enough about it to give a opinion of which out weighs which.

    That's where for the mean time I apply the **** happens what ever happens,happens. Regardless if its a private entity or the government.
    At the end of the day they're the same to me homosapien and people of our nation.

    And even though socialism is considered the devil in our country I'm sure there are a few good things in there and its not all bad. Though Id say most is bad lol.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  17. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    Yes needler, we know exactly who you're covering for. :yes:
     
  18. needler

    needler Silver Member Silver Miner

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    duh Zionist Jews.
     
  19. earplugs

    earplugs Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    If you have some money left over, you wouldn't get insurance? Do you have house insurance, car insurance, life insurance? If you had 1 billion dollar company, you wouldn't put some money to buy out a few politicians just in case? You know you would, and just in case you wouldn't, I'm sure the irs would happily close down your doors because of "tax fraud". you don't get to be as big as goldman without government blessing. capitalism, socialism, fascism...it's all part of the same circle. one man's republic is another man's oligarchy.
     
  20. bulloncoins

    bulloncoins Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Everyday I turn on the TV and hear that corporations are sitting on massive amounts of cash.

    Governments are broke, banks are broke, people are broke, but corporations are rolling in cash.

    Jesus, it is time to come back and kick Mr. Goldman in his Sach...
    and the rest of the money changers out of the Temple.

    Amen.
     
    anywoundedduck, Silver and Curtman like this.
  21. Carl

    Carl Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Stefan would make a good cult leader...


    .
     
  22. needler

    needler Silver Member Silver Miner

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    From the sound of it he already is one.:p
     
  23. honu5050

    honu5050 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    wipe out Goldman Sachs.. seize their a$$ets and if it helps go after the rest.
     
  24. MrPoopyPants

    MrPoopyPants New Member

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    I can't for the life of me figure out how that could make sense at all unless you're a politician in DC trying to justify your own actions.
     
  25. Not Sure

    Not Sure Banned

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    Define "socialism."

    "Socialism" is just a plastic epithet, like "terrorism." It means whatever the ideologue wants it to mean.
     
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  26. Not Sure

    Not Sure Banned

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    Capitalists use whatever means or instruments are available to amass ever more capital and power. "State corporatism" (fascism) is just another tool for their love of money. As is Marxism *.




    * Marxist states were founded, sustained, and, as was seen in the Soviet Union, dissolved by the funding and direction of "Western" financiers and other corporatists.
     
  27. Carl

    Carl Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The state is the product of capitalism and capitalism cannot exist without the state. All capitalism is, is the standardization of the rules of trade. The state is created to enforce those rules, moderate disputes and ensure the safety of those who participate.


    .
     
  28. Carl

    Carl Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    To be more precise: Government is the product of capitalism, the state is the zone within which the agreed upon rules created to facilitate capitalist trade are applied.


    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  29. goldmaster

    goldmaster Seeker Seeker

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    I like this, but I believe no -ism exists prior to the State. The State creates the -ism (capital-ism, social-ism, commun-ism, stat-ism, national-ism, rac-ism) to control the population.

    People get to choose what form of slavery they prefer, in the form of an -ism, as long as it is approved/recognized by the State.

    The ruling class is the State.

    They decide our belief systems using their education, entertainment, religious, social, and political institutions.
     
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  30. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    The guy is spot on in my opinion, I can't help but wonder if he was suicided yet.
     
  31. Silver

    Silver Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/bbc-r...tani-he-perfectly-legit-and-interview-was-not

    BBC Releases Official Statement On Alessio "The Trader" Rastani: He Is Perfectly Legit And The Interview Was Not A Hoax

    Submitted by Tyler Durden on 09/27/2011 13:58 -0400

    Zero Hedge's post yesterday of a trader telling the BBC how he (and everyone else) really feels about the current cataclysmic situation, went viral, and as of this writing, was about to generate 100,000 hits (legit ones: no slideshows were massacred in the creation of a some CPM abortion). Needless to say, the trader in question, Alessio Rastani, very suddenly and violently entered the public's eye, the most amusing side effect of which was the emergence a fringe group claiming that just because he looks like some other guy, that he is a spoof, and this was immediately used by the conventional media to attempt to discredit him. And as usually happens, this has backfired. The BBC has just released a statement confirming that Rastani is, indeed, a trader, and that all those (Forbes) who have nothing better to do than to attack the messenger and not the message, may be better advised to taking a Math 101 class and realizing why we are all scroomed, instead of polishing their character assassination skills. To everyone else who attempted to marginalize Rastani, "suck it" is not exactly what we would like to say, but it sure does the job. And to that we would like to add that just because Larry Summers is a spitting image of Jabba the Hut, that does not make him an automatic member of the "Tattoine Men" comedy troupe.

    Full BBC Statement:
    Statement on BBC News channel interview with trader Alessio Rastani
    Date: 27.09.2011

    The BBC have today issued the
    following statement regarding an interview with trader Alessio Rastani
    on the BBC News channel yesterday (Monday 26 September):

    "We've carried out detailed investigations and can't find
    any evidence to suggest that the interview with Alessio Rastani was a
    hoax. He is an independent market trader and one of a range of voices
    we've had on air to talk about the recession."

    BBC Press Office
     
  32. silverblood

    silverblood Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Socialism is an economic system in which the means of production are commonly owned or owned by the State, and the products and proceeds are shared among the owners. It usually embodies the Marxist concept "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need." It can exist apart from the State, but except in small scale, primitive, or isolated historical cases, it generally doesn't. Socialism as an economic system can be voluntary. It just usually isn't.

    In context though, I actually meant "welfare State", which is a characteristic of the political State, rather than "socialism", which is an economic system. That was how I understood Brio's use of the word "socialism" because of the numerous threads that have discussed taxation, the public education system, the State as safety-net provider, the State as owner of common infrastructure like roads and waterways, and so forth. "Socialism" is the (incorrect) term most people use to describe those wealth redistribution measures that States impose coercively to "promote the general welfare".

    Do you think that a State policy of coercive taxation and wealth redistribution is fair and works well and equitably for all of society? Do you suppose that is what the US constitution intended to "promote the general welfare"? I don't.

    What I find interesting is that nearly all States that are considered "western capitalist" rather than "socialist" are truly social welfare States, to one degree or another. Mostly to a very large degree. Of course, most socialist States are too.

    Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and are operated for profit. The economic system does not produce the State. Capitalism is capable of functioning independently of the State.


    Rarely does the textbook definition of an economic system exactly fit reality. The more the State regulates and interferes, the less free and private and market driven the system becomes. At some point it stops resembling its definition, even though the means of production are still nominally private and it may still be called capitalism. That's the case in all of "capitalist" economies today, that they aren't purely capitalist. Because of the interference of the State, all capitalist economies today incorporate many elements of socialism.


    By what means do you believe that capitalism produces the State?
     
  33. Oldmansmith

    Oldmansmith Midas Member Midas Member

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    What we have is "corporatism," as distinct from socialism or capitalism. Corporations control the state, hence set up laws favoring corporations over individuals. A "free market" is impossible in this situation.
     
  34. Brio

    Brio Midas Member Midas Member

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    The 'news' clip is just paid advertising for treasuries.
     
  35. Curtman

    Curtman Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Corporate Fascism.
     
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  36. Carl

    Carl Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    How do you figure capitalism can work without law, what about patents and copyrights? Capitalism cannot function without the uniformity of law provided and administered by a third party, the government or the state.

    Capitalism means (in its original context) capital formation and investment, it is a byproduct of a market economy. Capitalism left to its own devices, and in collusion with the state, is what we're experiencing today. It is not good, it is not moral, it is not just and all you accomplish by calling a free market economy "capitalism" is denigrating the concept of free markets.

    Now, keep that point in mind and review Stefan's narrative, he is talking about the effects of rampant capitalism. And if you happen to visit a few Marxist web sites, you will see Stefan's words repeated almost verbatum in condemnation of capitalism. Google "Origins of Capitalism"

    Again, capitalism cannot function without law, administered through the state and by force. The majority of all law is written in service to capitalism.

    In contrast, a free market economy can function without the state and without the state to protect the capitalist interests, there would be very little capitalism involved.



    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  37. silverblood

    silverblood Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Capitalism is simply and only an economic system that is characterized by private ownership of corporate goods, by investment decisions and resource allocation that is determined in the private sphere, and with production, prices, and distribution of goods influenced primarily by competition in a free market.

    Whatever it is you're talking about Carl, it's not capitalism. You appear to be conflating or confusing capitalism with intellectual property law and copyright protection schemes. That certainly requires collusion with the State. Intellectual property is a myth, a construct of that collusion between private business and the State that is used in part to justify the State's coercive regulation and protection racket. But State involvement is not intrinsic to capitalism nor required for capitalism to exist or to flourish. Capitalism only requires capital, labor, resources, plus demand for goods and services and a willingness on the part of producers to supply them.

    I agree that such collusion is not good or moral, but then, the State itself is neither good nor moral. A free market cannot possibly exist when the State regulates the market. Freedom is incompatible with coercion.

    I know you won't agree with this. All of your arguments are carefully crafted to justify the existence of the State, which you have made clear in the past you regard as indispensible.
     
  38. e123easd

    e123easd Seeker Seeker

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    I got the same thing from it. Notice how the, "safe" asset is always treasuries instead of something tangible like PMs? Also he notes the dollar. If you ask me the next thing to implode is going to be the dollar and treasuries. If you are looking for, "safe" assets in terms of equities then you have to go to asia. Ultimately, that's where the wealth of the world is flowing. Its going from the USA and Europe to Asia. Plain and simple.

    The USA is well on its way to being the next Greece. Just look what happened to the Greece bond holders. Slaughtered.
     
  39. Carl

    Carl Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What better way to get the sheep to back our interests than to convence them that what they do in pursuit of happiness is what we do while enslaving them. ~ Capitalism.

    You know, before the word capitalism was coined as a term of derision for those banker fed, incorporated moneyed interests that worked in collusion with government to deprive others of their property as well as their right to pursue happiness (liberty) and sometimes their very life, they called the prosperity that sprang up around free markets here in the U.S., Americanism. Of course, that was before the industrial revolution took hold and the capitalist co-opted our free markets and the pre-industrial writings of Adam Smith to justify their capitalist theft.


    .
     
  40. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    My impression from that part was he had to recommend some kind of paper or he would have been instantly branded a kook.

    Remember we are less than 1% and the otherr 99% thinks we don't get it.

    Thanks progressive education and teevee!! ~ :bird:
     

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