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Grand Jury Does Not Indict in Cop Death-Choking Case

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by FoundingFathers, Dec 3, 2014.



  1. FoundingFathers

    FoundingFathers Founder Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    This was all over a vendor not paying NYC's ridiculous cigarette tax. What exactly is excessive force?


    ZH has a good recap/updates...

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-...ls-indict-white-nypd-cop-chokehold-death-case


    A Staten Island grand jury has decided not to indict white NYPD officer Daniel Panateleo, according to NY1, who allegedly used a banned chokehold and killed Eric Garner, a 400lb black man, who was stopped on suspicion of selling loose cigarettes. Eric Garner's son has called for peace and hopes there is no Ferguson-like response...
     
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  2. 917601

    917601 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Seems there is no doubt on this one, Fox News ran the recorded live video, looks like the cops attacked en masse this poor fellow, you could even hear the man screaming " I can't breathe" while the cop was choking him. Disgusting, the cops ( all of them at the scene) need to be charged, let a jury decide.
     
  3. Fanakapan

    Fanakapan Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Grand Jury again, dont you blokes ever wonder why All the other Common Law systems no longer use them ?

    With every case they look more like a device to prevent the Truth being found in a Court by skilled advocates. I'd imagine that out in Pickle Vendor land, they really are just a buffer to prevent the Wrong folks finding themselves in Court :)
     
  4. Ahillock

    Ahillock A nobody Mother Lode

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    And how would you propose a society brings charges upon a potential suspect? A prosecutor and their potential bias and need to reach certain numbers and be persuaded by public opinion?
     
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  5. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Man in chokehold death had no throat damage: autopsy
    By Larry Celona and Kathianne BonielloJuly 19, 2014 | 11:13pm

    The forbidden chokehold used by a cop to take down a Staten Island man in a deadly encounter Thursday did not damage his windpipe or neck bones, sources said.

    The preliminary autopsy findings could be welcome news for Police Officer Daniel Pantaleo, now named as the cop who wrapped his arm around Eric Garner’s throat while trying to *arrest him.

    “If you’re the defense counsel in this case, this is very good news, because it’s consistent with what appears to be the case — that they didn’t mean to hurt him,” said John Jay College of Criminal Justice Professor Eugene O’Donnell.

    But a source close to the Medical Examiner’s investigation said coroners are also investigating whether the chokehold still contributed to Garner’s death by aggravating his pre-existing conditions of obesity, asthma and possible heart disease. He died of cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.

    “If an obese person with co-existing medical problems can’t get good oxygenation to begin with, then a chokehold could put him over the edge,” and lead to a homicide finding, the source said.

    Pantaleo has been placed on modified duty, his shield and gun taken. Saturday, cops gathered evidence at his home in the Great Kills section of Staten Island, leaving with a long, narrow box and three bags.

    The eight-year NYPD veteran, along with Police Officer Justin Damico — a four-year vet now on desk duty — had been on patrol for “conditions” such as drug use, public intoxication and illegal cigarette sales at about 5 p.m. Thursday when they spotted the 6-foot-5, 350-pound Garner at his usual perch at Bay Street and Victory Boulevard in Tompkinsville.

    The cops saw him sell a “loosie” to a man in a red shirt, law-enforcement sources said. Garner was known to hawk untaxed cigarettes for 50 cents apiece, and had eight arrests for the offense.

    Witnesses claimed Garner had done nothing but break up a fight prior to the officers arriving.

    “The guy got punched in the back, and [Garner] jumped up to break it up,” said Ramsey Orta, 22. “I know he didn’t sell a cigarette because the guy in the red shirt, who got punched, asked me for a cigarette.”

    In the videotaped confrontation, Garner is heard hollering at the two cops, “Every time you see me, you try to mess with me. I’m tired of it. This ends today.”

    As the cops move in, Garner protests, “Please don’t touch me.”

    The plainclothed, 5-foot-10 Pantaleo then steps behind Garner, wraps his arm around his neck and pulls him to the sidewalk. As other cops join the scrum, Pantaleo is seen pushing the suspect’s head against the sidewalk as Garner repeatedly gasps, “I can’t breathe! I can’t breathe!”

    NYPD protocol prohibits the use of chokeholds.

    ‘IF YOU’RE THE DEFENSE COUNSEL IN THIS CASE, THIS IS VERY GOOD NEWS, BECAUSE IT’S CONSISTENT WITH WHAT APPEARS TO BE THE CASE — THAT THEY DIDN’T MEAN TO HURT HIM.’

    - John Jay College Professor Eugene O’Donnell

    Even without damage to the throat, “the chokehold alone is pretty damning,” said civil rights lawyer Ronald Kuby, who added that it showed “criminally bad judgment.”

    But Patrick Lynch, head of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association, urged New Yorkers to “[give] our police the benefit of the doubt when a tragedy occurs in the performance of their duty.”

    “The department’s modification of this police officer under these circumstances is a completely unwarranted, kneejerk reaction for political reasons and nothing more,” Lynch added.

    “It is a decision by the department that effectively pre-judges this case and denies the officer the very benefit of a doubt that has long been part of the social contract that allows police officers to face the risks of this difficult and complex job. It is a bad decision by the department that is absolutely wrong.”

    O’Donnell says criminal charges could hinge on intent.

    “What did the cop mean to do? Did he mean to hurt him? Did he just mean to bring the guy into custody?” O’Donnell said.

    Another expert said Garner’s health will play “a huge role” in the case.

    “You’re looking at a guy with a compromised cardiovascular system,” said the attorney, who did not want to be identified.

    The size difference between Garner and the much smaller officers will also be considered, according to O’Donnell.

    “With large people it’s one of the difficulties the cops have,” he said. “It’s not really that the guy’s resisting, but It’s just that they’re harder to cuff.”

    The shocking death prompted 250 people to rally on Staten Island Saturday, as Garner’s outraged family marched with the Rev. Al Sharpton and several politicians from a Jersey Street community center to the 120th Precinct station house in St. George.

    “A cigarette, really? A cigarette? Are you serious?” Garner’s sister, Ellisha Flagg, told the crowd.

    “Many people who own stores sell illegal cigarettes. They lose their *license, not their lives.”

    Garner’s mother, Gwen Carr, said, “They shouldn’t have did this to my son. My son never [hurt] a soul. Never.”

    Some of the marchers chanted “NYPD KKK.”

    The family took a condolence call in the morning from Mayor Bill de Blasio, who delayed an Italian vacation by a day because of the incident.

    He “reassured the family that the city is doing everything possible to ensure a full and thorough investigation,” said spokeswoman Marti Adams.

    Garner, who had more than 30 offenses on his rap sheet and three open illegal cigarette-sales cases, was described as a gentle giant. “Our encounters with him were always polite and professional,” said Legal Aid lawyer Christopher Pisciotta.

    Garner’s wife, Esaw Garner, broke down in tears and had to be carried off stage during Sharpton’s National Action Network meeting Saturday morning, where the activist warned that Garner’s death is “a real test to see where policies are in the city now, and whether the change we feel has occurred, has occurred.

    “They will try to scandalize the deceased,” Sharpton said.

    Sharpton’s group will pay for Garner’s funeral Wednesday in Bethel Baptist Church, Brooklyn.

    Additional reporting by Georgett Roberts, Jennifer Bain, Michael Gartland and Kevin Fasick

    http://nypost.com/2014/07/19/man-in-chokehold-death-had-no-throat-damage-autopsy/
     
  6. argentos

    argentos Former Boat Owner Gold Chaser

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    The choice of public prosecutors by public election seems to be the big problem in the USA. They have to pander to public opinion and political pressure if they want re-election.

    Our (English Law) prosecutors are appointed by The Crown which is far from being a perfect arrangement, but it does appear to throw up fewer egregious prosecution decisions than the US system.
     
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  7. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    What boggles my mind is that the idiots on the grand jury let a badged up murdering perv (NY settled a suit against this sicko for playing with 2 men's balls during an arrest) even though they saw what he did to Mr Garner. Are they scared shit-less of cops? Did they not hear Mr Garner plead "I can't breathe" as the psycho cop literally chocked the life out of him? And all because they "suspected" Mr Garner of selling loose cigs (which he wasn't doing when the cop murdered him.)

    Now here's a kicker................the murdering scum actually tried to apologize to his victims family and said "they were in his prayers." Some how I don't think the victim's family brought that crapola (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ccept-personal-condolences.html#ixzz3KvbMHkdk)
     
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  8. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Never served on a grand jury but I suspect that a lot of people who do are gullible and easily lead by "authority figures." A good number of them are probably of the mind set that "cops can do no wrong." And some are afraid of cops retaliating against them should they go against the cops.

    Really sad when you think about it. In this case a badged up murdering perv literally got away with murder.
     
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  9. FoundingFathers

    FoundingFathers Founder Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    He died due to the enforcement of absurd statist laws and taxes. Thanks for bringing up the cop's history searcher, funny how the article that Goldhedge posted doesn't mention that - only the 30 offenses on Mr Garner's "rap sheet", all having to do with avoiding the cig tax.
     
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  10. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    I've been following this for a while: http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?67707-NYC-Cops-Murder-Married-Father-Of-6

    There's some info on the killer perv in the thread.
     
  11. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    [h=1]'H*** no I don't accept his apologies': Wife's fury after cop who killed Eric Garner offers family his condolences[/h]
    • Esaw Garner, 46, spoke out at a press conference in New York alongside Garner's mother Gwen Carr and Rev. Al Sharpton on Wednesday evening
    • All three vowed to continue the fight despite a grand jury decision not to indict the officer, 29-year-old Daniel Pantaleo
    • Pantaleo was reportedly 'distraught' just after Garner's death and extended his condolences to Garner's family following the jury's decision


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-offers-family-condolences.html#ixzz3KvjHFY3o
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  12. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    I agree 100%.

    If you or anyone else is interested, this thread contains 100's of examples of cops getting away with murder http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthr...lture-Of-Cops&highlight=badged+serial+killers
     
  13. Ahillock

    Ahillock A nobody Mother Lode

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    No thanks. We already fought to get away from your Crown system once. I'd rather have a group of my peers decide whether I should be charged (regardless of its imperfection) than have some political hack appointed by some politician decide it.
     
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  14. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    [h=1]Who Is Daniel Pantaleo? NYPD Officer Who Killed Eric Garner Was Accused Of Misconduct Before Chokehold Death[/h]
    By Thomas Barrabi@TBarrabit.barrabi@ibtimes.com on December 03 2014 4:38 PM




    [​IMG]


    A photo of Eric Garner is displayed at a makeshift memorial where he died during an arrest in July, in the borough of Staten Island in New York City Dec. 3, 2014. Reuters





    New York police officer Daniel Pantaleo expressed remorse Wednesday for the death of Eric Garner, the 43-year-old unarmed black man he killed with a chokehold in July. Pantaleo’s statement was released minutes after a Richmond County grand jury in Staten Island opted not to indict him in connection with Garner’s death.

    “I became a police officer to help people and to protect those who can’t protect themselves. It is never my intention to harm anyone and I feel very bad about the death of Mr. Garner. My family and I include him and his family in our prayers and I hope that they will accept my personal condolences for their loss,” Pantaleo said in a statement, according to NBC New York’s Steven Bognar.

    Garner died July 17 after an altercation with a group of NYPD officers attempting to arrest him for allegedly selling cigarettes illegally. Pantaleo restrained Garner with a chokehold, a maneuver that the NYPD banned in 1993. Garner, who suffered from asthma, lost consciousness at the scene and suffered a heart attack en route to a hospital. A New York City medical examiner ruled Garner’s death a homicide by “compression of the neck.”

    A Staten Island grand jury considered several possible criminal charges against Pantaleo, including criminally negligent homicide and manslaughter. “Oh my God, are you serious? Garner’s widow, Esaw Garner, told the New York Daily News after the decision. “I’m very disappointed. You can see in the video that [Pantaleo] was dead wrong.”

    Pantaleo was an eight-year NYPD veteran at the time of the incident, the Associated Press reported. The NYPD stripped him of his badge and gun on July 19 and relegated him to desk duty.

    New York police union president Patrick Lynch defended Pantaleo in August and said that the officer was “very distraught” over Garner’s death. “No one wants to have to deal with the fact that someone died because of something they had to do. It’s a terrible loss,” Lynch said.

    Pantaleo was sued twice in the past for alleged racially motivated misconduct while on the job. Two black men accused him in 2012 of subjecting them to an illegal strip search in broad daylight. Pantaleo purportedly “tapped” each man’s testicles during the search, which he claimed was a bid to discover any contraband, the Daily News reported. The suit was settled last January.

    In a second lawsuit, a man named Rylawn Walker accused a group of NYPD officers that included Pantaleo of arresting him despite the fact that he was “committing no crime at the time and was not acting in a suspicious manner” and of including misleading data on a police report to justify the arrest, the Staten Island Advance reported. Charges against the man were ultimately dismissed.

    Vid at link
    http://www.ibtimes.com/who-daniel-p...ed-eric-garner-was-accused-misconduct-1733094
     
  15. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  16. argentos

    argentos Former Boat Owner Gold Chaser

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    I may be wrong but I believe your forefathers "threw the baby out with the bathwater" when they adapted English Law to suit the people of the USofA.

    Recent publicity shows how well your Grand Juries function and you have political hack prosecutors leading those juries by the nose.
     
  17. Krag

    Krag Planet earth Platinum Bling

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  18. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    In the Ferguson case the prosecutor's father had been killed by a black man. Hard to understand why he was allowed to go anywhere near the grand jury.
     
  19. Ahillock

    Ahillock A nobody Mother Lode

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    The prosecutor is a democrat so it was ok. He is one of them.
     
  20. Ahillock

    Ahillock A nobody Mother Lode

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    Maybe read a little more about our 5th Amendment. I personally like it. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution


    Recent publicity? The animals wouldn't have been happy with anything less than an innocent police officer being lunched for doing his job. I'd rather protect the innocent man from the animals and FSA.

    Also read about Blackstone's formulation which is the basis of much of our system of laws: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_formulation
     
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  21. honu5050

    honu5050 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    a movement started long ago to clean up what the mob cia mic started 11/22/1963 even prior to this date dope was placed in the ghetto's "BUT" was to remain there . it naturally spread out to da people who put it in the ghetto. ironically in a what gos around comes around manor it came to their children "BUT" bucoup money was made by all with JFK out of the way the mic CIA mob cops politicians prospered n' y'all paid in tax's etc. 9/11 was the end of it n' TPTB fear y'all now so they kill nig's etc to put fear in ya a psy op tactic. believe it or not the intelligence branch's work with the mic comprised of several ethnic groups but Isrial Leeds point the big gold. :cool1:
     
  22. TRYNEIN

    TRYNEIN Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The problem isn't the common law, it's the infiltration of the BAR attourneys
     
  23. TRYNEIN

    TRYNEIN Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The highest form of complaint--even higher than a grand jury indictment--is a sworn affidavit placed into the public record by one of the sovereign People. Actions commence in the county court (common law) by affidavit of the sovereign. There is no need for a grand jury to be convened and no cause for the police to go out and investigate-all that's required is for a sovereign to write an affidavit and declare "This crime occurred to me" and put it into the county recorder's office.



    A landmark case for establishing who the People are is:
    Kemper vs. State, 138 Southwest 1025 (issued in 1911), which says on Page 1043, § 33:
    One sovereign does not need to tell another that he is sovereign. He is sovereign by his very existence. The rule in America is that the American people are the sovereigns.
     
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  24. blueice

    blueice Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    The brother did resist, however, it should never
    resulted in his death..

    As, Founding Father noted, all over selling single smokes! There is so much crime
    and this represents a chargeable offense..:questionmark: Both the city and the polease
    are following petty policies because they wish to let the plebes know whom is in charge.

    The chock holder should have been charged with manslaughter and the city sued.
     
  25. TRYNEIN

    TRYNEIN Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Selling packs, cartons or even cases of cigarettes is illegal due to tax laws, but selling individual cig's is a joke
     
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  26. blueice

    blueice Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    They driving millions of dollars of smokes into New Yorke
    and only a single or two arrests...
     
  27. FoundingFathers

    FoundingFathers Founder Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Meanwhile, Jon Corzine and a slew of felon bankers haven't a worry in the world.
     
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  28. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    There was a little more to it than Mr Garner selling loosies. It's called "contempt of cop." As far as all the cops who were there were concerned..........Mr Garner did not bow his head to them. He had committed "contempt of cop." And they punished him for it.
     
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  29. TRYNEIN

    TRYNEIN Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Well, it appears they have eliminated the John Gotty of the tobacco smuggling racket..

    You can now sleep safely tonight
     
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  30. argentos

    argentos Former Boat Owner Gold Chaser

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    OK, Ahillock. I'll shut my trap on this!
     
  31. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    [h=1]Police are killing even more people than FBI figures show, as official tally misses HUNDREDS of fatal shootings[/h]
    • More than 550 killings by police not included in FBI figures between 2007 and 2012
    • Analysis of 105 police departments shows there were 1,800 such deaths over the five-year period
    • But this was 45 per cent more than FBI's figure for those departments


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...s-HUNDREDS-fatal-shootings.html#ixzz3Kx6sMvsB
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  32. Ahillock

    Ahillock A nobody Mother Lode

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    No, please don't. I might not agree with you but you should feel free to voice your opinion. I don't want you to feel you can't state your opinion. I just don't happen to agree on this particular case.

    I personally like our grand jury use. Might seem foreign or a mistake by outsiders, but I like it. I also like our Electoral College, which many outsiders (Europeans especially) thought was a disgrace during the Bush election. There is a sense to some of the stuff we do over here. :)
     
  33. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  34. FoundingFathers

    FoundingFathers Founder Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    EXCLUSIVE: Man who filmed Eric Garner in chokehold says grand jury was rigged
    Ramsey Orta — who recorded the July 17 incident in which Officer Daniel Pantaleo put Eric Garner in a chokehold shortly before he died on his cellphone — told the Daily News the grand jury ‘wasn’t fair from the start,’ and claims his testimony only lasted 10 minutes. ‘I think they already had their minds made up,’ he said.

    Orta said he arrived at the Richmond County courthouse on Sept. 1 prepared to be grilled for hours about what happened on July 17, when cops confronted Garner on a Tompkinsville street for selling unlicensed cigarettes.

    Ten minutes later, Orta said he was done.

    “When I went to the grand jury to speak on my behalf, nobody in the grand jury was even paying attention to what I had to say,” Orta said. “People were on their phones, people were talking. I feel like they didn't give (Garner) a fair grand jury."


    NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
    “People was on their phones, people were having side conversations, like it was just a regular day to them,” he said of the jurors.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...rigged-man-filmed-chokehold-article-1.2033257
     
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  35. rockriver

    rockriver Seeker Seeker

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    if someone is confronted by a group of gun totin cops and they want to arrest you, why resist???
    unless you are going to fight for your life..l.
    in that case.... you must have done something mighty evil.

    nope the little cop had to jump to get a hold of that big ole bear... of a man.
    and he didn't want to quit resisting..

    now folks want to send the cop to jail.. nope... I got to vote against you.
    bear wanted to wrestle with a bunch of cops.... that works on sat. night wrestling at the arena, but in real life
    it can be a real bad idea.
    and real bad things can result..
     
  36. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    From the horse's mouth. Here's some of the comments made by sicko cops concerning the grand jury's decision:

    No indictment in NYPD in-custody death

    Justice Department official said federal authorities would conduct their own investigation into the July 17 death

    http://www.policeone.com/Crowd-Contr...custody-death/
     
  37. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  38. Fanakapan

    Fanakapan Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Here we go, more redundant crapola about George III and the British crown ?

    Here are the facts, the Founders simply threw into the faces of the Brits (weren't they all Brits then ?) the Agitprop that was being bandied about by those in power at the time. When the war was won, and the colonist elite replaced the elite back in Blighty, they introduced a Constitution that was nothing more than what had been in force here in Great Britain since the 1680's. The big difference was, that they, the Founders, thought that by codifying a Constitution, they could get round the joker in the pack that we still have here in the UK, of a parliament not being bound by the actions of any predecessor parliament.

    So far so good, but what they could not have foreseen was the fact that the Constitution has become akin to what might have been brought down from Mt Sinai, and as much set in stone. Trouble is, its essentially an instrument for regulating the life of a 17th century state. And whilst the rest of the world that stayed pink on the map has moved on, and benefited from changes to the English system that evolved at a glacial pace to cater towards progress, you blokes in the USA still imagine that an instrument set out in the 1780's contains all the answers to the ill's of a 21st century life.

    Essentially, and even though this latest case is in NYC, the Grand Jury system is a boon to the 90% of the USA that still runs on a localised system, with all the opportunities for graft and corruption that the seeming love affair with localism that Americans have, brings.

    There's only one place that the 'Truth' has any chance of being 'Discovered', and thats in the cockpit of an open court, with the evidence being examined by those who have the training to be able to be able to cut through human frailty and self interest.

    Contrast that with the Grand Jury where the Volunteers Must be unqualified, meet in secret, and owing to the time demanded of the duty, can be guaranteed to come up with predictable decisions.

    And of course in the latest two decisions, its entirely predictable that your Peers have decided that in any confrontation between a darkie and a policeman, then its self evident that the darkie must have deserved what he got ?

    There's no doubt that substantial numbers of the black community in the USA behave in very stereotypical ways ? But I'd have to wonder that if they continue to get treated like niggers in the eye of the law, then its likely that more than a few will have trouble seeing the benefits of not behaving like niggers ? (For those who want to get bent out of shape about the use of the 'N' word :eek: Consider the context :) )

    As things stand the Grand Jury seems to be nothing more than some fusable link that ensures that policemen can be assured of not facing realistic judicial sanction if they choose to deal with black folks in a 'Robust' or even prejudiced manner. And understandably the black community are getting pissed about it :)
     
    argentos likes this.
  39. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    TAEZZAR and Ahillock like this.
  40. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    ace ventura.jpg
     
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