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HEADS UP! Near-perfect counterfeit PAMP Suisse Bars Popping Up In Canada

Discussion in 'Purchasing Precious Metals' started by JayDubya, Dec 21, 2016.



  1. JayDubya

    JayDubya Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Near-perfect counterfeit gold shines light on ongoing crime

    http://canadiancoinnews.com/near-perfect-counterfeit-gold-shines-light-ongoing-crime/

    By Jesse Robitaille


    [​IMG]
    A number of counterfeit PAMP bullion bars have been sold to dealers across Canada in the past several months

    After a spurt of counterfeit gold bars came on the market this fall, some dealers are calling for the Canadian Association of Numismatic Dealers (CAND) to implement a warning system for its members.

    Organized in 1975, CAND is a non-profit association of about 50 professional numismatists. This September, three of its members were duped into buying fake gold. Willard Burton, co-owner of Brampton’s B & W Coins and Tokens, said he and two other Ontario-based numismatic dealers were recently “tricked into buying counterfeit” bullion. “Here in Brampton, in the past three weeks, we’ve bought three gold pieces,” Burton said in September. “I brought them down and had them assayed by Guardian Gold, and they were all fake.”

    The supposedly Swiss-made gold – one coin and two one-ounce bars sealed in what appeared to be legitimate packaging – looked “perfect,” Burton said. “Their weight was perfect, but there was only three per cent gold in them. The rest was a mixture.” The gold was purchased by B & W Coins on Sept. 25, when a woman entered the store on 345 Queen St. W., in Brampton. “We have her name, address and a phone number on the bill, whether they are legitimate. We’ll give that information to the police,” said Burton, who added fellow co-owner Doug Graham thought the dubious gold seller looked “legitimate.” “Whether she bought it from someone else, who knows,” added Burton.

    THREE DEALERS STRUCK

    Two other Ontario-based dealers – Ted’s Collectables in Paris, Ont., and N & K Coins in Brantford – also purchased counterfeit bars (one platinum and another gold) this fall. Ted Bailey, owner of Ted’s Collectables, said the platinum bar his business purchased was held in packaging appeared to be produced by PAMP (Produits Artistiques Métaux Précieux) in Switzerland. “I figured it was one,” said Bailey, who added the bar was sold by a young-looking man. “It says ‘Suisse’ right on the package, but it’s phoney.”

    Bailey said the counterfeit bar he purchased is mostly made of copper and weighs less than an ounce.

    “Lots have been sold, apparently,” added Bailey, about the recent spurt of counterfeit bullion. He said the culprits have yet to be caught.

    FAKE ALERTS NEEDED?

    Another Canadian dealer, Sandy Campbell, said he hasn’t been involved in the ongoing police investigation regarding the counterfeit gold bars; however, he drew an interesting parallel to a recent diamond-swapping theft. “What is so interesting about this scam is during the same period we had jewel thieves crossing the country, switching diamonds with many jewellers,” said Campbell, who’s the owner of Proof Positive Coins in Baddeck, N.S.

    On Oct. 20, York Regional Police arrested an Ontario couple for stealing a $10,000 diamond from W. Smith and Co. Fine Jewellers in Saint John, N.B.; however, the couple was also suspected in similar cases in other jurisdictions. “The same two suspects appear to have been involved in a similar theft in Charlottetown and we also received information a similar theft had taken place at a jewellery store in Fredericton,” Saint John Police Sgt. Chuck Breen told CBC News in October.Grigori Zaharov, 70, and Natalia Feldman, 44, were taken into custody after a Canada-wide warrant for their arrest. They were caught only a week after police began their investigation; compare that with the people selling counterfeit bullion, who were able to cross the country with relative ease.

    “The bar crooks started in the east and made their way to the west coast in about a month, scamming in excess of $100,000 from the dealer community, reaching uninformed victims and giggling as they exited the storefronts,” said Campbell. “This also tells me associations such as CAND perhaps need to have a hard look at perhaps implementing a ‘Fake Alert’ to eliminate a continuance of crime against dealers.”
     
  2. Mr Paradise

    Mr Paradise Midas Member Midas Member

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    Don't ever buy anything in an assay card, you're asking for trouble if you do.
     
  3. Someone_else

    Someone_else Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Unless the "mixture" is tungsten, osmium, or iridium, the size will be wrong.
    If I am buying platinum, palladium, or rhodium from a reputable seller, I probably won't object to the card and packaging. But anything from Joe Blow is coming out of the plastic and carefully measured before money changes hands. The plastic and/or grading card goes in the trash. Where it belongs.
     
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  4. ~BS

    ~BS Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    This is something I already reported on in my other thread a while back... The counterfeit pamp and perth mint bars are VERY good nowadays.

    The other week I purchased a gold bar from this seller below. I told him straight up that I would be testing the bar for authenticity, and if there's any reason that the bar might be fake, he should refund me. He ended up refunding me.

    If you look at his feedback, he sold at least 10 bars already to investors (suckers) that gave him positive feedback.

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/nouse.94/m.html?LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

    Of course I can't say for certain that his bars are fake without actually testing them, but if they are legitimate why would he have an issue with me testing it?
     
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  5. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Wow!...
     
  6. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Gold bars used to be safe. I ignore them now and have for the past few years.
     
  7. 97guns

    97guns Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Do you guys think big online dealers use an XRF gun, spectrometer when bringing in stuff from sellers?
     
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  8. the_shootist

    the_shootist I self identify as a black '69 Camaro Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    I stopped buying bars about a year ago. Too much risk. Like Irons, I ignore them now too.
     
  9. savvydon

    savvydon Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Not sure, but some of them have been advertising/selling something called Sigma Metalytics that measures the resistivity of various metals and seems to show promise with a variety of coins and small bars.
     
  10. 97guns

    97guns Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I would think that if they're selling it they're using it, I'm sure they don't want to get burned. If I was any kind of dealer I'd have one for sure
     
  11. historyrepete

    historyrepete Silver Member Silver Miner

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    As posted in a previous thread, I've got a bar and and a numi in a box that i disdain. Lesson learned. And as far as i know they're not fakes. I like to fondle. Sip whiskey stack and fondle.
     
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  12. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    I drink fondle and stack too
    not necessarily in that order but as far as fakes go:belly laugh:

    I'm leaning on a few lazy dealers here, I mean, come on, employees who don't have a full stake, lazy
    'cause
    If I'm buying, I'm verifying authenticity to MY satisfaction, not the sellers, and if that means I tear it out of the holder, measure, weigh, measure again, call a friend, buy a vowel, whatever it takes to make sure I'm getting what I'm paying for OR, to turn it around, at least a Return with a Full Refund Guarantee when buying online and if I'm not certain, I'm not buying

    There ARE ways to at least let the lazy employees know what a real Pamp Bar looks like, weighs and feels by keeping a real one available for visual identification assistance
    They are dealers and should be held responsible to a degree but I hate to blame the victims so I'll stop and just say I'll use this as an example to continue my current ways:2 thumbs up:

    Caveat Emptor and to the criminals, you'll eventually get caught and end up as someone's lil squeeze

    or dead sooner than you'd expected:hunt::bombs 9:




    a bit better :i
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  13. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    It was only a matter of time before the chinese got good enough at faking gold and silver products that there is a significant part of the market now that is fake. You can tell yourself those fancy name brand plastic slabbed coins with the hologram and bar code are safe but deep down you have to know at least 1/3 of the ones circulating are fake.

    Think about it. If you were a counterfeiter what would be the best way to sell your product where it will be accepted but not exposed to being weighed and measured? Yep, and fools lap them up.

    I buy coins whenever I can and never worry about what I am getting because I never buy anything that is sealed in plastic.
    Ait tites are fine, pop the coin out and check it. Sealed slab? Not interested.

    .
     
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  14. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    I'll take an Ehhhh please
     
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  15. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    If I was in the fiat paper money / digital money business I would fund the fakes and circulate them into the market to undermine the historic standard of safety.
     
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  16. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    LCS in the area finally got one last year, hes found several fakes since, some from pawn shops he buys from that weren't using them
     
  17. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  18. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    I found two counterfeit stage coach bars I had for a few years going thru some old shit, they came from the lcs that went out of business a few years back, was doing a magnet test as they looked funky and wam they grabbed the magnet.
     
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  19. davycoppitt

    davycoppitt Seeker Seeker

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    This is one main reason I like stacking scrap. Once you get good you know exactly what you got. File away all you want and wont hurt the value. Cherry pick and relist on ebay, get over spot, pour that into more scrap. When you need quick cash no worries when you send it to the refiner. If things do ever go south you wont stick out when it comes time to trade. "this was my grandmas ring" would you trade for......
     
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  20. historyrepete

    historyrepete Silver Member Silver Miner

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    What kinda scrap we talking bout?
     
  21. davycoppitt

    davycoppitt Seeker Seeker

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    Jewelry or dental gold.
     
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  22. saskgold

    saskgold New Member

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    I stack jewellery as well, pretty much all was bought for way under spot. I keep the nicest pieces to stack and sell the broken junk to my LCS buddy
     
  23. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    Agreed
    Think like a criminal and some of it makes some sense
    Alibaba would be happy to help fulfill those dreams

    For a Fee
    Bitcoins will do just fine

    LOL


    what do you do with all the "costume" that's left over from your hunt?



    :) :)
     
  24. saskgold

    saskgold New Member

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    I don't get a lot of costume, I have my loupe on my car keys lol. The odd time I have to buy the works....I give it away to local barmaid or donate to local thrift...money goes to charity
     
  25. Thecrensh

    Thecrensh Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    so when counterfeiters make all gold/silver suspect and cash is seized, will we have a choice but to submit to the evil one-world currency (I think currently spoken about as the universal income?)
     

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