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How Angry Will You Be If The Republicans In Congress Do Not Repeal Obamacare?

Discussion in 'Politics Forum (Local/National/World)' started by Scorpio, Feb 28, 2017.



  1. TAEZZAR

    TAEZZAR LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH Midas Member Site Supporter

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    AND no "permission slip" is required !
     
  2. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Screw ISIS! Just make 'em dead and install the toilets...with no politicians funding and supplying CIASIS they will just disappear anyway
     
  3. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    In other views, I agree with Fanakapan...Wow! Did you feel that?!? I think my world just shook! Lol! Just funnin' ya Fan!

    We already have the required tax structures in place:
    1) STOP ALL foreign aid (yes, this includes to Israel also) and use these monies for healthcare
    2) ALL "sin taxes" to health care ( BONUS: this will hurt the libtards big time) such as alcohol/tobacco/etc.
    3) this would be good use for taxes on federally LEGALIZED marijuana. The fact is governments will NOT, at this time, do the right thing and decriminalize marijuana so might as well get something somewhat useful from government stupidity.
    4) since cars kill and injure more people than most any other product available might as well use some of those taxes along with a portion of the gasoline/fuel taxes for healthcare
    5) trim the "public education" budgets of ALL gov agencies and use those funds for healthcare
    6) trim the military budget of such things as "experimental drugs" used on soldiers and any depleted uranium munitions and use those monies for healthcare
    7) trim the budget of HHS and use those funds for healthcare
    I'm sure more could be found if necessary.

    I might persuaded to accept certain NEW taxes ONLY under 2 conditions:
    1) they have an unalterable end date in, say, 20 years and
    2) they are on products or components/ingredients directly related to the causes of some diseases such as artificial sweeteners/high fructose corn syrup/sugar & diabetes.

    ANY lawsuits against ANY corporations for their liability in GMO production or other agricultural products and other chemicals/materials found to be overtly detrimental to human health (cellphones, asbestos, etc., etc.) that are successful in prosecution, all fines to be used for healthcare.

    Take down VA healthcare and incorporate veteran healthcare into healthcare for the general populace.
    Make government employee health coverage, including elected and appointed officials, the same as that of the general populace.
    Leave private pay practices in place.
    Leave private health insurance in place.
     
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  4. TAEZZAR

    TAEZZAR LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Alton, good stuff, but, government does not belong in the insurance nor education business.

    I think the only tax that has merit, is the sales tax. You can control your taxation with your wallet.
     
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  5. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Just a little food for thought. Take it fwiw and dyodd.

    Soak the Poor, Feed the Rich
    Posted on March 7, 2017 by James Kwak
    By James Kwak

    After the dangerous clown show that has been the Trump White House, it’s comforting to return to some good, old-fashioned conservative policymaking: bashing the poor to cut taxes on the rich. I’m talking, of course, about the Republican plan to repeal and replace Obamacare.

    Health care financing can sometimes seem like a complicated topic. Adverse selection, risk adjustment, blah blah blah. But it’s easy to understand the American Health Care Act or, as it is sure to be known, Trumpcare. In the medium term, financing policies have little effect on the price of health care. At most we can hope to “bend the [long-term] cost curve.” So health care policy essentially comes down to a single question: Who pays?


    Let’s start with the most fundamental element of the Republican plan, the one most near and dear to Paul Ryan’s heart, the principle that has kept the conservative coalition unified since 1994: cutting taxes on the rich. Trumpcare will eliminate virtually all of the taxes that Obamacare introduced to expand health care coverage, including the Medicare surcharges that only apply to high earners: 0.9% on earned income and 3.9% on investment income. That in itself is a 16% cut in taxes on investments for a class of people who make lots of money from investments. Health savings accounts will increase the tax breaks available to high-income families. The “Cadillac tax,” which would have affected people with generous health plans, will be pushed back until 2025 (in a transparent bid to improve the bill’s scoring for reconciliation purposes), with the expectation that it will be repealed at some point in the future.

    With less revenue coming in to pay for health care, the federal government will pay for less health care. Trumpcare reduces government spending in two main ways. First, people who buy insurance in the exchanges will have to pay more, both in premiums and out of pocket. Obamacare’s income-based subsidies will be replaced by age-based tax credits. The net effect will be to increase the price of coverage for lower-income people and decrease it for higher-income people:

    [​IMG]

    (The chart is from the Kaiser Family Foundation and is based on slightly different numbers from the proposed bill, but the basic principles remain the same. The final bill does phase out tax credits beginning at $150,000 in family income.)

    Because Trumpcare eliminates the individual mandate, more healthy people are likely to opt out of coverage. This will increase the average actuarial cost of people buying individual plans, which will push up premiums—a transfer from sick people to healthy people. Trumpcare also repeals the Obamacare limits on cost sharing (deductibles, copayments, etc.) for low-income families. So in addition to paying more to buy health insurance in the first place, poor people will have to pay more when they actually try to use their health insurance.

    The second major way that Trumpcare pays for its tax cuts is by reducing federal spending on Medicaid. The plan reduces the amount the federal government pays for Medicaid expansion (a central component of Obamacare), which at best will simply shift costs to the state level, and at worst (and more likely) will cause more states to opt out of Medicaid expansion altogether. In addition, Trumpcare achieves the long-held conservative dream of converting Medicaid into a block grant program, which means that Republican state governments will be able to use the money in ways that are only tangentially related to providing health care for poor people. (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families block grant money, for example, is routinely used to support abstinence programs or premarital counseling services aimed at getting couples to marry.)

    There are more details, but the basic outlines of the plan are simple: Cut taxes on the rich, cut spending on the poor, and expose more families to rising health care costs. The thing is, we’re talking about health care here. People will need the same amount of health care no matter what Congress does. If the government pays less for health care, poor people will have to pay more. If they can afford it, Trumpcare is effectively the same as a tax on the poor. If they can’t afford it, it’s even worse. This is as naked an example of class warfare as you’ll see today.

    https://baselinescenario.com/2017/03/07/soak-the-poor-feed-the-rich/
     
  6. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I agree. However, we have already crossed the Rubicon. It's too late for a take away, a repeal of Obamacare will include a different healthcare scheme. Yet again freedom and liberty have been sacrificed for a pretence of security. I have to look at this and think that the US economy will collapse and quite possibly the gov too and any move, right or wrong at this point is essentially irrelevant in the long run so, give it to 'em. Maybe it will be the straw that finally breaks the back of leviathan. Meanwhile we have an existing tax structure which will not be repealed, so, why not make use of it by redirecting the funds into something useful while at the same time successfully tying the hands of many libtards who will find "less milk at the teats they suck".

    As to any additional taxes, well, how often does government refuse a tax? So if they will add taxes (cue: surprised look) why not try and make them somewhat useful.
     
  7. Krag

    Krag Planet earth Platinum Bling

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    It is so broken and disastrous, the US should adopt a Canadian or European style system to make it affordable and suck the greed out of the sick care. I have a friend who is costing the system $400 a day who belongs in a facility for drunks not with geriatrics; and a sister who is using her Medicare to get lots and lots of free "care". Frankly people need to be ordered around if they are not of sound mind and limited in how much care they get. Natural cures work, but I don't know any way to mandate them. Too many enablers paying the way for the irresponsible.
     
  8. Fanakapan

    Fanakapan Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada

    Interesting, and pay attention to the table at the bottom of the article. Going by the percentage of healthcare paid for by the US Gov, and the percentage of national GDP spent on health in the USA, I 'd have to think there's an amount of double dipping going on by the HealthCo's. Somebody in the US needs to present facts and figures to the public so as they can make their views known to their elected representatives, its the only way that the voices of the HealthCo's can be drowned out ? But thats assuming that enough of the public are engaged enough to devote some effort to digesting the fiscal facts, which on balance is maybe a forlorn hope :)
     
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  9. ErrosionOfAccord

    ErrosionOfAccord #1 Global Warmer Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    Get the Rockefeller Foundation out of the medical schools and put huge bounties on the most prolific diseases in order to shift focus from treatment to cure.
     
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  10. TAEZZAR

    TAEZZAR LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH Midas Member Site Supporter

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    That is EXACTLY the problem, make it so F####G complicated, that the ordinary person ether can't understand it or loses interest, due to the complication, as in banking !!!
     
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  11. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Obamacare was 'meant to explode' in 2017 Trump says 'because Obama won't be here' - 'As bad as it is now, it will get even worse'
    • Trump urged lawmakers Friday to support the GOP health reform plan if they want to 'save Americans from imploding Obamacare disaster'
    • Said 2017 would be a disaster for the health law - 'That's the year it was meant to explode, because Obama won't be here. That was when it was supposed to be'
    • Trump was meeting with the chairs of several House committees, including the GOP bill's authors, the chairs of Energy and Commerce and Ways and Means
    • Obama said patients could keep their doctor and their plan 'and it turned out not to be true,' Trump charged - 'This is the time we're gonna get it done'
    • House minority leader Nancy Pelosi said Friday she doesn't expect the GOP bill to get any Democratic votes


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4302038/Obamacare-meant-explode-year-Trump-says.html#ixzz4axMRxKIO
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
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  12. latemetal

    latemetal Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Replace if you can, or just leave it alone if you don't wish to be a mass murderer...
     
  13. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    House Speaker Paul Ryan says he 'can't answer' how many people will lose healthcare coverage under GOP plan - because it's not a government mandate
    • House Speaker Paul Ryan said he couldn't answer the question of how many people would lose coverage under the GOP's new health plan
    • Ryan explained that his plan allows for more 'freedom' - and thus people won't be forced to buy healthcare or face a tax penalty
    • The GOP leader said he expected the Congressional Budget Office to release numbers that suggest 'not as many people will get coverage'
    • 'You know why?' Ryan said today on Face the Nation. 'Because this isn't a government mandate'


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4306626/Ryan-t-answer-people-lose-healthcare.html#ixzz4b8pbiZcL
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  14. TAEZZAR

    TAEZZAR LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH Midas Member Site Supporter

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    I trust Ryan as far as I can throw him.
    OK, if you gave him an enema, I can throw 5 pounds pretty far !!!
     
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  15. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Might want to check your math there TAEZZAR or use a better enema, he's certainly more full of it than that... :)
     
  16. latemetal

    latemetal Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I may be wrong, but I think he meant that after the enema there'd only be about 5lbs of "man" left. Hence, he'd be easy to throw.
     
  18. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  19. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  20. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    On the local front.

    Fitzpatrick will not support ACA replacement bill

    Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick said in a statement Sunday that he will not support the GOP's American Health Care Act, the bill designed to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act.

    Fitzpatrick, a Republican who represents the 8th District, says the main reason he cannot vote for the bill is that it does not adequately address opioid abuse.

    "After considering the current healthcare bill in a thorough and deliberate manner, I have concluded that, although the American Health Care Act focuses on several much-needed reforms to our healthcare system, in its current form I cannot support this legislation," Fitzpatrick said.

    "I have many concerns with this bill, and first among them is the impact on the single most important issue plaguing Bucks and Montgomery Counties, and the issue that I have made my priority in Congress: opioid abuse prevention, treatment and recovery."

    Fitzpatrick's decision comes nearly two weeks after House Speaker Paul Ryan introduced the AHCA. Members of the Democratic Party, including U.S. Sen. Bob Casey and Congressman Brendan Boyle, D-13, of Philadelphia, swiftly denounced it, saying the proposed cuts to Medicaid would harm vulnerable Americans.

    A representative from Fitzpatrick's office said when the bill was introduced that the congressman was carefully reading the legislation and was keeping an eye on its progress through the congressional committees. As of Sunday, the AHCA has been approved by the House Energy and Commerce, Ways & Means and Budget committees and is under consideration in the House Rules Committee.

    In his statement Sunday, Fitzpatrick emphasized that the current health care law needs serious reforms, saying the ACA "is broken in many areas and desperately needs to be fixed or replaced with a system that works better for everyone."

    "We urgently need a patient-centered, integrated healthcare model that provides individuals the freedom of choice, physicians the freedom to practice, and those with chronic disease, addiction or illness the freedom to live their lives knowing they have access to quality, affordable healthcare," Fitzpatrick said.

    The 8th Congressional District includes Bucks County and parts of Eastern Montgomery County.

    Enjoying our content? Become a Bucks County Courier Times subscriber to support stories like these. Get full access to our signature journalism for just 33 cents a day.

    James Boyle: 215-345-3066; email: jjboyle@calkins.com; Twitter: @jamesboylejr

    http://www.buckscountycouriertimes....d-3830-50df-ba4c-38939f463718.html?thisjustin
     
  21. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Race to close the deal on GOP healthcare law: Paul Ryan fails to win around moderates in late-night meeting as Trump phones Freedom Caucus members
    • The White House is struggling to lock down the Representatives it needs for the Obamacare repeal vote on Thursday
    • Donald Trump, Paul Ryan and others have been engaging both moderates and the 'Freedom Caucus' who say the bill doesn't go far enough
    • But Ryan's meeting ended with most avoiding reporters, and the Freedom Caucus say that they feel optimistic about tomorrow's vote
    • Republican support is teetering. The GOP can afford just 21 defections within the ranks of its 237 lawmakers
    • But whip counts have as many as 31 GOP lawmakers voting no
    • White House press secretary warned the rank and file: 'There is not Plan B. There is Plan A and Plan A,' later saying, 'This is the only train leaving the station'
    • Jim Jordan, the founder of the ultra-conservative House caucus that could sink the bill, said this morning that it doesn't have the 216 votes it needs
    • Senator Rand Paul predicted Wednesday that House Speaker Paul Ryan will have to pull the legislation before tomorrow's vote because it cannot pass
    • Paul also said GOP needs to get some 'guts' and buck the 'arcane' budget rules to forces through additional, non-budgetary changes conservatives want


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4341158/Trump-struggling-make-deal-Obamacare-repeal.html#ixzz4c93YZ3EU
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  22. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Trump's ultimatum: Donald calls House Republicans' bluff and tells them to hold healthcare vote today or KEEP OBAMACARE
    • Republicans had to postpone a vote in the House of Representatives to repeal and replace Obamacare –but scheduled one for Friday
    • Decision was made Thursday afternoon as conservative Freedom Caucus members said they could not back package
    • It was a slap in the face of President Trump whose spokesman Sean Spicer had boasted he was changing skeptical minds just before the postponement
    • At precisely the time the vote was postponed Trump was meeting truckers and boasting that there would be a vote
    • Republicans can afford to lose only 21 Republican votes, with about 30 opposed as of Thursday morning
    • White House's Reince Priebus, Steve Bannon and Kellyanne Conway went to Capitol Hill to twist more Republican arms
    • Obama's 'essential benefits' to get nixed in latest version
    • They carried an ultimatum from the president: Vote on the package tomorrow or you can keep Obamacare
    • Spicer said in a Fox News interview that Trump will get his up-or-down vote: 'This is the only train leaving the station'
    • 'Burn the ships,' said one GOP member


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4342768/GOP-doesn-t-guaranteed-votes-pass-Obamacare-repeal.html#ixzz4cEjHwN4e
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
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  23. bemac

    bemac Midas Member Midas Member

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    Here is your real Trump in action. He wants to make a deal, and that's all he wants, that's all he cares about, never mind the deal sucks ass.
     
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  24. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    I think there is a lot more going on than we are going to be allowed to see. Trump needs to hamstring ryan and get him removed as speaker without it looking like he's doing it. Allowing ryan to go down in embarrassing complete and total failure is a good way to get that ball rolling. This is also showing the American people in great detail just how crooked and dishonest the establishment never Trump wing of the republican party is.

    The establishment republicans kissed donor and hussein ass for 8 years all the while telling their voters they were doing the best they could. When the time came to put up or shut up it is revealed that they never, not once had a plan to fix or repeal anything. Disgraceful.

    Trump knows, as does anybody paying attention that he is going to get very little done with flat out traitors like ryan, mccain and mcconnell in positions of leadership within the disgrace called the republican party.

    I may be wrong but what I think we are seeing is the very strategic setting up of traitorous republicans for elimination or in the least hamstringing while the president still maintains political neutrality. Complicated business indeed.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
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  25. latemetal

    latemetal Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Trump wants to keep Obamacare...bet this fails.
     
  26. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    In case anybody wants to know what is actually going on. I know most won't read it because spewing media supplied bumper sticker slogans is easier and much more fun.

    Healthcare Vote? – Remember, It Wasn’t Republicans That Elected President Trump…
    Posted on March 23, 2017 by sundance

    Intransigent crony-CONstitutional CONservatives, ie “Freedom Caucus” UniParty members, would do well to remember it wasn’t just Republicans who voted to put President Trump into office, it was also Democrats and Independents.

    [​IMG]

    Those Trump voters who put President Trump into office can just as easily wipe out the crony-CONstitutional CONservatives who previously hid behind their #NeverTrump-ism.

    Any vote against the ObamaCare repeal and replacement road map put forth by President Trump, Vice-President Pence, HHS Secretary Tom Price and Speaker Paul Ryan, is a direct vote against the policy agenda of President Donald Trump and his supporters.

    We voted for Donald Trump because he wasn’t a political ideologue. You had the chance to run your political ideologue, Ted Cruz, as a candidate. You did, and he lost.

    Now President Trump, Vice-President Pence, HHS Secretary Tom Price, Speaker of the House Paul Ryan have constructed a bill. Everyone has been allowed at the table, everyone’s input has been considered. Talk is done. Support this bill, or you are voting AGAINST President Trump. PERIOD.

    No other approach to repealing ObamaCare is possible. It’s not ideological, it is simply reality. The back-story on our prior explanations are HERE and expanded HERE.

    Most of you already know this outline because you’ve understood the bigger picture. Hopefully this message will reach the 99% who don’t understand that “reconciliation” doesn’t allow for substantive structural add-ons to ObamaCare, until step #3. Again, HERE and HERE.

    [​IMG]

    FACT: ObamaCare was passed, using the original legislative vehicle, at 1:38am on 12/24/09 with 60 votes in the Senate (see below). The House then approved that Senate Bill without changes; and in February 2010 created a secondary bill which created the opportunity for the Senate to modify ObamaCare using “reconciliation” for a lower vote threshold of 51 votes.

    [​IMG]

    Literally under the cloak of darkness Democrats rammed their holy grail of a socialist construct down the throat of every American. We no longer needed to imagine having usurping representation that did not represent the will of the people – we saw it.

    [Understand the full construct by reading HERE] If you do not understand how legislation is created; if you do not understand the difference between the Senate and House; if you do not understand the way ObamaCare was created, you really need to read this first.

    [​IMG]

    A clean repeal bill, meaning a law to repeal the entire ObamaCare construct only, would, if following the original construct, require another 60 vote hurdle in the Senate.

    Republicans, while in the majority, only control 52 seats. Without 8 Democrats voting to approve a “repeal bill”, any House (Or Senate) bill that repeals ObamaCare cannot pass the Senate.

    Secondly, not all Republicans support “repeal only”.

    This is why Mark Levin is a con-man; selling snake oil as outrage to keep a listening audience angry, yet clueless and hopeless. That’s what I don’t like.

    A complete repeal of ObamaCare is currently impossible. The House Freedom Caucus can push all the repeal bills they want, but they cannot get a clean repeal bill through the House let alone the Senate. They cannot get the votes needed. Period.

    Additionally, despite claims to the contrary, the GOP has never passed an Obamacare “repeal bill”. Ever.

    What the House did previously pass was a “defund bill” using the lower vote reconciliation process. President Obama vetoed it. A defunding bill was possible because of the financial pathway which falls under reconciliation rules. The current Ryan bill is almost identical to the 2016 defunding bill everyone is mistakenly calling a prior “repeal bill”.

    A complete independent repeal bill of ObamaCare is currently impossible.

    The only bill that can pass the Senate is a bill that can utilize the process of reconciliation, which has a vote threshold of 51 votes. A reconciliation bill is a budgetary bill designed around the financial drivers of ObamaCare. This is what HHS Secretary Tom Price, Speaker Ryan and President Trump are attempting to do.

    A reconciliation bill cannot add substantively to the existing law. It can only modify the financial structures and retain the same 10-year budgetary impact. If you want substantive adds or removals of the law, beyond the financial structure, it is no longer a reconciliation bill.

    If it is no longer a reconciliation bill, it requires 60 votes. 52 Republicans + 8 democrats. Democrats have already stated they will not support any substantive changes that undermine the key ObamaCare provisions.

    Accepting the Democrats will not vote to repeal their signature law… The only way to fully repeal ObamaCare as an independent bill, and overcome the 60 vote threshold, would be to eliminate the filibuster rule (3/5ths vote threshold or 60 votes) in the Senate and drop the vote threshold to 51 votes, a simple majority, for all legislation.

    Without the filibuster rule, and with the Senate having only a simple majority rule for passage, there would no longer exist an internal legislative check for any minority party to protect themselves from the laws created by a greater mob.

    The ruling party would be in power as if they held a Senate super majority at all times. As a consequence, with minority protection eliminated, legislation is then ruled by the legislative federal dictates from those representing the Majority only. There is no legislative pressure to listen, build consensus or consider the position of the minority party.

    You would think that constitutional conservatives would be necessarily predisposed against the dropping of a constitutional republic in favor of a pure democracy (mob rule).

    However, within this current argument over the Price/Ryan approach to replacing ObamaCare you find exactly that. Emotional conservatives, and crony-constitutional conservatives like Mark Levin, arguing against the current House bill leaving only the option to drop the Senate filibuster on legislation and pass laws with a simple majority.

    So you tell me, is this really a constitutional-conservative approach?


    Really and honestly?

    Two more points on this issue:

    Point One – OK, lets say your Senator would agree to change the Senate Rules and eliminate the filibuster, allowing legislation to pass with 51 votes (there are about 28 +/- of them who would). To change the rules you need a majority of Senators to agree to do it. THERE ARE NOT 51 Senators willing to change the Senate rules to pass legislation.

    Point Two – There are not even 51 Senators who would agree to repeal ObamaCare. Forget the 60 vote threshold, for a moment. Even if you didn’t have the filibuster rule, there are not currently 51 Republican Senators willing to repeal ObamaCare without an existing replacement available.

    Of course there are problems with the current Ryan bill. It can only approach ObamaCare from the reconciliation aspect. It cannot go into the substantive changes, adds or modifications because that would require the 60 vote Senate. Again, See Here.

    Additionally, despite claims to the contrary, the GOP has never passed an Obamacare “repeal bill”. Ever. What they did previously pass was a “defund bill” using the lower vote reconciliation process. President Obama vetoed it. A defunding bill was possible because of the financial pathway which falls under reconciliation rules.

    Yes, the GOP could defund it 100% again, but then what?… It still exists as a program, and Trump would have to fund the existing (non repealed law) from somewhere. So you’re back to the 60 votes for a replacement again or eliminate the filibuster and go with the 51-vote threshold for all future legislation.

    Back to current ObamaCare’s replacement – there are three options if we are going to retain a constitutional republic, and pass laws with the 60 vote senate filibuster threshold:

    Option #1 – We can do nothing – Vote NO and allow ObamaCare to collapse on it’s own. In the interim many Americans will be negatively impacted and the more vulnerable and needy will be worst hurt. Premiums and co-pays continue to skyrocket while the insurance system tries to preserve itself.

    Option #2 – Vote NO and attempt futile structural repeal bills in the House; and if passed, watch them pile up in the Senate without the ability to pass and earn 60 votes or even 51 votes. Shout and holler some more, gnash some teeth, and wait for 2018 when Republicans will attempt to win the other 8 seats needed. Again, even less of a guarantee on the outcome.

    Option #3 – We can Repeal and Replace using the three-phase approach being proposed by Tom Price, Paul Ryan and Donald Trump:

    • 1. Pass reconciliation legislation targeting the financial mechanisms.
    • 2. HHS rewrites rules.
    • 3. New laws are proposed by a full congress to adjust ObamaCare and add to it, and laws debated/passed.
    Yes, this too has it’s risks. No guarantee you’ll get the cookie you want in phase three because any structural amendment, any add-on, will take consensus building to gather the votes to pass the specific points.

    Those are the options.

    Choose/Vote wisely.

    [​IMG]
     
  27. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    If they cannot agree on a replacement, they should simply repeal Obamacare instead. Let the market work out the replacement. As for the narrative that millions will lose healthcare, I lost mine when Obamacare was enacted. Nobody talks about us, the working class who were priced out of the market with coverage that is an illusion.
     
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  28. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    the freedom caucus is supposedly holding ground based on it must be repealed, end of story.

    the whole idea of repeal/replace isn't a repeal at all. Health costs in the US have exploded to almost 20% of GDP.

    in other words, reworking the existing system is not enough IMO, which is all tramp care does.

    kenyan care has to be tossed completely. Then go to work on a new plan. My preference is no plan, totally privatized, but that will never happen when both parties are of the same animal.

    If you want socialized medicine, then by all means, go to the wall with it. Everybody participates, everybody uses the same system, etc. No insurance, no companies larger than x, no special exemptions like for congress or unions, etc.

    It has already been proven that 1/2 way doesn't and can't work.
     
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  29. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    btw, I like the stand tramp took on it now

    call the vote, move on

    as Irons stated above, republicans are nothing but more of the same, and they are proving it in spades

    to me the only group holding true is the tea party/freedom caucus group.
     
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  30. D-FENZ

    D-FENZ Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    Once 0'care was passed and 'healthcare' was classified as a 'right', the damage was done. You cannot un-ring a dinner bell.

    The best outcome would be for the vote to fail and let the existing turd implode of its own weight.
     
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  31. gliddenralston

    gliddenralston Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Well to day we find out who wins, Lollipops (suckers) or Snowflakes (whiners). No wait everybody loses, trying to replace a bad health plan with a worse health plan!. Ya all have to admit we got some real thinkers leading this country.
     
  32. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    I still say let it implode and let the prices keep going thru the roof, dems own it period. anyway dont think the rinos wanted it repealed anyway and now that costs have doubled, tripled they will never go back down and we have thousands and thousands of government employees involved now adding tens of millions to the cost of the admin. There is no hope for the aca.
     
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  33. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    I recently got screamed at by a neo con family member when I told him exactly that. It's OK though I'm used to it.
    Neo cons have a very tenuous grip on reality on their best days.

    There is no unfucked, pandora's box is open. Once the DC maggots infested the carcass of health insurance in America the game was over. It will never be the same as it was and there is no fixing what has been done. The best that we can hope for is to keep ourselves healthy and then die quickly.

    .
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
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  34. bemac

    bemac Midas Member Midas Member

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    ^ Biggest load of horse shit I've seen regarding this entire matter.

    If you think congressmen like Justin Amash and Thomas Massie are "crony-capitalists" you are fucking kidding yourself. They are among the ONLY REAL capitalists in Washington, DC.

    The health care bill that Paul Ryan and Donald Trump are trying to pass is NOT a repeal of Obamacare, it isn't even Obamacare Lite, it's Obamacare with a slight twist if anything.
     
  35. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    If you think Justin Amash is on your side you have bumped your head too many times brother. Amash rep's the district to the south of me here in Michigan and the fecker recently showed his true colors by doing a 180 on his "core belief's" when his owners, the koch brothers and others, cracked the whip. It surprised and embarrassed a lot of people who supported him. I know, I have talked to several.
    People here who voted for him a few times now would not piss on him if they noticed he was on fire.

    Just thought you ought to know.

    .
     
  36. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  37. bemac

    bemac Midas Member Midas Member

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    What exactly did he change his stance on? The guy is basically a Ron Paul replacement.
     
  38. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Amazing how republicans can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Ugly as hell, same as it ever was..............

    Report: President Trump Forces House Vote Tomorrow on ObamaCare Repeal and Replacement…
    Posted on March 23, 2017 by sundance
    Perfect.
    President Trump, through OMB Director Mick Mulvaney, has demanded the House of Representatives vote tomorrow on the current bill for ObamaCare Repeal and Replacement.

    This directly calls out the UniParty structure of Washington DC.

    The time for endless political talk in circles is over. Time for action. The Koch Brothers wing (House Freedom Caucus), and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce wing (Ryan/GOPe), will have to vote to support the Health and Human Services construct of Tom Price, or kill it by voting against it.


    Either way they vote President Trump has delivered on his promise: an opportunity to vote for the repeal of ObamaCare.
    All those who vote “NO” on the bill will own the outcome. Meaning, they support the continuance of ObamaCare and all of the subsequent outcomes therein. Get them all on record.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.co...tomorrow-on-obamacare-repeal-and-replacement/
     
  39. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    A lot of people here used to think the same thing. A year or so ago I would have agreed with you.
     
  40. bemac

    bemac Midas Member Midas Member

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    What exactly did he change his stance on?
     

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