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Modern Commemorative Coins / Eric Jordan

Discussion in 'PM's - Coins - Numis - Base Metals' started by 321AU, Aug 27, 2010.



  1. 321AU

    321AU Seeker Seeker

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    I purchased this book recently after hernancortes referenced it concerning many coins he and I collect. The book is focused almost soley on collecting modern US Mint coins and is extremely comprehensive in that regard. It also offers many historical perspectives and parallels to modern collecting.

    I have only been collecting coins for 2-3 years so my knowledge is very limited and this book will help expand it greatly.

    The first paragraph of chapter 11 sums up the authors focus in writing this book imo.

    I have not read the whole book yet but I'm enjoying it greatly.

    While reading Jordans book I've spotted many mistakes I've made in my collecting but overall I feel very good about my early picks considering my very limited knowledge at the time. Much of what he writes reaffirms what I believe about the huge potential of some of these coins.

    I did have the foresight and luck early on to pick up a few gold and platinum key coins that he emphasizes and bought multiples of most so I'm very happy about that.

    He, like myself, doesn't really like the special lables, First Strike, Early Release etc. I've just recently been putting more emphasis on some FS coins only because of the prices I've seen them generate with low pops. I don't believe there is a legitimate reason for the excessive FS prices fundamentally although I do see that PCGS grades smaller percentages of 1st strike eligible coins as 70s. Still it doesn't justify the huge price differences imo.

    Hernancortes I think you mentioned you don't share Jordans enthusiasm on proof platinum? I do and believe a few short years down the road collectors, myself included, will be kicking themselves for not loading up on these ultra low mintage MS/PF 06-08 platinum jewels at present prices. I do have many more uncirculated w platinum coins than proofs and maybe that is what you were referring to? My problem is that I don't have enough funds and have been too easily distracted with gold.

    I was surprised Jordan put so much emphasis on the 99W Uncirculated (error) as being the keys in the $5 and $10 AGE Unc Ws. He didn't talk much about 08 $5 W or $10 W, almost like it was already a done deal that the 99s would be the keys. I don't know enough about collectors and collecting to contradict him but it doesn't really make sense to me logically that accidental issues from 6 years prior could be the official keys to the series. I guess only time will tell. I believe they will increase in value none the less.

    There is so much covered in this book that I can't get close to covering it's many topics without writing a book lol. My thanks to hernancortes for recommending it. It covers everything in my modern collection so far and much much more. It offers many insights and ideas that had not occured to me that will benifit my collecting greatly in the future. A must have wealth of knowledge for any modern coin collector.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
  2. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Sadly MOST collectors don't PAY for the KEYS in any series...

    Simple fact is that they have been priced out of the market....


    Like going to the grocery store next year and PORTERHOUSE STEAK is $50 a pound...


    If they drop it to $10 you might buy; but probably you'll grab a pound of ground round....

    Thanks for the INFO I'll take a l@@K at the book on amazon.com....
     
  3. 321AU

    321AU Seeker Seeker

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    According to Jordans four types of collectors I would most closely fit the definition of a Free-Form collector.
    The other three are;

    Series date and mintmark collecting

    Type collecting

    Die variety collecting

    In the few short years I've been doing this I've been mostly looking for the keys that I think will be huge down the road and that I could afford. Many of the coins I've tried to focus on are the stuff that Jordan really likes in his book, 06-08 MS/PF PT eagles, 06-08 Uncirculated AGEs and Buffalos. Of course there are many more. I was very lucky to get into collecting when I did because of all the exceptional low mintage, short series, ending series coins available. Lately I've been chasing some higher priced stuff that maybe I shouldn't but I have confidense in it in the long run.

    Jordans insights and charts on relative rarity price curves was something I hadn't seen before but reaffirmed what I had been trying to do without knowing how applicable it really was. He also gives very good charts and historical examples of this such as the Proof Walker Halves-7 Member Set, $2.5 Indian Gold 1908-1929, Proof Silver Dollars.

    Sometimes I'm buying different stuff not because I think it's the best investment I could make but just to have some variety and I like it.

    HS I also want to thank you for all your great book recommendations. I know that you will enjoy and appreciate this book. It is also a handy reference for modern mintages.
     
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  4. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Jordan likes proof platinum so much because he thinks its the ultimate expression -- the king-- of stable obverse/changing reverse coins, which is the way the mint started going 10 years ago with the popular state quarters, now the parks quarters, the sac dollars, new nickels, etc. He thinks that new collectors who've grown up on state quarters as they get more disposable income will wanna pile into the tiny-mintage plats. Thats a good argument in favor of them, but platinum is still the great unknown in US coinage, plus melting of more common-date issues can skew the surving pop. picture and thus your keys are not safe. I was dead wrong last fall when I predicted the mint would hardly sell any '09 plats because of the stupid design and the sky-high price. LOL sold out in a week. Same thing this year, which indicates there are more plat. people than I expected. I do think the mint going forward will resist getting back in the plat bullion business, they got burned badly in '08. Which leaves only the 1 oz proof for plat collectors every year, which may keep getting scarfed up with quick sellouts. That would put upward pressure on back dated plats, especially the tiny mintage 06 07 and 08's. There I go, I just talked myself back into them.
    I am not chasing them now as I feel better about having gotten several of the rarest ones last year and the year before. The trick to this whole thing is finding value and getting in cheap.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
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  5. 321AU

    321AU Seeker Seeker

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    I didn't pay that much attention to the "reverse collector series structure" as he calls it and how that would attract younger collectors down the road but it does make some sense. I do like the reverse designs on many of them but that was not my main draw. For me it was the ultra low mintage and the end of the series (fracs and unc) and fractionals will most likely never be produced again. At the time I was buying I hadn't ever considered or heard of the melting of common dates producing new keys (ignorance is bliss). Some reasons I've added now since reading this book are
    and
    and
    These and some other thoughts make very convincing arguments for buying even at the present prices imo. I see little downside risk and huge untapped potential in these. Most likely worst case is slow growth imo which I wouldn't complain about.

    I know you already have a boatload hernancortes and are sitting pretty but some other thoughts that continue to keep my attention focused on the 08 Buffalos, 06-08 Uncirculated AGEs and 06-08 Uncirculated Platinum Eagles and some of the reasons I am still a buyer (chaser maybe) of some of these...

    Consider the Uncirculated AGEs. The total population that will ever be made is under 230,809 for the three year series. In a series that is collected by how many? Then when I start looking at the key population numbers it just keeps getting better. Then break down the PCGS and NGC MS70 key populations it starts looking fantastic.

    Then we get to the one year Buffalo fractionals. Lets take the total mintage of every fractional Buffalo uncirculated and proof combined that will likely ever be produced is under 98,000 total! This makes me think that many people will be looking just to have even one fractional of any kind and willing to pay for it. Then I start breaking down the PCGS and NGC 70 pops and keys and it keeps getting better. If we look to the 1 year 2001 Silver Dollar Buffalo and present day prices even with a total mintage of about 500,0000 things could get crazy in the next 10 years with Gold Buffalos.

    Finally the Uncirculated Platinum Eagles. Consider all of Jordans reasoning then add to it that the same idea that there are less than 45,000 burnished coins total in this finished three year series. then do the same and break it down by NGC and PCGS populations and keys. The numbers are extremely low.

    I know that you are already well aware of all these facts hernancortes but I'm hoping maybe this will help others make up their minds about these series. This is my somewhat isolated reasoning based soley on the numbers and what I've read so it probably has some holes I haven't considered and I hope if it does someone here with more understanding than I will point them out. Plus I'm totally biased having so much invested in them lol.

    The only thing that I'm really interested in that will be coming from the Mint in the near future is the 5oz Silver America The Beautiful Series.

    I don't like many of the Spouses but some here are doing very well flipping them. I just think eventually someone will be left holding the bag with many of these but I've been totally off so far about there price potential. Some of the subsets and individual coins will probably do very well long term though.

    I too was not excited at all about the 09 Platinum coin and was surprised how quickly it sold out at the high price. I think this says more about the lack of any nice variety 09 AU AG and PT coins being put out by the Mint beyond the Buffalo proof and of course the Ultra High Relief. Same for 2010 unless they do the ASE proof and get the 5oz America The Beautiful series out.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2010
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  6. Disambiguater

    Disambiguater New Member

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    Future rarity of modern commems...

    Many modern Commems are really pretty,
    some have very low mintages.

    The only difference between the modern low mintage commems and the old 1892-1954 commems is survivability.

    Many of the older commems were sold on sight to the public as a profit item by the event sponsors
    ...a prime example is the 1892-3 Columbian half and the 1893 Isabella Quarter.

    Both were sold at the Worlds Columbian Expo to the public for a dollar apiece...hardly anybody bought the quarter, as you got a half for the same dollar.

    Almost half the quarters were melted,with over production, many of the leftover halves went into circulation.

    The point is, you have attrition on many of the older comems, they went into pockets as a lucky piece or souvenir...they became circulated, making true Gems 50 years later, rare. Even collectors putting them in folders risked scratches and slide marks.

    On the other hand, the modern commems are whisked into slabs for the quick buck, see no attrition, and the same NCLT (non-circulating legal tender) will still be in slabs 50 years from now..

    Without the co-ordinated hype of hucksters, they will always be ms 69-70 readily available, slabbed time capsules.

    Back in the 80's I started a set of 1892-1954 commems in the LOWEST undamaged grade I could find...think I had about 25 different almost good- very good, before I lost interest.

    Tread lightly on modern commems a an investment.
     
  7. 321AU

    321AU Seeker Seeker

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...


    Jordan argues against this idea pretty convincingly. The example he uses is the modern silver eagle proof series in which the 1995 W with a mintage of over 30,000 is not rare and virtually all 1995 Ws have been well preserved as collector coins from day one.

    The point he makes is that with over 15 million common dates out there it has created a huge collector base which then puts huge pressure on the key, the 95 W, even with 30,000 out there in almost perfect condition. So on the relative rarity scale for this series 30,000 becomes a small enough bottleneck for the 15 million common date base to create enough pressure to drive key prices up to $3000 for a MS69 95W.

    So his conclusion is that large quantities of high grade (slabbed) common dates are a blessing for a series that is collected by date and mintmark and only serve to create a larger collector base to then drive prices up on a significant key or keys.

    "The real question to be considered is how many of those keys are available
    and how much collector base compression will be generated" for any given series.

    So what you say may be true for some commemorative coin series but each series must be evaluated individually using the relative rarity criteria.
     
  8. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    You got it 321, the bottom line line is it's most important to study the behavior the series you are collecting in. The confusion here rests in the title of Jordan's book, it covers basically all moderns worth investing in, not just commemoratives, in fact he devotes more time to Au Ag and Pt American Eagles than anything else. According to him he had to name it that in the interest of space. That being the case I would've just named it something like Modern US Coins, but no matter.
    Modern commems are collected by design and their values are affected by perceived beauty and rarity. Eagles and buffs are collected by date and mintmark, so they need not be rare in absoulte terms to realize sky-high prices. The '95W once traded at $5000, which tends to represent the 'no mas' point for collectors.
    One thing anout the 'unc. w' series of eagles and buffs is that I think they represent some good 'collector base convergence' from those that collect the w mintmark as well as those that collect mint state series. The mint gave these the moniker of 'burnished' but I don't see how they are different than mint state --- the silver eagles switched to a 'burnished' finish like 8 or 9 years ago for example. The burnished thing was a marketing ploy. At least on the Eagles (i dunno about buffs) the bullion version looks the exact same save for the w mintmark. Plat. unc's are a different matter of course since they feature the changing reverse which makes them type coins.
    Anyway I think that's why Jordan chose to include the 'burnished w's' in the mintage tables of mint state coins, which really shows how deep they are as keys. In time the market will forget these were ever referred to as "burnished".
     
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  9. 321AU

    321AU Seeker Seeker

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    I went to a PCGS members only show yesterday in Las Vegas. I brought a bunch of NGC 70 coins to submit for crossover. I found out they would not let me designate only crossover if they would make PCGS 70. They said I could only designate 69 or better. I declined and just submitted some raw coins, a 09 and 10 buffalo PF, UHR and a 08 $25 Buffalo. I wasn't very impressed with their setup.
     
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  10. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    Just bought the BOOK on Amazon which allows a L@@K INSIDE IT!

    Great B@@K with real interesting INSIGHT.


    By the way years ago I learned to BUY the SET because people are so FICKLE that THINGS change especially in GOLD coins.

    I do however try to avoid the RARE EXPENSIVE ones as the public will grab the COMMON ones later on in PANIC mode.

    The UHR is probably the ONE BEST coin to have in your collection because IT WAS a ONE BANGER. They don't have 20 to 50 years of them.... boring boring boring


    Like collecting BULLION slabs with NO MINT MARK!


    And the MINT for some SUPPLY reason can't provide the extra work ONES with the MINT MARKS. If they had 281 million ounces of gold they'd be making
    everything they could right NOW as they value that SEIZED OLD GOLD it at $35.00 an ounce and they could make an extra $1,600 PER right now. So my guess is that they have ZIP.

    The new game plan is to GRAB STEAL CONFISCATE ROB SEIZE EVERY private retirement plan in AMERICA (about 8 TRILLION DOLLAR easy grab because all are documented) read all about IT:

    http://www.libertycoinservice.com/images/stories/lcsnewsletter/current/currentnews.pdf


    Now that's drive even the VILLAGE IDIOT with an 85 I.Q. to invest in hard assets....

    better hurry I hear the HERD thundering by...:sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::sheep::black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef:black_bull_mini_lef


    mommy drowned all the dumb ones so I'm cashing OUT!
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2010
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  11. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    Got the BOOK and think it is the absolutely BEST book on what to BUY across the WHOLE coin sector: from the VERY first ones - made in America.

    Gives tremendous financial and LOGICAL background into BUYING right too.

    sadly, ole HS knows....
     
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  12. newmisty

    newmisty Duppy Conqueror Midas Member

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    Thanks for the review. I just ordered one of my own. Got it (previousy read) for under $17 shipped.
     
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  13. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    He mentions LOTS of things I did NOT see until they HAPPENED.

    Like the price of BULLION coins hitting $1000 then $2000 then $3000 per ounce and the melt value
    of the SLABBED collectables "stuttering."


    Like I've been mentioning lately - BUY SMALLER coins....

    Even the 1/4 ounce may hit $2,500 upwards...

    The slabs LIKE in my SOVEREIGNS MS63s MS64s would just be good for AUTHENTICATION then....

    FRANKLY I really find this BOOK fascinating and exhaustive in its look at all the angles IN COLLECTING.


    YOU WILL find the LISTS absolutely imperative to the COIN TERRITORY.


    Like old JAKE in LONESOME DOVE - "I'm JUST TRYING to get through the (coin) TERRITORY, Captain Gus!"

    "DON'T HANG me for trying..." GULP!:36_2_36::36_2_36::36_2_36::36_2_36::36_1_34::36_1_34::36_1_34::36_1_34::captain::captain::captain::captain:
     
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  14. 321AU

    321AU Seeker Seeker

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    The thanks really goes to hernancortes. I would have never known about It without him referring to it often enough that I had to buy it.
     
  15. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    Yep, after reading it HC is right on the REAL WEALTH - gold - and this book explains where he's coming from

    All Hail HC...

    Gold = Wealth: from old 1916 dictionary...:emotions15::emotions15::emotions15::emotions15::emotions15::emotions15: He's pretty good HE is...
     
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  16. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    The book is worh the price alone for having the mintage tables all in one place. They are accurate for moderns, unlike redbook, which has become a joke with its disregard for moderns. Maybe they can redeem themselves for 2011 but I doubt it.
     
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  17. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    http://www.firstspousecoins.us/price-guide/

    Between this and the 2011 RED BOOK and Jordan's fantastic book I spent a few HOURS today studing the market, the coins, and the future.

    Chapter FOUR was on point for these SPOUSES.

    Chapter FIVE is really good too.

    Chapter SEVEN is perhaps WORTH the price of a GOLD coin!

    Study that for it is imperative because the money supply today hints at a price where one of these SPOUSE coins is probably worth around $3,000.00 - sadly for America.

    Study page 77 and figure twice that value....:dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::dontknow::heeeelllllooooo::heeeelllllooooo::heeeelllllooooo::heeeelllllooooo::heeeelllllooooo::heeeelllllooooo:



    Study page 79 that is a real winner or loser if you fail to follow the rules...sorry...
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  18. 321AU

    321AU Seeker Seeker

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    Well I was emailed the grades on the coins I submitted :biggrin: 3 out of 4 MS/PF70s :23_30_104:

    The only one that wasn't a 70 was the $25 Buffalo. I'm so happy that my UHR is a 70.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2010
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  19. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    Brief coin show report from annual IN state show (100 tables) concerning "Jordan" moderns:

    Eight spouses, all 2007s. Continued disrespect @ no higher than 2% over spot, slabbed or not, proof or unc. My buddy bought several as it seemed the best deal in Au bullion --- period.
    One 2006-w unc gold eagle $5, $155
    One 2006-w unc gold eagle $10, $675
    One 2007-w unc gold eagle $5, $155
    No 2008-w unc material in gold or plat. eagles, 3 or 4 fractional gold buffs, which dealers were willing to get greysheet bid for. These have come down some.
    One '99-W $10 unc gold eagle in ICG 69 $1100
    One UHR $20 gold in PCGS FS MS70- surprising because they are plentiful -- people must want to hold onto these
     
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  20. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Re: Future rarity of modern commems...

    Spouses:

    They are getting respect in COIN VALUES magazine today's brand new version. The first 4 are low-balled however.

    No matter when bullion hits $2000 these coins will have that $1000 floor under them too.

    UHR:

    Jordan did mention that this coin is LIKE the 1907 UHR coin to the many SAINTS. Now it is like the NEW UHR coin to the proof & MS & bullion gold eagles plus the SAINTS.

    He said it will go up but not as much as the JUST 12,000 population HR (not the UHR which sells for a million plus!) coin in 1907 did.
     
  21. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Spent another 20 hours in the THREAD book by Jordan. It is absolutely the best coin book I have ever read. Keep in mind my library starts with 1909 Value coin books, the 1930 Max Meil catalogs, plus all the Red Books from the 1940s to present, plus another 50 books for specific research. This fellow really spells it out for the future too.

    This ONE book is worth its weight in silver....

    :2:
     
  22. newmisty

    newmisty Duppy Conqueror Midas Member

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    I've been reading little bits and pieces so far when I have the time. It's really helped dumb everything down for me and made understanding the present and future values much easier than ever before. Thanks again for the recommendations you guys.
     
  23. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Next to bullion, key moderns have done little to nothing the last few months, with some (all 2008 gold buffalos) dropping significantly. This is not unexpected however and Jordan actually describes this as normal in one of his charts, the post-consolidation dip or somesuch.

    With not much to pick from at the coin show I got several raw in mint box '07-W $10 AGE's (mintage 12,xxx) that an online dealer had in stock. I sensed value since they were being offered at over $125 under greysheet bid. It seemed an anomaly since they had several slabbed '07-W $10's for well over greysheet ask. I hope they are not too banged up...
     
  24. WreckingKrewe

    WreckingKrewe New Member

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    First post here, although I've been reading the threads almost daily for a year now (couldn't even register until GIM2 took over). I've been watching this thread and ordered Jordan's book as well. I'm new at this, so my apologies up front, but the series and type investing seems to have passed me by, except for the Proof Buffalos, of which I have the 06, 09 and 10.

    Question: I can fill in the 07, but if I'd like to complete the set, would I be better off chasing either the 08 1oz, or go for the whole set? The prices are rich for both, from what I've seen on Ebay, Gainseville (local to me) and Apmex. I haven't gotten to that part of Jordan's book yet, as I like to read everything cover to cover, front to back...but wanted to see if anyone here would offer me their "what I would do" advice.

    TIA, WK
     
  25. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    There are many coins therein mentioned in the book by JORDAN.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2010
  26. 321AU

    321AU Seeker Seeker

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    I was hoping for a nice pop on the Unc W Gold Eagles when the Mint announced the new Eagle Proof sets but no further production of W Unc. Nothing so far. Seems to be following Jordans chart on page 49. The good news is after the dip and flat spot it just keeps climbing. Some 06,07,08 W Unc are still a great buy if you shop imo.

    One downside for numis is if bullion continues to perform like it is now the numi stuff will perform less percentage wise than the bullion as Jordan talks about.

    That is the great thing about having more than one PM basket as HS always talks about. I was smiling while the numis where flying up and now I can sit back and smile while the silver/gold bullion flies up too.


    Thanks for the coin show updates and prices hernancortes! :bear_thumb:
     
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  27. 321AU

    321AU Seeker Seeker

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    Welcome WreckingKrewe,
    I think you'll need to read and study Jordans book and make that decision. It really comes down to your goals and expectations. Maybe check Modern Coin Mart they have good prices. I haven't been keeping up with Buff proof prices lately and they can change pretty quick.

    I would like to have that coin too but as soon as silver broke its 08 high I poured everything I have into adding to my silver bullion stack and numis are on the back burner for awhile.

    A few months ago I spent some money chasing 08s I wanted and they have been flat ever since but they are still gold and rare and in the long run I'm confident that they are going to do well.

    Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
     
  28. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Remember gold sliver numismatics (bars coins slabs mint sets) are NOT going up: no sir re, the US dollar is FALLING by a monetary over-issue as are the worlds' fiat currencies.

    As the I'm NOT A CROOK said, "We are all on FIAT now - 1971!"

    In 40 years gold has started at $35.00 an ounce and climbed to $1,410.00 today plus the premium for a coin. OR paper printed made IT go UP 40.28 times....

    Silver was $1.39 the whole year of 1971 average. Today it hit $27.68 Or paper printed made it go up 19.91 times. It will catch up with GOLD....

    "SILVER the RESTLESS METAL," book by Jastram....
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2010
  29. WreckingKrewe

    WreckingKrewe New Member

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    Thanks for the replies all. I understand the numis are for fun, and the buffalos just struck a fancy in me. I'm not personally a fan of slabbed coins, and the proofs I have are the mint box/coa variety. I don't intend to submit to a grading service, but would like to complete the set and hold onto them long term.

    I thought the part of Jordan's book re: ultra long cycle taxable events was interesting. HS, I know you've posted a few times on the .gov's interest in annuitizing (seizing) tax deferred accounts, and that would w/o a doubt would be the impetus for me to shut down my 401k or convert to a Roth, but the part of the book that argues for realizing taxes now before they go up was an eye opener...seems like all we are left with these days are tough choices.

    Best, WK
     
  30. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I'm very conflicted on the whole IRA thing that's promoted in the book. I hate the idea of having an IRA custodian- who doesn't necessarily know coins - handle your stuff to be put in an allocated account which is held in storage several states away. That is NOT piece of mind which defeats the whole purpose of holding physical. On the other hand if PM IRA's became more widely popular think of what effect that would have on the Eagle and Buff keys.
     
  31. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    Good stuff...


    to add to that remember...

    Especially with the CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS going on trying to figure out how they can CONFISCATE the IRAs and 501s, right?

    I expect that the BANK CDs and savings accounts will be transfered into TEASURIES overnight with a FDR/Obummer type executive order via TRADING with the ENEMY law.
    Like the test they already did successfully in Argentina.... just a while past...

    Mommy drowned all the DUMB ones I'm swimming out of the CESS pool filled with crockidiles aligators snakes and KILLER money sharks...
     
  32. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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  33. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    It dismays me somewhat to learn this (since I dont own any) but it would seem that for condition-rarity, the 1991 $25 unc. gold eagle is the true key to the $25 AGE series. Jordan suggests such in his book. They do not come up often, but last month a couple raw examples sold on ebay for I think, $1600 and $1800. I check today and a recent auction finished at over $2000 --- in ANACS-68 no less. Remember in '91 there really was no one slabbing bullion and so these were treated as bullion for a very long time. Some are likely locked away in IRA accounts. Maybe someone can favor us with NGC/PCGS pop reports for the '91?
     
  34. jogslvr

    jogslvr Gold Miser Gold Chaser

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    I was thinking that Jordan favored the 2007W but you may be on to something good.

    Now, an ASE question: Wha'sup with the MS69 slabbed (2008 "non W")? They are going for $70 range on fleabay yet the mintage is one of the highest? :hmmmm2:

    PS: BTW, I accidently purchased a NCG slabbed PF69 "Yellowstone" commemorative last night and I don't do Proofs. I guess I was having one of my senior moments. I need an UNC "yellowstone". Anyone need this proof? Will trade for Ag or certain raw commems of equal value. I've got $46 in it. Looking for equitable swap. Hell, I might even take a little loss cuz I don't want it!
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
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  35. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    NGC has 3050 total graded 1991 MS UNC $25 with 30 @ MS70

    PCGS has 1482 total graded 1991 MS UNC $25 with 13 @ MS70.


    Good overview on your thought pattern. If you read the BACK to BASICS (I always have to review that!)
    type stuff on sales at the article on:

    http://coins.about.com/?nl=1

    You'll see what I saw years ago. If you slab something it makes it really worth the time, trouble, and expense.


    Moral is SLAB 'em if you have 'em. Join one of the clubs on NGC or PCGS get access to their web sites for info and populations and GET those FREE certificates and send in your BULLION coins. :23_30_104:

    Like smoke 'em if you got 'em from a way earlier age.

    50 years ago.... BOO HOO... (rhymes with that LITTLE jerk above jumping up and down!)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2010
  36. jogslvr

    jogslvr Gold Miser Gold Chaser

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    I have almost completed the Mint State set in OGP, not slabbed MS69's. In many cases you'll find the OGP's are much harder to find and can cost more because you have the chance of getting a MS70 grade if you submit. I am having trouble finding one in particular hard to find mofo. Has any one got an extra 1995-D Civil War UNC in OGP? I'd pay up to $75 cash or good old heavy 999 Ag.

    Another question: Does Dansco make an album for the dollar commemoratives? If not, I would think they should as there is bound to be enough collectors of this set to make it worth their while. It would really be nice to find an album in leather that has a zipper all around the 3 sides. Do those exist anywhere or am I going to have to make my own?
     
  37. jogslvr

    jogslvr Gold Miser Gold Chaser

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    If any of you are still working on the mint state commemorative dollar set, I have something you might need at the right price. Talking about the three 1993-W's Vietnam, POW, and Women in Service coins. I saw an OGP set going cheap on the Bay and snatched it. My set is already complete but couldn't pass up a deal when I saw it. According to Eric jordan, they are worth $173 total in MS69. I'd swap even for 4 Ag 1ozt. rounds of any kind. Just FYI, no profit incentive here.
     
  38. silverblood

    silverblood Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I just bought Eric Jordan's book on Amazon, should arrive in a couple of days. I have no idea what much of the jargon and acronyms I see in this thread mean, so I hope he explains all that.
     
  39. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Apmex has the spouse in 70 for 59 over melt, they get no respect for the mintage. Even my dealer always offers at melt when he gets them.
     
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  40. HistoryStudent

    HistoryStudent Midas Member Midas Member

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    A few years patience is needed per JORDAN...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzf0rvQa4Mc


    Historically the same thing happened in 1907 with the SAINTS in HIGH RELIEF. I'd love to buy one now in MS65 for $25 to $40 bucks...
    like they smart ones did in 1908-1911.
    :haha::haha:


    Drum roll please...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzf0rvQa4Mc

    More like $60,000.00 now per PCGS price guide minus 8 grand.

    Give the spouse say in 2008 to 2011 minus the LINCOLNS in MS
    a few years and IMVHO they'll go for triple what your dealer would
    take. Remember they melted 10,000 of the first 3 issues due to lack of interest.

    Read Jordan's book...
     

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