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More Dirt on the Bitcoin

Discussion in 'Digital Currencies' started by Scorpio, Nov 19, 2015.



  1. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    More Dirt on the Bitcoin
    Hugo Salinas Price

    Suppose someone wished to sell his house, way back in the 1890's when gold was used as money, and somebody came to that person and said, "I'll give you "x" ounces of gold for your house", and suppose the offer was accepted. This was a commercial operation, where goods traded hands - the owner of a house sold a house, and received gold; the other party delivered some gold and purchased a house.

    When, in bygone days, a house was sold for gold coins, all that the seller had to regard was the quantity of gold in the coins offered and whether that quantity was satisfactory or not. Gold was recognized as money!

    Now suppose you wish to sell your house today, and someone offers to pay for it in "x" number of Bitcoins. The quantity of Bitcoins - unlike a quantity of gold in yesteryear - would mean absolutely nothing to you. You would have to relate the Bitcoins to something else, namely the dollar. You would want to know for how many dollars you could exchange your Bitcoins. The answer would determine whether or not you sold your house.

    It is quite clear that the Bitcoin can only aspire to be a derivative of the dollar. It cannot aspire to anything greater: to have an independent, sovereign value, since, unlike gold, it is not something - something that has a physical existence.

    The dollar is presently rising in its exchange value against all other currencies. But no one can deny that the dollar is itself a fiat currency, and that in all history, absolutely all fiat currencies have ended in the total collapse of their value in exchange.

    What future awaits the Bitcoin when the fiat dollar finally crashes? Without a dollar to refer to, what is a Bitcoin? It is "the shadow of a dream".

    What I am getting at is that the Bitcoin is a non-thing. It will never be able to have an independent, sovereign value on its own, because it is a non-thing, just like all currencies in the world today are non-things, including the (temporarily) Almighty Dollar, which became an absolute non-thing precisely on Sunday, August 15, 1971.

    The creators and promoters of the Bitcoin are perhaps acting in good faith, but they are individuals enthralled with technology. The Bitcoin may indeed be a technological marvel, but the creators and promoters of the Bitcoin do not understand money, and they do not understand that the creation of money cannot be accomplished by technology, no matter how sophisticated it may be. The ignorant public of today is also bewitched by the marvels of technology and has been thoroughly deceived by false economists about what money is and must be, and this opens the way for such fantasies as the Bitcoin.

    I stand by my opinion that the Bitcoin is, in fact if not in intention, a fraud; it is an attempt to muscle-in on the enormous scam of universal fiat money, which is a curse upon mankind. And as a scam, it will go to the dust-bin of History, along with the world's present fiat money system.

    http://www.plata.com.mx/mplata/articulos/articlesFilt.asp?fiidarticulo=274
     
  2. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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  3. GOLD DUCK

    GOLD DUCK Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    QWAK,"GOLD is MONEY" nuff said!:applause_smiley::2:

    the DUCK :s11:
     
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  4. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Bitcoin is 'vapor'currency. FRN's are only pieces of paper or numbers on a computer screen. Gold and silver are tangible assets that have actual value, not represented value based on someone's promises alone
     
  5. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    While it was used as money, it was still measured in dollars. Always has been and still is, fixed or not.
    If the dollar should ever cease to exist, gold as well as BTC (if it is still around at the time) will just be measured with something else.

    Actually, has there ever been a time when gold coins were not valued in comparison to something else? Ie measured for value?
     
  6. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Since when does one guy's admitted opinion constitute 'more dirt'?

    bb
     
  7. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    If the dollar crashes, Bitcoin will rise in dollar amount as will everything else. The op doesn't make any sense.

    Going by the same logic as the op, if the dollar crashes then so will gold because it's priced in dollars.
     
    skychief likes this.
  8. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Anyone who has ANY of their wealth tied up in Bitcoin is at tremendous risk. Don't ask me why....I don't think any of us know....that's the 'risk' part!!!
     
  9. GOLD DUCK

    GOLD DUCK Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    QWAK,Mujahideen,When not IF the dollar crashes bitcoin could go to infinity but you could not spend the bitcoin because no one would accept them as payment for goods or services.:thumb.aspx:

    You can bet your pants they would/will accept GOLD or SILVER in hand:2: --- that is why GOLD is real MONEY!:applause_smiley:

    the DUCK :s11:
     
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  10. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    I....ummm...agree....errrrr....I think!

    Yeah, I do!! Great point Mr. Duck!
     
  11. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    I dont doubt that gold will be around after the dollar, but if people wish to send money over the net, you can't do that with physical.

    Like it or not digital currency's have a place and do things gold can't do.
     
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  12. SilverBuyer

    SilverBuyer Silver Member Silver Miner

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    These people kill me, wake up and smell the roses. Fiat money is not going anywhere. The dollar won't last forever but you when it does fall you can be damn sure there will be another fiat monetary system not far behind.

    Electronic and paper money is too convenient, its here to stay.

    What's the new dirt revealed about bitcoin? He's just saying the same old shit said a million times over and thought this was worthy of an article......Wow!
     
  13. GOLD DUCK

    GOLD DUCK Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    QWAK,SilverBuyer,You are making statements based on your assumptions that BANKERS have trained you to believe. :s13:

    All fiat and bitcoin too is backed up by TRUST:thumb.aspx: but when trust is lost you got NOTHING:bawling: but what the little boy shot at and missed ---- NOTHING!:36_1_25:

    When you have actual hard money --- GOLD or SILVER coin:applause_smiley: -- people are much more likely to TRUST that they got SOMTHING for any goods or services they may have given you!:thinkey:

    Yes fiat and bitcoin and bank checks are much more convient BUT only because there are people are willing to TRUST they won't wind up with NOTHING!:2:

    the DUCK :s11:
     
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  14. SilverBuyer

    SilverBuyer Silver Member Silver Miner

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    The bankers trained me to believe? That is funny since I'm 100% against the federal reserve/bankster machinations. All you have to do is take a look at history to understand that fiat money is here to stay. People have been fleeced time after time by the banksters fiat schemes yet they always go back.

    Paper money IS a good option for daily transactions. Preferably it would be backed by gold/silver but that is unlikely to happen anytime soon.

    What would be nice is if they let gold and silver be traded freely, a free market where people can choose what they want to use for money would be ideal.
     
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  15. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    And the whole reason why paper money exists is because gold doesn't make logistical sense for daily use. I know this because I used to be a cashier supervisor for years. Paper is way easier to handle than coins.

    Gold is great at preserving wealth through time, but that's about it as far as finances go. It's a pain to handle and nearly impossible to send long distances.

    And the response is always BUT WHAT IF SHTF.... Well then buy preps. Only an idiot would sell needed supplies for practically worthless metal in that scenario... You think the farmer down the street would want your shiny gold coin in the middle of an apocalypse? Fuck no. He is worried about getting robbed and killed.
     
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  16. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    Yes he would

    He needs fertilizer, he needs water, he needs...something
    That shiny stuff you think would be worthless would be passed around so everyone could get what they wanted

    Not all strawberry growers would need the gold but they could trade it to the chicken farmer who doesn't need it either but he has the fertilizer, and so on...

    In a SHTF scenario, yes, certainly, gold will have it's place

    And if someone thinks they're going to get killed, that gold would provide for them some type of armament easier than a chicken or head of lettuce or a can of beans would
     
  17. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    If things get so bad to the point where a farmer has to barter in gold for supplies, millions of people are going to starve and society will collapse. You need a certain amount of stability for our current market place to work, you knock one leg out, like say the dollar, and it all comes crashing down.

    Unless you live in a self sufficient community, it ain't gonna work shtf. Gold won't make you self sufficient... And let's not forget that gold can only go where you go.

    Good luck paying your bills in gold.
    Good luck getting supplies located 50 miles away.
    Good luck doing anything with gold, not really that much in many people's hands to begin with.
     
  18. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok I'd rather be Midas Member

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    "It is quite clear that the Bitcoin can only aspire to be a derivative of the dollar. It cannot aspire to anything greater: to have an independent, sovereign value, since, unlike gold, it is not something - something that has a physical existence."

    Wondering how long it will take for the dollar using polulation to realize that the dollar (and pound, and...) is the exact same thing.

    R.
     
  19. GOLD DUCK

    GOLD DUCK Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    QWAK,SilverBuyer,YES the bankers and the GOV they own have trained you to THINK of FIAT as actual money rather than what is was/is --- a SUBSTITUTE for real actual hard money GOLD and SILVER coin!:thinkey::thumb.aspx:

    It took several generations to gradgualy train the public to see fiat as money and TRUST in it but truth is only actual GOLD and SILVER are MONEY!:2:

    Credit cards widened the gap between reality and fanticy and if every one uses and accepts them then fear of them disapates BUT when the music :musical_note: (credit) stops REALITY hits real hard!:36_1_25::bawling:

    bitcoin is a step farther in to the fanticy world --- simple to use but the danger of getting burned and "holding the bag" is multiplied many times over the farther away you get from hard coin in hand!:36_1_25::36_1_28:

    That is why you buy GOLD and SILVER you can hold :applause_smiley: NOT to resell to a greater fool like stocks or bonds etc!:thinkey::2:

    the DUCK :s11:
     

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