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Paul Ryan wants to cut Medicare, Social security.

Discussion in 'Politics Forum (Local/National/World)' started by gliddenralston, Jan 11, 2018.



  1. gliddenralston

    gliddenralston Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., and the Republican Party seem intent on punishing a key part of their base – older Americans
    Ryan announced Wednesday that in 2018 the Republicans will be ready to put Medicare on the chopping block to pay for tax cuts. And those tax cuts are aimed at corporations and the rich – not the middle-class.

    “We’re going to have to get back next year at entitlement reform, which is how you tackle the debt and the deficit,” Ryan said. But a good chunk of the future deficit and debt would be fueled by separate tax-cutting bills approved by the House and Senate. The two houses still need to reach agreement on a single piece of legislation for it to go to President Trump for his signature.


    As usual, the numbers tell the story. In 2016, older voters who were the most likely to look to Medicare to pay for their health care in retirement put Donald Trump over the top. According to Election Day exit polls, he garnered an almost 20-point margin among white seniors, a 28 percent lead among whites voters ages 45 to 64, and a historic 37-point victory with white working-class voters.

    But now the GOP seeks to punish the very folks who brought them to power. Unlike food stamps and welfare, Medicare and Social Security are benefits that working Americans have earned over a lifetime of steady, reliable, and conscientious work. They paid for these benefit with weekly payroll deductions.

    In other words, Social Security and Medicare are not welfare. Working Americans shouldn’t be treated as moochers. As Trump declared back in 2013: “It’s not unreasonable for people who paid into a system for decades to expect to get their money’s worth – that’s not an ‘entitlement,’ that’s honoring a deal.”


    For Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., targeting earned entitlements like Social Security and Medicare is nothing new.

    Fresh off his 2012 loss as the Republican vice presidential candidate, Ryan – then chairman of the House Budget Committee – unsuccessfully pressed the idea of restricting Medicare to Americans who were already at least 56, and giving younger workers vouchers when they hit retirement.

    In the aftermath of recapturing the Senate in 2014 and on the eve of the 2015 State of the Union address, McConnell beseeched President Obama to “allow us to save and strengthen Medicare” and to “cooperate with both parties to save Social Security.” In other words, make sure both parties have their hands on the dagger and no one will get blamed.

    In case Ryan and McConnell forgot, the sole source of income for most Americans now turning 65 is their monthly Social Security check, which averages a little more than $1,200 – before paying $100 a month for Medicare Part B. And the GOP is now a predominately working class party, with voters relying on their earned retirement benefits.

    Indeed, among whites without a college degree, the mortality rate is rising. As death from heart disease and cancer have slowed, drug overdoses, suicide and alcoholism have increased.

    Moreover, Alzheimer’s disease looms as a disaster for all – a development that stands ready to blow the lid off of any budget. Already, Japan is confronting a “pandemic of dementia” and there is no reason to believe that America won’t be next.

    Which leaves us with President Trump. As a candidate, he took a “you paid for it, it’s yours” approach to older Americans. In May 2015, Trump tweeted: “I was the first & only potential GOP candidate to state there will be no cuts to Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid. Huckabee copied me.”

    But stating is one thing. Doing something is another.

    Now Paul Ryan is sounding like a guy who thinks he’s convinced the president to take a 180- degree turn on Medicare. Ryan has let the world know that he has been speaking privately with President Trump, and that the president has started to cotton to the idea of cutting entitlements.

    As Ryan framed things: “I think the president is understanding choice and competition works everywhere, especially in Medicare.”

    Politically, this looks like a play that the Republican cannot afford as they head into the 2018 midterm elections. If the recent Virginia governor’s race and the latest polls tell us anything, it is that younger voters don’t support the GOP, and that the Republicans need older voters if they are retain their grip on Congress.

    This past November in Virginia, Ralph Northam – the successful Democratic candidate for governor – outran Hillary Clinton by 15 points among voters under 30, and by 8 percent among the 30-44 set.

    By contrast, Ed Gillespie, the Republican, barely matched Trump’s margins with older Virginians and lost by 9 percent.

    Although GOP congressional leaders Ryan and McConnell seem intent on pleasing Republican donors. But they need to remember that politics is about winning – not sticking it to your base.

    Creating a Republican version of “death panels” by cutting Medicare and Social Security is a surefire way to hand Democrats control of Congress in the 2018 elections and turn the congressional GOP into the minority party.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017...s-to-cut-medicare-and-stick-to-gops-base.html
     
  2. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Amazing how none of these "republicans" worried about paying for all the spending hussein was doing.

    Lyin paul ryan needs to be cut and his assets sent to the treasury dept.


    .
     
  3. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Republicans will have massive losses if they cut SS and medicare
     
  4. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Ropes don't differentiate between Republicans and Democrats!!

    swinging noose.gif
     
  5. TAEZZAR

    TAEZZAR LADY JUSTICE ISNT BLIND, SHES JUST AFRAID TO WATCH Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Let's cut his, & other political hacks, excessive salaries, medical insurance & retirement !
     
  6. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What if we just cut the 100s of billions of foreign aid?
    Tell them that we need to care for our old folk first.
     
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  7. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    They are using foreign aid for empire building anyway. Paying off leaders to allow the banksters to fleece the sheeple. Time to end that shit.
     
  8. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    I am willing to bet we will see just that, but it will be done slowly over time and not announced for dramatic effect.
    Telling everybody your exact moves is stupid.
    The uniparty/globalists gained power by stealth and they will lose power the same way, IMO.


    .
     
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  9. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    First totally annihilate Oberrycare, jail or execute Killary, cut off or at least castrate a few alphabets (I'd go for DHS/CIA/NSA/FBI/IRS/EPA/BATFE/FDA{CDC too}) shut down dept of education and dept. of commerce, then and ONLY then, maybe congress could start straightening out Medicare but NOT cutting it....basically sort out what and who is payable and dropping a LOT of pointless paperwork and pointless paperworkers, after they have fixed Medicaid first(no sex change operations, no abortions unless mother's life is endangered) quit forcing recipients to purchase ONLY those items and quantities of supplies that are most expensive, again cutting pointless paperwork and paperworkers. I would also suggest freezing the salaries of congresscritters for a period of one decade and then allowing only a COLA equivalent to that of social security recipients and removing the authority to devise and set their own salaries.

    This may be such a HUGE set of conditions as to confound, confuse and befuddle congress so as to put the whole package on the back burner and buy enough time to vote out or have resign the many RINOs like Ryan and find a group of congresscritters to comprise at least one brain among them.

    Meanwhile they may learn to do sensible stuff like trimming back the military and maybe procuring sensible, functional weaponry UNLIKE the F35 and shutting down some of those 800 bases around the globe and maybe having a military that is strong, well armed and stationed IN America to protect America. I know, it's a far-fetched idea to have Americans protecting America instead of "projecting power" (See! Our dick IS bigger than yours!). The MIC guys, pentagon and state dept. can just sell off the surplus and when that's gone the MIC guys can deploy their own sales force or just learn to build other stuff between wars sort of like what Rockola, Smith-Corona and Detroit's "BIG 3" used to do. It's worked well before, why not now?
     
  10. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Works for me.
     
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  11. gliddenralston

    gliddenralston Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    If Trump really is listening to Ryan...he & the Repub's can forget about 18/20...with 74 million boomers, 65 million Gen X...plus they'll be carrying all the rest homers to the polls just make sure none of them get re-elected.
     
  12. luckabuck

    luckabuck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Ryan is going to lose his leadership position, and probably will not run for reelection. He is going to do as much damage as he can before this happens!
     
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  13. stAGgering

    stAGgering Silver Miner Seeker

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    Relying upon anyone but oneself, is foolish.
    Relying upon a govt, is stupidity.
    Study history, and view who took care of "We the People" that started this country.
    Uhhmmm, eerrrrrrr, hhmmmm, NOBODY.
    Yes friends and the mythical today "family"; not the govt.
    Do I believe Medicare/Medicaid/SS/etc should be canceled, yes.
    FDR/FR fooked us/US, and belief therein was deep throated.
    However, I agree with anywoundedduck, and USA should begin to contract, to its core.
    Therefore, "We the People" come first and financial support for, is last to be ceased.
    A generation this would take.
    Or... USA can just default upon all at once, which rapidly approaches.
    We have cities, counties, and states tickling bankruptcy.
    30 years ago, shit 20 years ago, people would have laughed if they heard such.
    Ross Perot said it "A giant sucking sound" and it is from the soul/sole of America.
    In 20 or 30 years who and what will be, that now is not even "plausible" for most.
    I dare say, based upon exponential difference between 30 years ago and now, that I do not know.
    The Matrix quibbling is, as many as there are, but a wave on ocean current, a grain of sand in a dune, a star in the sky.
    Time "stolen" by all trivial specks, priceless.
     
  14. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I agree. However, we are dealing with politicians here that are quite a bit like an overgrown colony of parasites supported by a populace that is just slightly more intelligent than a box of rocks so we're having to take baby steps. They're short, lack direction and are just excited to be up and able to move about no matter how clumsy, no matter how many times they fall. Baby steps are the key in moving toward freedom. Remember, these muscles are virtually brand new and have not been exercised or strengthened enough to move as even 7 year old child would, let alone an adult. So, for now, we need to encourage these baby steps until they can walk with real skill and we can train them to totally shut down all the unconstitutional parts of the government. This is beyond potty training and learning how to dress themselves, probably right about the time they start learning to put their toys away. We also have to train the populace too. Once we get past these "terrible twos" and their nonsensical tantrums (see: BLM/Antifarts/LGBTQ/etc.). They be getting out of their diapers pretty soon.
     
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  15. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Politicians get a lifetime pension and medical care.

    They never consider spending less... ever!
     
  16. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What's weird to me personally, now that I hit 70, is that I would love to continue working, but maybe for 3 days a week, or 5 hours a day. I wonder if productivity would increase if you brought the experience back into the workforce. From what I have seen, the Melinnials need a lot of help.
    But my point is, instead of forcing the old folks out the door, start phasing them out with shorter hours for 8 to 10 years. Make it volunteer, but make it available., But totally volunteer.
    If you have even 50% participation, you just solved the Social Security and Medicare shortfalls.
    If you enacted something like that, then you would need the Social Security fund lockbox, to keep politicians, like Ryan, to keep their mitts off of it.
     
  17. arminius

    arminius Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    Hard to see that kind of sanity at this point.
     
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  18. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    They already got their mitts on it. The so-called lock box contains nothing more than promises to tax you again in order to pay the SS monies owed to you.

    Ie: they taxed you under the guise of investing it for your retirement, but what they really did was to immediately spend it on (then) current expenditures and write you an IOU that will be made good by taxes they'll collect from you in the future. (now)

    This would be like lending someone $20 and when it comes time for him to pay it back, has to get $30 more from you in order to do so. Everyone learns quickly that that person is a deadbeat and stops givin' 'em money.
    ...but when the gov does it, we're supposed to think it's normal and just carry on like usual.
     
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  19. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    A good observation since politicians live to wallow in the shite...:2 thumbs up:
     
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  20. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Boomers aren't dead yet, still vote just like all the free stuff folks in the cesspool cities and remain a force to be reckoned with! These idiots in DC aren't too bright
     
  21. Rusty Shackelford

    Rusty Shackelford Midas Member Midas Member

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    How many time should does this have to be dispelled?
     
  22. mayhem

    mayhem Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter

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    My God Duck!
    How dare you speak such sanity.
    +100
     
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  23. Son of Gloin

    Son of Gloin Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    Man, that's one helluva list.
     
  24. Silver

    Silver Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    10,000 new applicants a day for as far as the eye can see - it's down to 2.2 workers per recipient.
     
  25. Silver

    Silver Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    My dad has been collecting for 30 years at the max (1800 something a month - my mom never work and she collected for many years at a reduced rate. Paid in little - 2.5% of the first 5 g's during most of working life. Damn good deal. WW11 generation got a lot of bennies. There isn't much left.
     
  26. mayhem

    mayhem Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter

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    The destruction of the family unit starting in the late 1950's hasn't helped this problem of taking care of our elderly either. Both of my grandparents were taken care of by family in their elder years. But, in the late 50, early 60 putting women to work because we no longer needed large family's to sustain our clans. I remember my grandfather's house. It was built by him and his five sons. three generations were born and lived there until the late 90's when the family unit was destroyed and it was finally sold because they needed NEW stuff, not fixing up the old. My father moved away from his roots for work. Only one brother stayed there in that small town.

    As far as SS for retirement I saw the handwriting on the wall 40 years ago, and made plans for myself as I never worked for anyone else, I was always self employed. I then paid the max into SS for at least 30 of my 45 working years. I had my employer retirement plan (sounded good at the time), In retro I probably should have been doing the investing myself. But realistically I was running as business, raising kids, and had to have some social life, so allowing others to take care of my investments was a reasonable move. Got hammered in 2000, and then again in 2008 pretty hard. I didn't loose all, but I'm not living the life I kinda hoped I would when I was socking away so much of my earnings during middle age.

    Bottom line isn't SS and Medicare are bad things, as I believe we do owe as a society to our elders who got us here. I'm now 75 and have offered my vast knowledge to different groups who claim they want to help young folks learn lost trades. But as soon as I approach the so-called leaders of these groups they immediately back away when they realize that I know more than they do, have a Liberty mindset, and would probably ruin their dream of creating worker bees for the indentured slavery programs.

    Truth is from where I sit nothing will change until we have a complete re-set including a lot of bloodshed and severe hardship. Yeah not the brightest outlook, but this whole world is in shambles and needs a good cleansing to remove the pervasive evil that controls the systems.

    I know that if TSHTF and I was in a foxhole with some SJW who whines that SS needs to be done away with I would no doubt just shoot him between the eyeballs. Ungrateful idiot who had his diapers changed soon after he was born by that person collecting a measly 1k a month from a fund that sucked 15% of his earnings for the last 45 years.
     
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  27. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    They don't want to cut it for retirees who paid into the system. They want to cut it from the able bodied freeloaders and immigrants who collect for a lifetime from an early age without contributing anything.

    You all reacted just like Nancy Pelosi. Think about it.
     
  28. mayhem

    mayhem Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter

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    Yeah, until ten minutes before they vote on it and someone slips in amendment that changes the whole thing. Not like they don't do this very often. Their most popular way is to allow some un-elected bureaucrat to define the rules. That way they can cover their a$$es.
     
  29. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    That is it right there, that is what will save it for the people who paid in their whole lives. Look at just one point in time, the bush/hussein presidencies.
    Hussein moved millions of able bodied people directly from long term unemployment to SS because they are "disabled." Bush the 2 set it up.
    The vast majority are not disabled they just took an easy out that was handed to them in exchange for voting demonrat.

    The demonrats need dependents to stay in power, period. They need a permanent victim underclass. By doing so they lock people into poverty.
    Bush #2 started the process by telling people to stay there on the couch, we'll extend your unemployment while we get your jobs back.
    The people who listened to that lie got classified as lazy long term unemployed and nobody would to hire them. Hussein moved them to SS.

    .
     
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  30. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I did not hear anything about not cutting the true contributers.
    I need to fucking hear it, then I will back the bill. Get rid of all non-contributers first.
     
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  31. Silver

    Silver Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    It's a tough situation, so many dependent on the government to keep their promises. I'm eligible for SS but I'm not going to apply. I've spent most of my life trying to pay as little as as could by gearing my income toward tax free income and investment income that doesn't have employment taxes attached to it.
     
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  32. Pyramid

    Pyramid Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Agree with the above posts by nickndfl, Irons, and anywoundedduck. Lyin Ryan is a POS or semi-POS globalist, but he's no dummy. He knows that cutting Social Security and Medicare is political suicide to him and the Republiturd party. With that being said...

    Article in the OP and the links within that OP are filled with biases, half-truths, out-of-context quotes, outright BS and inaccurate information by the fake news establishments. Nowhere in any of them did Ryan say directly that Social Security and Medicare funding would be cut. My interpretation of this is that "entitlement" programs such as welfare, food stamps, disability, Section 8 Housing etc. would be the subject of evaluation and cuts; not programs such as SS and Medicare that working Americans have been forced to pay into since FDR signed SS into law in 1935, and LBJ signed into law Medicare in 1965. YMMV...good luck out there folks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  33. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Welfare has to be reduced to bags of mix- with -water- gruel for anybody under the age 62. Anytime I see a clip of hood rats fighting or protesting or being arrested they all have tattoo's, smartphones, hair weaves and fake nails. Seriously, 100% fuck all of that.

    .
     
  34. DodgebyDave

    DodgebyDave Metal Messiah Midas Member

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  35. EO 11110

    EO 11110 He Hate Me Mother Lode

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    cutting through the crap....let's do reality

    ronald reagan appointed alan greenspan to study the social security situation. greenspan studied and came back with his advice to fix social security into perpetuity. fed gov instituted a MASSIVE ss tax increase on both employees and employers. this money was to be held in a fund.

    fast forward to bill clinton. clinton sees this big pile of money sitting there and takes it, replacing it with iou. clinton parades around claiming zero deficit....hiding the fact that he essentially stole all of the money from ss fund.

    every fedgov since then has used ss contributions as spending money -- instead depositing iou into the fund.

    the ss funds were used to acquire and maintain the gigantic fedgov operation. an operation that has $150 in assets sitting on the balance sheet. these assets were bought/maintained using ss funds.

    all fedgov has to do is sell some of those assets and put the money back into the ss fund. how much are the lands, minerals, hydrocarbons worth in the western half of the US that they own? and that's just getting started...

    watch the repug/dim liars claim that we have to take cuts because income is less than outgo. they intentionally hide the assets on the balance sheet that could be sold and used to shore up ss security as far as the eye can see. just like reagan/greenspan designed.

    EVERY jackass that advocates for cuts, for means testing, is trying to hide the fact that they stole the money and dont want to pay it back.

    spread the word
     
  36. Silver

    Silver Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    "all fedgov has to do is sell some of those assets and put the money back into the ss fund. how much are the lands, minerals, hydrocarbons worth in the western half of the US that they own?"

    You can't sell what you don't lawfully own.

    Article I, Section 8, Clause 17 of the Constitution for the United States. "States had exclusive jurisdiction over all land within their borders; a constitutional provision was needed before it could be ceded to the federal government. This provision would also allow the federal government to purchase land, within the States, "for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dock-yards, and other needful buildings and have the power to exercise exclusive legislation granted to the Congress." This means, "By the consent of the legislature of the state." and "Only Congress has authority to legislate for the area."
     
  37. EO 11110

    EO 11110 He Hate Me Mother Lode

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    you obviously havent been paying attention. put down those books and laws. 'they' do whatever the hell they want to do
     
  38. EO 11110

    EO 11110 He Hate Me Mother Lode

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  39. EO 11110

    EO 11110 He Hate Me Mother Lode

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    factoid from gov. note it doesn't mention one red cent from earning interest. if it did, the 2.8 trillion surplus would be multiple times bigger. surpluses compounding for 82 years...

    https://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/

    Over the program's 82-year history, it has collected roughly $19.9 trillion and paid out $17.1 trillion, leaving asset reserves of more than $2.8 trillion at the end of 2016 in its two trust funds.
     
  40. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    More like $2.8 trillion in accounting magic. The so-called surplus is merely the amount the gov has to raise in taxes in order to be able to pay off those bonds in the trust fund. Ie: the money was "invested" in govs power of taxation, and nothing more. That's what the trust fund represents, a promise to tax you in order to be able to pay you what you've been promised.
     
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