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PCGS SLABS TONING!

Discussion in 'PM's - Coins - Numis - Base Metals' started by michael, Jan 11, 2012.



  1. SirOzzyyzzO

    SirOzzyyzzO Seeker Seeker

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    I used to consider doing just that, however, I was always concerned about the PVC question... But, trust me, if I thought for even a second that the ocean would reach my house during a storm - I would have never had anything other than my basement in my basement and not all my coins, TV, furniture etc. etc...
     
  2. EO 11110

    EO 11110 He Hate Me Mother Lode

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    just wanted to confirm the toning issue on pcgs coin gold (modern commems). i've been looking around the net at them - and a large percentage of them are toning

    don't know about the bullion, anyone looked at coin gold versus bullion gold?
     
  3. Solo

    Solo Midas Member Midas Member

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    I focus mainly on modern US mint products so those are what I pay attention to. I have noticed quite a bit of toning in across all gold products in pcgs slabs, but some coins seem worse than others (eg. burnished gold eagles and spouse coins seem to tone quite quickly). I have also seen it on run of the mill bullion gold eagles and proof gold eagles, but not as frequently. This could be because I don't pay as much attention to those coins or it could be because most folks don't slab boring bullion eagles, however the point is I have seen them tone in pcgs slabs as well.
     
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  4. Hanksboy

    Hanksboy New Member

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    I submitted eight gold coins to PCGS in July of 2011. They ranged from a UHR to commemoratives to buffaloes to burnished AGEs. Of the eight, seven are now exhibiting the toning effect. These coins were all purchased from the mint and were submitted to PCGS in their original plastic capsules. The coins had never been removed from the capsules. There is no doubt in my mind that PCGS introduced something that caused the toning. I also have a foreign gold coin that was placed in a Secure PCGS holder during one of their promotions that exhibits the same toning. This is all very frustrating for me as I have tried to slab everything with PCGS because I thought they were the best. That is obviously out the window. I don't believe I'll ever again submit a coin to them. Further, is there any sense in buying any gold coin in a PCGS slab that is two or three years old (I'm a long time collector and have never had this problem with other PCGS slabbed gold)? I can understand why the hobby publications are reluctant to comment but the problem seems to be widespread and I feel the publications need to serve the hobby and raise the flag.
     
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  5. californiajeff

    californiajeff New Member

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    I hate to burst anyone's bubble but there is no plastic slab that is truly air tight. Oxygen migrates through plastic. That is why shelf stable military rations are sealed in metal containers.

    So the question becomes is it something in the plastic causing this or is it something in the local air that is migrating through the plastic?
     
  6. EO 11110

    EO 11110 He Hate Me Mother Lode

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    either way, it's a pcgs-only problem
     
  7. Solo

    Solo Midas Member Midas Member

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    I hate replying to someone that can't reply currently, and this isn't meant as a personal attack, but I wanted to reply to these statements since they are 100% poppycock regarding this discussion. I have seen pure gold (.999) spouse coins tone in pcgs slabs within a year. That simply should NOT happen, let alone all of the wild and vivid colors that we're seeing in 2006 - 2008 burnished gold. Yes alloyed gold can and will tone, but it is process that usually takes a fair amount of time and even then a lot of the time you see copper 'strawberries' and not the wild toning seen in the 2008 eagle pictured in this very thread.

    I say this as someone who has literally handled a couple hundred slabbed burnished gold eagles in addition to a fair amount of pure gold spouse coins. Folks don't have to take my word for it though, as I would encourage everyone to hit the large mega shows (where you'll see dozens of each) and research the topic on their own.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2014
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  8. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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  9. WhyKnow

    WhyKnow Thnk Tank Gold Chaser

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    That's why I was a little sad to see that new San Francisco hoard from California go into PCGS. I have one little piece of gold in a PCGS holder. It's toned ugly compared to the ones unslabbed.
     
  10. Solo

    Solo Midas Member Midas Member

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    Thanks for the link HC :). I can only imagine what so many are going to look like a few more years from now... For the sake of posterity, here are the pics from the one above in case the link goes down:

    920473-29b.jpg 920473-29a.jpg 920473-29c.jpg
     
  11. Mr Paradise

    Mr Paradise Midas Member Midas Member

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    Send it back in and ask for a discount on the regrading. ;):(

    Ouch! That sucks guys, nothing like paying to have them F up your numi's.

    ... at least Solo's Boba Fett collection didn't yellow. ;)
     
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  12. Solo

    Solo Midas Member Midas Member

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    Bah, jokes on you as all the cool kids know that it's stormtroopers that yellow:p...Fett figures develop "grey limbs" [where the limb(s) will lighten and look different from the torso] like the figure on the right below :p:p
     

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    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014
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  13. MrLucky

    MrLucky Silver Member Silver Miner

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  14. mcmurph

    mcmurph Seeker Seeker

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    Ok, I have a few questions in regards to this topic. I've got 7 slabbed AGE's ($25) by PCGS and 4 of them are starting to show just the slightest signs of toning. Is it an irreversible process once the toning starts? Should I cut them out of the slabs? Will that stop the toning process? I've always hated the slabbed coins... too bulky. I never paid extra for them, but that's how the dealer sent them to me when I ordered them. Any thoughts or comments are appreciated.
     
  15. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    What are the dates on your coins? Proof or unc? That will depend on whether I would particularly care or not about the toning.
     
  16. mcmurph

    mcmurph Seeker Seeker

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    No proofs. They are 2003 MS69's.
     
  17. tradeshack

    tradeshack Seeker Seeker

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    Is the toning ugly? The PCGS AGE's often develop an antique look that radiates in from the peripherals. I admire this kind of toning.
     
  18. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I'm in the same boat as you as I have a number or 03 and 04's in pcgs 69. I havent even bothered to check if they're toned. The 1/2 oz. AGEs have quite a few desirable dates but 2003 will probably never be one of them, so you can crack them or leave them be. I'm leaving mine as they are.
     
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  19. Solo

    Solo Midas Member Midas Member

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    One of these days (perhaps at the next show) I'm going to buy a bullion priced toning PCGS modern gold coin (spouse, age, whatever). I plan on cracking it to see just what is on the surface of these coins and how easy it is to remove. I have a feeling that the toning will be fairly easy to remove, but I haven't tried yet so that's just speculation. If you crack the coin(s) out though I would bet the toning slows to a near halt and the coins will remain as is. However since I haven't cracked any myself yet I don't know for certain, but since the toning seems to be the result of the PCGS slab freeing the coin from the slab should stop the toning.

    It's hard to imagine a time with 2003 bullion AGE's will be sought after (many exists now in high grade MS form) so if you want to crack them then by all means feel free to do so. Still, some folks like to buy slabbed bullion so I would leave them as is regardless of the toning. Also, one of my local LCS's pays full melt for slabbed bullion whereas they offer melt -3% for raw bullion so that's another thing to consider (though that shop seems to be an exception to the norm).
     
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  20. mcmurph

    mcmurph Seeker Seeker

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    There's nothing radiant about this toning, just a few small spots where there's discoloration.
     
  21. Riot Earp

    Riot Earp New Member

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    I noticed a while back that my PCGS gold eagles were developing ugly red marks and/or patches. Even a gold 24K Buffalo proof was turning red. Now, 24K should not tone, and so I knew that something was very wrong. (My NGC gold has zero toning.) I know that raw 21K and 22K gold will eventually tone, but it's a pre-1933-U.S. type of toning — a pleasing orange-gold color. Worried that the toning would continue to worsen, I cracked out all but two of the PCGS coins, since they were common date MS69s and not worth anything over spot (I checked). I was able to remove the red with e*Z*est coin cleaner, by dipping the coin and then rinsing under running water. After allowing the coins to air dry, I put each one in a black ring Air-Tite capsule. The coins look better in the Air-Tites, to be honest, and they are now toneless. I am watching the remaining two PCGS coins. If they develop that signature red color, I am cracking them out.

    Note: A couple of coins required a second dip in the e*Z*est, after air drying. That red gunk can be stubborn.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
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  22. Riot Earp

    Riot Earp New Member

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    The gasket gets my vote. I have no proof, but I bet that NGC uses a different material.
     
  23. hernancortes

    hernancortes Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Apparently it's not just the slabs that pcgs uses, it's the sealed tubes as well. I have a bunch of ASEs in pcgs rolls stored alongside US mint tubes of ASE's... in most cases the mint rolls have been there longer and have toned not at all while the pcgs stuff has.
     
  24. Shortstack

    Shortstack Bain of the Authoritarian Follower Gold Chaser

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    The best thing to do may be to cut the coins out of their PCGS prisons. At least the Toning issue might be resolved.
     

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  25. macrohedge

    macrohedge New Member

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    Toned 24k us mint gold coins in PCGS Slab after three years (stored in PCGS box) 9/13 probability = 70%
    Toned 24k us mint gold coins in NGC Slab after 2.5 years (stored in NGC box) 1/27 probability = 4%
     
  26. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Yep...I won't buy a PCGS coins any longer (unless I get it at raw price and liberate it).
     

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