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Poll: Bitcoin Reaches $10,000 or $100 first?

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by goldielox1, Nov 11, 2017.



?

Does Bitcoin Move To $10,000 or $100 Next?

  1. $10,000

    82.4%
  2. $100

    17.6%
  1. #48Fan

    #48Fan Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Doesn't this card just basically convert btc to cash? Not near the same as TenX, I'll just have to wait, hehe.
     
  2. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I know exactly what I'm talking about. If you see any asinine comments in this thread, they're yours.

    Gold can most certainly be money by fiat. Anything can. Being decreed as money by the gov does not mean the thing can'talso have value beyond that. A bushel of wheat could be made to be money. You could spend it, or if there were no one to trade with and you were hungry, you could make something to eat out of it.
    Same with gold. If tomorrow the gov says gold is now money and 1 ounce has a fixed value of $1500. It would in fact be "by fiat".

    Fiat3.PNG



    I grasp it just fine. It is you who is having issues with words.


    So during the time of the gold standard, you honestly believe that the gov did not have a law decreeing that a certain weight of gold was a certain Dollar amount of money? You really think that huh?
    ....and you call my posts asinine?

    The Gold Standard Act of the United States was passed in 1900 (approved on March 14) and established gold as the only standard for redeeming paper money, stopping bimetallism (which had allowed silverin exchange for gold). It was signed by President William McKinley.
    The Act made the de facto gold standard in place since the Coinage Act of 1873 (whereby debt holders could demand reimbursement in whatever metal was preferred—usually gold) a de jure gold standard alongside other major European powers at the time.

    The Act fixed the value of the dollar at  25 8⁄10 grains of gold at "nine-tenths fine" (90% purity), equivalent to 23.22 grains (1.5046 grams) of pure gold.

    The Gold Standard Act confirmed the United States' commitment to the gold standard by assigning gold a specific dollar value (just over $20.67 per Troy ounce).


    So what is that if not a formal authorization, proposition or decree of the US government?
    Edited to add:...and there other laws that declared a certain amount of gold to be $5 coins, $10 coins, $20 coins, etc etc. All of that is by gov decree. Ie: the gov says it is, so it is.





    Honesty is why bitcoin is trusted. Any other system imperfect people are required to run it. People who are subject to temptation. With the blockchain, there's no cheating it. If you try to spend btc that the rest of the chain does not recognize it won't work. Ie: there can never be too many claim checks.

    Have there ever been any monetary systems that weren't eventually abused by those running it? BTC seems to have an answer to that.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  3. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    It converts bitcoin to credit dollars...cash if you pop it in an ATM. There are ATM fees if you want cash, but no fees attached to direct debit transactions.

    I've looked into the TenX thing a bit and it seems kinda crappy to me. First it supposedly requires a specific app...which sounds to me like someone else will be holding onto your bitcoins...uh no. Secondly there's a fee for every transaction...uh no. Lastly it has extensive KYC crap attached to it. Any one of those three things = a no thanks for me. ymmv.
    http://fortune.com/2017/07/24/bitcoin-visa/
     
  4. #48Fan

    #48Fan Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I believe the app is the TenX wallet. Not sure how else it could work. It can store several altcoins to spend. Sure, there is some red tape as they are staying 100% legal. There are fees for the use of all credit/debit cards but the business usually pays it and it's higher than 2%. And why would I even worry about that if the BTC on my TenX card increased 20% that day? Whenever you put BTC on the Bitpay card is justs swaps it to USD and it's price is no longer measured with the market, correct?

    ETA: I am invested in TenX because I believe in the team, vision, and product. Part of that 2% fee will go back into rewards to the user and the token holder.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  5. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    These are crazy times. I’m shaking my head at what is ahead for Bitcoin holders. Roughly 45 million people are involved with the crypto.
    Maybe 1% of the world population.
    Big money is starting to come from Asia.
    One hedge fund guy just called Bitcoin at 40,000 by the end of 2018.
    Who would be surprised with an episode of The Big Bang Theory
    hitting the airwaves.
    Currency or not this is huge.
    I’ve been buying pm’s and mining stocks since 2008. In the last year I’ve diversified into crypto and the returns have been earth shaking. I’m not selling an ounce of pm’s but it’s nice to see a good return.
    ——————-
    It’s 1994 in crypto currency
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/apaul/2017/11/27/its-1994-in-cryptocurrency/#1065f3c4b28a
     
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  6. #48Fan

    #48Fan Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Hell to the yes!
     
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  7. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    There are multiple active articles on GIM2 right now dealing with people who have been robbed by using insecure multi-wallets...they're dangerous. Please be careful.

    Yes, all credit & debit cards impose a transaction fee that is paid by everyone that uses them, the TenX card tacks an addition 2% on top of that.

    Don't forget that bitcoin also drops vs fiat. I'd treat a bitpay card the same way I treat purchases from PM vendors or gyft.com...that is to say I'd fill it when I thought bitcoin was about to correct vs fiat.

    As to 100% legal...well let's just say the so called "laws" governing cryptos are whatever any particular so called authority says they are at any given time. If you're talking to the IRS then bitcoin is property...and if you're talking to the Fed then bitcoin is "money". The rules will be changed on the fly to be whatever benefits the so called "authority" in the future.
     
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  8. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Again you don't know what money is. Gold is money whether the gov says it is or not. Please go back to Gold 101.

    Again a non-understanding of velocity of currency/money. If btc were to be used more, it would actually decrease its value through inflation (e.g. twice as many transactions per year of a fixed supply would effectively double the amount of btc in circulation. That's Econ 101.

    No the gov tied the dollar to gold. It didn't tie gold to the dollar. Gold is money. The dollar may or may not be money. If the dollar's tied to gold via government fiat, then the dollar is money. If it isn't then it is unbacked currency with (arguably) no intrinsic value other than the value of the government's promise.
     
  9. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Remember one property of money is it must be a "store of wealth". The unbacked dollar is not a store of wealth which has been proven based on the loss of 98% of its purchasing power since it lost its fettering to gold/money.
     
  10. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    If the gov issues a decree declaring it so within its jurisdiction, then in that jurisdiction it is in fact money by fiat.

    That works both ways. Within the jurisdiction, said measure of gold is also worth that particular dollar amount.

    If when under the gold standard, you dig that much gold out of the ground, you have that many dollars worth of gold. No more, no less. Ie: gov has already decreed the worth of that gold in dollars that you just dug up.

    btw, $9984 goldie. Gettin' close. Still convinced it'll hit $100 first?
     
  11. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    ...and we're there.

    Ten K.PNG
     
  12. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    giphy(4).gif
     
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  13. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Congrats to all the BTC holders. I missed the boat on this one but am happy for those who didn't. I'm still staying out of it though!
     
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  14. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    Your may need to evaluate your Econ 101 lessons.
    Obviously, you can't double the amount of Bitcoin.
    Again, one more time, Bitcoin only has 21 million pieces.
    At this time 16.7 million are in circulation. (Actually less due to loss)
    As we close in on 21 million where do you think the price will go ?
    ----------------------------
    Bitcoin 1 million is not an impossibility and yet you will still be here beating a dead horse screaming that its not a currency or something.
    beating_a_dead_horse_by_pjperez.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2017
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  15. Tecumseh

    Tecumseh Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I don't think he understood my point which probably was not very clear. My point was as it becomes easier for bitcoins to enter the "real" or "tangible" economy and chase goods and services could it eventually have an inflationary effect on ALL currencies? As you point out, bitcoin supply is essentially limited AND its increasing ease of use might make it desirable for trade as well as a store of value which might make it somewhat immune to the inflationary effects that it has on other currencies. It would be interesting to know the velocity of the average bitcoin - are they being spent or hoarded? I (maybe foolishly) spent bitcoins this year. In hindsight I wish I had hoarded them.
     
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  16. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    I think I've finally figured out @goldielox1 and @Area51 displeasure with crypto's.
    One of many who bought 10,000 Bitcoin in 2011 and then lost or threw away your paper wallet.
    Just a measly $100,000,000 down the drain.
    In 2011 on the website reddit.com, someone was trying to sell 10,000 Bitcoin for $50.
    They had no takers for a long time.
    woulda, coulda, shoulda

    Ok, @goldielox1 and @Area51 , this post was just some holiday ribbing.
    Merry Xmas to everyone.
     
  17. platinumdude

    platinumdude Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    We're $25 away from the big $10k.
     
  18. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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  19. Area51

    Area51 Silver Miner Seeker

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    There's absolutely ZERO stopping the bitcoin braintrust from altering the programming to suddenly change the "maximum" from 21 MILLION to 21 BILLION - - or any arbitrary number in between.
     
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  20. FthePolice

    FthePolice Seeker

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    Over $10,000 now
     
  21. platinumdude

    platinumdude Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Yep, $10,040.
     
  22. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    Yeah, I guess, but that would invalidate the whole premise of the Blockchain, wouldn’t it?
    Let’s just stick with “what is” instead of hypotheticals.
    Of course, we could always close our eyes, cover our ears with our hands and say over and over, “Cryptos don’t matter, Cryptos don’t matter”.
     
  23. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    A change to the bitcoin blockchain has to be accepted by a majority of bitcoin nodes or that new chain is rejected. What do you suppose would happen to the value of existing bitcoins if 51% of nodes voted to accept an increase in the bitcoin inflation rate? Uh, yeah it'd be rightly labeled as untrustworthy and the value would crater overnight. Bitcoin holders would be stupid to do that.

    People that don't know crap about how blockchain tech works and are too lazy to read anything are constantly claiming that "some unnamed entity" can just make arbitrary changes whenever they wish...it ain't so. Why do people think there are all these initiatives to alter bitcoin to lower fees if someone can just change the algorithm on a whim? The answer should be self evident...it ain't easy to change and a majority of nodes have to accept those changes for them to become the new norm.
     
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  24. Cigarlover

    Cigarlover Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    congrats to all who believed. Looks like 100k is right around the corner now.
     
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  25. Someone_else

    Someone_else Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Yes, I agree with the concerns about the the transaction cost and delay. But those who say the quantity of Btc can be manipulated... they are stupid.
     
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  26. #48Fan

    #48Fan Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I looked back into this as I was unsure. TenX takes their fee directly from the merchant fee as they are the issuer. So the card holder does not pay any extra fees to TenX. The user also earns a cash back reward per transaction.

    I get what you are saying about the wallet issue. The company itself says to only put on your card what you are going to spend. They understand the risks as well. TenX is for payments, not storage.
     
  27. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The march appears to continue. Next stop is......?

    btc3.PNG
     
  28. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Up $300+ in the past hour.

    btc3.PNG
     
  29. Area51

    Area51 Silver Miner Seeker

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    What happens when something looks way too obvious? Especially when it involves easy profits and comical returns?

    Classic bubble - - we've seen this exact same movie countless times. But some still haven't learned.
     
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  30. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    Lets see.....300 trillion of capital moving around the world looking for a high return........
    Bitcoin seems to be doing pretty good....1200% return lately.......Maybe I'll move a little that way.....
    Could see a correction down to 7000 or so.....oh well, good time to buy more...
    Next stop 20,000.
    Yee haw.........
     
  31. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    You obviously never took a basic economics class. Do a search for "velocity of money" before spouting off on the subject again.

    I never said it's not a currency. Quit listening to the drooling stooges. Or find a quote from me. It's a sub-fiat, which is indeed a type of currency.
     
  32. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    It's happened like 3 times this year alone to just bitcoin hasn't it? The infamous "crypto fork". The supply has tripled just this year, to what 63 billion now?
     
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  33. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Right out of thin air. Reminds me of the way the Fed creates money
     
  34. andial

    andial Sir Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    This is crazy why doesn't bitcoin trade flat to lower like metals?!?!?!?!?!?!? I want to buy MOAR!
     
  35. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Silver Miner Seeker

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    No definitely not a bubble.:belly laugh::



    bitbubble.jpg
    You know the bitbubble actually makes tulip investors look rational. Compare the trajectory of the bitbubble with the tulip bubble :rotf::

    1024px-Tulip_price_index1.svg.png
     
  36. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    There's still only gonna be 21m btc. The World has always had multiple currencies. Would you be happier if there were only one?
     
  37. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Sure 'bout that? The feds money is inflationary by design, while btc is deflationary by design. They sound just the opposite to me.


    btw, $11126 when I just checked.
     
  38. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    We'll alrighty then, who's cashing out?

    Greed will surely take some down with it but there's no one here with THAT mentality, right?
     
  39. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    What’s comical is how angry individuals get when other people are making a good return on their hard earned money.
     
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  40. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    It does make for some compelling drama on occasion and sometimes it's just funny watching some folks poke the Pillsbury Doughboy in the belly

    But wait:
    How can we be certain this "money", you speak of, was "hard earned"?

    LOL
    JK
    (poke)

    :beer:
     
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