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Redeeming Lawful Money

Discussion in 'Central Banking & Fed Reserve' started by David Merrill, Oct 21, 2012.



  1. anotherdave

    anotherdave Banned

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    "Individual Taxpayer Identification Number" An ITIN is a number used for tax filing purposes and is issued by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) to those individuals required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).

    So C.R.S. §42-2-107 (3)(a) comprehends SSN holders, TIN holders, and "those individuals required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA)".

    AGG, are you alleging that any of these clauses in C.R.S. §42-2-107 (3)(a) describe me as the subject? What do you rely on? Is this from personal knowledge? Where is your documentation? Objection, hearsay. Your Honor, where are the documents, and why wasn't I served?
     
  2. AGG

    AGG Seeker Seeker

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    In post 12, you stated that using private money if the federal zone/ federal reserve was the contract which created the liability for "taxpayer" Now your adding the applicatiin of a drivers liscense to that creatiin of liability for "taxpayer" and 14th amendment citizenry.

    Those are not the definitions, parameters, and characterizatiins of 14th amendment citzenry. Just before creating the 14th, they offered the act of expatriation. I've read that it was designed and implemented to give the "freed" slaves and others the opportunity to expatriate from their new 'slavery' and subjugation to u.s. congress if theyacuired or had allegience to principles and precepts that eere politucally or spiritually "foreign" to those of the U.S.

    The survey of the act of expatriation reveals the manners of expatriation from 14th amendment citizenry. It logically and reasonably follows that patriation or naturalization to u.s. federal citizenry is reciprocal to the means and elements of expatriation. That subject is/was covered in the subject to its jurisdiction thread.

    The article from barefoots world cited a court case stating that deposits if $1000 or mire into a bank account was cause for the individual to have filed a tax return and cause for an IRS investigation. BUT , thise statements pPRESUME 14amendment citizenry. The deposit amiunt is not the cause of the contract, BUT a minimum amount of personal income which may have been over the minimum filing amount for those years OR have been established as a minimum set amount if deposit which the IRS would justify an assumption of further income which may have put the 14th amendment citizen (taxpayer) over the minimum earninga level for an obligation or requirement to file.
    The context of that statement is that the person is liable for the tax to begin with, not that his activity and $1000 deposit was the cause of liability.

    I don't know your personal situation or status, so some of the subjective questions, I can't answe, nor do I alledge that mt comments apply to you.

    Cheers.
     
  3. anotherdave

    anotherdave Banned

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    Is this comment directed to me? Post #12 was made by David Merrill, and I don't see any of the points you mention. Also, my part in the "Subject to the Jurisdiction" thread basically ended at post #6, where I was unable to keep my story on track. I did answer some questions directed at me, but never resumed my point.

    I do not believe that using private money is what creates the liability for "taxpayer", though it is how the "amount owed" is assessed.
     
  4. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    "Now I demand the moving party produce pertinent documents and demand that the court follow the law." <-------THIS!

    You can't teach the judge. You'll be held in contempt if you are persistent enough. But what you CAN do declare your standing and put the burden of proof on the court to prove you are subject to its jurisdiction. If you don't declare your standing then there is a presumption upon you that you are who they claim you are. The courts will never follow the law because they operate under color of law. You have to challenge jurisdiction. It's the only way to win...rare exceptins apply but it's like trying to beat the house at poker. The court is the house. You win by simply not playing.
     
  5. anotherdave

    anotherdave Banned

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    I'm afraid that there have been so many sources of "information"; the schools, the movies and TV, the government, the press, the patriot movement, etc. that we are all confused as to our standing. We declare ourselves to be "residents", "U.S. citizens, "persons", "taxpayers", "employees", "drivers", "defendants", etc. unaware that these categories have been used to restrict and enslave us. We call ourselves "Americans", unaware that such a category doesn't actually exist unless we are numbering ourselves alongside Bolivians and Guatemalans (not necessarily a bad thing). And we call ourselves "freemen", and "sovereigns", etc. unaware that this cuts no mustard as far as citizenship and the law is concerned.

    Which all plays right into the government's hands when you are automatically assumed subject to the jurisdiction thereof and have no clue why things aren't going your way. Saying any of the magic words above is not going to get you anywhere you want to go, and you are not going to "inform" the legal establishment otherwise, no matter how hard you try.
     
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  6. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    What is amazing is you'll have folks defending the usage of the 'word art'.

    "Of course! I am a: "resident", "U.S. citizen, "person", "taxpayer", "employee", "driver" " really?

    Do you know (understand) what that means?

    stop playing.jpg
     
  7. AGG

    AGG Seeker Seeker

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    Sorry, it was post 102. I missed the 0.

    In that post you said the opposite of what you said quoted here.
    Maybe these things are why phil collins calls it a land of confusion and not much love involved.

    The love stemming from TRUTH/power is from a different source, jurusdictiin and domain though recognized and respected as foreign and 'extant' in different parts of the code and dirrerent aspects of some foundational documents.
    In Isaiah 29:21 there is a passage saying that they (either the judaizers/pharisees and or the romans) are those who indict you by a word. (such as perhaps 'employee, etc) but the spirit, soul and life of the person is declared righteous and free by the lawmaker and judge by a different rule and law; the law of faith; Rom 3:27-31; Matt 16:13-19; 1 John 3:22,23; john 6:28,29 and the law of love.

    Will get back to this later. Lits going on right now. I'll give it a chance to settle and to allow a better and more concise formulation of ideas.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2013
  8. anotherdave

    anotherdave Banned

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    Okay, I see. Account with BOA = participation in private credit system = contractual obligation = "taxpayer".

    I'll take your point that the last term is not a true equality. Taxpayer status comes from participation in the 14th Amendment "social contract", though I'd wager there are enough adhesions in the BOA contract to judge the above statement true.
     
  9. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    It says so because you have to pass a written and driving test.
     
  10. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    Several suitors who redeem lawful money have noticed that the bank converts their accounts to non-interest bearing. So that would not surprise me except that there is no benefit to the bank in opening the account. Usually they will just keep a client, not take a new one?
     
  11. MImilitia

    MImilitia Seeker Seeker

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    Never noticed this sub forum before. Tried going to the "lesson plan" but seems to be a problem...

    Looking for more ammo to fight my "driving without insurance" ticket. So just having a "drivers license" isn't prima facie evidence of myself as a commercial entity?
     
  12. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    www.savingtosuitorsclub.net should be a Enter page. It is the 'Saving to Suitors' Club. Dot net. Try this link too.

    It is if you identify yourself with the driver license. The all upper case name on it is a constructive trust.


     
  13. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    anotherdave says:



    Yes. But consider the function. The state owns the car title (Dealer sent in the MSO - Manufacturer's Statement of Origin) and is responsible for repaying all the beneficiaries of the trust (the State) after an accident. So the general assembly legislates that burden back to the driver after assigning Mandatory Insurance. The insurance companies regulate risk management by requiring competency testing - a driver license.

    If you use the driver license to identify yourself you become the new trustee responsible for settling any charges that come against the trust LAST, FIRST M.

    Remain the beneficiary - MELCHIZEDEK - outside the sacrificial services of the Bloodline covenant LEVI. The lesson plan is to become the court of record. Whatever administrative tribunal has likely got flaws. Overcome the flaws with competency.

    templestonesmogandavid.jpg


    selfbusyguy.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  14. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2013
  15. anotherdave

    anotherdave Banned

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    The first entry in my Black's Revised Fourth under License is 'Certificate or the document itself which gives permission'. There are other, further definitions, recognized by the courts.

    We can infer that the bearer would need this license, or permission in order to do something he/she ordinarly could not, i.e., driving, operating a motor vehicle for hire, transporting passengers, etc. We can also infer that the issuer has authority to qualify, inspect, test, tax, and regulate all who receive this permission. And further, we can infer that the licensee represents him/herself truthfully and is bound by the contract agreed to, along with all adhesions.
     
  16. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    Exactly!

    For one thing your name is not spelled in English in all upper case letters. So that is not your name on the driver license. For another thing, the Trustee (human) acting as trustee will be presumed so if not corrected. Look at Name again:

    Merrill_NameDefinition.jpg

    See that? How a law dictionary uses the term "name" for name. This means that in "our" words of art...

    So look at Legal name:

    Merrill_Name_legal.jpg

    The "name" given for Name is the same definition for Legal name. In both definitions we find that "name" is a compound name of the given or Christian name or names followed by the family or surname. In other words typically your name is your first and middle names only. Your family or surname is not yours, it belongs to your entire family and even to women marrying into your family.

    So this is why we know each other by first and middle names only in the brain trust. This gives us the option once competent to keep the record to refuse for cause the appointment as trustee.


    P.S. More to the topic though is the term above Name - Naked. That is the contract on the backside of your paycheck. Instead of signing a naked contract (endorsement of private credit) you might consider making your demand for lawful money and signing that instead.
     
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  17. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    You are welcome Goldhedge!

    We have a brain trust going that is superb for developing a working knowledge of remedy. However it would seem some attorney-type has become aggravated with all the full refunds of withholdings and has hijacked the http link to 'Saving to Suitors' Club.

    If http://savingtosuitorsclub.net brings up a nasty message try specifying www.savingtosuitorsclub.net in your browser or just savingtosuitorsclub.net. We are going to take care of that pretty quick but it is flattering that somebody would risk getting in trouble to leave that hack on the link address.

    I suppose you can just use a search engine too.
     
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  18. AGG

    AGG Seeker Seeker

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    Also investigate sections 26 usc 871 and 877 (I believe it is) under title 26. Akso investigate sec 1.1441of the cfr and treasury code, understanding that "u.s. source income" for non 14th amendment citizens (either repuplican state nationals or self-govorning non just war theorists) (8 USC 1101 14) is limited to federal source income.

    Investigate and search for instructions fir a "substitute" w-8 form and w-8 forms to supplant w-4s and w-9's.

    I thought (don't know for sure) that its possible to maintain an interest bearing account without jeapordizing non-liability for fed/state income tax. Somewhere I thought I read that normal interest from a bank checking/ savings(?) account are not taxable to a foreign person according to 1.1441. That wording may have been in the instructions for the w-8 though.
     
  19. AGG

    AGG Seeker Seeker

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    I saw that some points were covered in the "not for hire" thread http://www.goldismoney2.com/showthread.php?50611-NOT-FOR-HIRE-USCode&highlight=not+for+hire in the general forum a few weeks ago.

    Here are some points which I am hypothecusing abiut.

    The "social contract" came about in the 30's or 40's while the 14th amendment U.S. citizenry was 1860's
    Thus although S.S. may have been designed for 14th amend 'citizens' or to attempt to entice, include or assymilate all or most into U.S. federal obligation;, involuntary, unknowing of the 'nature' of the attatchment is not the "nature" or source of the luability for that cituzenry or taxation though they may try to make that connectiin

    "They" make a distinctiin between the words "driver, operater, etc and just a 'traveðer or transporter of ones own goods.. It is possible that when one begins to transport for hire (driver and thus "drivers liscence") that they cinsider the vehicle to be as a "ship"; thus carrying a "shipment" and thus invoking maritime, internatiinal, and commercial/federal law upon the party through the federal agencies contol of interstate and international//maarine commerce as "granted" or assumed to be granted by the will and power of the people of the states at the signing of the U.S federal constitution by the "state" representatives.

    If one is niot a U.S. 14th amendment person, then perhap the commercial/marine/international laws only apply for interstate transpot or perhaps not at all if he/they are not party to all the ideas of the dec of independance and the formation of the states.

    Many of the regs and safety codes seem positive in spirit and nature, but perhaps not all aspects of thm or their enforcement by force/punishment to all peoples.

    Offered for contemplation.
    Perhaps more later
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2013
  20. AGG

    AGG Seeker Seeker

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    Can you speculate as to why the provisiins for this remedy were included or made? Were tgey admitting that the spirit and intent of the foundations of the states and govt were not dejure/ of God or divine but perhaps humanistic and capitalistically motivated and played on some faulty interpretation/understandings and goals of the people?
     
  21. anotherdave

    anotherdave Banned

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    Name any "duty" to the feds, and I'll show you where it comes from, chapter and verse, in the 14th Amendment. Can you show any other basis for a social contract?

    These terms would indicate commercial activity, a burden on the public commons. The compact state always had jurisdiction over commerce, and the Feds gained jurisdiction as well via the commerce clause. The confusion between compact state and fed state is a bonus for the regulators. They'll reel in everything they can get thru their broad interpretation of statutes.

    Notice how they assume that you are the subject? Notice how you were schooled all your life to think that you ARE the subject? Notice how they've set things up so that you plead into the jurisdiction during the FIRST STEP of any encounter? That's where they're vulnerable because THEY have to prove jurisdiction, not you. But you have to understand that THIS is the game, and you'll have to force them to play it.

    Once past STEP ONE, it's their stadium. Go ahead and argue terms, it makes for a good show. Then you lose.
     
  22. AGG

    AGG Seeker Seeker

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    In 8 USC 1101 (15, G, i) i believe it is, describes a person who is part of an international association of american states. If you follow the links to the section presented (22 Usc 288 and in a differet title) it indicates to me tha ta 'citizen' of a pre-civilal war republican state/nation is only obligated to participation in S.S.A. if he becomes a official in the U.S. govt or serves in the military during a foreign war. This evidence, along with the evidence of the characteristics in the survey of the act of expatriation (thus indicating the means of naturalizatiin and patristion, as well as acknowledging a) that SSA was originally referred to as old age and SURVIVORS benefits with "survivors" indicative of being a war advocate and 'survivor' and (b) the instructiins of Jesus to the pharusees who asjed him about rendering to ceasar made a Strong Differentiation between those who followed the king of life and the earth (Jesus) and those who woukd in a few short days proclaim their allegiebce to ceasar.

    One if the differences between rome and Jesus' jurisdiction and kingdom wss the issue of the respect for the divinity of all life and abstsinance from war/killing. Those who held Jesus as king did not pay tribute to "foreign" warring kingdoms ir kings; either to ending mosaic covt judaizm and the rabbi's NOR to rome and ceasar.

    Thus the differentiating issue and point seems to remain.
    Read the 14th again. born in the U.S. can only mean born in an area subject to IT'S exclusive jurisdiction of Art 1, sect 8, clause 17. 'Naturalized' to its jurisdiction can be through oath of allegience ( voter registratiin or formal oath of allegience to support the U.S. govt including its military and other principles and ideologies) or military conscription (voluntarily and without coerciin or trickery. These are opposite the means of expatriation from 14th amendmendt allegience to U.S. citizenry.

    So one must be birn or naturalized AND be 'subject'to it's jurisdiction. And I think the 'born' part is only in effect due to the supposed will of the people (and thus the power of the people.; see pennsylvanias constututiins beginning articles and admissiins) granting 'exclusive' jurisduction to congress over D.C. and territories.
    If one is re-born of the self govorning king of the earth,and has not been falsely indoctrinated through a misinterpretation / misapplication of rom 13 to be "subject to humanist govts as "highrr powers" then the may not be among those who consent to uniquivocably and totally govorned and thus their imposed allegience, servitude, and citizenry/participation by birtplace within an area of exclusive federal jurisdiction could also be in question.

    The reciprocal is also imposed; that a person "naturalized" through said means, AND subject is considered a fedeeal citizen/ U.S. person wherever they may live AND secondarily a subject/citizen of the secondary federal state where they reside. They cannot question the federal debt.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2013
  23. anotherdave

    anotherdave Banned

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    Can you please take just one thought and work it through? Do you want to discuss redeeming lawful money, or the social contract, or the commerce clause, or Social Security, or aliens and nationality, or Mosaic law, or what?
     
  24. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    I've done a little research and have learned that there is no law requiring anyone to obtain a social security number.


    It's 'voluntary', which is why they say the income taxes in the US are 'voluntary'.

    Same as a marriage license, but I digress...



    If anyone can produce the 'law' that stipulates one must obtain an SSN, I'd appreciate it.




    To my way of thinking, the SSN is voluntary, therefore the requirement to present it to obtain a driver's license means obtaining a driver's license is also 'voluntary'.




    AMENDMENT XIV

    SECTION 1.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.​
     
  25. anotherdave

    anotherdave Banned

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    You are not required to contract for Social Security any more than you are required to sign up for Readers Digest. But they do have a damn good sales promotion, no?

    Anyway, do you see how your attention is directed to the Social Security number? The number! The number! That's what you are given to obsess upon. Use it to identify yourself for everything!

    But what about the Social Security ACCOUNT? What about the Social Security CONTRACT? Do you have any idea what it is? Have you read the terms of the contract, or do you just blindly accept it as part of "doing business"?

    Most people really don't care. It's boring.
     
  26. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    I was killing time down at the library so I grabbed AmJur 2d on Social Security Administration and read into it for over an hour.
     
  27. anotherdave

    anotherdave Banned

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    SS Administration could be studied, I guess, forever. But the act itself is pretty straightforward -- three parts, less than three pages long. One that gives away free goodies, one that taxes participants, and one that sets up a pool funded by Congress, NOT by the taxes portion of the Act.

    In fact, the three parts are independent, and have no relation to each other; i.e., just because someone signs up to pay SS taxes does NOT qualify them for SS goodies, just because someone gets SS goodies does not indicate that they have paid the taxes. And the "trust fund" is NOT directly paid by SS taxes. Small details you've been taught to overlook.
     
  28. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    I am all about defeating conditioning. Thank you.
     
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  29. Billboard

    Billboard Seeker Seeker

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    http://iseekliberty.blogspot.com/2014/01/notice-declaration-and-demand-to-cease.html

     
  30. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    How does one get a job with out a SSN!


    Employers say "it's the law" you have to fill out a W2 form...
     
  31. minimus

    minimus Banned

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    Be really good at what you do, some of my "employers" call me and we strike a deal (a private contract) and I uphold my end of the bargain and the other party (employer?) writes me a check ... and I don't fill out a government tax form.
     
  32. anotherdave

    anotherdave Banned

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    I had it explained to me by a lawyer from one of those agencies that records these transactions: "We have two types of persons that we deal with; employers, and employees. if you are not one of those, you will have to go somewhere else."

    I've made it a point not to be one of either, ever since.
     
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  33. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Worthy of a bump to the top...............
     
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  34. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    I have enjoyed how the stamp alone has replaced my signature:

    Click here.
     
  35. David Merrill

    David Merrill Seeker Seeker

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    This suitor was awaiting his first full redeeming year refund, expecting $12K. When he entered this judgment he got a letter about 2011 saying that he owed $18K which was somewhat accurate. The IRS attorney forgave the $18K and sent $2K and now they are squared away.

    That is to say, redeeming lawful money has earned back $20K complete with redemption and complete forgiveness, including any interest and penalties for the delay.
     
  36. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    lol I like the not so subtle threats tossed in there for good measure.
     
  37. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    What is lawful money? How is it different from legal tender?
    "Lawful money" is a term used in the Federal Reserve Act, the act that authorizes the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System to issue Federal Reserve notes. The Act states that Federal Reserve notes "shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank." The Act did not, however, define the term "lawful money," but up until 1913, the only currency issued by the United States that was legally recognized as "lawful money" was various issues of "demand notes" (subsequently known as "old demand notes") and "United States notes" authorized by Congress during the Civil War.

    At the time, some currency was not considered legal tender, although it could be used by national banking associations as "lawful money reserves." Thus, the term "lawful money" had a broader meaning than the term "legal tender."

    In 1933, Congress changed the law so that all U.S. coins and currency (including Federal Reserve notes), regardless of when issued, constitutes "legal tender" for all purposes. Federal and state courts since then have repeatedly held that Federal Reserve notes are also "lawful money." Milam v. U.S., 524 F.2d 629 (9th Cir. 1974), is typical of the federal and state court cases holding that Federal Reserve notes are "lawful money." In Milam, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit reviewed a judgment denying relief to an individual who sought to redeem a $50 Federal Reserve Bank Note in "lawful money." The United States tendered Milam $50 in Federal Reserve notes, but Milam refused the notes, asserting that "lawful money" must be gold or silver. The Ninth Circuit, noting that this matter had been put to rest by the U.S. Supreme Court nearly a century before in the Legal Tender Cases (Juilliard v. Greenman), 110 U.S. 421 (1884), rejected this assertion as frivolous and affirmed the judgment.


    https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/currency_15197.htm

    Government says lawful money is frns.
     
  38. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Not sure I trust the (not)federal reserve to tell me about lawful anything. I have often wondered about FRNs that claim they're redeemable for dollars.
     
  39. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    I was under the impression that the only lawful money was coins from the mint and US notes, I'm not sure where I got that from.

    I thought frns were credit for US coins.
     
  40. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Lawful Money
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    DEFINITION of 'Lawful Money'
    Any form of currency issued by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System, including gold and silver coins, Treasury notes, and Treasury bonds. Lawful money stands in contrast to fiat money, to which the government assigns value although it has no intrinsic value of its own and is not backed by reserves. Fiat money includes legal tender such as paper money, checks, drafts and bank notes.

    Also known as "specie", which means "in actual form."



    Read more: Lawful Money Definition | Investopedia http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lawfulmoney.asp#ixzz46ncua6US
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    This contradicts my post about lawful money from the federal reserve.
     
    Hystckndle, solarion and Bigjon like this.

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