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Reflection on The Fate of Empires by Sir John Glubb

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by Scorpio, Mar 10, 2017.



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What phase could we classify the US Empire in (if it is a empire)

  1. Phase 1 -- Pioneers

    0 vote(s)
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  2. Phase 2 -- Conquest

    0 vote(s)
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  3. Phase 3 -- Commerce

    0 vote(s)
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  4. Phase 4 -- Affluence

    12.5%
  5. Phase 5 -- Intellectualism

    0 vote(s)
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  6. Phase 6 -- Decadence

    87.5%
  1. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Reflection on The Fate of Empires by Sir John Glubb

    September 18, 2013 at 3:50 am (Economics, Educational, Foundational, History)


    The Fate of Empires

    This is one of those documents that once again motivates me to continue to learn. The new set of eyes that learning creates brings a sense of peace about the world. There is less uncertainty which means there is less fear. Just as there was comfort in knowing that present time is just an instance in the endless cycle of empires, there was extreme anger about the institutions that we entrust to educate ourselves. I know they are not perfect. But forcing me to learn and memorize the names and views of senate electoral candidates of Virginia of 1865, does not compare to learning the life cycle of empires. Honestly there is no contest as to what is more relevant to someone’s life. This, and other works like Guns, Germs, and Steel, show the importance of knowing history, and also shows the failures of what is being taught. There is a same phenomena with science classes. They focus on the concepts and mathematics of it all, but do not discuss how the scientific method is presented in various experiments. What was the intrinsic error of the experiment? What questions are answered with this experiment, and what questions remain? To me, it is more important to learn the why’s and how’s of history rather than the what’s.

    The Fate of Empires is a brief essay laying out the life cycle of an empire. An empire is defined as a super power of their time. He brings examples ranging from Persia, Ancient China, to the Ottoman Empire. In fact, all of his evidence is from eras other than our own era, which makes sense when writing something like this. This read is a basic read, and should be taught to everyone.

    The average lifespan of an empire is 250 years. The life cycle of an empire is broken down into six ages. They are:

    1. The Age of Pioneers
    2. The Age of Conquest
    3. The Age of Commerce
    4. The Age of Affluence
    5. The Age of Intellectualism
    6. The Age of Decadence
    The age of pioneers are the initial surge for a certain country. In most cases this is done through military means over a bigger civilization. The main theory as to why this is, is the pioneers envy the life and riches of the great empire that they hope to overthrow. They are tired of living their lives, which maybe in oppression by the empire. So, they surge with courage and dedication to change their lives for the better.

    Once a nation state is established, the age of conquest takes fruit. The conquest is to expand their territory to obtain more resources and power. Once an adequate amount of territories are under control, the age transitions to the age of commerce. The main purpose of this era is to create more wealth. The acquisition of wealth usually takes precedence over everything else. This is the period of time when values start shifting from the self-sacrifice of the initial pioneers to self-interests. The age of affluence is next. The rich become more and more separated from the poor, as more wealth is flaunted for people to see. People enjoy high standards of living, and more and more people are consuming things in excess rather than what they need. The age of intellectualism is next. With the necessities of life no worrisome to a good number of people, the next frontier man attempts to explore is that of mother nature. Civilizations make advancements in science, philosophy, the arts, and literature just to name a few. The production of universities and schools drastically increase, and the knowledge is more tailored towards specialized knowledge rather than a breadth of knowledge from various subjects. Finally, where most of the essay is tailored towards, is the age of decadence.

    The age of decadence is the decay of the empire. It is characterized by defensive minded militaries, decaying morals, lost of religion, frivolous consumption of food, entertainment, sex, and the complete focus of individual interests. When things tend to get rough, it would be thought that the people would work together to fix the problems, but instead there are schisms in the society that make the resolution of dire problems impossible. With everyone thinking about themselves, they lack the self-sacrifice and courage needed to defend themselves from collapse internally or from the next age of pioneers.

    It is pretty obvious that The United States, the world’s super power, is in the last and final stage, the age of decadence. When just looking at our practices, it becomes clear that our morals have completely collapsed due to actions of various corporations for their increase in profits. When debating politics, people constantly look at how their interests are affected rather than taking into account the needs of other people. Sex is the main theme or method of selling products or services, and there are strip clubs and porn sites. We consume frivolously on drugs, food (obesity), sex, and entertainment. We worship celebrities rather than a God or religion. This all points to a society that is on a verge of collapse. The United States is scheduled to collapse at around 2030. The 10 generation time scale is an average, so it is not exact.

    So why is it, that this cycle exists? Why is it the same cycle that occurs so frequently in history? I honestly think it is the corruption and love of money that totally destroys the sustainability of a society. The acquisition of wealth tailors people to get more, and to only think for themselves. When individual interests are the priority, nothing gets resolved. Governments become corrupt, so they accrue more wealth and power. When the time comes of the new pioneers, they are unable to act. I also think the self-interests that is created through money distances man from nature. This separation from nature is literally a contamination that eats away at the required reasoning, morals, and feelings of complete sustainability. People that are closer to nature are more prone to survival, and are closer to the habitat that we were evolved to be apart of. Concepts and philosophies of self-sacrifice, and sustainability are needed to survive. With survival, we are more prone to follow the path at finding who we are, the essence of man, compared to being isolated in cities gorging ourselves with food, drugs, sex, and entertainment.

    The flow system of currency is just like any flow system, and a characteristic of a flow system is that it is hierarchical in nature. That means, whenever there is currency, there are going to be segments that are wide and thick (lots of money), which in turn gets drained by smaller tributaries to facilitate more flow. This is why there is always a class system with any society. And that is always going to be there if currency is involved with any economy. And considering that I think money is the key factor to this cycle of empire life, I think the removal of money should seriously be considered when constructing a new society.

    And, as I have stated throughout this blog, I think a good concept that solves this problem is The Resource Based Economy. Therefore, a Resource Based Economy would create a new cycle or progression of ages throughout its life cycle.

    I really hope people start reading on their own, and educate themselves further than the bullshit schools of our day. Our educational system is a failure. I’ve read way more relevant and thought provoking works on my own than in any classroom. I would skip history in high school to read Guns, Germs, and Steel, which should be a central work when evaluating the history of the Earth. But in the end, I am at ease of all the failures of our society. It was predetermined when we decided to use a currency with our economy. And, as usual, a new set of pioneers will take hold and will most likely enact a currency to handle the scarcity of goods and services, which will make the cycle continue.

    “The love of money is the root of all evil.” — The Bible

    https://jotmonline.com/tag/life-cycle-of-an-empire/
     
  2. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    The age of decadence is the decay of the empire. It is characterized by defensive minded militaries, decaying morals, lost of religion, frivolous consumption of food, entertainment, sex, and the complete focus of individual interests.

    ????


    dec·a·dence
    ˈdekədəns/
    noun
    noun: decadence
    moral or cultural decline as characterized by excessive indulgence in pleasure or luxury.
    "he denounced Western decadence"


    Decadence - Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decadence
    The word decadence, which at first meant simply "decline" in an abstract sense, is now most often used to refer to a perceived decay in standards, morals, dignity, religious faith, or skill at governing among the members of the elite of a very large social structure, such as an empire or nation state.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
  3. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    How the decadence and depravity of London's 18th century elite was fuelled by hot chocolate
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    11 March 2017 • 7:00am

    One midsummer’s day in 1750, a man had a seizure in front of the main gate to St James’s Palace and collapsed onto the pavement. Some passers-by promptly carried him into the nearest building which, unluckily for him, turned out to be White’s Chocolate House. For inside, through thick plumes of perfume, smoke, and chocolate steam, the rakish company of dukes, earls and lords showed scant concern for the man’s wellbeing. Instead, as Horace Walpole, who found the whole thing thoroughly entertaining, reported, they ‘immediately made bets whether he was dead or not.’ When some customers rushed to his assistance, ‘the wagerers for his death interposed, and said it would affect the fairness of the bet.’ The man died shortly afterwards. It was just an average day at White’s, ‘the most fashionable hell in London’, a hotbed of decadence, depravity, and destruction powered by a thick, luxuriant and exotically spiced glop called chocolate.

    The first official shipment of cacao beans arrived in Europe from the New World in 1585 and by the early 17th century, it was all the rage in the palaces, mansions and monasteries of Baroque Europe, a mark of exquisite gentility. As the drink spread through the continent it became ever-more refined, being drunk hot, sweet, and mixed with cinnamon. Surviving recipes give us cause to lament the powdery, watery froth that passes for hot chocolate in so many of London’s cafés and restaurants today. The Third Duke of Tuscany, the gluttonous tyrant Cosimo de’ Medici, liked to take his chocolate infused with fresh jasmine flowers, amber, musk, vanilla and ambergris. No wonder chocolate was described in 1797 as ‘the drink of the gods’.


    The impetus for London’s chocolate craze seems to have come from an unlikely quarter: France. In 1657, various newspapers were reporting that the public could sample, buy or learn how to make an ‘excellent West India drink’ called chocolate from a Frenchman, ‘the first man who did sell it in England’ at a chocolate house tucked away in Queen’s Head Alley in Bishopsgate Street, in the east of London’s business district.


    For a city with little tradition of hot drinks (coffee had only arrived five years earlier), chocolate was an alien, suspect substance drunk associated with popery and idleness (i.e. France and Spain); a market had to be generated. Within the next decade, a slew of pamphlets appeared proclaiming the miraculous, panacean qualities of the new drink, which would boost fertility, cure consumption, alleviate indigestion and reverse ageing: a mere lick, it was said, would ‘make old women young and fresh, create new motions of the flesh’. For Samuel Pepys, chocolate was the perfect cure for a hangover, relieving his ‘sad head’ and ‘imbecilic stomach’ the day after Charles II’s bacchanalian coronation. The commonest claim, however — one inherited from the Aztecs and still perpetuated by chocolate companies the world over today — was that chocolate was a supremely powerful aphrodisiac.

    The public was sold on this mendacious publicity campaign. Unlike in Paris and Madrid, chocolate drinking was not confined to the social elite; it was available in many of London’s coffeehouses (albeit in a more rough-and-ready and milky form than Cosimo’s brew) but since it was more expensive, and less of a caffeine hit, it was never drunk as widely. It was only around St James’s Square that a cluster of super-elite self-styled ‘chocolate houses’ sprouted and flourished.


    Envisaged by Henry Jermyn in 1661, St James’s Square was a self-contained aristocratic estate of ‘great and good houses’ for nobles and gentry within spitting distance of Charles II’s favourite London palace and replete with its own Christopher Wren church. The physical fabric of the area was revolutionary. It was an urban El Dorado of wide, paved streets (up to 60 feet wide in places, trouncing the Paris average of 30), a constellation of street lamps encased in crystal globes, fleets of sedan chairs, and a central terraced square of fine neoclassical townhouses fronting onto a communal garden renowned for its firework displays and perfumed sheep. Harvested in appalling conditions by African slaves in Jamaica, chocolate was thus consumed in one of the most exclusive addresses in Europe by the crème de la crème of British society, cementing chocolate’s association with decadence and luxury in the popular imagination.

    The principal chocolate houses were Ozinda’s and White’s, both on St James’s Street, and the Cocoa Tree on Pall Mall. As befitted their location their interiors were a cut above the wooden, workmanlike interiors of the City coffeehouses, boasting Queen Anne sofas, polished tables, dandyish waiters and, at least in Ozinda’s case, a collection of valuable paintings for the customers to admire.

    The Cocoa Tree was the informal headquarters of the Tory party, where policy and parliamentary strategy were concerted over chocolate and newspapers
    It can’t have been nice for George I, the new Hanoverian King, to know that mere yards from the entrance to his palace, crypto-Jacobites were huddled together, sipping chocolate, and plotting his downfall. At the height of the Jacobite Rebellion in 1715, the king’s messengers burst into a packed Ozinda’s and dragged away its proprietor along with some of his customers as Jacobite traitors and incarcerated them in Newgate. Ostensibly the Cocoa Tree was more respectable — in the early 18th century, it was the informal headquarters of the Tory party where policy and parliamentary strategy were concerted over chocolate and newspapers. Yet a significant wing of the party were crypto-Jacobites and it’s no surprise to read in the Manchester Guardian of 1932 that workmen drilling into St James’s Street discovered a secret underground passage (or ‘bolt hole’) leading from the site of the Cocoa Tree to a tavern in Piccadilly for Jacobites to flee to safety.


    For what we might term ‘kamikaze gambling’, though, nothing compared to White’s Chocolate House and few London venues can have had such opprobrium heaped upon them by satirists and moralists. ‘Hell’, the inner gaming room at White’s, is depicted in the sixth episode of Hogarth’s Rake’s Progress (pictured top) in all its debauched glory (fittingly, it is also on fire, though few customers seem to notice or care). It is a picture of greed and despair; the posture of the ruined rake, hands held high as though for divine intercession, seems oddly prescient of Gericault’s Raft of Medusa except in White’s, everyone is an author of their own destruction rather than cast adrift on the mercy of nature.

    The legendary White’s betting book, an archive of wagers placed between 1743 to 1878, by which point the chocolate house had evolved into a club, lends credence to Hogarth’s attacks. Much of the time, it reads like a litany of morbid and bizarre predictions: ‘Mr Howard bets Colonel Cooke six guineas that six members of White’s Club die between this day of July 1818 and this day of 1819’, reads one typical entry (Colonel Cooke won). Elsewhere there are bets on which celebrities will outlive others; the length of pregnancies; the outcomes of battles; the madness of George III; the future price of stock; and whether a politician will turn up to the Commons in a red gown or not.


    Yet middle-class moralists such as Hogarth were looking in on a world they didn’t understand and from which they were excluded. Just as Henry Jermyn’s St James’s Square was laid out in competition with the Earl of Southampton’s Bloomsbury Square, for the beau monde living in such close quarters, life was one big game of conspicuous consumption. To place the modern-day equivalent of £180,000 on the roll of a single die, as happened at the Cocoa Tree in 1780, may strike us as downright nihilistic today but for the Georgian nobility it was a brilliant way of projecting their status, giving every meaning to their frequently idle, chocolate-guzzling existence.

    White’s still exists today as a super-exclusive private members’ club at 37 St James’s Street with 500 members and a nine-year waiting list; the only woman ever to have visited is a certain Elizabeth Windsor in 1991. Yet it's lost its association with chocolate and indeed in London as a whole, traditional chocolate houses for “drinking chocolate, betting and reading the newspapers”, as one American visitor to eighteenth-century London put it, are few and far between.

    Dr Matthew Green is the co-founder of Unreal City Audio which produces historical tours of London as live events.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/d...urprising-history-of-london-chocolate-houses/
     
  4. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    990x612-pluto-cycle.jpg SJ Glubb_Fate of Empires.png Empires-Rise-Fall-Armstrong.jpg
     
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  5. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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  6. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Don't forget fellow gim'ers, this is a poll where you can vote which phase you may thing the US is currently residing in,
     
  7. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    for my opinion, whether 5 or 6 stages of empire,

    I do not believe we are in decadence or decline and legacy.

    We are in the later stages of affluence, intellectualism or over extension.

    Not sure that we can really appreciate decadence/decline/legacy for what it really is, having never lived thru it.

    Those days are ahead IMO.

    although true enough, history is best viewed in the rear view mirror.
     
  8. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    from BB's link:

    Overextension: The Fourth Stage of Empire

    Overextension signifies the onset of gradual decline, beginning at levels apparent only to the most astute observers and ending in financial disasters and military challenges.

    At some point an empire’s success induces complacency, arrogance, corruption and other manifestations of decay, as the comforts of civilised society give rise to expectations by the middle classes that the status quo will be maintained. The transformation of an empire from ‘barbarian’ to ‘civilised’ is now complete, and over time it will become ripe for domination by another aspirant. In the early stages of overextension, the cost to the economy of running an empire is no longer compensated for by revenue. The empire then begins to increase its debt burden, preventing a rise in military expenditure precisely at a time when it is most threatened by new challenges.

    The Roman and British Empires each displayed such signs of overextension before declining. As I have posited, the most likely challenge to an established civilisation is always posed by a power that the decaying empire perceives as ‘barbarian’: one that is riding a growth curve with less to lose and more to gain from open conflict, able to act with greater aggression and fewer inhibitions to achieve its goals. For Rome, the Goths embodied this role; for Britain, it was the US. The ‘barbarian’ presumption, of course, conveniently masks the reality that the challenger is more developed than the declining power’s complacency allows it to discern. The current US perception of both the Islamic world and the People’s Republic of China exactly fits this model.

    World War Two provides a compelling instance of the problems facing a civilised society fighting a ‘barbarian’ empire. By the time the Allied forces had left Normandy’s beaches and begun the battle for Germany, it had become clear to the Allied generals that they faced problems in motivating and leading a democratic army that placed a high value on individual life. There were critical delays in the prosecution of the land war against Germany as a result. The Russian Red Army, in sharp contrast, was truly barbaric in its advance on Berlin. From the turning point of the Battle of Stalingrad, Russia pushed on relentlessly, despite incurring massive casualties on both sides, right up to the fall of the German capital. Had the Russian army not tom the guts out of the Wermacht on the Eastern Front, it is doubtful that the US and Britain could have invaded Europe in 1944; global sea dominance and supreme air power could not by themselves have forced Germany to surrender its continental empire. Of course, the advent of the nuclear bomb would in any case have compelled Germany’s capitulation, as it did Japan’s. Yet there is a certain irony that, without one ruthless atheist totalitarian empire to counter the other, the outcome of the war might have been very different for the democratic powers.

    It is certainly difficult to motivate an overextended empire to fight when its people have a high standard of living. Since 1945, the US has become increasingly reliant on its technology to ensure that American wartime casualty rates remain low. However, in wars such as those in Iraq and Afghanistan, where there is no alternative to soldiers on the ground, considerable public outcry over fatalities occurs.

    Wars are expensive, more so as technology bleeds from the hegemon to the challengers, making it very costly to maintain the military edge. In the overextension stage, a dominant empire will not reduce social or defence commitments, nor increase taxation. It moves rather into financial deficit, which saps its strength. Financial-market peaks take place past the pinnacle of the empire cycle, as the system finds ways to increase spending by raising debt. During these periods, there is always talk of reducing costs, but doing so proves consistently unsuccessful. The demise of the USSR as an empire was hastened by military spending against a backdrop of declining revenue.

    [​IMG]

    One way in which an empire can attempt to reduce defence costs is by building new alliances to spread the load - although doing so only delays the inevitable at best. However, it is worth noting that, when an empire overextends and then goes into decline, it is forced to scale back its influence in terms of both military presence and financial holdings. This spells the beginning of its end. (The rally of the US dollar in Autumn 2008 is a perfect example of this process; the fact that the US was forced to repatriate its wealth in order to support its collapsing core signified that its empire is now firmly in decline. The next stage will be the substitution of the dollar as the global currency by a challenger, which is likely to be the yuan - probably in as little as a decade.)

    The social integration that began during the (preceding) maturity stage with the demand for full rights by disenfranchised citizens now progresses rapidly during the overextension stage. The composition of society by the end of this penultimate phase of the empire cycle will have dramatically altered. Formerly low-status classes can now gain entry to the empire’s power core. The barbarian auxiliaries drafted into the Roman legions, for example, gained leverage and ultimately control over Rome. The British Empire’s reliance on its colonies in both world wars helped to accelerate its break-up after World War Two as they demanded independence.

    In the US, black Americans experienced a transition from slavery in the regionalisation stage to underclass in maturity. Black soldiers have served in US wars since the American Revolution, but, following the Vietnam War - in which they fought in greater numbers and in greater capacity than ever before - they pressed for validation as the civil rights movement intensified, and entered the middle and power classes.

    This increasing degree of social integration is perhaps most effectively symbolised by the 2008 election of the first black US president. (Figure 8 summarises these and other social changes within the Five Stage Empire Model.)

    As the former underclass rises, a new wave of people from poorer nations fills the roles they have left behind. This process began in the last decade-plus in the US, with hundreds of thousands of mainly Mexican immigrants seeking new lives in the apparently (and certainly relatively) prosperous US, prepared to work on any terms.

    The problem of manning the armed forces continues, and the social makeup of the military continues to evolve as a result. The core of the problem lies in the fact that society now has a greater proportion of older citizens than younger ones. As a result, its decision-makers become more conservative and less adaptive in solving the growing challenges of the empire’s decline.

    [​IMG]

    Decline and Legacy: The Fifth Stage of Empire

    For an empire in the final throes of overextension, the cost of power vastly outweighs its economic benefit. Imperial sustainability becomes increasingly unfeasible, and the system rapidly begins to disintegrate. Although the signs would have been present during the overextension stage, other great powers would, for the most part, not have begun to recognise the waning empire’s vulnerability until the final stage of decline and legacy, when external and internal dynamics deteriorate at an alarming rate. Enemies on the periphery then awaken to the progressive ebbing of vitality, and become emboldened by incremental successes that can soon escalate. The old empire is now prey for other regional powers in the ascendant. The rate of decline surprises the world as a formerly iconic empire collapses.

    The stage of decline and legacy can be described as the evolution of multi¬-polarity. The uni-polar world dilutes as the hegemon grows feebler, and challenging nations grow stronger and begin to exert a newfound influence. Characteristic of this stage is the empire’s collective denial that it is declining, expressed by the body politic and by the people themselves, who ask, ‘How can that which we have built up to be so splendid, so powerful, and which appeared so invincible, simply be erased?’

    The illusion of the status quo, clung to during the overextension stage, now shatters. Often the catalyst is a key event, like the attacks on the US of 11 September 2001. The response by the leadership is to attempt to more deeply embody the perceived ‘original’ values of the empire. When their actions fail, a path is opened to new leadership, reflecting the new social order - and often the descendants of the former underclass, now risen, come to power. This process can appear as though hope has been renewed; yet it is, in effect, the beginning of the end of the empire. The election of Barack Obama, widely hailed by Americans and others around the globe as heralding a new age, may nevertheless be seen as conforming precisely to this model. Nor is it without precedent: near the end of the Western Roman Empire’s decline, the Germanic chieftain Odoacer (believed to be a Goth) became emperor - although he acknowledged allegiance to the deposed and permanently exiled emperor Julius Nepos. (The Visigoths and Vandals had sacked Rome long before, however, and many historians consider Odoacer’s reign as marking the Western Empire’s end.)

    [​IMG]

    The final phase of this fifth and ultimate stage of empire is legacy. This endures to some degree after all empires have declined, but is best observed in the case of an empire that has had a rapid military ascension, driven by a strong leader who dies without a clear line of succession or sustainable administrative system (a recurring theme throughout history - the Macedonian and Mongol Empires have it in common, as does the first Islamic caliphate). Fragmentation usually precedes the decline of an empire of this sort, but very often a collective value system - its legacy - persists in the region in which it was formerly active, suffusing its smaller units and remaining until they are, in turn, subsumed by the next invading empire.

    The advent of nuclear weapons and the accompanying threat of Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) may well have altered the dynamics of decline, as borne out by the Cold War. Whereas in the past, empires in decline and legacy were often swallowed up, those wielding the nuclear advantage have the privilege of being protected by it as they re-form into their next incarnations. Europe has certainly benefited from this new model, as the US will, particularly as its missile shield defence system is developed further.

    Europe is an example of a region in legacy. Following the collapse of its empires post-World War Two, it has gradually been rebuilding itself into the European Union (EU). The reconstitution is not without pain, as national identities are subsumed into a greater collective. Given enough time, accompanied by the considerable demographic expansion required to propel it out of regionalisation and into empire, a fully integrated EU could see Europe become an essential force in the world once more. (Should this scenario yet materialise, however, it would do so only far in the future.)

    Wars are the clocks of empires. Once this simple truth is acknowledged, history can be unravelled, and lessons from the past placed into this context can directly inform both the present and the future. The Five Stages of Empire is an instructive model for today’s multi-polar world.
     
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  9. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    A good example of this can be found below. The empire finances discovery & innovation to the benefit of its allies & foes alike, who essentially will exploit the new tech & knowledge at little to no cost to themselves.

    Storing one bit in one atom is possible: The extraordinary end of Moore's law

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170309120521.htm
     
  10. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    If you dont believe the empire has now entered the state of collapse watch this short rant by a Millenial against the "rigged" system.

     
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  11. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    I put us upslope a bit in the US for a few reasons,

    chiefly, that I am not versed enough in 'empires' to make a true informed opinion on it. Going by gut.

    First, what makes an empire? Supposedly, the avg age of empires has been somewhere around 256 yrs. When do they start and when do they in fact end?

    Prior to this claim of the US being a 'empire', most empires it seems were mainly thru conquest. If the US is even an empire, it would be the first that wasn't based on overall conquests, but on a 'agreed' monetary basis. Kinda novel if you think about it.

    When can you state the US entered empire status? Was it the end of the civil war? Was it the end of 1812 war? Or was it the end of WW1 or 2?

    In order to claim it is an empire, we need a start date.

    If we said it was the civil war in 1865, and the age of conquest was WW1 and 2, with the failed attempts at Vietnam and of course the Gulf, then what?

    256 + 1865 = 2121. It is only year date 2017. Meaning if the US is a empire, then it should have a easy 100 years to run yet.

    I know we can look around and see symptoms of decadence and so on around, but is it really what is meant in the decline/collapse phase?

    Have empires become shorter and shorter over time with tech progression, resulting in a shorter lifespan for any 'empire'?

    If so, then is the US actually in a state of decline, as far as empires go?

    How about defining the power and reach of empires. Does the US have these features that would get it to empire status?

    Sure there is a military, but so does Russia and China. One could argue with our bases spread around the world that we are indeed some type of empire.

    Couple this with the monetary scheme in place, with the US dollar as reserve currency, and the argument can again be made that yes it is indeed a empire.

    etc.
     
  12. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Observing the empirical history of the U.S. I dont think there is any question that it is now & has been an empire for quite some time.

    If I was to date the beginning of the U.S. empire I suggest it began 1823 with the declaration of the Monroe Doctrine which claimed the sovereign right to rule over North & South America... Once the doctrine was established the U.S. began expanding its sphere of both economic & military influence & military prowess around the world... The Mexican-American wars expanded territory from sea to shining sea, the Spanish-American war expanded U.S. powers in the Carabean, the Pacific & Asia.... WWI, WWII & the Cold War spread U.S. political & military influence into over 70+ nations.

    "The U.S. maintains a veritable empire of military bases throughout the world—about 800 of them in more than 70 countries".

    If this isnt an empire then the time immemorial historical definition of empires is no longer valid... THE U.S. IS AN EMPIRE!!!


    The Monroe Doctrine was a U.S. policy of opposing European colonialism in the Americas beginning in 1823. It stated that further efforts by European nations to take control of any independent state in North or South America would be viewed as "the manifestation of an unfriendly disposition toward the United States."[

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

    Mexican–American War

    Armed conflict between the United States of America and Mexico from 1846 to 1848

    The Spanish-American War,1898

    The Spanish-American War of 1898 ended Spain’s colonial empire in the Western Hemisphere and secured the position of the United States as a Pacific power. U.S. victory in the war produced a peace treaty that compelled the Spanish to relinquish claims on Cuba, and to cede sovereignty over Guam, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines to the United States. The United States also annexed the independent state of Hawaii during the conflict. Thus, the war enabled the United States to establish its predominance in the Caribbean region and to pursue its strategic and economic interests in Asia.

    https://history.state.gov/milestones/1866-1898/spanish-american-war
     
  13. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I would say the revolutionary war, 1775. Why? because it is the first a portion of the population, albeit a small percentage (~ 3%) fought in unison to protect "the state" even though "the state" did not yet exist.

    If 1775 is the accepted start date then 2025 to 2031 would be the AVERAGE time of collapse. If the theory of overextension is applicable then as far into the future as 2050 could be expected.

    Has the US decayed enough? Maybe. I'm not sure there are deeper realms of depravity that can be achieved. All that remains is for it to be spread further through the population and that such levels of depravity become much more widely accepted or merely tolerated throughout the population. Will the US populace go that far? Hard to say because the one indicator we have, the recent presidential election shows high levels of, not apathy, but something more akin to a widespread cynicism. The numbers of actual votes for either candidate were in aggregate just not high enough to delineate popular will one way or the other. Trump's victory was narrow as was Killary's defeat. The continuing anger of the losing party and the treachery of the winner's own party indicate a deep, deep conflict among the populace as well as the ruling "elite". The greed of the corporate/bankster class is intolerable. The fragility and expected collapse of the US currency is widespread among the money/investment sector as well as other nations working to supercede the US currency as a matter of economic protection against the expected collapse are huge factors in determining the time of our expected.

    Based on the above I expect the collapse any time between this late spring/early summer and 2020. Despite the political hope offered by Trump and his "deplorable" support I'm certain Trump will fall short of his promises. No doubt, Trump will accomplish many. However, in aggregate, his successes will NOT "Make America Great Again". Not through any fault of Trump but because of the already established "weight of stupidity" burdening this country. The death of the dollar is essentially a done deal and the moral/social decay will not reverse itself no matter how much we wish or act otherwise. I's too late and the US is too far gone already.
     
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  14. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    I appreciate your thoughts but also think that 2020 is to early. So far my predictions have proven to be 10 or 20+ yrs to premature... TPTB always seem to pull a new improved wabbit outta da hat to save the system... A U.S. crash is a global trade system collapse, IMO the trading nations will support the $ & Debt until a new system is devised & installed... Unless some unanticipated exogenic shock event occurs.... something like internal insurrection & rebellion creating a civil war or maybe states declaring & defying Washingtons orders.

    Almost ALL empires die with a whimper... the USSR/Russia collapsed in a whimper, the British Empire, the Ottomans, Rome, Egypt, Babylon & Akka.

    IMO the U.S. does not meet the weakness criteria that predicts collapse in 3 short years (2020). Current political environment suggests there remains a considerable amount of supporting vitality remaining domestically & internationally... Financially, economically, domestically & geopolitically.... its rather hard to imagine that all of the current supporting currency could be destroyed in 3 short years... anythings possible but IMO highly improbable.
     
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  15. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    poor BB,

    wanting so desperately to watch the end of the world in real time,

    it will be here soon enough kemosabe
     
  16. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    so I'm typing and you are typing coming to your senses,

    I too am continually amazed re the resilience of the current regime,

    they continue bumbling and stumbling about, not a lick of sense to what they do, and yet onward we go into the future

    I mean seriously, bernanke, the kenyan, 'ole yeller, etc. Talk about a pathetic lineup, and yet, the economy continues to chug along

    That has to tell you something about residual energy

    proving to me also that the persons everyone thinks are in charge, certainly are not.
     
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  17. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Exactly, at this time & into the forseeable future there is no viable replacement of the U.S. empire... If there was a rising competitor and/or a threat to U.S. power & the potential loss of the empire, the children in D.C. would be replaced by responsible adults... there are signs of various weakness everywhere, they just havent grown intolerable yet...

    "You can always rely on the Americans to do the right thing, but only after they have tried everything else" -- Winston Churchill
     
  18. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Good thoughts BB.

    I have to agree with your assessment that "TPTB always seem to pull a new improved wabbit outta da hat to save the system". Their talent at doing this does seem almost miraculous. Indeed, there are numerous instances of when the economy "should have" by all reason collapsed yet here we are trudging onward. It is, to a certain degree, almost amazing.

    To an extent I would agree with you on the domestic and international supporting vitality. However, this supporting vitality is quite fragile at this point. It indeed does appear to be grasping at a revitalization. Yet those grasping are weary of repeatedly grasping to save a system that has deteriorated even more since the last end of the cold war. A system more deeply mired in corruption which is now being publicly exposed to a people who are widely ill equipped to mentally and morally take corrective action and in a more immediate way find themselves lacking in both will and resources to follow through on these corrective actions.

    Then there's that bugaboo as best described by Nassim Nicholas Taleb who literally wrote the book, The Black Swan and refers to unexpected events of LARGE magnitude and their impact on societies and even global socio-economic interactions. The earth is being primed for just such an event/series of events. Our weakness here is our social AND economic fragility. In previous decades we were ready, willing and able to relatively effectively deal with such black swan events like the Northridge, California earthquake. Yet where is the will, ability and resources to deal with the aftermath of Katrina? It would appear that aggregate social resiliency is hardening, losing it's flexibility to deal with the wide array of possible black swan events. Yet you must consider whether earthquakes and hurricanes are actual black swan events. Beyond their seeming capriciousness in where they will strike we have a "hurricane season" indicating clearly that we expect such events and just how rare are earthquakes in California? Have not preparations been underway for decades and warnings sent out to Californians about "the big one"? The same can be said of the New Madrid fault region. So beyond time, place and intensity these are, in fact, expected events. If we lack the will and ability to deal effectively with essentially expected events how could be ready for an unexpected true black swan event?

    I think it only appropriate that Fukushima be mentioned here. Here we are 6+ years later and the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear facility is STILL radiating the entire globe. And what is being done? Our government and it's deep state lies to us and ignores the threat and health implications so "You TOO can glow in the dark!" as you eat genuine radiated food and breath deeply that rarefied radiated air. Yep, nothing like a slow death. So, where is the will and ability of Japan in correcting this disaster? The Soviet Union found the will and ability to correct Chernobyl. The US wastes immense resources and will to effect "regime change", yet does NOTHING to impose it's will on Japan to clean up Fukushima even though such imposition of will might actually be, maybe, possibly justified as the entire country, and even the entire continent is being poisoned.

    The above events are "hangovers" from the past decade not dealt and even ignored. What does the future have in store? Rifts in the earth, sinkholes NOT caused by infrastructure failures, over 35 active volcanoes erupting over the past year, the southern central valley of California sinking over 2 feet in the last year and a half and all during a solar minimum reaching it's nadir. These are current events. They portend of something more and widely destructive coming soon. Together these are merely on possibility of a type of black swan event. The uptick in meteors, a new and as yet unknown form of cosmic radiation now hitting earth as our protective magnetosphere has weakend represent another source of a type of black swan event.

    Honestly BB, I considered much of what you have pointed out and I do agree with your assessments. Yet these other "under the radar" occurrences in aggregate were enough to persuade me to adopt a shorter time line for the continuance of America. It is a tough call. Sort of like being at "the crossroads" yet again facing a new decision but the same old Devil.
     
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  19. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    well done Alton
     
  20. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    I agree with the idea & concepts of Talebs black swan events... yet even when such events do occur, most empires die in a whimper. The first recorded empire, the Akkadian empire is suspected to have died due to environmental catastrophe, the final days of the Babylonian empire was a combination of ill-effects, in the end the Priesthood treasonously sold out allowing the Persians to conquer & control the empire without little to no resistance.... Both Roman empires died slow painful deaths, so too did the USSR. Around 1899 the British empire went into liquidation after a long decline.... Five examples of MAJOR empires dieing whimpering deaths. The German, Ottoman, & Japanese empires were conquered & all died deaths by war.

    History seems to suggest that major empires & civilizations whither away due to atrophy & weight, while minor empires & civilizations that try or are forced to expand are usually killed or restructured by war....

    Modern technology, medicine & agricultural techniques over the past 300 yrs have curtailed or obviated most environmental disasters such as drought while the septsis revolution & modern medicine has eliminated deadly communicable diseases.

    This is not to say that these risks have been eliminated... on the contrary, beginning around 1750 a.d. the planet began to emerge from a mini ice age, weather patterns stablized & a new warming period began. Droughts, famines & disease moved into a major decline as the environment began warming increasing agricultural activities & yields.... The new environmental conditions resulted in a new bull market in the procreation of hu-mans & animals (both domesticated & ferral) and spawned new political, social, economic & financial organization.

    If I was to assess the biggest risks & threats to our current living standards & political organizations & supporting institutions it would be the natural environment.... namely planetary temps slipping above or below the optimum temps that create above average agricultural yields.

    Volcanic activity and extended solar minimums or maximums are prolly the biggest risks as eq's, hurricanes, floods, tornados, etc. are mostly local events & risks.

    I consider & categorize the risks of a pole shift, magnetosphere collapse, Niburu, asteroid or comet collisions as very, very low probability events over the next 100 yrs....

    If I was going to categorize the biggest threat to our standards of living it would have to be from enemies both foreign & domestic and the state of apathetic witlessness that has pervaded the mental state of western civilization. The drugs, flouride, artificial chemical foods, education systems, fake ideologies & religions all combine to destroy our cultural heritage & who we are.... These are all processes that require numerous imposter generations to create & manifest the culture of whimpering collapse. All empires support the importation of foreign servants & unskilled labor; i.e. the immigration of outsiders that bring with them strange customs, mores & religions. Since they are the poorest in the society they tend to possess higher reproductive rates. Ultimately the original society, culture, religion, customs, mores & laws are slowly replaced to the benefit of the immigrant invaders... This is a recurring theme in the whimpering collapse of many empires....

    I have yet to participate in the poll vote on this thread... as I remain pondering & thinking about where we are at in the life cycle of this empire. Most kinda emulate financial markets, spurts of high growth for 20-30 yrs followed by 10-20 yrs of decline until the spurts of growth are 5 - 10 yrs followed by 20-30 yrs of decline until one day its continuous decline.... then reality sets in and the finality is recognized....

    I dont think the U.S. is anywhere close to the finality stage nor do I think it will arrive anytime in the next 10 or more years... At this apex it is questionable as to whether the U.S. can be reorganized and remain an empire for another century... if it cannot it will continue its slow whimpering decline... the decline will be observed to manifest in growing immorality & declining living standards....

    JMO
     
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  21. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Ronbo at Freedom Fighter's Journal says, in this comment at Crusader Rabbit responding to an opinion I expressed in Woodpile Report:

    [​IMG] The pot is boiling and recent events in Washington D.C. are almost a mirror image of what happened there in the spring of 1861, when pro-Confederate elements inside the federal government attempted to sabotage the new Lincoln Administration.

    And do we not have in the person of Barack Obama a new rebel president of a rival republic? Do we not see secession being seriously discussed in Leftist dominated California? Do we not hear millions of Leftist say, “Trump is not my president.”

    I predict soon they will say, “The United States of America is not my country.”

    What will happen next? If history is a teacher the guns of opposing sides will begin a dialogue.

    Mr. Barbour is a retired Army NCO with combat experience of the kind that can get you killed, when it comes to war and the politics of war he knows his stuff. His premise is sound [​IMG], his conclusion compelling and widely shared [​IMG].

    Mr. Barbour noted my reluctance to call the coming debacle a civil war. Fair enough, but I have my reason. The oft-cited parallels appear to, and perhaps are meant to, conjure up "the" civil war except without the cavalry and Parrott twenty pounders. Alas, there have been more substantial changes in the hundred and fifty years since The Unpleasantness.

    The civil war of the 1860s was geographically defined, its manifestos canonical, the armies Napoleonic, the front was bounded and orderly, gallantry and honor were valued if not always practiced. All in all, a classy affair as wars go. Contemporary civil wars are multi-cornered murderous brawls between partisan militias. Added to this are armed opportunists and the outright deranged. Front lines appear and disappear like summer squalls, alliances shift by the day, high-minded principles devolve into homicidal savagery while everyday life drifts into destitution and universal hunger.

    "Everywhere and nowhere" is an expression often used by partisans. Such unrelenting fear, added to general deprivation, can topple the mental stability of a whole populace. The slave labor camps of the last century depended on reducing their inmates to just this sort of haggard, fearful zombies. When partisan wars end, almost always by exhaustion, such a people are poor makings for the future republic.

    You'll recall Lee was urged to transform the Confederate army into a guerilla outfit and continue the war rather than surrender to Grant at Appomattox. He declined. The war had its raiders and marauders and the march to the sea, he knew such warfare and was repelled by it.

    In today's USA there are too many players for some guy in the hills—me, to pick one at random—to keep track of, much less figure out who's allied with who, all the hows and whys, and so forth. It suffices to be situationally aware at the local level, ready to repel invaders and prepared enough to outlast the calamity.*****

    ***** The real resistance, Word Around The Net - The resistance is not to one policy group or another per se, but rather to the arrogance, dismissive attitude, condescension, and contempt they feel from their government. Americans are increasingly fed up with the crap they're being handed almost daily and want real change. Those guys on the street with signs and chants and slogans? The ones breaking things and beating people and rioting? The angry and hysterical voices on TV? They aren't the resistance. They're who the resistance is against. There are three boxes of resistance to tyranny and abuse of power. The ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box. Keep refusing to listen and people move on to the next box. We don't want that last one opened.*****

    ***** The coming war, Amerika - Affirmative Action was yet another weapon in the war to establish a certain group of Brahmins as cultural hegemons in The United States. It helped finish wrecking what opposition to progressivism still remained standing after Reconstruction and The New Deal. Once the outcaste Whites were cucked, then the outcaste Whites could be ruled. So what happens when the masses uncuck? Just as the original Civil War was predominantly white on white; so shall this one be as well. African Americans may get collatorally damaged; but this is White on White – in house and in family. An old score, perhaps dating to 1867 is getting settled.*****

    ***** Bluexit, Amerika - Anyone with experience in this world knows that most people are disasters caused by their own poor decision-making. As a result, groups always demand free stuff and the right to be included everywhere. The next attempt by the functional people is to try to escape the dysfunctional masses by creating separate states. In this way, they think, they will be safe from the insanity and free to pursue their own path. As the Confederacy found out, however, this merely incenses the mob, which then attacks en masse. A better way for this to happen is to encourage the dysfunctional mob to break away and then to isolate them economically, politically and culturally.


    http://www.woodpilereport.com/index.htm
     
  22. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    A good and interesting post BB.

    It would seem that Ronbo found the pulse of the left. The left is suffering the same or at least a quite similar socio-political disaffection and subsequent disconnection that those on the right experienced when Clinton became President after the embarrassment of GHW Bush and the deep state undoing of Reagan.

    During the Clinton reign the left "made it personal" with Ruby Ridge, Waco, the "assault weapon" ban, "Hillary Health", and gross displays of arrogance like the "haircut on the tarmac". Sadly the right could not counter with anything more than lame-brained, limp-dicked laughingstocks resulting in a Bush scion as an over-aged frat boy who was the perfect puppet to be the face to cover the deep state's nefarious assault on America on 9/11 and to instigate the asinine "wah on terrah"... a war with neither objective or end but to insure the free flow of oil to the west and to spread the boundaries of empire...terminating in that notorious "graveyard of empires", Afghanistan. Notice how we are still dying there today (a hint to Mr. Trump).

    The left clearly feels threatened. Their easy ride of the past quarter century is no longer easy. Not only has the tide turned against them but, this tide is moving with serious force but the left is without break or bay to stem this tide. Not even the entrenched imbiciles of the deep state can save them. Their "fix" is no longer "in". They are, finally, at the mercy of reality... an unpleasant and difficult place to be when one's worldview is a fairytale based in a Marxist nightmare of error.

    I have to agree with Ronbo that the left itself is widely divided, disparate even. They are no more organized than the pieces in a new 1,000 piece puzzle box. Furthermore, their champions who now populate the ruling class are retiring and/or dying. Bernie Sanders is the only one anything resembling a majority of the left can rally around. I'm afraid that the reality of the left being up the creek without a paddle has settled in for the most part. The left is lost, has lost and, at this point, cannot be unified in any meaningful way to be a political force. The "new left" has also been deprived of their base, the embedded deep state. Trump and crew have begun demolition of the deep state in earnest which is casting the left adrift much like an iceberg. Wave goodbye.

    Yes, there will be eruptions of stupidity from the left. Protests, riots, destruction and sabotage of property. The perpetrators will face the law and pay the price of their foolishness which will act to dissuade other outbursts of leftist discontent. So the left will be contained and left to stew and smoulder much as the right has been left to do for the past quarter plus century. This will provide the populace with a "parity of pain" as the realities of government have now been experienced by all. This IS the danger point for ANY government. People, beyond the ideological extremists, will put aside differences and rediscover and share what is common among all...maybe.

    It is here where technology, at least as we have come to accept and utilize it, may be detrimental to Americans. The work of the forces beyond government has been to divide families and the use of technology has worked even further to divide individuals from individuals via the use of technology including social media. Virtual relationships by way of technology portend the imminent dissolution of society. These break human bonding which, in turn, breaks human society. As is known, "no man is an island". So at a time where we are given great opportunity to come together in our "parity of pain" to heal and move on, technology stands to act as a dispersant, like detergent in oily water, to separate us further from one another. Good for government but quite bad for humanity.

    Indeed this is a very dangerous time for America and Americans.

    As to the calls for secession, let me add my voice! Union was the rallying cry for the war of northern aggression. The notion of union was Lincoln's reason for war against the south. His reason for provocation at Ft. Sumter. His reason for transgressing the bounds of the constitution. The reason for making America the failing empire it is today.

    So what if California secedes? Don't let the door hit ya in the ass is all I can say. California is a failing state anyway so they might as well go out in a blaze of glory. What has California done for you or your state? Yeah, it's a pioneer in state legislation and court rulings. We have benefited how? Global warming? EVERYTHING is a known carcinogen to the state of California? As far as I'm concerned Sacramento is sacrificial...let the rite begin! Set them adrift on their own...and any other state that wants to join them or even go their own way. No fights needed. If people are unhappy being property of the USofA let them go. However, has there ever really been a time that government would do the reasonable thing? So a violent separation is a distinct possibility.

    For my thinking the left does not at this point pose a credible threat to the waning stability of the US. The collapse of the dollar poses a greater, more immediate and credible threat along with a crash in the stock and bond markets, realty and retail. If that isn't enough, earth changes, to me, seem the most likely area in which a black swan event could occur.

    In all, I suppose the best descriptive word I could come up with to succinctly describe the current state of the US would be fragile. It would take very little to push the US over the cliff.
     
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  23. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Excellent analysis & stated with great understanding of many layers of the current state of onion!
     
  24. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Onion! Lol! Scary that we sound so similar!
     
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  25. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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  26. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    * We are not rebuilding so still in decline. I would vote free fall. Fine when you jump off the roof and no problems until you hit the ground. tptb control when that time is.

    * Fake news, staged events, tptb will and can do anything to distract and control the masses....... until they eliminate them.

    * The entire world is chasing money....... because that is "the game". What most fail to realize is they control the game. If money is now only paper then why are we chasing it? If debt if only paper is it really debt?
    Sure there are a few that get lucky and hit it big but when 50% of the country only has $400 it's game over a long time ago. More and more are joining the working poor serf's no matter how hard they work, knowledge or education.

    * Is life about money or "life"?

    * When the game is not fair why play it at all?

    * I read where the economy is an "hourglass" economy. Note how an hourglass works. Rich getting fewer and fewer & middle class are all falling down into poverty.

    * We all see the reality....... the rest is just smoke.
     
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  27. tom baxter

    tom baxter back from 2004

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    It was in decline after 1970 and now I would say it's in collapse, probably since 2006. Collapse wasn't an option in the poll so I didn't vote. I'm talking collapse of empire, nothing else.
     
  28. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Bunch of negative nannies chaterin' away,

    1.jpg
     
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  29. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I had something utterly stupid to say...but I forget now. Long day and long night too. Goodnight Gracie.
     
  30. Alton

    Alton Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    In too many threads I post of other factors that may be the source of black swan events. These are often the source of my seeming pessimism concerning the USofA. I often make allusions to solar and cosmic energies, earth's weakening magnetosphere and other factors which no one living today has any experience in recognizing or dealing with in their day-to-day lives. So here is a concise video to give anyone who views it a brief but quite solid overview of what, on earth, is going on:


    To get an idea of the uptick in seismic activity it would be worth your time to closely look at the 2 picture charts depicting the amount of earthquakes from the last century and earthquakes from this century: Is Something Strange Happening Inside The Earth?

    For those interested, here is a link to "earth changes" videos done every month reviewing the weather, seismological, and meteoric events of the past month...this goes back several years. Each video is approximately 20 minutes in length.
    sott earth changes summary - YouTube
     
  31. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    @ Alton... The science saw adage that "nature abhors a vacuum" comes to mind. Oil & Nat gas serve a purpose in nature or they wouldnt exist.

    I suspect that crude oil lubricates the geo plates and the nat gas acts as a oil coolant. If this is true then removing to much of one or both from the Gaia system would in time begin to create alterations & changes in geology & climate as the plates begin warming up through friction.

    Removing millions of tons of oil & nat gas daily is going to have a effect somewhere. I suspect its appearing seismically producing EQ's, tremors & destabilizing the climate. Since our biosphere is 75% water, any heating of the subsurface would produce rising oceanic temperatures which then effects surface weather....

    Thats what I hypothesize is occuring today.
     
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  32. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    but but massah BB...........

    all that oil cames from dinosaurs! T ranny Rex and all the rest. Millions and millions of them, buried thousands of feet below the surface by that mean old asteroid.

    and all those alligators, well they were a might clever they were. They crawled their asses up those thousands of feet, all the way to the surface they did. They survived 'cause they could crawl really really fast.

    good grief man, you and your conspiracy theories
     
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