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Discussion in 'Coffee Shack (Daily News/Economy)' started by 917601, Sep 10, 2017.



  1. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    " so lets not ruin this forum " end quote.

    Mntman replies to a thread of pure religious arrogance { with claims that only prayers from the Christians can save America/ humans and we can THANK these Christian prayers , later" } , and you are telling Mntman to not ruin this forum , just because he doesn't agree with this type of religious arrogance ? Shouldn't you be telling this to 917601 ? OH, THATS RIGHT, YOU WONT TELL HIM THAT, CAUSE YOU AGREE WITH THIS RELIGIOUS ARROGANCE.

    If these Christian prayers are so powerful and work so well, wouldn't it have made sense to pray to god to eliminate the hurricane before it ever hit land and since millions of religious people did pray for that situation, and god ignored them , doesn't that prove that those prayers were meaningless ?

    Its pure stupidity to claim that God allowed a major natural catastrophe to happen, in spite of all the prayers, but God was nice enough to only allow the natural catastrophe to create 1 trillion dollars in damage and kill some people , because of those prayers.

    Does God or Satan create these natural catastrophes ?

    These are the types of questions, that the culties are truly divided on. All they can do is present their opinions on it, then act as though their opinions are facts.
     
  2. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    No, that is not the only answer...it is the only answer you wish to accept. Humans can be taught not to do harm to others thru their parents/upbringing/social surroundings, etc . It can be a learned trait and does not have to be a trait only instilled thru a religion/ god .

    There are countless humans/ tribes who embrace such moral traits and don't even worship Christianity/religion or a God . Ive known atheists and agnostics that I would trust way more then any self proclaimed religious person.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  3. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    And trump is the one out the bunch who truly is religious??

    The man who purposely filed for bankruptcy and didn't pay his workers in full multiple times, is associated with the mafia, attacked people fighting Isis, married 3 times and owned multiple casinos is the religious one?.. We are in his good hands???

    Not only trump but also his advisers?

    Im just trying to make sense of what numbers said.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
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  4. andial

    andial Sir Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    yes for a saved believer New testament takes precedence not for Christian zionists like numbers though, for them the old book is way more important.
     
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  5. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    I shall pray for you, to accept the endless religious delusions others embrace, no matter how illogical or asinine those delusions are. If you wanna ticket to heaven, you better join their cult of insanity , hypocrisy and double standards.

    Prayers are headed your way. Amen.
     
  6. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    ROFL...pure religious arrogance.

    So we need to thank you that this hurricane only created a trillion dollars in damage, destroyed the lives of 100s of thousands of people , killed people ,etc ?

    Yeah, thanks a lot numbers..thats quite a powerful prayer you used.

    Oh, I get it now...the prayers " worked" because this hurricane coulda done more damage then it did ?

    Now that's religious logic at its finest.
     
  7. Aurumag

    Aurumag Dimly lit. Highly reflective Midas Member Site Supporter

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    OT and NT = one "book" consisting of 66 books.

    I have been reading and studying the 66 books for 25 years, and I cannot claim to be am expert, but I do see the cohesion.

    OT prophecies were fulfilled in Jesus Christ, and some have yet to be fulfilled, like Judgement Day.

    Zionism is another issue altogether, and although I am no Zionist, I see how easily American Christians are swayed by such dogma since the majority of evangelical congregations are spouting pre-milleniallist dogma.

    Zionism poses a massive drain on the U.S. budget, and I believe I am accurate in calling it "foreign welfare."
     
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  8. spinalcracker

    spinalcracker On a mail train. Silver Miner Site Supporter

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    Aw come on Fella's , give it up...no one is going to convert anyone here...
    May I humbly suggest that it's all a Great Mystery.....Wankan Tanka
    Mitakuye Oyasin.

    image.jpg

     
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  9. Garyw

    Garyw Am I a Retired Veteran or a Right Wing Fanatic? Silver Miner

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    God may have created Hurricanes, drought, tornados, forest fires and other so called natural disasters but in my mind they were enhanced by Haarp and Chem-Trails.
     
  10. mayhem

    mayhem Другая перспектива Silver Miner Site Supporter

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    Many will argue that point. But for me, the OT that came out of Babylon with the Hebrews was tainted by the influence of the moon worshipers. While much is no doubt the same, I question it. The King of Babylon didn't let everyone go, and many who didn't agree stayed behind, just the ones who carried the approved message were allowed to leave.

    This subject is touchy, and I understand why totally. It's nice to have the history even as distorted as it is in the OT, but all that counts is the NT as far as I am concerned. Even Paul's letters can be questioned in some areas.

    End of discussion on this subject for me. Way to controversial, and can do nothing but start a peeing contest.
     
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  11. mayhem

    mayhem Другая перспектива Silver Miner Site Supporter

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    Very well could be Gary, could be indeed.
     
  12. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    LOL....you can put a 100 non-religious people in the same room and they will argue over which restroom to use....
     
  13. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    As to god and new orleans conversation....my religious family would contend that natural disasters, problems etc. are a natural function of living in this world...and that god willnot provide protection and blessings to those who are evil because it is against his very nature...thus evil is left to its own resources and good is blessed and protected...

    just thought i would toss out a perspective heretofore not mentioned

    Mayhem: I agree these subjects are touchy and polarizing and i think discussion is fine as long as it can remain logical and civil ....the problem comes when people dont respect the right of one another to have conflicting opinions and openly state them without being maligned ......just like what we see on the streets with the BLM and ANTIFA groups these days
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  14. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    We should test the above absurd religious theory. Find a good religious person and tell them to have sat on the florida beach as Irma arrived and feel the wrath of the 160 mph winds and 30 ft storm surge. I'm betting God would not have saved them .,

    If god supposedly protects good and punishes evil on earth , hes done a shitty job of it for thousands of years.

    I do wanna thank posters like numbers, for his prayers that kept Irma from only causing 1 trillion dollars in damage...I am convinced, if it weren't for all those Christian prayers, Irma may have caused 1.1 trillion dollars in damage.
     
  15. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    why isn't god stopping these evil humans that do this ?

    oh,,thats right..that pesky freewill thing again.
     
  16. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    I agree wholeheartedly Tazz. Unfortunately some folks can't seem to discuss an issue without spewing forth vile hatred and venom, calling others and their beliefs/opinions names.
     
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  17. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    HT, if I were God and you were my bratty kid, I'd sure give you an ass-whooping. Fortunately for you God doesn't see things that way. He will forgive you and let you repent. Hurry before it's too late. Jesus died for your vile sins, son.
     
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  18. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    HT, every curse you spew, every denial you utter seems intended to convince only yourself. Our prayers go to you to let the understanding flow into your mind.
     
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  19. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    Do you read any of the logical replies I have made to the delusional claims of the religious folk on here ? Please do not quote me a bible verse as a reply. It does not impress me. I like humans that think for themselves.
     
  20. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Here is what gets me.

    Religious people will say god does not protect the wicked, and he protects the innocent and faithful... but will also say that when a child gets cancer or is born retarded that it's part of gods plan.

    Innocent people die = gods plan
    Innocent people live = also gods plan
    Wicked get punished = gods plan
    Wicked don't get punished = not gods fault.
     
  21. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    Then that was his choice. I owe him nothing. Its not my fault that someone ate a apple from a tree in eden.
     
  22. Garyw

    Garyw Am I a Retired Veteran or a Right Wing Fanatic? Silver Miner

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    Maybe it is because you are not praying hard enough or at all.
     
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  23. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    HT, I pray that at some point you are like the Eunuch to whom Philip spread the gospel to in Acts 8--upon hearing AND UNDERSTANDING he IMMEDIATELY stopped, found water and begged to be baptized for remission of his sins. His heart and mind were open.
     
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  24. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Yes exactly! It WAS his choice, so REJOICE!!!
     
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  25. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    It's like this. If we as parents control every move our children make, they'll never learn to do/think for themselves and wouldn't amount to squat. Similarly God gives us free will. He knows we're gonna screw up and hurt ourselves and others. But we have to go through it to really understand. He loves us enough to forgive us anyway and offered himself as a sacrifice to overcome our sin...because we all deserve to die for our sins. Satan likes to use legalese to try to trick God, but God trumped him to win for all of us by sacrificing himself on the cross. Glory be to God.
     
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  26. mayhem

    mayhem Другая перспектива Silver Miner Site Supporter

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    Look around isn't that what is happening in society right now? Can't get a better example of total failure than that.

    Only men insist that their fellow men do this, and don't do that. The Ten Commandment are nothing but a example of how you can not be as God, no matter how hard you try. Man has made them RULES, not God.
     
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  27. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    Is there a certain level of prayer, as far as intensity ?

    praying on your feet...weak prayer
    praying on your knees..a bit stronger prayer
    praying in church - a bit stronger
    praying on your knees in tears- even stronger
    praying on your knees, in church, in front of a phony pastor , INTENSE PRAYER !

    Is God more likely to answer 1 over the other.
     
  28. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Religion is about faith and as far as Christians and Jews are concerned the Bible (word)........Muslims its the Koran etc...so your asking for proof to a faith based belief and not accepting bible text as a basis makes it impossible to prove to you........Probably a bad example but it would be like me asking you proof that water molecules are H20 your response would be to quote a science book or study that you have FAITH in because if i choose to disbelieve it there is nothing you can do to prove it....
     
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  29. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    Yes, and there is 1 of the big crutches for me. I have to ask myself , would it make sense that a all knowing God, would demand his thinking creations to completely believe and have faith in :

    the illogical
    the unprovable
    the hypocritical
    the contrived
    the unseen { divine sky gods}
    the untouchable { divine sky gods}

    aspects of religions and religious texts .

    For any God to demand the above, or else he will send us to eternal pain and torture, seems like a cruel and sick ultimatum/trick . Then we can add to that sick trick, the fact that there are thousands of different religions, sects, cults to choose from . Yeah, I know the reply of " BUT THE BIBLE IS THE ONLY TRUE ONE, BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS SO " . Unfortunately, the other religions and religious texts make the same type of claims , so once again, that is not proof.

    The religion a person worships is largely based upon 2 main factors. Where they were raised and what their parents taught them was the 1 correct religion to worship. It really is that simple. I was raised to believe that Catholicism was the proper one to embrace. Luckily I spent years reading and studying many religions and Gods and decided that even the religion I was forced to worship, was a fraud. Maybe I need to give some of the other
    lessor known Gods/Godesses a chance ? Like Egyptian Hathor or Persian Yazatas or Hebraic Moloch. There are thousands of them to chose from.
    Shiva seems pretty cool to. At least some of these gods admit to being destroyers and evil , instead of claiming to be a perfectly divine and moral God and then engaging in endless acts that are un-divine and immoral.
     
  30. spinalcracker

    spinalcracker On a mail train. Silver Miner Site Supporter

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    20Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

    26Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29so that no one may boast before him. 30It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”d
     
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  31. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Do not wear clothes made of both wool and linen.
     
  32. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    How about this beauty of a verse :

    " thou shall not eat scavengers of the sea"

    I guess if you ate a oyster or crab, you are also going to hell . Hell is gonna be a crowded place....it may be painful, but you wont be lonely down there.
     
  33. birddog

    birddog Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    How do you know that the wicked don't get punished? Not on this earth, maybe?
     
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  34. birddog

    birddog Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Acts 10
    9 Around noon the next day, while they were on their way and coming close to the town, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became very hungry and wanted to eat, and while the food was being prepared, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven open and something like a large linen sheet coming down, being lowered by its four corners to the ground. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals, reptiles, and birds of the air.

    13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter! Kill something and eat it.”

    14 But Peter said, “Absolutely not, Lord, for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean!”

    15 Again the voice came to him a second time, “You must stop calling unclean what God has made clean.” 16 This happened three times. Then the sheet was quickly taken back into heaven.
     
  35. HardTruth

    HardTruth Seeker Seeker

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    I would say , its a pretty shitty system..where God allows the most evil and wicked humans on earth to have the most power, wealth, best foods, mansions, jet planes, best healthcare , hottest sexual companions, etc....in this earthly realm, and then to tell the good powerless people to ignore all those earthly benefits, because when those people perish , then they get punished...and when the good people perish, that's when you get rewarded.

    LOL..the good people gotta wait till death, to get their rewards and sit back and watch the evil people get all the rewards on earth. What a system !

    IMHO a better and more productive system is one of instant divine karma on earth !
    None of this bullshit of the possible promise of a reward or punishment after death.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  36. Aurumag

    Aurumag Dimly lit. Highly reflective Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Faith is yet another name for the LORD Jesus Christ:

    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    Hebrews 11:1 KJV
     
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  37. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    How does anyone know anything?

    I have a hard time believing in a system that is based on circular logic and far fetched beliefs (multiple talking animals), not to mention an angry god who is jealous, wants fags killed, cares about what fabric you wear, and purposely punishes children for their parents sins.

    But I do understand that people want to believe in something bigger than them, if you choose to ignore the rather messed up things in the Bible, then it can be a good tool.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  38. 917601

    917601 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    ....let's proceed....

    And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

    16 This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.

    17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,

    18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there.

    19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee.

    20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them.

    21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?

    22 And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

    23 Then called he them in, and lodged them. And on the morrow Peter went away with them, and certain brethren from Joppa accompanied him.

    24 And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.

    25 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

    26 But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

    27 And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

    28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

    29 Therefore came I unto you without gainsaying, as soon as I was sent for: I ask therefore for what intent ye have sent for me?

    30 And Cornelius said, Four days ago I was fasting until this hour; and at the ninth hour I prayed in my house, and, behold, a man stood before me in bright clothing,

    31 And said, Cornelius, thy prayer is heard, and thine alms are had in remembrance in the sight of God.

    32 Send therefore to Joppa, and call hither Simon, whose surname is Peter; he is lodged in the house of one Simon a tanner by the sea side: who, when he cometh, shall speak unto thee.

    33 Immediately therefore I sent to thee; and thou hast well done that thou art come. Now therefore are we all here present before God, to hear all things that are commanded thee of God.

    34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

    35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
     
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