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SCAMMED by APMEX! Silver And Gold Dealer Fraud!

Discussion in 'PM Dealer Feedback' started by Mujahideen, Jan 5, 2017.



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  1. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    I personally have had nothing but success with APMEX, I'm just wondering if they ever addressed this issue and I want to bring this to the attention of the people on this forum.

     
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  2. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Published on May 28, 2015
     
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  3. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I pretty much stopped using them due to their record keeping stuff and because they simply haven't had the best price on what I've wanted the past few times I was ready to buy.

    Never have I had a single problem getting precisely what I ordered from Apmex in a timely fashion though.
     
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  4. the_shootist

    the_shootist I self identify as a black '69 Camaro Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    I have had nothing but success with APMEX over the past two years
     
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  5. birddog

    birddog Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    My only problem with Amex is their junk silver bags. I have bought 2 and they were both short a coin. They did send the coins, but I won't buy bags any more.

    How many people open bags and count? Maybe it was a coincidence, maybe not.
     
  6. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    There are many things this can be,

    -reality
    -a whiny buyer making shit up
    -a competitor
    -etc

    Without confirmation of the story, it is pretty hard to blast the dealer IMO.

    Secondly, now the guy claims the dealer is to cover bad employees at the usps? Really?
    His real problem with his 'supposed' evidence is with the us post office in reality?

    Fraud is fraud, and the dealer did not participate in the fraud (signing of doc) and theft (missing goods).
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  7. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    fyi, this is from the apmex faq,

    states fully insured, and their responsibility to file a claim
    does not state anything about 50 buck max

    -----------------


    Is my package insured while in transit?
    American Precious Metals Exchange fully insures all of its shipments. Should anything happen while your package is in transit to you it will be covered by our insurance policy. However, we will not accept responsibility if you have left instructions with any carriers or delivery service to leave parcels un-attended for you without the need for a signature. Or, you have given them instructions to leave your package with someone else such as a building manager, neighbor, drop-off location such as Mail Boxes etc., The UPS Store, etc.. Additionally, we will not assume responsibility for packages that are signed for by apartment/complex building management.

    When we ship to you, if metals are lost or damaged in transit, it is our responsibility to pursue any claim with the insurance company. If we determine the package is lost or damaged, we file a claim. We reserve the right to re-ship your items or refund your money at our discretion.
     
  8. goldielox1

    goldielox1 Seeker Seeker

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    Based on this, do you think this case should be covered by APMEX?

    It's an interesting case. I'm confused why this person couldn't get the $ from the USPS since there was an admission of theft by an employee?
     
  9. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Not sure how the insurance works.

    It was not lost, as it was clearly reported as 'delivered'.
    The fraud is a whole different thing IMO.

    Insurance may not cover it anyway, as it falls under the purview of illegal activity.

    ????
     
  10. stAGgering

    stAGgering Seeker Seeker

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    APMEX is a rip off big bank shill.
    The followers worship APMEX in a similar fashion as NWT was, like a drug.
    Thankfully, smaller PM dealers are competitive, or top dollar ego buffoon APMEX would rule, like a pimp.
    Want to get #@*$%+ buy APMEX.
    Want to pay more to "feel" more secure, go APMEX.
    Wish to pay less, same security, and support diversity, DO NOT.
    Exception exists only in regards to supply, same for all PM dealers, -except MCM spawn.

    Waiting "3 weeks" to notify APMEX of delivery problem, not wise.
    Nor is allowing USPS to prosecute itself.
    Trust is like love, never is it on paper.
     
  11. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Naww, every time I used them in the past, not one issue.

    Not to mention they were the pioneers into the ebay space to put stuff out there accessible by cc with fast delivery with pricing that rivaled cash prices.
     
  12. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    IMHO if the theft happened in transit, it is included in the above statement by APMEX because theft is something that could happen and anything that does happen is covered.

    The guy is right. APMEX should honor the claim and then pursue settlement with the Post Office. If not, this means any other postal employee could do the same and the customer is just out his money with no recourse. At that point, what good does it do to purchase the insurance?


    Even Post Office insurance is a rip off. I know someone who just last month mailed something worth $500 that was never delivered. They bought $500 worth of insurance at the time it was mailed.
    ...but PO won't pay because they can't prove what was actually in the package. They were happy to take the $ for insurance though.

    Having valuables delivered via mail is great, if nothin' goes wrong. If it ever does you just might be screwed.
     
  13. Howdy

    Howdy Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I have never had the slightest problem with Hannes Tulving. All his shipments were prompt and complete. I received everything I ever ordered from him and Apmex too. When you do business with online bullion dealers you're taking a chance that you wouldn't be taking if you bought from a local coin shop. If I need to buy a large quantity in a short time, I might consider spitting it up into multiple smaller purchases from several online dealers after LCS run dry.
     
  14. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Not really.

    The insurance stopped as soon as it was signed for as delivered. Contract done.

    The fraud was not perpetrated by Apmex.

    This is a failure of the mail system and it is time to put people in jail for this stuff. We have all seen multiple issues of mail carriers not delivering, tossing in the trash, delivering to wrong address, etc.

    The problem needs to be resolved at that level with severe consequences.
     
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  15. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    It's gotta be true! I didn't get any popcorn this year! Or was it stolen in transit?
     
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  16. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That's just it. It wasn't delivered.


    It doesn't have to be. APMEX states that should "anything" happen in transit, that they will cover it.
    Theft is included in the definition of "anything", last I checked anyways.


    Which is why APMEX needs to be involved with it. The only way the PO would deal with the customer himself is if he agreed to not press charges. APMEX needs to put their weight behind it to make sure that what you suggest is actually done. APMEX carries clout with the PO that an individual does not.


    What if I owed you a $1000 and I mail it, but my brother in law intercepts it en route and signs your name stating it was delivered? Is my debt to you then paid in full? I have delivery confirmation, after all.
     
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  17. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    bullshit

    it was delivered,

    what the guy states may or may not be the truth.
    the whole story could be a fabrication

    as I stated, it was signed for, contract over. Delivered.

    quit being obtuse on something so simple
     
  18. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Yeah, now it is the online dealers responsibility to run a .gov business

    good luck with that idea

    the amount of fraud and stolen packs could explode if all of this just went on the dealers shoulders, and everyone would be paying more for metal.

    no no massah dealer, I didn't receive no package massah.........

    send me another one.........
     
  19. CrimsonGuardJay

    CrimsonGuardJay Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I have had zero issues with apmex in 4 years, zero...

    The only thing I would bother with is the special price deals on eBay, otherwise their prices are not competitive...

    They do occasionally have a rare type of coin that no one else has, but otherwise, not anything to bother with if you just want bullion coins.
     
  20. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Stolen via forgery does not constitute delivery.


    My bottom line on this is that if this is even a possibility, and it most certainly is, I will never order such things online. All it takes is for my package to cross paths with but one dishonest postal employee, and I'm out my money with no recourse.
    ...and as you already stated, we've all seen numerous accounts of documented postal employee theft and destruction of mail. When I visit a lcs, that is never within the realm of possibility.
     
  21. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Whenever I order "transmission parts" I always have them call for personal pickup........
     
  22. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    yeah well,

    my lcs is a thief of a different color,

    so I do buy from reputable online dealers and have no issues
     
  23. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    seriously???

    be glad to take that up in court.
    It requires signature of delivery. That is it. That is all it states.

    They have a sig, the contract is complete.

    As for the whole 'trial in the court of public opinion', that again is a different story. Dependent on amount in question, it can be a marketing expense to make it go away.
     
  24. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That may be, but you'll never walk out the door without your purchase.

    I just don't like idea of being told that I'm covered if "anything should happen", only to find out after something happens that I'm not actually covered.

    If there are any circumstances where I would not be covered, that should be stated up front. It's not. Seeing that postal employee theft is not covered by APMEX insurance, they should at least tell customers that.
     
  25. 90%RealMoney

    90%RealMoney Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I bought a couple $100.00 face bags of 40% from Apmex. Opened them up, and found a 90% half in each bag of 40%. Nice little bonus. I must be lucky. I've bought from just about all of the large online dealers, never had an issue with any of them, with the exception of shipping time. JMB ships the fastest in my opinion, but they are right next door to me in Las Vegas. Apmex has very well packaged, double boxed orders. Bay PM usually takes a week or longer to arrive. I wish some of these outfits would pack silver shipments tightly, so you can't hear the tell tale "ping" when shaking, or just handling the box. That's a no-bainer that many need to address. I would rate Apmex the best in the packaging category.
     
  26. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Seriously.

    "Delivery", means, to the intended recipient.
    By the postal services own admission, the package was not actually delivered to the intended recipient. So the alleged "delivery confirmation" APMEX stands by is fraudulent because there was no actual delivery.

    APMEX trusted the PO to transfer possession between themselves and their customer and offered their customer assurances that if anything happened to his shipment while in the possession of the postal service, that it would be covered by APMEX.

    Their customer is a total victim in this process who in good faith believed APMEX's statements that should "anything" happen to his shipment, it would be covered. When in reality, nothing could be further from the truth.
     
  27. GOLDBRIX

    GOLDBRIX In God I Trust and most in GIM Gold Chaser

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    It is a USPS PROBLEM (In CAPs because it is a big problem) just in the last two months here in the Central KY area two postal employees were caught dumping mail. I recall there were several this past year.
    In my previous employment I had a mail carrier who was doing prison time. When the Postal Inspectors went to his home the man's entire attic was full of Undelivered Mail.

    I personally think the USPS keeps the wraps on this stuff in fear of losing more business to private carriers.
     
  28. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I wonder how much of it was insured that they then refused to pay on due to there being no way to determine what was actually in the envelope or box.
     
  29. ErrosionOfAccord

    ErrosionOfAccord #1 Global Warmer Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    I bought a $100 bag that was missing ten thin dimes. Told them about it and they sent ten more thin dimes but yeah.
     
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  30. Howdy

    Howdy Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Online dealers are the ones who choose the shipper. They hire the shipper and are thus responsible to the buyer. If the shipper is negligent, then he is responsible to the person who hired him, the seller.

    In business, one is generally not responsible to someone not in the agreement. There is no agreement between shipper and buyer in such cases, is there?
     
  31. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Just order monster boxes...... they are to heavy to shake....... just don't go anywhere near a boat.
     
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  32. GOLDBRIX

    GOLDBRIX In God I Trust and most in GIM Gold Chaser

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    Or chain it to the boat, second anchor :fishing: :2 thumbs up:
     
  33. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    I don't know the Apmex details but I have a lot of commercial shipping experience. INCOTERMS were designed so that there was worldwide uniformity in when title changed hands. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms

    So in my business if I ship something ex works, the client owns it the minute it leaves my property. If it's lost or stolen it's his insurance problem. If it's DDP Client it's my property and my problem until he gets it.

    Any interception before my customer gets it and it's my problem to extract reimbursement from my courier or my insurance company
     
  34. <===Foolsgold

    <===Foolsgold Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    Well he'll not be getting any popcorn that's for sure.
     
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  35. <===Foolsgold

    <===Foolsgold Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    Another post by the same guy. You're a big boy draw you own conclusions.

     
  36. Usury

    Usury Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I 100% agree with this. HOWEVER, I also agree with Scorp's comment that we don't really know what happened or if the video poster is even being honest. Anyone can post a video and claim anything. There is rampant "return" and "never received" fraud perpetrated by buyers all the time. Tough call.

    Personally I've not had an issue with Apmex on either side of a transaction. One time of many, they shipped the wrong year on a quarter I bought to complete a collection. Quick email and the problem was hastily rectified.

    Also, a couple years ago I reached out to various dealers asking how do they know for sure that bullion they buy to sell to us is real? Apmex was the only one that responded with a real answer: they scan it all with XRF.
     
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  37. Usury

    Usury Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    LOL

     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
  38. Usury

    Usury Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    These are consumer deals, not commercial.
     
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  39. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Only had 1 small hiccups & they issued me a $25 coupon for it.
     
  40. CrimsonGuardJay

    CrimsonGuardJay Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Every big bullion dealer has a scanner and checks authenticity upon receipt.
     
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