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Shouldn’t the United States Return to Its Constitution?

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by jimswift, Feb 13, 2018 at 8:26 AM.



  1. jimswift

    jimswift Seeker

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    Shouldn’t the United States Return to Its Constitution? <-link)
    By Laurence M. Vance
    February 13, 2018

    The Constitution (article VI, clause 3) requires that senators and representatives “be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution.” Do they?

    U.S. law requires that members of Congress be sworn in before they can take their seats. Senators and representatives must “solemnly swear” that they “will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic,” and that they “will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.” Do they?

    Regardless of any issues that libertarians have with the Constitution, it is the supreme law of the land that members of Congress are supposed to support, defend, and bear faith and allegiance to. Do they?

    They certainly do not. Americans live in a vast welfare state that is not authorized by the Constitution. American live in a country with tremendous interference by the government in business, society, and the economy. I would even go so far to say that 95 percent of what the U.S. government does is unconstitutional.

    Yet, the United States is very concerned about other countries following their constitutions.

    In a speech at his alma mater—the University of Texas— on February 1, ahead of a five-nation Latin American tour, U.S. Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson declared that many people in Latin America “still live under the oppression of tyranny.” He then singled out the regime in Venezuela:

    The corrupt and hostile regime of Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela clings to a false dream and antiquated vision for the region that has already failed its citizens. It does not represent the vision of millions of Venezuelans—or in any way comport with the norms of our Latin American, Canadian, or Caribbean partners.


    Our position has not changed. We urge Venezuela to return to its constitution—to return to free, open, and democratic elections—and to allow the people of Venezuela a voice in their government. We will continue to pressure the regime to return to the democratic process that made Venezuela a great country in the past.


    Tillerson took some questions after his speech. A senior studying government asked a question regarding Venezuela:

    So a commonly proposed solution to a lot of the problems in the country is the removal of President Maduro from power. In your opinion, is this removal necessary, and what could the U.S.’s role be in the possible regime change, especially considering the turmoil that could surmount from such a change?

    Here is Tillerson’s response:

    Well, President Maduro could choose to just leave. I mean, that would—(laughter). That’d be the easiest. We have not advocated for regime change or removal of President Maduro; rather, we have advocated that they return to the constitution. We do not recognize the constituent assembly as legitimate, and they need to get back to the constitution and follow the constitution.

    We—I think there will be a change. We want it to be a peaceful change. Peaceful transitions, peaceful regime change is always better than the alternative of violent change. In the history of Venezuela and in fact the history in other Latin American and South American countries, oftentimes it’s the military that handles that, that when things are so bad that the military leadership realizes they just—they can’t serve the citizens anymore, they will manage a peaceful transition. Whether that will be the case here or not, I do not know. Again, our position is Maduro should get back to his constitution and follow it. And then, if he is not re-elected by the people, so be it. And if the kitchen gets a little too hot for him, I’m sure that he’s got some friends over in Cuba that can give him a nice hacienda on the beach, and he can have a nice life over there.

    Five times in his remarks, Secretary Tillerson insisted that Venezuela or its president:
    • return to its constitution
    • return to the constitution
    • get back to the constitution
    • follow the constitution
    • get back to his constitution
    Good advice. But shouldn’t the United States return to its Constitution?

    1. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the war on drugs would be ended.
    2. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the DEA would be abolished.
    3. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Medicaid program would be ended.
    4. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the WIC program would be ended.
    5. If the United States returned to its Constitution, federal funding of education would be ended.
    6. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Department of Education would be abolished.
    7. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the food stamp program would be ended.
    8. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Department of Health and Human Services would be abolished.
    9. If the United States returned to its Constitution, federal funding of arts and culture would be ended.
    10. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and NPR would be abolished.
    11. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the SSI program would be ended.
    12. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the TANF program would be ended.
    13. If the United States returned to its Constitution, federal minimum-wage laws would be abolished.
    14. If the United States returned to its Constitution, federal job training programs would be ended.
    15. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Department of Labor would be abolished.
    16. If the United States returned to its Constitution, federal anti-discrimination laws would be eliminated.
    17. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) would be abolished.
    18. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Medicare program would be ended.
    19. If the United States returned to its Constitution, federal spending on foreign aid would be eliminated.
    20. If the United States returned to its Constitution, federal funding of scientific and medical research would be ended.
    21. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the National Flood Insurance Program would be ended.
    22. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP) would be ended.
    23. If the United States returned to its Constitution, refundable tax credits would be eliminated.
    24. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the National School Lunch Program (NSLP) would be ended.
    25. If the United States returned to its Constitution, farm subsidies would be ended.
    26. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Department of Agriculture would be abolished.
    27. If the United States returned to its Constitution, federal operation and funding of space exploration and experimentation would be ended.
    28. If the United States returned to its Constitution, Section 8 housing vouchers would be eliminated.
    29. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Department of Housing and Urban Development would be abolished.
    30. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System would be abolished.
    31. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the ATF would be abolished.
    32. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the Social Security program would be ended.
    33. If the United States returned to its Constitution, AMTRAK would be sold to the highest bidder.
    34. If the United States returned to its Constitution, the TSA would be abolished.
    35. If the United States returned to its Constitution, travelers could bring with them on airplanes tubes of toothpaste of over 3.4 ounces.
    If the United States returned to its Constitution, I wouldn’t have to list thirty-five more things in another article.

    The audacity of Rex Tillerson telling Venezuela that it must return to its Constitution when the U.S. Constitution is violated every second of every day.
     
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  2. ZZZZZ

    ZZZZZ Seeker

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    There is no debate. Every elected politician takes an Oath of Office to uphold and defend the constitution.
    .
    .
     
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  3. Bigjon

    Bigjon Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    Constitution's have many forms.
    A Constitution can be a group of things that CONSTITUTE IT.
    The original constitution was named The Constitution for the united States of America.
    In 1864 a group of scallywags replaced it with the Constitution of the United States and turned "our" government into a corporation, with no authorization from it's original constitution.
    Legal documents are fixed in stone and changing one word makes it a whole new ballgame.
    The Constitution FOR always says it is THIS Constitution and the oath required is to support THIS Constitution.
    But they never have said that, even when they adhered to the Constitution FOR.

    Their oath's should be attached to a copy of the document the oath is for, to make it perfectly clear which Constitution they support.
     
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  4. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Few of them do!
     
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  5. Treasure Searcher

    Treasure Searcher Platinum Bling Platinum Bling

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    Way too many special interests have their way now, plundering the Federal Treasury.
     
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  6. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Being a politician isn't a job, its a racket! They have few skills beyond shaking hands, kissing babies and lying through their teeth! Heck, half of them couldn't get through reading half the Constitution never mind understanding what it means!
     
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  7. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    The problem with the Constitution 1787 is that MAYBE one man in a thousand understands the how's & why's of it!
     
  8. Cigarlover

    Cigarlover Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Where's the remedy to force them to return to the constitution?
     
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  9. BarnacleBob

    BarnacleBob GIM Founding Member & Mod. Founding Member Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Remedies were attempted pre-1861, they failed which led to southern secession 1861. That too failed... !!! The only remedy is a total sociopolitical collapse followed by reorganization. I dont even expect that as robots & AI will in the future make polity & economics obsolete..... give it 50 yrs or less. JMO
     
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  10. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    It's not whether or not the gov abides by the Constitution or not, because the gov does abide by it as interpreted by the SC.

    So the problem is one of interpretation. Ie: the old, what is the meaning of "is", thing.

    Myself, I'm an originalist. It says what it means, and means what say as defined in 1791
    ...and to get back to that, all we need to do is get a large majority of the public to see it that way too and it will change.
     
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  11. Cigarlover

    Cigarlover Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    maybe we can get CNN and MSNBC to start talking about it.
     
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  12. FunnyMoney

    FunnyMoney Silver Member Silver Miner

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    "It's just a (Beep-Beep) piece of paper." - Bush #2

    If we returned to the original constitution a lot of people would need to be hung for treason. I didn't see that mentioned in the article.
     
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  13. Po'boy

    Po'boy Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Until we get off fiat I don't see a return to the organic intention of the founders.
     
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  14. FunnyMoney

    FunnyMoney Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Of course not.

    But today, the obvious has become obsolete. For thousands of years, people understood that when the money becomes corrupted, nothing can be free, fair or safe. Many a past revolution demonstrated this. Every piece of the paper money printing presses were dismantled and destroyed in front of the masses, for all to see, at the end of the French Revolution.

    Humans can not be trusted. The heavy weight of gold in your pocket is the price of being wealthy and the pinging sound of silver is the sound of freedom.
     
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  15. Po'boy

    Po'boy Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Property to one's labor is the most important right to have.http://georgegordon.org/audio/radio/mp3/383a-32.mp3
     
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  16. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Children are the future, they are out there snorting drugs, eating tide pods, not sure what bathrooms to use and have 27 different gender pronouns.

    Everyone gets a vote so we are fucked until people take parenting and teaching their children seriously.

    They will be too busy being pro or anti trump or whomever to even know what the constitution is.
     
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  17. Po'boy

    Po'boy Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    You had a quote about letting the state educate kids at one time I believe that put it perfectly.
     
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  18. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Good point! Let's take who's actually voting a hell of a lot more seriously than we do and maybe the limit it to only people who have a stake in America and aren't here for the GIBS.
     
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  19. Po'boy

    Po'boy Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    The exchange stabilization fund could be called the wizard behind the curtain.
     
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  20. Po'boy

    Po'boy Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Hell the president is pushing for amnesty for proven democrat voters.

    Hey it's good for corporate interests screw the country.
     
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  21. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Is he? Are you sure? Hint: Don't believe everything you read. It may be purposely inaccurate for a number of different reasons. Have you seen how he baits people? Don't take everything he says and dose at face value. Give the man a chance to do what we hired him to do.
     
  22. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    I hope you understand that NOTHING good of any real significance will be accomplished until society changes and that has to start at home.

    Who is going to decide that only land owners or taxpayers should vote? All the people who don’t own land or pay taxes? Not a chance.
     
  23. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    I agree! We have to make many changes to many things which directly affect society. Exporting the trash would be a good start. If we keep importing dependents to the system we'll keep spiraling down until anarchy reigns. That's a change in society that I feel we're destined for if Trump, teaming up with the good guys in government fails to stop the bleeding. I'm not sure they can at this point.
     
  24. Po'boy

    Po'boy Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    I'm going by his previous campaign promise to rescind daca day one not wait till sued then push this to the front.

    That's what I base it on.

    Plus maga hats made in China does not bode well.

    His shot was doing as he said, he didn't.

    Eisenhower did more with less.
     
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  25. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Sometimes the plans need to change and priorities reset after you come face to face with the scope of the job. You can give up on him if you like but I'm going to cut the guys a little slack and watch how things pan out. It's not like I have a second option.

    Re: Hats made in China

    Seriously dude? You got your panties in a bunch because he used hats made in China? We have much bigger problems than that!
     
  26. FunnyMoney

    FunnyMoney Silver Member Silver Miner

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    In Europe, most people simply look the other way, regardless where they go to school or what they've learned. Each revolution has ended in failure and the kings and queens remained in control. Had we not picked a side they would have eventually come back over here for us. Eventually they did anyway.

    European leaders are evil and their citizens have proven over the last 2000 years that they can't be trusted to defend liberty. Taxpayers are slaves and land owners have a responsibility to their community not to the central bank. Most people would never be able to own land or a home in today's dishonest financial system without a 30 year pledge to the central bank. A centrally controlled bank is against the majority of the founder's teachings.

    Individual responsibility and the truth are required to get back to the God given rights the founders intended for us to protect.

    Until the truth overtakes the lies, no amount of change to the education or political system will derail the slow road toward tyranny. Nobody will even approach the fact that the laws of physics can not be suspended, not even for just one day.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018 at 2:55 PM
  27. Po'boy

    Po'boy Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Is my pussy showing?

    I found the hypocrisy hilarious and know bullshit by the smell.

    I'm old enough to smell it from far off.

    The stench is getting worse.

    By all means keep the faith.

    It was a good tune.
     
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  28. the_shootist

    the_shootist The war is here on our doorstep! Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    If Trump was another talking head politician (politician being the operative word) I would be in 100% agreement with you sir. No one like Trump has ever help the office, not in the last 100 years anyway.

    My take? This time it IS truly different (and that's a mouthful coming from me). Let's see if we've been duped by the Donald and the results are still the same. If so, I'll be the first one to commit seppuku!
     
  29. FunnyMoney

    FunnyMoney Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Is there a way to bet on MAGA? Is Las Vegas taking odds on the size and wealth of the middle class? He's still got a couple years till the next election cycle begins to heat up. Or maybe you'll give him another 4 after that.

    With one trillion dollar per year increasing debts, increasing MIC spending, increasing trade deficits and more money transfers to the elite, I'm not sure how that gets us to MAGA. But I admire your faith in our current command n chief, even though I see it as unfounded.
     
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  30. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    You can't get there from here.
    Most people wear their chains lightly.
    No chance of a real return to the Constitution.
     
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  31. ZZZZZ

    ZZZZZ Seeker

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    With apologies to Everett Dirksen, who would be appalled and disgusted by the current state of affairs,

    "A trillion here, a trillion there, and pretty soon you're talking about real money."
    .
    .
     
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  32. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Go to Walmart and you can clearly see why.
     
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  33. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    Fixed it for ya.
     
  34. FunnyMoney

    FunnyMoney Silver Member Silver Miner

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    No, I didn't say that, and you should remove it. Don't try to quote me and leave my name next to your incorrect, deceptive and distraction comments. European leaders have been mostly from other religions (but again for the millionth time, they're no longer of those once they ride with the devil) and the religion of satan is where these people end up.

    So you can stop trying to put words in my mouth. If you become rich and powerful or in a position of national leadership one day you might find yourself in the sights of the real evil, and they won't be holding up the Torah, so you won't be saying, "ah, I always thought so." Easily deceived it appears you can be. I remember your handle from before and I've read your harping against jews from before.

    I said the European leaders throughout history with the exception of maybe 2 or 3 or some really small number. Liberty minded people can be found in all of the mainstream religions, but unfortunately to get into a position of political or military leadership can often require selling your soul to the devil. Once a soul throws in with the devil they are no longer a member of anything their parents were.

    Since jewish people proclaim to follow the ten commandments then if they follow satan they can no longer be considered jewish. So stop your false religious condemnations, you've been attached to these false views for a long time. I've seen this all over the world, people blame some race, religion or color for their troubles. Get a grip on what it means to have a soul and a heart before you lose them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018 at 12:59 AM
  35. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    You blamed Whitey and I fixed it. Now you fixed it too.
     
  36. Bigjon

    Bigjon Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    The curious thing about Jews (Victims) is when you closely examine their situation you find that Jewish leaders created the situations where they are percieved as "The Victims".

    And we must never ever criticize the poor Jews.

    Jews financed and brought forth Hitler.
     
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  37. Po'boy

    Po'boy Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Dual citizenship is loyalty to none.

    Does the president love AIPAC?

    Did he run and get votes on non interventionism?

    Then after elected does exactly the opposite.

    Anyone smell that?
     
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  38. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    nzQyFq1.jpg
    Dual citizenship is usually loyal to one....not the one they profess loyalty to.
     
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  39. FunnyMoney

    FunnyMoney Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Bull shit!

    You like to change other people's words to meet your own false agenda. I never said Whitey and I never said Jew. I said European leaders, some who may be white but they don't represent all white people. And some may claim to be jews but they are not. How can they be jews if they reject those teachings.

    Do you really think all White people are the same? Do you really think all people who say they belong to a particular group, like jews, are the same?

    Can't you formulate your own words and ideas without putting words into the mouth of others. I spit your words out and I reject your ideas, they are generalizations that don't make sense, negate individual responsibility and negate free will.

    You ideas are a distraction from the Truth and prevent any correct analysis or civilized debate. And again, stop re-arranging my words and posting your lies, placing my handle next to them to make readers think I wrote them. Either remove those changes to my comments or I will begin to do the same to your posts.
     
  40. hoarder

    hoarder Midas Board Mmbr Platinum Bling

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    "European" has two meanings just like "Black" has two meanings. "Europeans" means White people. If you put a mouse in an aquarium, it does not make him a fish. When a Khazar moves to Germany he does not become a German, regardless if he has German citizenship. When you blame "European leaders" for what is done by people who have no European ancestry, you are smearing White people and blaming the victims for the acts of the villains.
     
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