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Solar Roof & Electric Car = best transportation arrangement, if civilization falls apart?

Discussion in 'Survival (Preps & Homestead)' started by normaldude, Dec 27, 2016.



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  1. normaldude

    normaldude New Member

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    With the advancements in solar cell technology & electric cars, I'm thinking that a solar roof on the house, Tesla powerwall battery, and electric car combination might eventually be a great transportation arrangement, if civilization falls apart.


    For Daily Local Commuting:

    - Electric Car & Solar Roof on House: You can drive locally every day, without worrying about running out of power, as long as you come home to recharge the electric car.

    - Gasoline-powered Car: If you drove every day, you would run out of fuel pretty quickly, unless you stored a gigantic mountain of gasoline in your backyard.


    For Driving Cross Country:

    - Electric Car & Solar Tarp in Trunk: You'd run out of electric power after ~200 miles. But with advancing solar technology, you might be able to eventually carry enough solar tarp in your trunk to recharge the electric car. Drive 200 miles at night (before sunrise or after sunset). Layout solar tarp during the day, to recharge. In theory, you could drive 100-200 miles every 2 days.

    - Gasoline-powered Car: You'd run out of gas after ~300 miles. If civilization has fallen apart, it might be hard to find gasoline. Driving cross country might be nearly impossible.


    Some Data:

    The cost of solar power has fallen dramatically in the last decade or so.

    [​IMG]


    www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYT1b7cvvmY


    www.youtube.com/watch?v=CV_gHVneHoM

    In sort parts of the world, solar is already becoming cheaper than coal & gas for electricity generation.

    http://fortune.com/2016/12/15/solar-electricity-energy-generation-cost-cheap/

    The latest electric cars (Tesla Model 3, Chevy Bolt, etc) cost around $35,000, and have around 200 miles of range. 30 minutes of charging gives you 170 miles of range (supercharging station) or 10 miles of range (regular charging).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Tesla solar roof (looks like normal roof tiles), powerwall battery (to store excess solar power during the day, especially when you're out driving the car), and electric car.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilTn-Wv0a_I

    My solar tarp idea is the weakest link. The current technology & efficiency isn't good enough to charge a car. But with the dramatic advancements in the solar industry, and falling costs, it could be a reality in the near future.

    [​IMG]

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
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  2. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    You would be very vulnerable to "interruptions" on the roads...and where exactly would you be going anyway?
     
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  3. normaldude

    normaldude New Member

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    Interruptions on the roads would affect gasoline powered cars just as much as electric cars.

    And in any disaster situation, it may make sense to move far away from the disaster area. Evacuation areas and safe areas might be somewhere else. One area of the country could be an expanding warzone / pandemic, but maybe you can reach safe haven in Canada, or maybe ships are leaving a port somewhere else. For thousands of years, millions of human beings have traveled across continents & oceans to flee poverty, starvation, war, persecution, plague, etc.

    I can't predict how future disasters will unfold, with exact precision. But having the option of daily commuting & resource gathering, and the option of cross country travel is always good to have around.

    After all, with ALL survival planning & tools, you may never have to use it. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't have your options lined up ahead of time.
     
  4. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    One sensor failure in your electric car and you will be shut down anywhere along the way, don't even think of ground clearance in your electric car, in a SHTF, an electric car may not be able to haul all your stuff nor any of the stuff you run into along the way, and there should be lots of it

    Cross country? I'd rather use a gas powered vehicle and siphon what I need along the way

    I think, for inner city driving, around town driving, yeah, it's kind of a great idea but I'm more concerned with solar panels and electric cars being different forms of technology yet people will think that by owning an electric car and having panels on their roof, they're actually saving ANYTHING -
    because they're not

    And don't get me started on the local power grids and the years worth of loss' of on-demand kWh


    I googled Powerwall and found this to be interesting:
    http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/payback-on-teslas-powerwall-battery/

    "With the Obama Administration pushing policies to convert more of our electricity to intermittent renewable sources like wind and solar, it is important that the public understands the costs and trade-offs from our current system, which in most people’s minds, works well across a wide range of demands and uses. This blog answers some of the questions of the mysteries of energy storage and serves as a tool for consumers to judge the government’s experiment and the costs that may be hidden by the hype promoted by those involved in providing “fixes” to the use of intermittent renewable energy in place of our normal, on-demand, reliable electrical system."

    Electric cars fell out of popularity a century ago and any potential return to on-road use was severely restricted by the Federal Government

    Think about it, why can't I drive my golf cart across town? Why does it only go 25mph?
    Come to think of it, why can't I ride my ATV on the city street? Would make for a great city ride but my local community won't allow it, my state won't allow it and my Federal Government restricted my golf cart to granny speed

    But they'll sell me a $35,000 car that is made of plastic, catches on fire, runs out of operation in about 3 hours of use and they'll force me to subsidize, as a tax payer about $17,500 of it's cost (i'm not sure exactly but 50% sounds about right) with the owner of said company making a purchase of another business which sure seems to me that my $17,500 really isn't needed)

    "Installations begin in January 2017 for USA"
    Powerwall
    Last I heard, it was due out June 2016
    Here we go again

    LOL



    Oh Boy
     
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  5. normaldude

    normaldude New Member

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    Gasoline powered cars breakdown too.
     
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  6. normaldude

    normaldude New Member

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    All gas may be siphoned away already, especially if it's been a few weeks since civilization fell apart. But the sun will still be shining, so solar panels will always work.

    Using the gas-siphoning strategy requires a perfect succession of gas-siphoning opportunites, all the way across the country. If you ever find yourself running out of gas in the middle of nowhere, your journey is over. Start walking.

    Gas-siphoning is also technically stealing, which may require you to win gun battles every day, with a perfect undefeated record, in order to complete the trip. But with solar, you can stay clear of other people's stuff.
     
  7. Zed

    Zed Size doesn't count! Midas Member

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    True of all modern cars, well kind of, they have so many sensors now it just not funny!
     
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  8. Zed

    Zed Size doesn't count! Midas Member

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    Most all tech is screwed @ some point if that is so. If you can fix it with #9 fencing wire then mebe you are OK, otherwise it is just a matter of time. Try and jerry rig a capacitor or a diode or a Li-ion cell!
     
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  9. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    I will be riding a bicycle when the grid goes down.
     
  10. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Seems to me if SHTF, other than an immediate escape, you would be better off with some mules or donkeys. Refueling is a breeze and very natural, they can carry a load and stop for fuel when needed. You can sell off any progeny to the neighbors. They can help plow the ground when your petrol powered tractor or rototiller has no fuel. Keep in mind you won't be commuting to a job that no longer exists, nor driving to Walmart that has no goods.
     
  11. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Small off road dirt bike / mini bike with magnito ignition.
     
  12. normaldude

    normaldude New Member

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    Having a bicycle at home would be ok, as an extra option. But it's not a realistic replacement for a car.

    1) There's only a limited amount of things you can carry when riding a bicycle. A car is far more useful for daily foraging & gathering resources within a 100 mile radius.

    2) Riding a bicycle cross country would burn a ridiculous amount of calories. And in any survival situation, conserving calories (and beating the calorie deficit) is very important. So riding the bicycle means you'll be carrying less food/calories, while burning far more calories for every mile traveled. Not a good combination.

    3) If you've gone 1 week without food, you're going to be exhausted. Riding a car on cruise control is doable. Long-distance biking with gear is going to be a struggle.

    4) If you suffer a lower leg injury, riding a bicycle becomes a struggle. Riding a car on cruise control is still doable.

    5) If you need to transport an injured/sick family member, the bicycle isn't a great option.

    6) You can sleep in your car, with some protection for yourself and your gear.

    7) Car protects you and your items from the elements (rain/snow/cold). In any survival situation, staying dry is important.

    8) If you're mobbed by a crazed hungry horde, you can just run them over with your car, and get out of there. Can't do that on a bicycle.

    9) When cars collide with bicycles, the cars win.


    www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1cMIwZzfI
     
  13. normaldude

    normaldude New Member

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    Bartertown might be 50 miles away.

    [​IMG]

    What's the point of collecting gold coins, if you're never going to use them?

    And with a car, you can do daily foraging & gathering within a 100 mile radius.
     
  14. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Drop a tree or phone pole across the road & see what good a car is. Getter yet drop a tree across the road after a corner. Car goes by & you drop a tree behind the car....... TRAPPED!
     
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  15. Silver

    Silver Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Solar array with an electric car would work great in my part of West Texas - lots of sun year round and all the towns in this area would be accessible (with a 200-250 mile range). It looks like the future. My wife and I have been talking about this recently. But, I still want my F350 diesel :)
     
  16. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    solar powered all terrain vehicles replaceable emergency food source.....girls were giving them a test drive in the fall


    PA300040.JPG
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
  17. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    You can't get there from here.
    They call it horsepower for a reason.
     
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  18. pitw

    pitw Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Walking works too.
     
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  19. ttazzman

    ttazzman Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    those two have about 30k miles on them nationwide....good for about 30miles a day in rough terrain

    i look to my amish neighbors for help and guidance when shtf
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
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  20. Ishkabibble

    Ishkabibble Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I like the solar car idea. It fits well with a sunshine 'n rainbows style collapse. 'Cause that's the most probable scenario ya know.

    Seriously dude, thats like donning 10lbs of gold bling and going for a leisurly stroll through the Detroit slums to flaunt it. If TS goes down that badly, it'll be the grey man who survives. Haves will be prime targets. It is hard to imagine how one would be more bold in a full collapse.

    Tye only advantage I see to the idea in a Mad Max stlye collapse is that your suffering would end quickly.
     
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  21. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    b31f739a1e965cab94b1c098c3bff312.jpg

    If I am riding a bicycle there ain't no gas man.
     
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  22. normaldude

    normaldude New Member

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    If you want to hide the car, just keep it in the garage until you need it.

    The more options you have, the better.

    For any situation, you can make an assessment of whether it's better to be a grey man or car man.
     
  23. platinumdude

    platinumdude Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    At first I thought, that has to be fake but then.

     
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  24. normaldude

    normaldude New Member

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    This thread isn't about an electric car versus bicycles & horses. If you already have a bicycle or a horse, then continue doing so.

    This thread is about electric car versus gasoline powered cars. There's millions/billions of people who currently own gasoline powered cars.

    10 years ago, I hated solar power and electric cars, and I thought I always would. The cost & efficiency numbers just weren't there.

    But today, we may be reaching a point where switching to the solar roof, powerwall battery, and electric car may become a cost competitive alternative, with only minor changes to people's normal lives. Their roofs will look the same as before, their cars will look the same as before, they can do all their daily commutes & driving just as before.

    This isn't some hippie green energy "save the planet" issue. It's just a numbers situation, where solar roofs & electric cars are starting to become reasonably priced alternatives to traditional gas-powered cars, with the additional benefit of having unlimited energy if civilization breaks down.

    Much better than a circular game of death, where everyone is driving around in gas-powered vehicles trying to siphon gasoline from each other, back & forth, until all vehicles grind to a halt.
     
  25. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Yes & bartering with metal will be a huge target........ if ya got some ya gotta have more right?
     
  26. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    I think one would have to define "civilization falling apart" and what you want to plan to accomplish with said vehicle.
     
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  27. tom baxter

    tom baxter back from 2004

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    But the parts for old ones are easily come by and cheap.

    This whole argument is a bit silly though, you are basically saying that when all hell breaks loose and no gasoline is available, a person can carry on business as usual tooling around the country in their smart electric car. If you stop and think about if for a second you'll realize that anyone in a nice looking car is going to be a huge target. If you want an electric car, fine, but make one out of a reliable old 4 cyl car or a little modern 3-cyl. people were making them in the 70's with lead acid technology so I'm sure it could be done today to better effect with LiFePo and large brushless motors.
     
  28. normaldude

    normaldude New Member

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    The same would apply to a "nice looking" gasoline-powered car too. So this issue is a wash.

    Besides, whether you have a nice gas-powered car or nice electric car, you could always scratch it up and spray paint it when civilization crashes, if you really think that would be helpful.

    This thread is about regular people potentially switching from gas-powered cars to electric cars, with minimal disruption to their daily life (pre-armageddon). House roof looks the same, car looks the same, everything looks the same as before.

    In in the real world, most people prefer nice looking cars, both socially & professionally. Asking people to discard their nice cars for Mad Max type cars results in too much of a drastic change in people's normal life.

    If someone currently prefers & drives a non-nice car, they could always buy an electric car, and then spray paint it, dent it, scratch it, to make it look ugly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2016
  29. Zed

    Zed Size doesn't count! Midas Member

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  30. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    Just keep thinkin' of that scene in Tom Cruises "War of the Worlds" movie where they get van jacked by 100 people.
    Its a long walk home, if you live.

     
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  31. Ishkabibble

    Ishkabibble Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    @Flight2gold Someone gets it. Thumbs up.

    Your thread dude. Read your title. It clearly states your position. Don't try to change mid-thread. You lose cred fast.
     
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  32. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok I'd rather be Midas Member

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    I still think electric cars should incorporate solar cells on the roof and hood. It's not much maybe compared to what's in the batteries, but could be useful to extend the range a few tens of miles per sunny day.

    R.
     
  33. normaldude

    normaldude New Member

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    One version of the Toyota Plug-In Prius has a solar roof.

    [​IMG]

    https://electrek.co/2016/06/20/toyota-prius-plug-prime-solar-panel/

    However, it's not available in America, because they have yet to figure out how to get it to pass the rollover crash tests. And it only adds 2.2 miles of range per day.
     
  34. Ragnarok

    Ragnarok I'd rather be Midas Member

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    Well, that "only" adds up to 800 miles a year, would be worth it over time.

    R.
     
  35. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    Total electric or solar supplemented vehicles are great if the efficiency is there and, of course, will be viable transportation if TSHTF.
    Unfortunately, if it all really goes down, I believe a vehicle you'll start seeing again on the road will be wood gas powered.
    Not a lack of trees or carbon anywhere.
    untitled.png
     
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  36. tom baxter

    tom baxter back from 2004

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    Yes, he clearly says "If civilization falls" Which is why I tried to talk some sense, but Op is blind to anything but the upward progress of technology. The Romans were like that, and some of their chariots and aqueducts did survive into the dark ages. At least until people found that chariots needed well maintained roads, and the aqueducts needed constant maintenance by teams of paid workers.

    The thread is an exercise in Hopeium, that the techno future can ride side by side with industrial collapse and societal breakdown. Aint gonna happen.
     
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  37. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    No gas, no cars, no time clock, no Walmart, Mariah Carey might get skinny again too. She needs to put some pants on over the one piece and her fat ass.
     
  38. Flight2gold

    Flight2gold Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    Technology might save the electric car though and change the paradigm.
    We need to move from batteries to supercapacitors.
    Tesla and others are working on this very thing.
    Recharge in minutes and duration time is 1000's of miles.
    Once we break the barriers of recharge time and duration we'll see a major upward trend.
    I think when we start seeing in the news how dangerous solar vehicles can be, or some such, we'll know we're on the right track.
     
  39. tom baxter

    tom baxter back from 2004

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    This is probably the best survival minded comment on the thread. Roll with the punches is the secret to winning a fight and if someone's SHTF plans turn out not to pass the acid test then a good backup plan would be to grab a bible, embrace the amish religion and simply join one of their communities. Just wear the right cloths and walk in. I doubt they would turn a disciple away.
     
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  40. mayhem

    mayhem Другая перспектива Silver Miner Site Supporter

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    The solar roof concept isn't really new. I saw something like this in production at a trade show 15+ years ago. Problems with Musk's idea is hazard. You can litter your roof here in fla with solar panels, but they are trash after a hurricane and the insurance company prolly would find a good reason for not paying unless you get a rider first.
    Now solar roof tiles would never pass the code. So a area of the country known as the sunshine state where a solar roof makes the most sense probably wouldn't be allowed.
    I'm still not convinced that guy's like Musk are ever going to find the solution, that said I approve of the research, just not wanting to give him fed $$ to do it.
     

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