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The 1 negative thing that all living things have in common

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by HardTruth, Aug 31, 2017.



  1. HardTruth

    HardTruth Silver Miner Seeker

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    Or maybe I should say complex living things have in common.

    They are all parasitic in nature. Humans , animals , insects . None of them can exist without extracting / taking energy from other sources, whether it be killing animals or taking fruit-vegetables from plants/ trees.

    Perhaps this is the 1 main fault/ sin of life and the only way the human race could ever hope to be elevated to higher plateau , is to be able to exist and thrive and improve thru a system of complete self reliance and the ability to create its own energy without dependency on other life forms.

    If there is a divine creator , surely they woulda known his human creations had a better chance at peace and goodness, if our bodies could self sustain itself. Then again, maybe we still woulda been a failure. :} . If a advanced creator has no need for food/ energy to survive, was it a punishment to his creations to make them so dependent ?
     
  2. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Yep, it's called original sin. You can thank Adam for being disobedient and getting thrown out of the Garden of Eden.

    Our Creator has told us our chance at peace and goodness is not in a temporary world with a corruptible body, but in a new heaven and earth with a redeemed body where the lion will lie down with the lamb and death will be abolished.

    It is not a punishment to be dependent on your Creator, it is the only way that life in any form is sustained. You make the assumption that there is a plan B. There simply is not. We were made in His image to glorify Him, not the other way around.

    bb
     
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  3. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    We were designed to kill, and kill we will forever. We just need to be civil about it.
     
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  4. Someone_else

    Someone_else Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    We live in a system where we must use others. We had a choice, and we here chose to be here. We chose to go to a service to self environment because it would speed up our education. Or experience.
     
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  5. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    However, that would imply that man is capable of or is getting better. When you look at the history of mankind, you see wars and killing, greed, hate, etc. And you see the same thing today. We may appear to be more civil, but today it's the same animal-nature under the thin veil of civilization which anyone can see is crumbling. There is truly nothing new under the sun. What you are stating requires a lot of blind faith because there is no proof that anyone, anywhere ever did get better. Ghandi spent his whole life on this entire premise and if you read his work closely, you will see he died a frail old man no closer to anything of a better person than when he began his spiritual journey in his youth. The same goes for Mother Theresa. Aside from having different viewpoints than both of them, I will give them credit. They really tried and made it their life journey. And they failed. The problem we have in a fallen world is separation from Creator. There is simply nothing to work out within the self, because the self is just that, incomplete, and always will be so when living in enmity from Creator.

    bb
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2017
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  6. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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    Does an element live? How about a molecule? How about a cosmic ray? A photon, the wind...oh the list is endless. All these things are said to end at some point but in the interim before they extinguish, decay, change or die the question is do these energies live?

    Well if they live then darn it I missed the boat and fell into the water. So a parasite I will be feeding off of them till I decay, change, extinguish and die then I will become them; you are what you eat.:spamani:
     
  7. HardTruth

    HardTruth Silver Miner Seeker

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    Is it logical, that because 1 person disobeyed a command from God, eons ago , that every single human thereafter, suffers the consequences ?

    Is it logical ,that this same corrupt human race, we admit exists , could be trusted to write religious texts that are the 100% complete words of God ?

    Is it logical that if that religious text actually was the exact words of God, written down by humans from eons ago, that othercorrupt humans in charge would not have went in and altered the text to deceive the world?

    Would a divine all knowing creator, truly demand that his human creations throwaway logic, to embrace illogical religious claims, to prove their faith ?
     
  8. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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    I hate being redundant but "Why is God so needy?"
     
  9. HardTruth

    HardTruth Silver Miner Seeker

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    Kinda silly , eh ? Why would any divine, all knowing, all powerful creator, present the ultimatum to his peon creations that if you don't properly worship me, ye shall burn in hell for a eternity ? Even if you were the most perfect, loving, caring and honest human on earth , you still deserve a eternity of pain and torture in hell, because you did not play the religious lottery game and worship properly. BUT HEY, NEVER FEAR...you can be a mass murdering physcopath on earth, and be forgiven seconds before you die , if you ask for forgiveness and then you can enter the kingdom of heaven. Who comes up with this bullshit ?
     
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  10. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I'm not sure logical is the best word to use. I would use more of a relationship word. If you were to disobey your father in an earthly sense, wouldn't you expect some sort of punishment? If your father loved you, wouldn't the punishment really be for your own benefit later in life, not just to chastize or antagonize you?

    Isiah 55;8 says:

    For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

    For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

    It is His plan and His will and I will admit I do not understand all of it, but that doesn't invalidate it any more than a child cannot understand their earthly father's intent.

    God says he will preserve his word. (Psalm 12;6).
    It also says he wrote his law on the hearts of men (Hebrews 10;6)
    And it says that the bible was written by God, specifically breathed by God unto men (2 Tim 3;16)

    Yes, and it has been corrupted. You can prove that by looking at different bibles that contradict each other. There is a gay bible that says it was really Adam and Steve in the Garden of Eden. These different versions are obviously allowed. But then again, it says seek and you shall find. Knock and the door shall be opened. Seek first the kingdom of God.

    On the contrary, it requires a little bit of faith in order to turn away from the lies and illusions presented by the world and when you look toward Creator for guidance and walk by faith, he will show you the way which is directly at odds with the world. You must come to faith as a little child, otherwise he will not accept you. God does not accept dual-headship. It is his way or the highway so to speak. You either accept that he is greater than you are, infallible, good, merciful, and loving and has your best interests in mind or you decide that you may be capable of judging Him. Those are simply the only options.

    bb
     
  11. HardTruth

    HardTruth Silver Miner Seeker

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    So I ask you, do you think it is moral, fair and loving, that 6 billion other humans on earth, would receive eternal pain and torture in hell , from the divine, perfect, loving creator , just because they have different beliefs then you do ?

    Does this not seem the least bit, evil, vengeful and illogical ?

    If you were born in Iran and had parents that told you Islam is the only correct religion , theres a 99.9999% chance you would be claiming Christianity is wrong.

    Do you admit this ?
     
  12. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    There is one God, one Creator being. He built us and we are his husbandry. It is his decision what to do with us corporately and individually, just as a shepherd "owns" his sheep. He also gives us a life with ample opportunity to recognize that we live in sin and to follow him. He is a loving creator, but he is also just. Justice means that a price needs to be paid for iniquity. We know in an earthly sense it is wrong to steal, murder, etc. and have legal codes, but we know those criminals often get away and some things that are wrong and unethical are simply never punished. God will make sure each person gets his reward so to speak and then they will be given to the second death in the lake of fire. It says God is not willing that any man perish, but that all come to repentance. God hates sin and he hates seeing people perish, but you must understand there is a separation that will occur and when the books are opened (the accounting on deeds done in this lifetime), everyone will get what is coming to them.

    Statistically, yes but then again in the Western world most of the church is a phony and is living in open sin in contradiction to God's word, so I wouldn't say you necessarily have a leg up by being born in the first world.

    All people are capable of being saved by Christ and the testimonies are often very emotional. Here is one from a guy in Iran who came to know God by supernatural means, as best as I can describe it.

    The God of the bible is alive and well and if you turn away from your sin, he will go to the ends of the earth to help you. I will note there is no other religion in the world that produces testimonies like this and causes people to truly become a different person from the inside out.



    bb
     
  13. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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    You caught that....well I am trying to digest bb28's reply. God and the Jesus does not give a shit about me bb. Just like that Kansas song ...um..."Dust in the wind."

    Now bb every thing I wrote above you say YOUR god created, right? Now like things create like things, right? So your god created energy, your god created the wind the light the water the heat the, the, the list is endless as is your god, is this not correct? Thing is YOUR GOD did not create me. What created me was two happy hips bouncing around between the sheets and you know what I am not even sure they were between any sheets, could have been over a bale of grass or a stump or could have been "Stove Top Stuffing."
    Did your God give-tell my parents to conjure up the name they would label me with? NOPE! If there was Devine intervention then everything would be "Pleasantville" but that is not what I see as per this ocean of death I live in.

    God does not give a shit about me as he/it/she is too busy protecting those that oppress me and this goes with that old steen along with that hiil a ray...shit the list is endless.

    I face facts and the fact I have always faced is I will not submit.

    There is no U-topia.....
     
  14. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Where did I say nobody cared about you? I'm simply not seeing that anywhere.

    bb
     
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  15. HardTruth

    HardTruth Silver Miner Seeker

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    BB...tell me your personal opinion on the following :

    Any God/entity that demands or expects worship thru the ultimatum of eternal pain, suffering and rapture administered to his weak and mentally subpar creations , , is not a divine, moral and loving God. Such demands and expectations are the traits of a un-divine, faulty and vengeful entity/God.
     
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  16. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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    bb Why did you use the word "Husbandry?"
     
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  17. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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    Yeah bud that is e-zact-toll-ie how I talk to butter flies. You know them things taste nasty.
     
  18. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    You're confusing temporal with eternal. God loves us eternally. He states what he provides in the Lord's prayer. He gives us food and shelter. He forgives us as we forgive others, etc. But he is also a consuming fire. I will repeat God hates sin. You will pass through fire in this lifetime (being perfected/purified as gold and silver) or you will pay for it in the life to come. The passing through fire represents your turning away from sin and towards God and it is a painful process. Although, I think you are mistaken as to where the pain and suffering come from. They come from Satan and the world. God also allows free will and he works through it. There is also the concept of discipline, which could take a while to get to but the gist is that a father who loves his son will discipline him and God will do that for those whom he loves. Justice is simply that, what people deserve.

    There are a lot of things man does that involve suffering. Exercise involves suffering. Work requires suffering. Committing to a new path and changing your ways require suffering. But, don't mistake that with God being un-divine, faulty or vengeful.

    Before pointing figures, it would behoove you to figure out who your enemies really are.

    bb
     
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  19. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    1 Cor 3;9

    For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

    bb
     
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  20. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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    Well the topic is GOD...so where is the caring? Is it the profit, the stature? Where oh where it the give a shit because YOU used that word "Husbandry."

    Look at the line YOU just stepped over, there is no defense unless you build the barrier.
     
  21. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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    define sin without using god.
     
  22. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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    come on get with the thought that Saul who became Paul beat out the Jesus as the first PERSON to go down in the anus of written word[remember the word was god]he beat out the man in this respect.

    IF GOD practiced what you think he preaches then like all them game birds I feed every day, which are in cages, then I am a god.

    Do I ask or tell the critters to not peck the others eyes out when they get loose?

    U know what? I'ma gona find me a 1x4 and use my forehead and pound 16pennie nails; just for fun.
     
  23. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I think your words are no longer intelligible. I'm not sure what you are getting at.

    You can't. But, if you posit there is no God, you have about a billion other things that cannot be explained.

    bb
     
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  24. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I think I'm done chatting with you. You have a demented mind.

    bb
     
  25. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Site Supporter ++ Platinum Bling

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    he is not demented, disillusioned but he is going to have to figure it out on his own.

    Now bb28 if you are not a child of god then why do you worship a god? do you worship other men who could or might be gods?

    I will use that PERSON's words to Timothy....study to show thyself approved. Look they guy could rival the brother Nathanial but the fact remains "Discernment."

    And, don't confuse my typing with unintelligence ...
     
  26. Cigarlover

    Cigarlover Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    If war meant that only our leaders fought the battles, negotiations would become much more common.
    Everyone has the capabilities to grow their own food on a small piece of land. You can live in a tipi or small home relatively easily and cheap

    If everyone did this then no need to exploit the resources and destroy nature on this planet. It could all be done with minimal destruction.
     
  27. HardTruth

    HardTruth Silver Miner Seeker

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    Appreciate your replies, but once again, your only PROOF, uses religious circular logic of " the bible is true, because the bible says its true" .
    Providing endless bible quotes, does not verify your religion is the only correct religion, because billions of other people use the same tactics of quoting the religious texts they claim are the correct one.

    I always hear that GOD GIVES ALL OF US FREEWILL , on if we decide to go to heaven or hell , because he is so loving or fair. I think a more accurate term would be God gives us a absurd ultimatum of " worship the 1 proper religion, the 1 proper god, and worship it in a way God thinks is correct, or else you get eternal torture and pain".

    If I were God, I would be more enticed to not worry pressuring my peon human creations to worship me , and be more impressed with humans that live their lives on earth being honest, moral, caring...it is these people that I would want in my kingdom , not necessarily humans who worship me. IN FACT...if I were God, I would be ULTIMATELY impressed by my human creations that doubted my existence but still lived a life of morals, honesty and caring, because it is these non believers who lived such a good life , that did so, without the expectations of being rewarded by a God in the afterlife. In other words, they were not " good on earth" in the pursuit of getting their eternal divine rewards. Yes, that is the utmost impressive, being good and doing good, without expectations of being rewarded. Kinda like a person who has very little money, and yet will give a meal to a homeless person, but doesn't expect the homeless person to eventually buy them a brand new car.
     
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  28. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    2 “I am Yahweh your Elohim, who brought you out of slavery in Egypt.

    3 “Never have any other god. 4 Never make your own carved idols or statues that represent any creature in the sky, on the earth, or in the water. 5 Never worship them or serve them, because I, Yahweh your Elohim, am El Kanna. I punish children for their parents’ sins to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me. 6 But I show mercy to thousands of generations of those who love me and obey my commandments.




    What if another God says the same things?
     
  29. HardTruth

    HardTruth Silver Miner Seeker

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    In the end , if their is a creator/ God , I believe it/they are simply a more advanced species then humans . They have mastered physics, gene splicing, medicine , technology, travel ,etc. Their attitudes and character traits are even more advanced /respectable then ours , which is why I think its silly that such creator/s would DEMAND to be worshipped or idolized.

    God is simply a label given for " advanced being" , but faulty humans and there manmade religions have twisted that simple label for profit, fear, divide and wars.

    Just imagine if one of us could go back in a time machine to the year , 1817 , and take all our modern gadgets with us, to show to the people of that era. We would be worshipped and idolized as a " god" by the people of that era, simply because we had technology they never thought possible. Now with that example, we are only going back 200 years in human history. Now imagine, a race of beings that are 2000 years ahead of us humans , and how they would seem " godlike" to us, with their advanced technologies, civilizations, attitudes , traits, etc.

    God is the most common label for this, but I actually like the term " cosmic magicians" a bit more.
     
  30. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    The proof has to come from reading it and reflecting upon your life. In comparing the bible with other religious texts, you could ask:

    1) Does this book show superior knowledge of the nature of man and his suffering that other men do not know about themselves?

    2) Does this book glorify man or God?

    3) Does this book show advanced foreknowledge of future events that the writer could not have known about but have come to pass?

    4) Does this book show advanced knowledge of natural science centuries before modern science made these discoveries?

    5) Does this book give a credible story with many items that are provable based on your own life?

    6) For practitioners, is there a credible way to transcend the human condition? Can we really save ourselves or is God needed to help? And if so, how is it done?


    I have read other religious texts and had experience with them and my answers to those questions for them are rather negative. I basically have zero respect for other religions because I know what they do to people. My view is there really are not multiple religions but rather just the God of the bible and doctrines of demons because everything else lies to you and if you are capable of thinking for yourself (the bible says eyes to see and ears to hear), it is so easy to see there is no God in any other religion. But in order to see and hear, your mind must be fertile ground (i.e. unpolluted with half-truths, lies and deception). However, religion is your word, not mine. I don't really call it a religion. The problem for most people getting past it is some sort of pride.

    bb
     
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  31. HardTruth

    HardTruth Silver Miner Seeker

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    Ive read it also and the more I study religions in general, the more obvious to me, they are a sham.

    You are unable to get away from the circular religious logic of " my bible is real, because my bible says its real" . But I understand the trap you are in. Ive seen it and debated it for over 30 years now with Christians, muslims, catholics, jews, etc. .

    On another note , One of the least impressive forms of charity, is when one does so out of FEAR, or expectations of getting a BIGGER reward later on. It is actually a " self serving" form of giving / charity and is not done out of the goodness of ones heart/ soul. I like to call it " PHONY CHARITY" . This is the type of phoniness that religions create . It tries to pressure people into being good, thru use of fear or the promise you will get a bigger reward, for your charity . I like charity that is done from a good heart/ good soul frame of mind.

    Peace !
     
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  32. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    Why would God want food sacrifice?

    Sounds like the priest for conning everybody food.

    The story of Cain and Abel is basically saying that God or the priests prefer cooked meat over vegetables.
     
  33. bb28

    bb28 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    No, you don't understand. I came from hell. God saved me from it. Watch the video on the Muslim guy if you haven't already. God really saves people.

    http://www.goldismoney2.com/threads/this-country-is-dead.54465/

    Others "God's" do not save people.

    bb
     
  34. HardTruth

    HardTruth Silver Miner Seeker

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    I'm not sure a God wants anything, expects anything or demands anything from his creations. To demand worship, is truly a un-divine, faulty and narcissistic trait.
     
  35. 917601

    917601 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Just about every thought every man thinks about on a daily basis, or thinks about committing. Stealing, cheating, lying, murdering, laziness, envy, gossipping, anger, hating, addictions, greed, gluttony, intolerance, love of money.....none are worthy of redemption, thank the good Lord for providing everyone a Savior, but most importantly, thank the Lord for allowing you the freedom to choose your own eternal destination. I wised up awhile back and decided not to be seated in the Smoking section when I give up the ghost....choose wisely. Eternity is a very, very, very long time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
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  36. Son of Gloin

    Son of Gloin Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    Chuck Missler says, regarding the Bible, that "We don't believe prophecy because it's in the Bible. We believe the Bible because it's been unerringly right about prophecy."

    Plus, everything else you said in your post.
     
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  37. 917601

    917601 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Missler is one of the greats of our time. Not sure if he is the one who said, " God does not send anyone to hell, they choose to go there". How true.
     
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  38. TomD

    TomD It blowed up, y'all Platinum Bling

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    "They are all parasitic in nature. Humans , animals , insects . None of them can exist without extracting / taking energy from other sources, whether it be killing animals or taking fruit-vegetables from plants/ trees. "

    Hate to get all scientific on you but taking fruits & vegetables isn't parasitic. Fruits & vegetables are designed (or evolved, your pick) to be taken for the specific purpose of spreading the plant's seeds.
    The correct term is symbiosis.
     
  39. Bottom Feeder

    Bottom Feeder Hypophthalmichthys molitrix Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    But we love you anyhow michael
    :meditation:
    BF
     
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  40. Son of Gloin

    Son of Gloin Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    That is true. One thing God will never do is deny a human being his/her own free will. That's how important freedom is to our Creator.
     
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