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The Next Crash and taking a new Job??

Discussion in 'Historic Market Crashes' started by Vlad The Impaler, Aug 30, 2014.



  1. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    IN 2008 I lost my job at a lumber mill due to the housing market crash. I landed at a hospital in a department that sterilizes surgery instruments but due to being dumb as rocks or just having no experience in that area I was fired after three weeks, asked to stay on till they got some of their help back that was on leave and sent away with a small party. Strangest firing I ever heard of and the only job I was ever fired from.

    After being un employed for 3 months I went to work for Wal Mart three months into that I applied back at the hospital and was hired on the good recommendation of the department head who fired me. I joined the Environmental Services team. From then to now I have met my Goal of simply not having to have spend my small savings I saved while making a decent wage at the mill I was at. The hospital gig only pays me 11.24 an hour and that after 5 years. It's a 2% cost of living adjustment every year and at this rate I cannot save any money and I will never own my own house. I am just above broke with this JOB.

    Tuesday I have an interview at another Mill in the area I moved to after losing the job at the first Mill. When they saw I had experience their demeanor changed from dealing with some guy off the street to the looking me in the eye and being very nice. I got a call from them before I made it to work but could not call them back till the nest morning where as I suspected they wanted to interview me. I currently work with a gal in a building who's husband works at this mill already and the rumor is they will be starting a night shift soon. I like nights so that would be great and the mill would be keen to hire in experienced workers as I am for some of the positions. I will be starting as a laborer running a shovel and blow hose. The wage will be 14.35 an hour.


    Lots of pros and cons

    Great working conditions at the hospital. Climate controlled work place, I work around excellence (My own Department is another story, my department sends us to other departments to work for them. I work in a Cancer Center) Paid time off is generous and accumulates pretty quickly. So far as another economic Crash things would have to get pretty bad before I was ejected into un employment again but it's a dead end job and I am going no where fast in it.

    The New job will pay more but its harder work, outside in the heat and rain. I love the cold though. And you never know when I will be laid off when the market slumps or the next crash causes the mill to be scrapped out.

    The last one I worked at came really close to be scrapped out but the bank let it go for far less then the original owner owed on it and sold it for two million to a Fisherman from Seattle. It's running again but I was not asked to come back like the other guys were and I lived 60 miles away after the three years it took to re open. Some of the Machine operators called me the best clean up guy they mill ever had so my work was not the issue it was probably my outspoken politics and the fact I call a spade a spade. I started as a chain puller and bid into the mill as a clean up person then ran some sorters and other machines before being curtailed back to chain and clean up the cut lose. Some of the jobs in the last mill I worked, if they told me I was doing them permanently I would have preferred to be homeless. One messed up my left hand wrist a bit.

    Not sure what to do about a job change but I always play things safe and I feel like I should gamble. Any advice?
     
  2. argentos

    argentos Former Boat Owner Gold Chaser

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    Go with your gut feeling.
     
  3. JustPassinThru

    JustPassinThru Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Couple of thoughts.

    FIRST...work is NOT the place for politics. Probably you know that now. It has always been risky, but some gentle discussion and exploration USED to be okay. Not now; not when people are crazy in 57 varieties of ways...everything from the Stormfront types to the New Black Prancers; to the crazy preppers (not the rational ones) and the obamatons.

    Put a sock in it. You were valuable enough you didn't get actually fired; but when a reorganization came up, and it was easy and convenient to lock you out, that's what happened.

    Second. A bird in the hand...alla that. Sounds like you have a nice job. In coming months, climate-control is going to be a rare luxury, given what electric rates are going to do. Working in that in the heat is worth something.

    Working out of the cold, may be worth something - if not now, as you get older.

    Health care is always going to be there in some form. Even in economic collapse, people will still get sick and need care. Goobermint functionaries will not spend the money on EXPANDING facilities; but it would be suicidal to start SHUTTING them. And if by some miracle we get past Oh Bomb Ah Kair, the medical field will once again have legs.

    You don't mention what kind of mill; but MOST industries are now Enemies Of The State. Per Emperor Soetoro. So they'll come and go.

    I don't know, but it seems like BOTH have limited advancement potential. But right now is not the time you can really hope to advance, without a concrete workable plan to utilize rare and in-demand skills. Right now is the time to TREAD WATER.

    That's my estimation; but I may not have all the facts or be reading them right. Bottom line is, only you can choose what's right for you.
     
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  4. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I never discussed any politics at work but people read my letters to the Editor. They just hated that I was right I suppose. I warned what could happen in Iraq and the letter was pritined the day they pulled the statue of Sddam down. Made me look foolish but by 2007 I was right on the money. Or mis understood the letters since the news paper did a pretty bad job in editing most the time. I was against the war In Iraq in 2003 for example but not for the liberal reasons the conservative ones. I was also a californian working in Idaho. Who knows.

    The Mill is a lumber Mill! Those can close at the drop of a law suit with the enviro's or the Economy. Business seems to be booming. And right now at work we have a new management team that is outsourced and they don't belong anywhere near a hospital. Lack of leadership and favoritism started three weeks into their coming on. Standards went to hell and I can hardly believe the stuff they pull as if it does not matter. I always play to safe, I see others taking risks and making out well. Of the two old bosses they fired the director was a dirt bag but his supervisor was like gold. Ex air force NCO and on top of everything. He got thrown out with the bathwater with the director who was banging one of the employees on the clock and he was out of work for a few months but then was hired at the local jail as a deputy making way more then he did at the hospital. He's making out big time.

    As a laborer I can start at the mill for 14.35 but if I can make my way into the old position I used to work at the old mill it is paying just over 17.00 an hour. I won't get anywhere near that rate any way else.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  5. pitw

    pitw Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Does the mill run boilers? Spending free time getting a boilers ticket for advancement could help at the mill. I truly hate hospitals but you do what makes you happy. That after all is the only way to live life.
     
  6. dirt to oil

    dirt to oil Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    first year apprentices start at 22.56 plus 10% holiday pay in my trade with full benefits, dental , prescription meds ect

    there are two recent immigrants at my current work place one from India and one from Washington state

    both of them are very nice guys and in the next couple of years both of them will be making $100,000 plus a year

    go where the money is , it does not have to be here , but are you so in love with your current town that you could never leave.

    for most of us work will never be enjoyable , there just are not that many of those jobs to go around

    so the next best thing is to be paid well.

    think about it
     
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  7. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Depends where you are in life.


    If you are in your 20's vs 50's life means different things.


    Nothing wrong with the job you have now.


    You say it's 'dead end'? What would taking some classes do for you?

    Education always opens doors that weren't open before.

    A couple of classes might lead to a new adventure.
     
  8. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I am 46 and starting back at the mill will kill me for a month or two. I have gotten soft. Lost Muscle and gained weight. That is another thing I need a lifestyle change and to harden up a bit. Higher education would waste my money, to be honest. I have learning disabilities that I thought were behind me but then I got fired at the department that cleans the surgical instruments so I guess not. Was never good when it came to school work. I can read really well and I discovered I can write but that was about age 27 when I leaned to type. On my own that is.

    I did think about getting trained for a boiler room but there are a lot of guys out of work who used to do it, not sure how much the market can handle but that might be something to look into.

    I hate working in the rain but I also currently hate cleaning contaminated rooms. It's a PITA! I like working around medical staff. I admire them greatly. Hospitals are cheap however. They pay their cleaners less then industrial cleaners but rake in millions more then other places and pay their low level help slave wages. If you don't pay your people what they are worth someone else will.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  9. dirt to oil

    dirt to oil Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Vlad I do hope you find somewhere where you fit in , that at the very least pays you enough to live

    hoping the best for you

    dirt
     
  10. msolorio3

    msolorio3 Seeker Seeker

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    Have you thought about becoming a Licensed Vocational Nurse or Certified Nursing Assistant? I lost my job in 2009 and slowly worked my way back into a career, it involved taking twelve classes at the local university. Plus, I discovered that I have a learning disability too. I was given a note taker, granted permission to record lectures and additional time to take exams. It was a huge weight off my shoulders to realize that I'm not a dummy, I just need different strategies to study and learn the academic material. This year I was offered a position in a school district as a Speech therapist.
     
  11. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Nursing is not for me I am not much of a people person. I am no dummy either but maybe for math. If I don't like the subject matter or am not interested in it I can't do very well. When I interviewed for the first hospital job I told them I don't learn the fastest but make up for it once I do know what I am doing by normally being one of the better people on the work force. They seemed to forget that part when I was fired. I got the feeling the trainer did not like me and thought I was stupid so she made sure I failed was my gut feeling. When I sat down with her a voice in my head told me she was not there to help me through the training but to weed me out if she could. Even though I showed a lot of improvement on the first half of what I learned no one else but me really saw it. It was on the job training too or live. NO matter. Two people in the department told me I was not being given a chance and that the trainer was the problem. Another guy who's mother worked in my department, that is the guy who told me about this forum had some issues with the same trainer and she made sure he was fired too. Well it was a department of 98% women. I am rambling on sorry.

    Oh ya and I was given 5 working days to be up to speed in a work environment I had little experience in. Or expected to be up to speed by the end of Friday night and I was not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
  12. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    You can't get there from here.
    Find something that you like doing that has job opportunities and you can train for in your off work hours, or independently.
    Say welding.
    Give yourself a trade and get off the bottom of the ladder.
     
  13. silverbug22

    silverbug22 Seeker Seeker

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    ..and what field are you in?

    also what do the immigrant's job description from your workplace?

    just curious...

    thanks in advance..
     
  14. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Vlad........any advice I was going to give has already been given ( by pitw, dirt to oil, goldhedge, msolorio3 & gringott :thumbs_up: ) I can only add go with what you feel would be most secure for a while and spend some of your free time learning a trade that you feel you'd enjoy doing (as well as pay the bills) and get back into shape.

    Good luck with what ever you decide to do :beerglass:
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
  15. JustPassinThru

    JustPassinThru Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Okay...the age is an issue. And not just age discrimination.

    I just started a new job at 56. I've been a railroader 20 years, but this is a new way of organizing the crafts...as a locomotive engineer, I've had to do a LOT more physical labor than I have in the last 15. I like this outfit and I am basically trapped in the industry, to preserve my claim on my pension...but I'm starting to get scared that my old body may not be up to this.

    You need to consider that as well. At 46 you may be up for hard work and be able to get hard once again. How about in ten years?

    Which offers a better way out as you get older? Another poster indicated getting your certification for boiler operation or maintenance. That's a GOOD plan, if it's doable from within a lumber mill.

    Like I said...only you know all the variables; and only you know what you would be happier with and what would be intolerable. I wouldn't want to clean up blood and bedpans, either...in fact, I'd rather starve. But that's me; and a lot of people happily work with feces and gore for the pay, security, or satisfaction they get from helping those in need or in pain.

    Your move...and good luck.
     
  16. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I pretty much could not get a bead to stay on the metal when I welded in High School. The small engine I over hauled never started and the radio we made form a kit in electronics never worked. Sad but true. I kinds took a cue form that experiences and never got near them in the work field.

    A big mis conception about hospital house keepers is we handle gross stuff. We don't really, it's mild when we do. It's the Nursing staff's job to pick up the majority of solids, or puke or whatever. We are called in to then sanitize the area where any given spill has occurred. Once a patient in the ER barfed in a trash can so I pulled it and removed it. Washed the can out. I almost lost my lunch too but got it done. One time a nurse called me up, (damn male nurse too) to pick up a pile of something he should have picked up so I did not argue just did it. Since I had no idea what it was it made is easier to deal with. Of the three major body fluids puke is my weakness, then crap and blood is a cake walk unless it smells like crap. All this I experienced as a floater. Now where I am based the worst thing I see is a messy bathroom. NO big deal.

    Something funny I notice about Doctors, their bathrooms are never dirty in any way, as if they are super clean people.

    If I can put up with this job for ten years I will be doing good. Get my money or the house I wanna buy then get out. I bought a NEW SUV paid in full from the last mill job and have a savings that would see me through at least 4 years of un employment covering the basic bills. My inclination is to take the job if I am offered the position.

    Just wanted any words of causation if anyone had anything to say.
     
  17. dirt to oil

    dirt to oil Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    the guy from India is a b pressure welder

    the one from Washington state is an apprentice welder did landscaping before and he is 46 years old , he's not the oldest apprentice in this small shop he's 49 .

    an apprentice welder in a fab shop would only get to tack piping , along with preparing welds , rigging and any other dutys to make the shop run , pipe fitting is very hard on apprentice welders because the only welding we do must be done by a b pressure welder , so the apprentice must learn in spite of not being allowed to weld pipe

    I have posted before about the opportunity's in this current market in the oil sands

    any welder with a reasonable history would be able to come here and work , or pipe fitter for that matter, I'm a pipe fitter , a quick goggle search would let you know what trades need people here
    the oil sands is currently the largest capital project in the world clicking along at over 10 billion a year
    I've seen a lot of people from al over the world come to work here , but not that many Americans
     
  18. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Well I had an interview and it went well but that don't mean their other interviews did not also go well. I was told we'd know by Friday but when I heard nothing from them as it got later I called and was told they decision had not yet been made. Maybe they were busy with their shifts. I did not get a call later either telling me that either the guy who was hired got the call and the other applicants are not important so they will be told no dice next week or they were so busy the decision is being put off till Monday. I hope that is the case. I found out the starting pay is not 14.35 an hour it's 15.25 an hour to start and there will be over time until they bring their work force up to needed levels. Really hoping I get it now because I'd sell myself into slavery for less then the starting wage! ;) If not I know they will need people in the future and I'll pay them a personal visit once a month till I get hired.

    The gal I work with at my current job had a boyfriend who already works there and she made it sound like they got some lazy workers who can't handle some of the machine positions and that I might be put into one I have worked before while they move the slackers to clean up. But not sure what I can take as good info from her. She talks a lot. I was told by the company they were looking to fill one position and my co worker says everyone working there is on mandatory over time cleaning the place up because they don't have any clean up people. She seemed to think they would be filling a few positions. Who knows.
     
  19. argentos

    argentos Former Boat Owner Gold Chaser

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    My fingers are crossed for you, Vlad.
     
  20. Unca Walt

    Unca Walt Midas Member Midas Member

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    Vlad --

    Write up a "thank-you" note for the interview. HAND IT IN THE ENVELOPE personally to the interviewer if you can. Address it to the interviewer and hand it to the receptionist if you cannot get to the interviewer.

    I tell you this because I have hired those who did just that. It is a surprisingly effective technique to move you up the "short list."

    Lissen to yer Unca and DO IT TODAY. Do not wait.

    Good luck.
     
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  21. fat panther

    fat panther Silver Member Silver Miner

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    To help advance in any job, find what the boss is challenged at or hates and learn to do/assist that job for him/her. Your education is obvious benefit and guess who the supervisor will what to take along as they advance.

    Overall, you have gotten a lot of better advice from others here, and I wish you all the best.

    And by the way, there is no way you're dumber than box of rocks. I'm truly impressed by your writing skills. Maybe you could help at whatever position you take with the mountain of paperwork (proceedures, check lists, etc) required in today's world.

    Best wishes
     
  22. wallew

    wallew Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Generally speaking, if an offer was made on Friday, they will NEVER tell the other candidates, because the person they made the offer TO, may not accept it.

    Then they will go to the next person on the list.

    I got my second degree (Associate Degree as a gunsmith) when I was 46. I started back to school at 45. I worked the next 15 years or so as a gunsmith, mainly for myself.

    I never made the same money I made in my first career, computers. But I was always busy and very happy at the work.

    Plus I gained a new set of skills. In computers, I had to pretty much use my mind. As a gunsmith, I pretty much had to learn to use my hands. It was a set of skills I wanted to develop.

    And never underestimate your skills.

    Plus I will tell you that as you age, your physical abilities will slowly start to degrade. It's just the aging process. Things just do not seem to work quite as well as they used to, OR they work but danged if you don't hurt afterward, which I never did until I turned 50. I'm now 61.

    I wish you well. The biggest challenges are two fold. Make enough money so that you can provide yourself with the basics of food, shelter, transportation and entertainment. Second is to BE HAPPY with where you are in your life. Because if you are happy with what you are doing, it won't seem like a job. If you are NOT HAPPY? EVERY DAY WILL SEEM LIKE PRISON.

    It's your choice. And sometimes, changing not only professions, but locations is necessary. I went from Portland, Oregon in contract computer work, to Denver, Colorado to learn to be a gunsmith. ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE WHAT IS BEST FOR YOU.

    Good luck.
     
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  23. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    NO call monday and by Tuesday I was kinda figuring they hired another but the gal at work who's boyfriend works there said the EPA was inspecting and that it might push things back. Sure enough I got a call Tuesday and they told me the bosses were behind and I would know this coming Friday.
     
  24. Danubian

    Danubian Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Dúfajme, más šťastie, Vlado.
     
  25. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I got no call so I should conclude they hired another. Maybe next time. Years ago a guy could get fired from one mill and have a job at one on the other side of town the next day. America.....
     
  26. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Sorry man, I wish you the best in your search.
     
  27. argentos

    argentos Former Boat Owner Gold Chaser

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    What Ensoniq said.
     
  28. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    NO big deal, I always felt I was brought to the hospital for a reason and it must be that I am supposed to stay sometime longer.
     
  29. Jodster

    Jodster Silver Member Silver Miner

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    to make $100k a year you would have to make @$50 an hour. at $23/hr as an apprentice, you only make @45K a year working 40 hours a week . .
     
  30. dirt to oil

    dirt to oil Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    49.66 including holiday and vacation pay (10%) plus benefits pension etc ( about $10 per hour)

    1st year apprentice starts at 50% wage and full benefits

    double time on sat sun and holidays and for overtime in excess of 10 hrs a day

    overtime is where you can really make some dough I have made close to 7,000 per week working 7 days 11 hrs a day including 100 per day sub

    upper supervision typically general foreman on some projects will work a 13 1/2 hr day so they can do a change over with the other shift, with their 7.50 bump in pay they can earn more than 8 G a week , of course you cant set that pace for ever , but 200 to 250 k is not unheard of
    especially in the mines up north
     
  31. MrLucky

    MrLucky Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Don't lose faith, Vlad. I was in a similar spot once. They told me it was between me and another guy. After no call came, I came to find out they gave it to the other guy. A few weeks later, they called and asked if I was still available. I said yes, and was hired. After being there awhile, I asked around "what happened to the other guy"? "He left after a few weeks for another job" came the reply.

    So don't lose faith. In the meantime, you still have a job.
     
  32. Veli Hopea

    Veli Hopea New Member

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    The recent interesting story: http://financialflood.blogspot.com.tr/2014/09/exclusive-interview-with-james-rickards.html

    First I suggest you to read this:

    So, it seems that they expect a collapse and they have blurted it out.

    How bad would it be then? What should we expect?

    Quite bad. Think about parents who keep their money in the most reliable bank they know. One day, when they need to get some cash out to buy some food for their children and pay some bills, they cannot get any money from the bank.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  33. GOLDZILLA

    GOLDZILLA Harvurd Koleej Jeenyus Midas Member

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    Maybe you could start your own mill while still keeping the old job?
     
  34. hoarder

    hoarder Banned

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    Most hospitals require employees to get a flu shot. That right there would be enough reason for me to take a sawmill job instead.
     
    historyrepete likes this.
  35. wallew

    wallew Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    How will you feel about being a 'hospital cleaner' when EBOLA becomes a real problem, even in IDAHO?

    Just asking. Not that a job at the mill is by any means a safe bet, once the economy goes south? But would your hospital job survive an economic crisis? If it did, would YOUR job still be safe?

    Things are going to get really bad. Where do you want to be when that happens?

    You have many questions to ask yourself. WE ALL DO. Things will get a lot worse before they get better.


    I gotta stop watching movies like 'The Book of Eli'...
     
  36. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Unless you can become a professional in the hospital or open your own medical/hazmat cleaning business, then do not figure improving your lifestyle. Take a risk for an extra $125/week with possibilities of making more in an industry you already know. Those are your choices.
     
  37. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    After 4 or five weeks I have still heard nothing. I was on 12 hour shifts for almost a month so no time to care during that period. I did hear another guy quit but nothing more. I know well I could get hired even if I was not the first pick.

    How do I feel about Ebola and the hospital? Well I am not dealing with it if the hospital is going to continue to be cheap. We will need fully incapsulated PPE. Decontamination on exist of the room and decontamination of the body then a good shower. I doubt they will want to pay for all that time.

    I just wrote the company that handles regulated medical waste for us,

    <<To whom it may concern,

    I work in environmental Services at a Cancer Center that your company services. I notice that on occasion some of the bio buckets smell really bad. Putrid. Due to the emerging Ebola threat and the fact these buckets make their rounds to various hospitals Etc. I wanted to know if they are steam cleaned, sanitized or in any way disinfected?

    Just as Air planes can spread something like Ebola so could these Bio buckets. If I was to be infected by exposure to a bucket with Ebola on it or in it, contract it then come down with it, we in environmental serves are in a department where managers expect us to be on the job sick or not so for a short time conceivably I could expose patients to Ebola before understanding I have it and seeking treatment and Isolation. This would be bad for the nation as we are seeing in the news already.

    What are the dangers and is Stericycle addressing them? >>



    I feel that if the Hospital does all it can I may stay on the job because someone has to do it. I am on the front lines of infection control. To think I would run from the duty would be as cowardly as a Soldier running away before deployment.

    However if the hospital is going to be cheap and stupid, you know, you can't fix stupid. I will be excusing myself.
     
    Argentium likes this.
  38. RUSH2112

    RUSH2112 Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Good for you Vlad for showing common sense.

    It's clear common sense is lacking even though there is a lot of knowledge about the disease itself.
     
  39. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    If you read the news paper today or now yesterday you might have seen where the nurses at the hospital treating the now dead lying African that they have had a nurses union address the issues of breach of protocol setting the record straight. In short there was no protocol just as I knew. They followed what they had but it was not near enough. For three days they treated the guy with no were near sufficient PPE like a flimsy gowns, masks with shields, double gloves and maybe booties and a bonnet is they were lucky. Better stuff was brought in three days later and that is a crying shame right there that someone like a supervisor did not go to a private company ASAP and get something better they waited for normal supply chain to get something in. So the hospital is doing and saying what any hospital would, whatever it can say to cover it's ass and deflect from the fact that is dropped the ball.

    They should have come out and admitted they were ill prepared and explained that it was to be expected they were not because that is reality. I guess the CEO does not want to resign. It is no wonder the nurses got sick and it will be a miracle is no one else does in the next few days.

    The nurses argued for better handling of the patient but management butted heads with them. The nurses had to pressure their supervisor to get the Ebola patient out of a room full of patients and into isolation. That they stayed on the job and did what they do is almost on par with the Russian Firefighters staying on station at Chernobyl.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2014
  40. Vlad The Impaler

    Vlad The Impaler Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    BY the way any one have any educated guesses on when the next and final crash will be?
     

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