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Total Government And Personal Debt In The U.S. Has Hit 41 Trillion Dollars

Discussion in 'Topical Discussions (In Depth)' started by Scorpio, Aug 3, 2017.



  1. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Total Government And Personal Debt In The U.S. Has Hit 41 Trillion Dollars ($329,961.34 Per Household)
    [​IMG] By Michael Snyder, on July 26th, 2017


    [​IMG]

    We are living in the greatest debt bubble in the history of the world. In 1980, total government and personal debt in the United States was just over the 3 trillion dollar mark, but today it has surpassed 41 trillion dollars. That means that it has increased by almost 14 times since Ronald Reagan was first elected president. I am searching for words to describe how completely and utterly insane this is, but I am coming up empty. We are slowly but surely committing national suicide, and yet most Americans don’t even understand what is happening.

    According to 720 Global, total government debt plus total personal debt in the United States was just over 3 trillion dollars in 1980. That broke down to $38,552 per household, and that figure represented 79 percent of median household income at the time.

    Today, total government debt plus total personal debt in the United States has blown past the 41 trillion dollar mark. When you break that down, it comes to $329,961.34 per household, and that figure represents 584 percent of median household income.

    If anyone can make a good argument that we are not in very serious debt trouble, I would love to hear it.

    And remember, the figures above don’t even include corporate debt. They only include government debt on the federal, state and local levels, and all forms of personal debt.

    So do you have $329,961.34 ready to pay your share of the debt that we have accumulated?

    Nobody that I know could write that kind of a check. The truth is that as a nation we are flat broke. The only way that the game can keep going is for all of us to borrow increasingly larger sums of money, but of course that is not sustainable by any definition.

    Eventually we are going to slam into a wall and the game will be over.

    One of my pet peeves is the national debt. Our politicians spend money in some of the most ridiculous ways imaginable, and yet no matter how much we complain about it nothing ever seems to change.

    For example, the U.S. military actually spends 42 million dollars a year on Viagra.

    Yes, you read that correctly.

    42 million of your tax dollars are being spent on Viagra every year.

    And overall spending on “erectile dysfunction medicines” each year comes to a grand total of 84 million dollars

    According to data from the Defense Health Agency, DoD actually spent $41.6 million on Viagra — and $84.24 million total on erectile dysfunction prescriptions — last year.

    And since 2011, the tab for drugs like Viagra, Cialis and Levitra totals $294 million — the equivalent of nearly four U.S. Air Force F-35 Joint Strike Fighters.

    Is this really where our spending on “national defense” should be going? We are nearly 20 trillion dollars in debt, and yet we continue to spend money like there is no tomorrow. For much more on the exploding size of our national debt and the very serious implications that this has for our future, please see my previous article entitled “Would You Like To Steal 128 Million Dollars?”

    I didn’t think that our debt bubble could ever possibly get this big, but I didn’t think that our stock market bubble could ever possibly get quite get this large either. For a few moments, I would like for you to consider a list of facts about this stock market bubble that was recently published by Zero Hedge

    • The S&P 500 Cyclically Adjusted Price to Earnings (CAPE) valuation has only been greater on one occasion, the late 1990s. It is currently on par with levels preceding the Great Depression.
    • CAPE valuation, when adjusted for the prevailing economic growth trend, is more overvalued than during the late 1920’s and the late 1990’s. (LINK)
    • S&P 500 Price to Sales Ratio is at an all-time high
    • Total domestic corporate profits (w/o IVA/CCAdj) have grown at an annualized rate of .097% over the last five years. Prior to this period and since 2000, five year annualized profit growth was 7.95%. (note- period included two recessions) (LINK)
    • Over the last ten years, S&P 500 corporations have returned more money to shareholders via share buybacks and dividends than they have earned.
    • The top 200 S&P 500 companies have pension shortfalls totaling $382 billion and corporations like GE spent more on share buybacks ($45b) than the size of their entire pension shortfall ($31b) which ranks as the largest in the S&P 500. (LINK)
    • Using data back to 1987, the yield to maturity on high-yield (non-investment grade) debt is in the 3rd percentile. Per Prudential as cited in the Wall Street Journal, yields on high-yield debt, adjusted for defaults, are now lower than those of investment grade bonds. Currently, the yield on the Barclays High Yield Index is below the expected default rate.
    • Implied equity and U.S. Treasury volatility has been trading at the lowest levels in over 30 years, highlighting historic investor complacency. (LINK)
    Our financial markets are far more primed for a crash than they were in 2008.

    The only times in our entire history that are even comparable are the late 1920s just before the infamous crash of 1929 and the late 1990s just before the dotcom bubble burst.

    A whole lot of people out there seem to be entirely convinced that things will somehow be different this time. They seem to believe that the laws of economics no longer apply and that we will never pay a significant price for decades of exceedingly foolish decisions.

    Overall, the world is now 217 trillion dollars in debt. Earlier this year, Bill Gross raised eyebrows when he said that “our highly levered financial system is like a truckload of nitro glycerin on a bumpy road”, and I very much agree with him.

    There is no way that this is going to end well. Yes, central bank manipulation may be enough to keep the party going for a little while longer, but eventually the whole thing is going to come crashing down in a disaster of unprecedented magnitude.

    Michael Snyder is a Republican candidate for Congress in Idaho’s First Congressional District, and you can learn how you can get involved in the campaign on his official website. His new book entitled “Living A Life That Really Matters” is available in paperback and for the Kindle on Amazon.com.

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/...t-41-trillion-dollars-329961-34-per-household
     
  2. TRYNEIN

    TRYNEIN Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Remember, you can NOT be forced into Involuntary Servitude



    “For purposes of criminal prosecution under § 241 or § 1584, the term "involuntary servitude" necessarily means a condition of servitude in which the victim is forced to work for the defendant by the use or threat of physical restraint or physical injury or by the use or threat of coercion through law or the legal process. This definition encompasses cases in which the defendant holds the victim in servitude by placing him or her in fear of such physical restraint or injury or legal coercion.”
    UNITED STATES V. KOZMINSKI, 487 U. S. 931 (1988)




    ...........................................................................

    A major purpose behind the 16th amendment was to give Congress authority to enforce private law collections of revenue. Congress had the plenary power to collect income taxes arising from government granted privileges long before the 16th Amendment was ratified, and the amendment was unnecessary, except to give Congress the added power to enforce collections under private law, i.e. income from whatever source.

    So, the Fed got its amendment and its private income tax, which is a banker’s dream but a nightmare for everyone else. Through the combined operation of the Fed and HJR-192, the United States pays exorbitant interest whenever it uses its own money deposited with the Fed, and the people pay outrageous income taxes for the privilege of living and working in their own country, robbed of their wealth and separated from their rights, laboring under a tax system written by a cabal of loan shark bankers and rubber stamped by a spineless Congress.


    Congress has the power to abolish the Federal Reserve System and thus destroy the private credit system.
    However, the people have it within their power to strip the Fed of its powers, rescind private credit and get the bankers to pay off the National Debt should Congress fail to act.

    The key to all this is 12 USC 411, which declares that Federal Reserve notes shall be redeemed in lawful money at any Federal Reserve Bank. Lawful money is defined as all the coins, notes, bills, bonds and securities of the United States. Julliard v. Greenman, 110 US 421, 448 (1884): whereas public money is the lawful money declared by Congress as a legal tender for debts (31 USC 5103), 521 F.2d 629 (1974).


    Anyone can present Federal Reserve notes to any Federal Reserve Bank and demand redemption in public money — i.e. legal tender United States notes and coins. A Federal Reserve note is a fixed obligation or evidence of indebtedness which pledges redemption (12 USC 411) in public money to the note holder.


    The Fed maintain a ready supply of United States notes in hundred dollar denominations for redemption purposes should it be required, and coins are available to satisfy claims for smaller amounts. However, should the general public decide to redeem large amounts of private credit for public money, a financial melt-down within the Fed would quickly occur.


    The process works like this: Suppose $1000 in Federal Reserve notes are presented for redemption in public money. To raise $1000 in public money the Fed must surrender US Bonds in that amount to the Treasury in exchange for the public money demanded (assuming that the Fed had no public money on hand). In so doing, $1000 of the National Debt would be paid off by the Fed and thus canceled.

    Can you imagine the result if large amounts of Federal Reserve notes were redeemed on a regular ongoing basis? Private credit would be withdrawn from circulation and replaced with public money, and with each turning of the screw the Fed would be obliged to pay off more of the National Debt. Should the Fed refuse to redeem its notes in public money, then the fiction that private credit is used voluntarily would become unsustainable.


    If the use of private credit becomes compulsory, then the obligation to make a return of income is voided. If the Fed is under no obligation to redeem its notes, then no one has an obligation to make a return of income. It is that simple!
    Federal Reserve notes are not money and cannot be tendered when money is demanded:
    105 So. 305 (1925).



    Moreover, the Ninth Circuit rejected the argument that a $50 Federal Reserve note be redeemed in gold or silver coin after specie coinage had been rescinded but upheld the right of the note holder to redeem his note in current public money (31 USC 392 rev., 5103): 524 F.2d 629 (1974), 12 USC 411.
     
  3. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Platinum Bling

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    Sometimes I get confused with this money talk. I like the idea of canceling the debt with lawful/public money I really do.

    I read an article yesterday? Anywhoo I found it understandable and for me that is something. I don't know if I can bring it here by a cut and paste but I can put the link here of that I am fairly sure.

    Link: http://katehon.com/article/quality-money

    Give it a read.
     
  4. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    But, in a debt based society, in a debt based world, it would appear we're Winning!

    Only thing I know is when the bubble bursts, on any of it, it'll be much better to be liquid
     
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  5. Cigarlover

    Cigarlover Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Wow seems so easy. Please do this and let us know how it works out.
     
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  6. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Platinum Bling

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    You are just a wealth of enthusiasms.
     
  7. Cigarlover

    Cigarlover Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    And the current public money issssssss.... Federal reserve notes!!.. hahahahahaha.
     
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  8. gnome

    gnome Platinum Bling Platinum Bling

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    "Is that a lot?" ~MarketNeutral
     
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  9. gnome

    gnome Platinum Bling Platinum Bling

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    Debt is one thing. The unfunded liabilities of govt are over $100T ... $888,000 per taxpayer.

    Unfunded liabilities appear to have been shrinking since 2009 or so, but I'm unsure why.
     
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  10. gliddenralston

    gliddenralston Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Been waiting for a debt implosion since about ww1, amazing the balancing act tptb have.
     
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  11. jimswift

    jimswift Seeker

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    From the Treasury website:
    https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/faqs/Currency/Pages/legal-tender.aspx

    What are Federal Reserve notes and how are they different from United States notes?

    Federal Reserve notes are legal tender currency notes. The twelve Federal Reserve Banks issue them into circulation pursuant to the Federal Reserve Act of 1913. A commercial bank belonging to the Federal Reserve System can obtain Federal Reserve notes from the Federal Reserve Bank in its district whenever it wishes. It must pay for them in full, dollar for dollar, by drawing down its account with its district Federal Reserve Bank.


    Federal Reserve Banks obtain the notes from our Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP). It pays the BEP for the cost of producing the notes, which then become liabilities of the Federal Reserve Banks, and obligations of the United States Government.


    Congress has specified that a Federal Reserve Bank must hold collateral equal in value to the Federal Reserve notes that the Bank receives. This collateral is chiefly gold certificates and United States securities. This provides backing for the note issue. The idea was that if the Congress dissolved the Federal Reserve System, the United States would take over the notes (liabilities). This would meet the requirements of Section 411, but the government would also take over the assets, which would be of equal value. Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien on all the assets of the Federal Reserve Banks, and on the collateral specifically held against them.


    Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver or any other commodity, and receive no backing by anything This has been the case since 1933. The notes have no value for themselves, but for what they will buy. In another sense, because they are legal tender, Federal Reserve notes are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy.


    What are United States Notes and how are they different from Federal Reserve notes?

    United States Notes (characterized by a red seal and serial number) were the first national currency, authorized by the Legal Tender Act of 1862 and began circulating during the Civil War. The Treasury Department issued these notes directly into circulation, and they are obligations of the United States Government. The issuance of United States Notes is subject to limitations established by Congress. It established a statutory limitation of $300 million on the amount of United States Notes authorized to be outstanding and in circulation. While this was a significant figure in Civil War days, it is now a very small fraction of the total currency in circulation in the United States.


    Both United States Notes and Federal Reserve Notes are parts of our national currency and both are legal tender. They circulate as money in the same way. However, the issuing authority for them comes from different statutes. United States Notes were redeemable in gold until 1933, when the United States abandoned the gold standard. Since then, both currencies have served essentially the same purpose, and have had the same value. Because United States Notes serve no function that is not already adequately served by Federal Reserve Notes, their issuance was discontinued, and none have been placed in to circulation since January 21, 1971.


    The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 authorized the production and circulation of Federal Reserve notes. Although the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) prints these notes, they move into circulation through the Federal Reserve System. They are obligations of both the Federal Reserve System and the United States Government. On Federal Reserve notes, the seals and serial numbers appear in green.

    United States notes serve no function that is not already adequately served by Federal Reserve notes. As a result, the Treasury Department stopped issuing United States notes, and none have been placed into circulation since January 21, 1971.

    [​IMG]
     
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  12. TRYNEIN

    TRYNEIN Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    [​IMG]


    Well, obviously you have a comprehension problem.

    The court openly admits that the NOTE and PUBLIC MONEY are 2 different items



    If the use of private credit becomes compulsory, then the obligation to make a return of income is voided. If the Fed is under no obligation to redeem its notes, then no one has an obligation to make a return of income. It is that simple! Federal Reserve notes are not money and cannot be tendered when money is demanded:

    105 So. 305 (1925).


    “Federal Reserve Bank notes, and other notes constituting a part of common currency of country, are recognized as good tender for money, unless specially objected to."
    MacLeod v. Hoover (1925), 159 La. 244, 105 S. 305.
     
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  13. jimswift

    jimswift Seeker

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    Surely, the red & green seal has to be significant?

    "essentially the same purpose" means they aren't the same specie, right?

    "US Notes...The Treasury Department issued these notes directly into circulation.......Federal Reserve notes represent a first lien"

    Question: Who are the shareholders that own the 12 Federal Reserve Banks?
     
  14. TRYNEIN

    TRYNEIN Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    The FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE has the seal of the TREASURY AND the seal of the FEDERAL RESERVE on it and the UNITED STATES NOTE only has the seal of the TREASURY on it.

    By having BOTH seals on the FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE, that signifies the DUAL purpose of the note.

    I use my stamp right over the top of the FED RES seal
     
  15. Cigarlover

    Cigarlover Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I don't think I have a comprehension problem. What is the current public money? Federal reserve notes.

    This is some legal idiot who thinks he knows something posting useless info on the internet. Using a court case from 1884 and then combining that with 31 USC 5103. Lawful money in 1884 was different than lawful money of 1974. United states notes haven't been printed since 1971.
    So by all means run down to the federal reserve bank with your 1000 and demand public money in exchange for them. They will smile and hand you 1000 in federal reserve notes.

    From 1925 when gold and silver were public money.
    Stop believing everything you read on the internet or at the very least use some common sense and break it down like I just did.
    You dont have to take my word for it. By all means run down and cash in your federal reserve notes. Then you can take your real money to your bank and exchange it for more federal reserve notes and just keep doing that all day long. Hell you can single handedly pay off the national debt. :):).

    Oh and one last thing, the federal reserve banks deal with other banks and not with the general public.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
  16. Hystckndle

    Hystckndle Daguerreotype Fanatic Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    Semantics everywhere.
    IMHO " public money " is WHATEVER the economy uses to commence day to day life.
    Now, that being said,
    Seems to me that red seal notes and whats left of the remaining Treasury issuance..., nickles, dimes, quarters, cheesy non copper pennies...and don't forget bonds
    Is We The Peoples.
    Bitcoin, Quatloos, Digits, FRNs, small pieces of salami, cocoa beans...poker chips...whats the dif !?!?

    As far as the debt...
    Ehhh...
    Pffft..I am rapidly moving into the land of
    IDGAF
    I mean....Why Worry ???
     
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  17. Bigjon

    Bigjon Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter ++

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    FRN's are elastic money, they are expandable according to the fractional reserve rules.

    US Notes are just that, nothing else, nonelastic money.

    The law requires remedy when the law takes one form of law away. If we are forced into the use of credit based money, it is not lawful.

    The remedy is redeeming lawful money.
     
  18. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Platinum Bling

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    IDGAF

    hum? I Don't Got A Future?
     
  19. TRYNEIN

    TRYNEIN Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    LOL...

    Just because FRN's are the most circulated currency in the world doesn't change the fact that they are Private Credit...

    AND, the court decisions are still just as relevant today as they were back then
     
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  20. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    We need to reissue Red Seal Notes
    Seigniorage is a good thing for us taxpayers
    We make a profit at that point and literally do not incur a debt to anyone other than to ourselves
    as we don't have to pay it back, we just need to produce for one another and keep the velocity of our money up

    No recall of any money is necessary, no debasement required

    Offer them to the Federal Reserve Board and buy back all of our bonds and simply walk away
    or
    Just tell the Fed to go fuck themselves and we simply walk away

    Seriously, if the US had the courage and was in a bit stronger position, as in, not so divided, we could literally walk away from the Fed and there would be nothing they could do

    They don't have an army or anything

    If the US were serious, it would switch to dollar coins right away and even begin to make $5 coins
    Get rid of the $1 the $2 and the $5 FRN, right away and the debt would begin to shrink the moment we started
     
  21. Howdy

    Howdy Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Do we let them simply walk away?
     
  22. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    You mean like Hillary and Barack?

    IDK, I'm sure there are even angles in that
    Let's see

    O.K.
    How about putting up for bid the privilege to have one of them in a room, alone, for 2 minutes
    Two minutes only with a two minute break in between
    Could probably get a few to participate until there would be the need for a much longer break period

    Hmmm
    How about, the highest bidder gets to spray them down with a water hose, a real fire hose
    Should be able to make a few bucks on that

    Let your imagination run wild

    Nancy Pelosi? High bidder

    Seriously, why is it, in Taiwan, caning is permitted if the problem is a social one

    How about John Podesta?
    How much would he generate?

    All of these funds could be used to pay down the debt while our country once again, cleans out the swamp

    History has shown, these methods work and as we're all socially conscience and all that, we could even put it on pay per view
     
  23. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    FRN's are private credit which is why there is interest on its use.

    It's not useless info. When was that court case overturned? There is no statute of limitations on a ruling. Those court cases unless challenged and overturned are the ultimate law of the land.



    How ya doin there, CG? Boy, it's good to be back :^)
     
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  24. Juristic Person

    Juristic Person They drew first blood Platinum Bling

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    I guess it depends on what you think "the US" is a representation of.

    I look at it is the current system is working fine for the US...at our expense.
     
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  25. Buck

    Buck Fabian Society Gold Chaser

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    The US is a representation of the collective voices of 50 States, towards the world
    The US is a mediator and partial facilitator towards State Issues, as with the settling of disputes and towards social "expansion" as in infrastructure.
    Infrastructure that assists the 50 States with the goal of strengthening them, individually and collectively

    It was never meant to be much more than that and a few other small things, things which only assist the 50 States, not to hinder any of them

    It's been stolen from us, the collective US and we've been led to believe it's "always been this way" and we all know that's a lie

    eh, same song second verse

    Still amazes me the "news" is telling me today, my dog and cat produce carbon piles
    LOL

    Wonder if any of these "genius'" have any plans on what to do with all these carbon piles

    THAT'S WHAT WE'VE BEEN DENIGRATED TO
    and that's NOT the US
     
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  26. Cigarlover

    Cigarlover Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    They are the law of the land unless new laws are created that overturn them. Look at the Polk decision in 1895. Then congress passed the 16th amendment and although that didnt really give them the power to tax us directly, they told everyone it did and that was enough. It was only in the last 10 years or so that the IRS took that off of their website.
    In 1874 there was no such thing as the federal reserve or their notes. We can argue all day long about how or why things changed but the bottom line is none of us, unless we are bankers, are walking into any federal reserve to demand US dollars in exchange for federal reserve notes.

    Why do we have a federal reserve at all and pay them interest? Congress could easily just print whatever money they want interest free and no one would ever have to pay taxes.
     
  27. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    The US needs to issue $10k gold coins. That will pay the debt off faster.
     
  28. michael59

    michael59 heads up-butts down Platinum Bling

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    20 years logging
    Location:
    on the low side of corporate Oregon
    I just can't take it any more. The fact that $500 and up were quietly withdrawn from circulation means that frn's are privet money. They posit that these were withdrawn because of bad guys but really the bad guys are the ones that took them out of circulation.

    in a way that conforms to or is permitted or recognized by the law:/gain or regain possession of (something) in exchange for payment

    now the above is Lawfully Redeemed as per redeeming money. So how does one redeem something by using the same specie as it? Can't be done unless redeem means getting something back because of bad performance or making amends or to compensate so the only thing that fits the bill is gain or regain possession of a thing. To gain something is to acquire the thing and then some.

    I gained in my cattle business because my herd grew. That is a gain and so is interest. So to lawfully redeem money means it went somewhere and to gain on it means it grew, somehow/someway.

    So then I ask myself who is getting the gain off of this money. It sure ain't me, that is for sure, because when money lands in my hands it picks up so much velocity it breaks the speed of light; Yeah makes time stand still it does.

    Anywhoo, every one knows that what a dime used to purchase 80 cents purchases now or there about. So Money is not gaining on anything it is in fact diminishing. hey all in all I would agree with every one pursuant to inflation and all that jazz but the fact remains the coins and the paper carry specific denominated amounts. So as I see it maybe it is time to lawfully redeem the money but it cannot be redeemed by using it as the thing that redeems it.

    I guess that is about all I got but for some reason I can't shut my mouth till I put this out there: If in fact the money we have has lost value and cannot be gained on then our monetary system is just going to crash. And, the way I see it, we are way over due and only dominance will keep this from happening.
     

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