1. Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
    Dismiss Notice
  2. There are no markets
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Week of 6/24/2017 Closing prices & Chg Over Last Wk---- Gold $1256.40 Silver $16.64 Oil $43.01 USD $96.94
  4. "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"
    Dismiss Notice

Trump marijuana.

Discussion in 'Politics Forum (Local/National/World)' started by Mujahideen, Feb 24, 2017.



  1. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Likes Received:
    12,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Silver stacker
    Location:
    America!
    Washington, D.C. – White House spokesman Sean Spicer dropped a bombshell on Thursday when he said that states, where recreational marijuana is currently legal, will be subject to “greater enforcement” of federal law under the new Trump administration.

    Interestingly, this position strikes a drastically different tone than when the White House signaled the importance of states rights’ in their new policy regarding transgender bathrooms in public schools.

    When asked about the rollback of Obama administration rules on bathroom and locker room access for transgender kids in schools, White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer said,

    “The president believes it’s a states’ rights issue.”

    Incredibly, during the same briefing, Spicer signaled the Justice Department is looking at “greater enforcement” of federal laws against sales of recreational marijuana, setting up potential showdowns with the eight states where it is now legal.

    The lack of consistency regarding states’ rights is nothing less than mind-blowing, yet when looking at it through a strategic lens it makes perfect sense. The Trump administration doesn’t actually care about states rights – but rather about aligning the administration’s policy with what they perceive as their base of support — social conservatives. This move will almost certainly enrage the large contingent of libertarians that supported Trump in his run for the White House. However, that rage remains to be seen.

    "There’s a big difference between [medical marijuana] and recreational marijuana and I think that when you see something like the opioid addiction crisis blossoming in so many states around this country, the last thing we should be encouraging people ― there’s still a federal law that we need to abide by when it comes to recreational marijuana and other drugs of that nature,” Spicer said.

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cannabis-crackdown-states-rights-myth/
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2017
    bemac, searcher and Ensoniq like this.
  2. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Likes Received:
    12,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Silver stacker
    Location:
    America!
    Any sort of crackdown from drug warrior Sessions in the recreational legal states will not only fail, but it will blow up in the governments face.
     
    gnome, searcher, mtnman and 2 others like this.
  3. sandblaster

    sandblaster Silver Member Silver Miner Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    94
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    PNW
    Don't ask, don't tell
     
    mayhem, skychief and Aurumag like this.
  4. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    11,252
    Likes Received:
    8,854
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Florida
    I am a huge fan, but Trump should think about Executive Order 420 to legalize it. I don't like drunks or potheads, but it's the right thing to do.
     
    mtnman, Silvergun, arminius and 3 others like this.
  5. Howdy

    Howdy Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,005
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Did anyone think Trump would be different than the rest?
     
  6. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,363
    Likes Received:
    2,281
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Data Architect, Systems Engineer, Business Owner,
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Trump will use his influence with DEA to remove from schedule 1 drug list, using the medical needs as an excuse. After that, he'll let the States decide their fate. In other words, a win-win for Trump.
     
    mtnman and Aurumag like this.
  7. edsl48

    edsl48 Silver Member Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,167
    Likes Received:
    1,396
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Another War
    War on Drugs
    War on Poverty
    War in the Mid East
    Do these so called wars ever accomplish anything beyond spending bundles of money?
    Seriously...we need to quit funding so called wars that accomplish noting more than spending billions of dollars,
     
    gnome, bemac, Uncle and 3 others like this.
  8. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    23,131
    Likes Received:
    30,285
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Agree, even though I don't have any use for it either. If alcohol is legal and taxed pot should be the same.

    .
     
    Zed, gnome, mayhem and 3 others like this.
  9. Eyebone

    Eyebone Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,183
    Likes Received:
    1,998
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Seattle
    Big mistake.

    Drop all federal control of mary jane .

    Let the weak minded 'toke' up.

    I have to say, downtown Seattle smells like an army of skunks has invaded.

    Wouldn't touch it for the world myself.
     
  10. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Messages:
    6,233
    Likes Received:
    9,126
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Free Marketeer
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Haven't we been down the prohibition road once before?

    This smells like Sessions. Let's see if this was a trial balloon or a real intention

    You can't "dismantle the administrative state" when you maintain the drug war folly

    Count me among the disappointed Libertarians
     
  11. Aurumag

    Aurumag Dimly lit. Highly reflective Midas Member Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    7,069
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Lightwave Jockey
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    Being a drunk pot-head myself, I greatly resemble that remark.

    Of course, I do both for purely medical reasons, so I am not the least bit worried, but I have to admit that MJ was WAY more fun to obtain and partake when it was totally illegal.
     
    Zed, gnome and mayhem like this.
  12. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    11,252
    Likes Received:
    8,854
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Florida

    I noticed being straight that stoners and drunks would get sloppy in their thinking and behavior. I ended up babysitting so many and being impacted by their shrapnel in my lifetime that I have reached a limit to my patience. It is easier to simply avoid them and their self-destructive behavior. Not all are, but most of them are.
     
  13. Thecrensh

    Thecrensh Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2013
    Messages:
    2,934
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Like it or not, the decision to use pot is a personal one. It's an exercise of freedom in my book.
     
    Alton, gnome, arminius and 7 others like this.
  14. Oldmansmith

    Oldmansmith Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,791
    Likes Received:
    4,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Environmentl Consultant
    Location:
    Taxachusetts
    A big -1 for Trump.

    Can we stop talking about "states rights" now?
     
    gnome, Silvergun and Ensoniq like this.
  15. Oldmansmith

    Oldmansmith Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,791
    Likes Received:
    4,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Environmentl Consultant
    Location:
    Taxachusetts
    The black helicopters are still using federal funds to bust medical marijuana growers here in rural Massachusetts. Last fall they showed up one mile down the road from me, no warrant, confiscated the weed and left, no charges, no recourse. And we have hundreds of people dying from opioids every year that they do nothing about. Jack-booted thugs is what they are.
     
    mtnman, Alton, gnome and 6 others like this.
  16. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2010
    Messages:
    28,442
    Likes Received:
    32,313
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Planet Earth
    Hopefully, Pandora's pot box can't be closed.

    It's stupid to prohibit something that isn't addictive.

    There's a long history of 'why' it's prohibited and it's not because it's 'addictive'.
     
    Alton, gnome, searcher and 3 others like this.
  17. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Likes Received:
    12,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Silver stacker
    Location:
    America!
    Nope.

    The people have spoken by amending their respective state constitution to allow the consumption of a God given, organic plant.

    D.C. is disrespecting the will and laws of the people in said states.

    There is no constitutional prohibition on marijuana. This is a states rights issue regardless of how much anyone doesn't want to talk about it.
     
    gnome, Goldhedge, searcher and 5 others like this.
  18. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Messages:
    6,233
    Likes Received:
    9,126
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Free Marketeer
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Just to recap the twisted logic used by the Feds

    The basis for federal illegality is the commerce Clause and the federal claim they rule this area. Wicker v Filbern was the case. Filbern the farmer was growing wheat on his own farm for his own use (no commerce involved right). The supremes ruled the Feds had the right to enforce grow limits.

    So if I have a seed and grow a plant on my own property for my own use, without any involvement of monetary transaction with others, the Feds claim the commerce clause gives them the right to stop me and throw me in jail.
     
    gnome, mayhem, searcher and 2 others like this.
  19. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,363
    Likes Received:
    2,281
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Data Architect, Systems Engineer, Business Owner,
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Has Monsanto filed for a patent on GMO Marijuana?
    Bet they have.
    Then you won't be able to grow your own.
     
    Zed, gnome, Thecrensh and 2 others like this.
  20. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,522
    Likes Received:
    4,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Instant Gratification Land
    Actually, there is.


    The basis for illegality is found in Article 6, Clause 2 of the Constitution.

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land;
    ...and the Single Convention Treaty on narcotics, ratified by all members of the UN, is what the fed.gov is actually enforcing. The commerce clause is but the tool they use in doing so.

    Article 6 goes on to further state that...."and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby,"

    So how should they (fed.gov) react when judges ignore the "supreme law"?

    Should they also be permitted to ignore illegal immigration?



    Now, that said, I too agree that the whole thing is one huge mess and in no way should this post be read as though I support the feds actions on this subject. I'm merely pointing out the mechanics of why the fed.gov takes the position it does on this subject. They are simply enforcing the Treaty that the Peoples Representatives signed and ratified, thereby making it a part of the Constitution itself.

    IMHO, it should in fact be 100% a States Rights issue and the un treaty from 1961 should have never been entered into as it serves to destroy States Rights and therefor undermines the original intent of the 9th and 10th Amendments.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
    mayhem, EricTheCat and Oldmansmith like this.
  21. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Messages:
    6,233
    Likes Received:
    9,126
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Free Marketeer
    Location:
    North Carolina
    ^^

    Cannabis has been illegal since the 30s. The treaty on narcotics was from the early 60s.

    Treaties aren't a trump card

    Obizo wanted to Senate to ratify the small arms treaty. Would thus have superseded the second amendment?
     
  22. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,522
    Likes Received:
    4,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Instant Gratification Land
    No, actually it hasn't. The 1937 law imposed a draconian tax upon its production, distribution and use. There were tax stamps for it, but the cost of them made it prohibitively expensive.

    What it comes down to is the fact that Congress knew at the time (1937) it did not have authority to make a plant illegal, so they did the next best thing. Ie: tax it into oblivion.

    It wasn't until the single convention treaty that it became possible to "legally" make it illegal. The Treaty gave Congress the authority it previously lacked and the Drug Enforcement Act that created the drug scheduling we all know today.


    Edited to add:...and you can thank Harry J. Anslinger for virtually all of it.
     
  23. skychief

    skychief enthusiastic stacker Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2014
    Messages:
    630
    Likes Received:
    711
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Occupation:
    Musician
    Location:
    California Coast
    Right. And its even stupider to prohibit something that grows naturally - Something that is provided by God.

    I've always known that marijuana can never be "illegal". Any more than parsley or cilantro can be "illegal". Dumb-ass laws are no longer observed in these parts.
     
    Alton, Zed, gnome and 4 others like this.
  24. BackwardsEngineeer

    BackwardsEngineeer If I weren't a snowflake, I'd have no luck at all Silver Miner

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2011
    Messages:
    346
    Likes Received:
    478
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Over and over.... over and over

    Don't any of you get tired of the same moronic conversations... pot legalize or vandalize...
    Fed ...rates up down or sideways..
    Guns.... take em, hold em or give them away
    healthcare hmo federalize of hell just make it free
    Silver to the moon or dog with fleas
    Gold shiny stuff or the worst color for faucets

    Over and over, same posts same viewpoints.... it's just boring
     
    mtnman, gnome, Irons and 2 others like this.
  25. Oldmansmith

    Oldmansmith Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,791
    Likes Received:
    4,826
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Environmentl Consultant
    Location:
    Taxachusetts
    Stupid me. I guess we should be talking about how big Kim Kardishan's ass is or something important like that
     
  26. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Likes Received:
    12,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Silver stacker
    Location:
    America!
    You're right. It sucks that there is very little if any progress on the issues.

    But I think in this tread we have uncovered a more pressing issue than marijuana. That is the Feds usurping power that they otherwise wouldn't have via making treaties.

    It's all food for thought. Eat up.
     
  27. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,522
    Likes Received:
    4,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Instant Gratification Land
    Yes, that is an issue, but whether or not it's actual usurpation of power or not all comes down to ones interpretation of the Constitution. Everything the fed.gov does is, technically speaking at least, within the scope of the current politically and legally recognized interpretation of the Constitution that has been being built via Court rulings over the preceding 226 odd years since it was written.
    To change that will require quite the circumstances and substantial time.

    The way I would look at it is, if a law, Amendment, or even Treaty in any way destroys or diminishes the original intent of the Founders, it should be null and void on its inception.
     
  28. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Likes Received:
    12,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Silver stacker
    Location:
    America!
    The state governments giving up their right to select senators for congress has completely disordered the constitution.

    With treaties the House of Representatives doesn't even have a say on the matter.

    Essentially 37 senators, the president and a foreign nation can make supreme law.

    Our political climate of electing senators by popular vote is not what was intended when the constitution was written.
     
    mayhem, Aurumag and solarion like this.
  29. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Messages:
    3,638
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No Republic as long as there's a 17th non-Amendment.
     
    Goldhedge, mayhem and Aurumag like this.
  30. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,522
    Likes Received:
    4,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Instant Gratification Land
    Technically speaking, yes.
    ...but that power isn't supposed to include destroying the intent of the Constitution itself. Ie: could the POTUS, a foreign nation and the Senate conspire to deprive Americans their life Liberty or property? Yes, but at that point the SC gets a say too when the issue comes up for them. Edited to add:....and this is also where the all-important interpretation comes into play. As long as what they're doing fits with their interpretation, you should expect the course we're on to continue.


    Also, the 17th Amendment is a bit of a double edged sword, as in cases like this are they not the Peoples Representatives too? That's who elected them, after all. If State govs had appointed them, they would be even further removed from the will of the People.
     
  31. ErrosionOfAccord

    ErrosionOfAccord #1 Global Warmer Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2010
    Messages:
    2,709
    Likes Received:
    2,514
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Energy Extraction
    Location:
    Coal Country
    They are supposed to put a check on the idiots elected by the idiots. THAT'S THE PROBLEM, no checks and balances.
     
    mayhem, solarion and Aurumag like this.
  32. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Likes Received:
    12,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Silver stacker
    Location:
    America!
    They are supposed to have the will of the states, not necessarily the people.

    For example, hypothetically, state selected senators wouldn't delegate their rights away to the federal government, like they did with drug enforcement, unless it truly was a pressing issue. And if that were the case, a constitutional amendment would need to be passed, not a treaty.

    The people may be for drug enforcement, but it wouldn't be necessary have to come from the Feds.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
    mayhem and solarion like this.
  33. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Messages:
    6,233
    Likes Received:
    9,126
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Free Marketeer
    Location:
    North Carolina
    a treaty requires approval of the Presdident and ratification bt the senate

    A federal law requires the Pres, the Senate and the house to pass a bill

    A treaty, even if ratified, only means the President has promised foreign nations a certain thing, This doesn't mean he can deliver on his promise
     
  34. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Likes Received:
    12,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Silver stacker
    Location:
    America!
    Two types of treaties... self-executing treaty and non.

    A self-executing treaty is a treaty that becomes judicially enforceable upon ratification. As opposed to a non-selfexecuting treaty, which becomes judicially enforceable through the implementation of legislation.

    The fed then has the right to pass laws that enforce a non self executing treaty... in this case marijuana laws.

    The authority for the Feds to enforce drug laws comes from the treaty, otherwise they would have to stretch logic rely on the commerce clause.

    I hate to say it, but it is technically legal for the govt to enforce drug laws. This abuse clearly was not the intention when the constitution was written.

    Hypothetically, they could have authority to enforce otherwise unconstitutional laws so long as they are enforcing a treaty.

    "This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
    Ensoniq likes this.
  35. Rollie Free

    Rollie Free Midas Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,486
    Likes Received:
    3,751
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Nebraska
    My dad used tell me to quit crying or he'll give me a reason to cry.
    There are a million problems in this world. Your snowflakin because you can't smoke joints legally is 1,000,001 on the list.
     
  36. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Likes Received:
    12,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Silver stacker
    Location:
    America!
    I'm mainly upset at people being put in a cage like animals for something that in the eyes of God can't possibly be a crime.

    And not to mention the police state that comes with it, again at everyone's expense.

    IMG_0114.JPG
    http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4914884

    The USA has the most people behind cages than any other nation, that is a very big problem.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
    mayhem, mtnman, bemac and 2 others like this.
  37. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    8,298
    Likes Received:
    12,365
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Silver stacker
    Location:
    America!
    Simple yes or no Rollie.



    Is this "snow flaking"?
     
    edsl48, mayhem, bemac and 1 other person like this.
  38. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    4,522
    Likes Received:
    4,267
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Instant Gratification Land
    Yep. That's the crux of the problem right there. If it weren't for the 50% imprisoned for drug offenses, we'd be able to make sure that the ones that actually created a victim with their crime serve their full sentence.
    As it is now, they charge and convict people with big time, but then hardly ever make them actually serve it, due to overcrowded jails. Which means that the criminals who actually hurt someone (robbers rapers murders etc) are, in many cases, put back out on the streets to possibly do it again.
     
  39. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Messages:
    6,233
    Likes Received:
    9,126
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Free Marketeer
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Well despite being boring and snowflake like, I'm learning something in this thread
     
    mayhem likes this.
  40. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    131,965
    Likes Received:
    38,233
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No "snow flaking" here.

    What is here is a true story of innocent people being framed for something they were not guilty of by lying, thieving, crooked cops who are actually badged up thug scum operating under the color of law. It's a perfect example of how a lot of cops operate in the U.S. and one of the reasons we have more people in jail than any other country on the planet.

    And now that Jeff Sessions is in power I think this will happen more and more as cops become embolden to steal from innocent people under the guise of civil asset forfeiture.
     
    Alton, edsl48 and ErrosionOfAccord like this.

Share This Page