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Trump's Tax Plan

Discussion in 'Politics Forum (Local/National/World)' started by searcher, Sep 27, 2017.



  1. Area51

    Area51 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Educate yourself on the role of tariffs in America, my friend. The US built itself into a superpower thanks in large part to tariffs.

    Whether it's 30% or 3000% raise the tariffs high enough so that nobody will be able to afford any of the foreign made garbage. People will find a way to get by without the latest version of the Chinese made iPhone.
     
  2. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    You're the one that needs education because anyone with an ounce of sense knows that tariffs that high will shut off trade and close foreign markets to our domestic companies. It's happened before and led to actual war. The shooting kind.


    The only way any tariff would help at all, would be if they caused the price of imported goods to be equal to the price of producing the goods here.
    ...but that would also serve to install a floor for mfgs here to not care about trying to lower their prices. Ie: it becomes a type of subsidy and/or price protection for domestic producers. I'm sure many producers would like to have the gov protect them from free market forces. Takes some of the risk out of running a business and allows them to be lazier.


    So what about the question of mine you keep avoiding? Ie: where does the money to pay corporate taxes come from if it is not included into the cost of production?

    You keep saying that corporate taxes have no effect on prices or wages, so where does the money come from? Does the ceo put the tax bill under his pillow and wait for the tax fairy to come and leave him some money to pay it with? Or do they add that cost into the cost of production and therefor pass it along to others to actually pay it for them?
     
  3. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Not all goods are elastic but all artificial costs (tariffs) incentivize price increases and inflation as well as suppression of demand.

    Free trade is a slogan, it doesn't exist in the 21 century except on the black market at times.
     
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  4. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Tarriffs are protectionism. Even In a perfect world they are harmful to the consumer.

    I concede they are useful tools to slow or disincentivize foreign state subsidy of foreign industry.
     
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  5. edsl48

    edsl48 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I recently read that the Whirlpool Corporation has petitioned the Trump administration to impose tariffs on Samsung and LG appliances. Currently all of the mentioned companies' products are priced similarly so I am making an uneducated guess that people are buying the Samsung and LG products because they are more reliable. I have bought a lot of appliances over the years for my rental properties and have all in all been satisfied with units made by Whirlpool but will say over the past couple of years have had some issues with Whirlpool's Maytag branded units.
     
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  6. Garyw

    Garyw The Military gave me Defoliant Exposure Silver Miner

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    The people of California,New York and New Jersey need to tell their state they will not pay state taxes til they drop.
     
  7. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    On a personal note: As far as I'm concerned any business owner / any business man who had a business that was started in this country and moved it overseas is a traitor. Any congress critter or senator who allowed that to happen is a whore and a traitor. Those involved in this have allowed the mass raping of the American public. They are loyal to themselves only. Don't listen to what a politician says. Look at what they do, the bills they sponsor and laws they pass. That'll show you where their loyalties lie. And most of the time it isn't with the American people.
     
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  8. Area51

    Area51 Silver Miner Seeker

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    The US runs a massive trade deficit and has been since 1975. That's inexcusable and completely unsustainable.

    The argument of free trade creating "lower prices" is a complete farce - - although I'm not surprised an uneducated and misinformed type such as yourself would believe such a ruse.

    Nobody's going to attack America because they close down their borders. Are you afraid of the Mexican army? The Bangladesh military scares you?
     
  9. Area51

    Area51 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Could not agree with you more. Ross Perot called it exactly how it is.

    Allowing cheap foreign junk to freely enter the domestic market has essentially destroyed America by offshoring so many jobs.

    Both Republicans AND Democrats were in on the scam. It's all about catering to the wealthy elites and their corporations.

    The American economy desperately needs jobs. And the only way to get those jobs back the we're moved to Mexico/China/Bangladesh for $1/hr labour rates is to tariff the living shit out of every single imported product.

    The resident forum troll will insist tariffs are bad and will spout the standard political bullshit about how trade protectionism will hurt the US economy, but anyone with the slightest sense of economic awareness can see right through that laughable charade.
     
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  10. edsl48

    edsl48 Silver Member Silver Miner

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    Ross Perot warned and if I remember correctly split the Republican vote while the usual's on the Democrat party stuck together and voted in Clinton who signed NAFTA right after taking office. Now the libs say its Bush's fault when in fact Clinton signed NAFTA into law. It is not that Bush was any better but as you say both sides are in on this and lets not forget, the Democrats including the union types voted for their own demise...NAFTA was the will of the people and they got what they asked for
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
  11. Area51

    Area51 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Both were culpable.

    Old Man Bush signed the NAFTA treaty just before he left office and Clinton signed it into law just as soon as he got into office. But in typical spin, both sides can point to the other to
    keep the general public confused.

    As usual, the free trade scam wasn't a liberal/conservative thing - - it was politicians taking care of the wealthy elites. In reality, there's absolutely ZERO difference between the Republicans and Democrats. Both are equally corrupt and incompetent.
     
  12. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    We've had that since before 1975.
    ...but I do agree that our trade deficit is too high. Although the best way to fix that is by creating a more friendly business environment here at home.

    Edited to add: also, keep in mind that part of the petro-dollar plan includes us running a high trade deficit. If we maintained a trade surplus, the petro-dollar wouldn't work.
    ....and like it or not, we all (here in America) have benefited from it.


    It's not so much a thing of causing prices to actually fall as it is a way to keep them from rising as much as they otherwise would.
    Remember, inflation is baked in the cake. As time goes on, the costs of production will always rise. A way to offset that rise is to find cheaper ways, and places, of production so as to offset that rise in cost that would occur here.


    No, I don't think Bangladesh will invade, but closing the borders is still a stupid idea.

    That's not to say there should be NO borders, just that they shouldn't be closed.
     
  13. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  14. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  15. Area51

    Area51 Silver Miner Seeker

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    That's such naive rhetoric - - just what I'd expect from you.

    The corporate tax rate could go to 0% and it'd still be impossible to compete with the third world countries paying $1/hr for labour with ZERO benefits and safety/environmental regulations so lax that allows melamine in milk or toxic drywall that destroys plumbing and electrical wiring or factories that are built so piss poorly they collapse and kill over 1100 workers.

    Without tariffs to even the playing field the jobs are never coming back to America, my friend.
     
  16. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Funny you should post this, as I was just about to post the following to you.

    In an article @searcher posted in another thread, I noticed this little tidbit.

    ...the tax on vaping and other tobacco products yielded $83.9 million. (That vaping tax, a whopping 40 percent on retailers, has caused more than 100 of the state’s vape shops to close in the last year).
    http://www.philly.com/philly/news/p...ennsylvania-legislators-hope-so-20171113.html


    Now granted, a 40% tax is excessive by almost everyones standards, but it demonstrates the effect of taxing business. Ie: they must pass that tax along to someone else or risk going out of business.

    What PA did was to cost jobs in their own State and to have their own people buy the stuff from out of State.
    ....and the same thing happens when done at the federal level too.


    Then why are there any jobs still here at all?
     
  17. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    :beer:
     
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  18. Area51

    Area51 Silver Miner Seeker

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    That's exactly why you'd want tariffs - - to put foreign made goods out of business domestically.

    It'd be the equivalent of telling the smoke shops there's a 40% tax if they're in an odd numbered building but no tax if they're in an even numbered building.

    Guess where all the smoke shops would be? In even numbered buildings.

    And with a 400% tariff on foreign goods guess what every retailer would be selling? Domestic made products.
     
  19. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Then how could the gov collect money from the tariffs? In this case they'd be right back to having to tax the business here just to have any money at all.

    Earlier you said that if corporate taxes were lowered, we should have tariffs to make up the difference. Well if tariffs shut down imports, where's the gov get its tax money from?


    Right now PA must want to be an odd numbered building then. lol


    What if the gov taxes them (domestic mfgs) at 401%?


    What I see in your posts is a desire for the illusion that anyone other than you actually pays the tax. As long as you don't perceive it is you paying it, you're ok with it.
    News flash: both corp taxes and tariffs that are indiscriminately imposed, can only cost our own people.
     
  20. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Repeal and replace the tax code


    By GEORGE F. WILL
    Monday
    Posted Nov 13, 2017 at 3:13 PM Updated at 12:01 AM


    The Republicans’ tax bill would somewhat improve the existing revenue system that once caused Mitch Daniels (former head of the Office of Management and Budget, former Indiana governor) to say: Wouldn’t it be nice to have a tax code that looked as though it had been designed on purpose? Today’s bill, which is 429 pages and is apt to grow, is an implausible instrument of simplification. And it would worsen the tax code’s already substantial contribution to “moral hazard.”

    Economists use that phrase to denote circumstances in which incentives are for perverse behavior. Today’s tax code is such a circumstance, and the Republican bill would exacerbate this by expanding the $1,000 child credit to $1,600 with an additional $300 “family credit” for each parent and non-child dependent, and by doubling the standard deduction to $12,000 for individuals and $24,000 for married couples. These measures would increase the number of persons not paying income taxes and would further decrease the percentage of income tax revenues paid by low-income earners.

    Already 62 percent of American households pay more in payroll taxes than in income taxes. The bottom 50 percent of earners supply less than 3 percent of income tax revenues. Forty-five percent of American households pay no income tax, either because they earn too little or because they qualify for enough exemptions and credits to erase their liability. Sixty percent pay nothing or less than 5 percent of their income. Forty percent of earners are net recipients from the income tax because they qualify for refundable tax credits. All this means that an already large — and, if the Republican bill passes, soon to be larger — American majority has a vanishingly small incentive to restrain the growth of a government that they are not paying for through its largest revenue source.

    These facts might be the results of defensible tax and social policies. They should, however, be discomfiting to those remaining conservatives -- they are on the endangered species list — who dispute Dick Cheney’s notion that “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.” Deficits matter for their political as well as — actually, even more than -- their economic effects: Deficits make big government cheap, enabling the political class to charge taxpayers rather less than $1 for every $1 of government benefits dispensed. When the Bush-Cheney administration managed the last large tax cut, the publicly held national debt was 33 percent of GDP. Today it is 75 percent.

    Today’s Republican bill, drafted in the aftermath of the failure to repeal and replace Obamacare, is supposed to demonstrate to the party’s Trumpian base that congressional majorities matter and must be extended. Rep. Mark Meadows, R-N.C., chairman of the conservative House Freedom Caucus, has said (to USA Today): “If we had a whole bunch of wins on major items up to this point, would we perhaps be a little bit more deliberate in our negotiations? I think the answer is yes.” But the facts about participation in the income tax mean that the bill is unlikely to assuage the injured feelings of core Trump supporters, understood as downscale white working-class voters who supposedly are seething because they are not benefiting enough from burdensome government. They might have valid grievances, but not ones that can be addressed by income tax rate reductions for individuals. Payroll tax reductions would be another matter.

    And all individual earners will benefit to some extent from cutting the corporate rate from 35 percent to 20 percent. The incidence of corporate taxation — who actually pays it — is fiercely debated by economists, a remarkably cocksure cohort with strikingly divergent views about the degree to which corporate taxation depresses the wages of the corporations’ workers, curtails shareholders’ dividends, and is passed on to consumers in the costs of corporations’ products. Suffice it to say that corporations do not pay taxes, they collect taxes. Uncertainty about the incidence of corporate taxation is one reason the Republican bill’s corporate tax rate is 20 points too high.

    This year’s best tax bill, which Rep. Bob Goodlatte, R-Va., has introduced six times since 2006, is four pages long and contains fewer words (411) than the new Republican bill has pages. It could be titled “The ‘What You Wished For, Mitch Daniels’ Act.” It is titled, with almost unprecedented accuracy, the “Tax Code Termination Act.” It would nullify the existing 4 million-word code as of Dec. 31, 2021, and require that by July 4 of that year it must be replaced by a new one, which would necessarily be one designed on purpose.

    George Will’s email address is georgewill@washpost.com.

    http://www.buckscountycouriertimes.com/opinion/20171113/repeal-and-replace-tax-code
     
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  21. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  22. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Republican Sen. Ron Johnson Opposes GOP Senate Tax Package
    Wisconsin Republican says plan unfairly benefits corporations over other businesses, says he finds bill’s process ‘offensive’

    By Siobhan Hughes
    The Wall Street Journal

    Updated Nov. 15, 2017 6:48 p.m. ET



    WASHINGTON—Sen. Ron Johnson (R., Wis.) said he opposes the Senate Republican tax package, becoming the first GOP voice of dissent that, if it gains momentum, could force significant changes or jeopardize the party’s goal to pass the bill before the end of the year.

    “If they can pass it without me, let them,” Mr. Johnson said in an interview Wednesday, adding that the plan unfairly benefits corporations more than other types of businesses. “I’m not going to vote for this tax package.”

    Any Republican opposition is significant because GOP leaders are counting on near universal support from within the party to pass a bill on party line votes. With 52 seats in the Senate, Republicans can lose no more than two votes unless they can somehow find a way to win votes from Democrats.

    Other Senate Republicans have expressed concerns. Jeff Flake of Arizona, for example, has worried about deficits and Susan Collins of Maine has worried about Republican plans to repeal the insurance coverage mandate in the Affordable Care Act as part of a tax overhaul.

    Until now, no Senate Republican has come out definitively against the GOP tax plan. The risk for GOP leaders is that other Republicans get behind Mr. Johnson’s opposition, and either stop the bill or slow its passage, depriving Republicans of the chance to boost after-tax income household income next year, during the elections.

    Still, in a statement issued in the late afternoon, Mr. Johnson said he hoped that Republicans could address the disparity so he could support the final version of the tax bill. Such changes could be expensive and might force tax writers to make other changes.

    In addition to his concern about the details of the Republican proposal, he also complained about a process that he said has been closed to his input and also misleads the public about the nature of the tax overhaul.

    “I don’t like that process,” Mr. Johnson said. “I find it pretty offensive, personally.”

    Mr. Johnson said Republican plans prioritize corporations over “pass-through” entities—sole proprietorships, partnerships, limited liability companies and S Corporations—whose owners pay taxes through individual returns and at individual income-tax rates, rather than corporate rates. The Senate plan, like the House plan, proposes to cut the corporate rate from 35% to 20%.

    Top rates for pass-through filers would remain over 30% in the Senate version of the bill and the House bill substantially constrains how much pass-through income could be taxed at a new 25% rate.

    The Senate bill would provide $1.3 trillion in gross tax rate cuts to corporations, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation. That compares with $362 billion in gross tax cuts for pass-through entities. Both types of businesses also would lose some tax breaks.

    More companies are organized as pass-through businesses than as corporations. Many pass-through filers are small businesses. Overall U.S. business income is split roughly evenly between the pass-through businesses and corporate income.

    “I have no problems in making all American businesses competitive globally,” Mr. Johnson said. “This isn’t anti-big corporation at all. When you’re going to do a tax reform, you have to treat them equitably so they can maintain their competitive position here at home as we’re making them competitive globally.”

    Finding the right rate for pass-through businesses is a challenge in part because they file their tax returns as individual filers. Cutting the rates for the wealthiest pass-through filers could be tagged as a giveaway to the rich. More than half of pass-through business income goes to the top 1% of households, according to the Tax Policy Center.

    Mr. Johnson said many small-business owners he speaks with think they will receive a new top tax rate of 25%. That was the goal laid out months ago by Republican leaders and it is in the House bill, but narrowly constrained to a small portion of pass-through income.

    “That is still buffaloing people, pass-throughs that think they’re getting a 25% rate,” Mr. Johnson said. “It’s still lost on a lot of people.”

    Mr. Johnson expressed his frustration at a sensitive time, when House Republican leaders are on the verge of passing their tax bill but need to tamp down concerns that the Senate will fail to act and leave House Republicans having cast a difficult vote. By voicing his concerns one day before Thursday’s House vote, Mr. Johnson raises the profile of his issue but also feeds into worry among House Republicans about the reliability of their Senate partners.

    Mr. Johnson said he has been working at this issue for months and trying to get a hearing for his ideas, only to be rebuffed at every turn by his party leaders. He said he has repeatedly sought a hearing from leaders of the Senate Finance Committee and the House Ways and Means Committee and spoken to high-level officials in the Trump administration.

    “In terms of the committees, it’s just like, not invented here. That’s my assumption—‘Hey little man, we’ve got this covered,’” Mr. Johnson said. He said that he has had a favorable response from White House officials, but that the Trump administration is rebuffing him by telling him it is too late to change course.

    “Back when it wasn’t too late it was just too big a bite and we can’t really chew it,” Mr. Johnson said. “Now it’s just too late,” he said, making his frustration clear. “It’s not like I’m just coming out of the woodwork all of a sudden raising it. I’ve been talking to my colleagues a long time. I presented my idea months ago.”

    Pass-through profits are taxed once, at their owner’s personal rate of up to 39.6% under current law. Corporation profits are taxed twice—once at the corporate rate (20% under the current proposals), and a second time when they pay dividends on which shareholders then pay taxes. Some corporate profits aren’t taxed twice if owned by foreigners or tax-exempt entities.

    Corporations may buy back stock or reinvest in the company instead of paying dividends, but then shareholders would eventually pay tax on resulting capital gains.

    Dividends and capital gains are taxed at a lower rate than other income largely to offset this problem of double taxation, but the system nonetheless discourages corporations from distributing cash.

    Pass-throughs have long demanded that if the corporate rate is lowered, theirs should be, too, despite the fact this would perpetuate the double taxation disadvantage corporations say they face.

    To eliminate their double taxation, Mr. Johnson has proposed treating corporations like pass-through businesses. They would pay no corporate tax and their profits would be taxed in the hands of their shareholders at individual rates, just as pass-through income is today. Senate Finance Chairman Orrin Hatch (R., Utah) has discussed similar ideas but hasn’t gained traction among other Republicans.

    Mr. Johnson said that proposal is no longer his focus. “I’ve given up hope on” advancing it for now. He wasn’t specific on what changes he’d like to see in the Senate bill, though he cited the lack of action on the preferential treatment of “carried interest” of hedge funds and similar investment vehicles.

    To make the process more efficient, corporations would withhold 25% of their profits as tax their shareholders owe, just as they withhold tax their employees owe, and send it to the Treasury. Shareholders would be responsible for paying any additional tax they owe. Mr. Johnson would also eliminate various corporate tax breaks and the ability of corporations to defer tax on foreign profits.

    Equalizing treatment for the two types of entities would have implications for how much revenue the government raises. Mr. Johnson said he can’t fully explore the effects because the nonpartisan staff on the Joint Committee on Taxation won’t evaluate his plan. JCT prioritizes requests from the tax-writing committees, especially the chairmen.

    That has left Mr. Johnson feeling boxed in, since without an analysis, he won’t be able to get a vote on his idea, which he wants to offer as an amendment when the tax bill hits the Senate floor after Thanksgiving. Mr. Johnson said that some Democratic senators support his idea, and he thinks it could be the center of a bipartisan package. He wouldn’t disclose which Democrats support his approach, or which Republicans might.

    Democrats declined to comment on Mr. Johnson’s remarks, but said that other Republican senators have privately echoed his concerns that the tax legislation is moving too quickly.

    “We need to slow down,” said Sen. Maria Cantwell (D., Wash.). “I’m being asked by my constituents, ‘What is this?’ and ‘Am I going to be paying $5,000 more?’ and it changes every five minutes practically.”

    Mr. Johnson believes his approach would do more to encourage factories to bring jobs back to the U.S. The Republican plan would switch to a territorial system, in which companies are taxed where their income is earned, from a world-wide system, in which taxes on global profits are owed in the U.S. and companies can avoid the U.S. share of those taxes by stockpiling profits overseas.

    “With a territorial system, there will be a real incentive to keep manufacturing overseas,” Mr. Johnson said.

    Republicans have focused on the corporate tax rate because they are trying to match what other major countries have done. They say they are trying to get rough parity between corporations and pass-throughs and the House and Senate have different approaches on how to do that.

    In the latest version of the Senate bill, the rate cuts for corporations are permanent. The tax cuts for pass-throughs aren’t.

    Mr. Johnson understands that Republicans could treat him harshly if he stops their tax bill from passing in December.

    “I realize what’s about to happen to me, OK?” he said. “I’m giving them fair warning to do a good tax bill. I’ve been giving them fair warning for months.”

    —Richard Rubin contributed to this article.

    Write to Siobhan Hughes at siobhan.hughes@wsj.com

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/republican-sen-ron-johnson-opposes-gop-senate-tax-package-1510777290
     
  23. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    I don't think they'll get it through the senate

    Too many RINO
     
  24. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    BREAKING: House Republicans PASS Trump tax bill after president visits Capitol Hill and gives them a 'pep rally'
    • House Republicans passed their tax reform package Thursday afternoon, with 227 members for the bill and 205 voting against it
    • Members of the GOP caucus cheered when the package received enough votes, while several Democrats in the chamber trolled them
    • The vote came after President Trump briefly appeared before GOP Republicans in what one member described as a 'pep rally'
    • Now the tax reform action will move to the Senate, as a bill that includes repealing the Obamacare individual mandate has been proposed
    • House members who talked to DailyMail.com said Trump didn't delve into specifics today and didn't say which version of the tax bill he preferred


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5088211/GOP-muscling-tax-bill-House-hits-senator-roadblock.html#ixzz4ycuiQr00
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  25. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  26. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    U.S. towns, cities fear taxpayer revolt if Republicans kill deduction

    By Richard Cowan
    6 hrs ago




    From Pataskala, Ohio, to Conroe, Texas, local government leaders worry that if Republican tax-overhaul plans moving through the U.S. Congress become law, it will be harder for them to pave streets, put out fires, fight crime and pay teachers.

    A tax plan approved by the House of Representatives on Thursday would sharply curtail a federal deduction that millions of Americans can now claim for tax payments to state, county, city and town governments.

    Ending that deduction, the local leaders say, could make their taxpayers, especially in high-tax communities, less likely to support future local tax increases or even tolerate local taxes at present levels.

    The proposed repeal of the state and local tax (SALT) deduction is part of an "assault on local governments" by Republicans in Washington, said Elizabeth Kautz, the Republican mayor of Burnsville, Minnesota, near Minneapolis.

    "My hope is that we look at being thoughtful about what we're doing and not ram something through just to get something done before the year is out," Kautz said of the plan being rushed through Congress by her own party.

    In the United States, local governments run schools, operate police and fire departments and maintain streets, parks and libraries, among other essential services. The federal government's role at that level is limited.

    Cities, towns, counties and states collect their own property, sales and income taxes. Under existing law, payments of those taxes can be deducted, or subtracted from federal taxable income, lowering the amount of federal tax due.

    The House tax bill just approved would eliminate the deduction for individuals and families of state and local income and sales tax, while capping property tax deductions at $10,000.

    A bill being debated in the Senate, with Republican President Donald Trump's support, would kill the SALT deduction entirely for individuals and families, although businesses would keep it. The fate of that bill is uncertain.

    Ending the SALT tax break is part of a package of changes to deductions that would help Republicans raise more than $1.2 trillion in new federal tax revenues over 10 years.

    That increase would help offset the $1.4 trillion in revenue that would be lost from cutting the corporate tax rate, another part of both the Senate and House plans.

    POLICE CONCERNS

    Chuck Canterbury, president of the Fraternal Order of Police, which represents 325,000 law enforcement officers nationwide, wrote a letter to congressional leaders on Tuesday.

    "The FOP is very concerned that the partial or total elimination of SALT deductions will endanger the ability of our state and local government to fund these (law enforcement) agencies," said the letter, distributed to reporters.

    Emily Brock, a director at the Government Finance Officers Association, said if SALT deductions were killed by Congress, voters could revolt. "Can you blame an individual taxpayer?" she asked. "They try to minimize their individual tax liability."

    Those who want to curb the century-old SALT deduction argue it only motivates local governments to seek more tax increases and spend more money. "Maintaining the deduction encourages government overspending and taxation," argues the American Legislative Exchange Council, a nonprofit group of conservative state legislators and private activists.

    Various other groups are fighting on Capitol Hill to defend the SALT deduction, such as the National Association of Realtors and the U.S. Conference of Mayors.

    BRADY'S DISTRICT

    Steve Williams, chief financial officer for Conroe, Texas, said its rapid growth demanded new fire stations, schools, roads and public safety services.

    Conroe is near Houston and in the congressional district of Republican Representative Kevin Brady, chairman of the House tax committee and a champion of restricting the SALT deduction.

    "Tax reform comes with picking winners and losers and I think in the final analysis, the people in (congressional) District 8 will be losers," Williams said.

    Conroe is part of Montgomery County, which voted 75 percent to 22.5 percent for Trump over Democrat Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential election.

    In Pataskala, Ohio, near the state capital, Columbus, city finance director Jamie Nicholson said the local police department needed a new station. It now works out of an early 1900s building with no holding cell for suspects who are under arrest. "They get handcuffed to a chair," he said.

    Given the past difficulty Pataskala has had convincing taxpayers to approve new taxes, he said, eliminating or paring back the SALT deduction might trigger demands for chopping local taxes and blow a huge hole in his budget.

    Greg Cox, a Republican member of the San Diego County, California, Board of Supervisors, echoed similar concerns about the impact on his community.

    He said the Republican plan was unfair partly because it let businesses keep the SALT deduction, while taking it away from individuals and families.

    (Editing by Kevin Drawbaugh and Peter Cooney)

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/us...ill-deduction/ar-BBF3ZMo?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
     
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  27. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    'Don't spew that stuff on me!': Shouting match erupts in Senate over GOP tax plan

    10 hrs ago


    A shouting match erupted in the Senate Finance hearing over the Republican tax overhaul, with Ohio Democrat Sherrod Brown and Utah Republican Orrin Hatch arguing Thursday night over who benefits from the GOP plan.

    At the heart of the argument is new analysis by congressional number crunchers that finds the plan cuts taxes at first but by 2027 actually raises taxes for anyone making less than $75,000.

    "When the Republicans are in power, the first thing they want to do is give tax cuts to the rich. That's just what's — it's in their DNA," Brown said.

    Brown's attack got under the skin of Hatch.

    "I've been here working my whole stinking career for people who don't have a chance. And I really resent anybody saying that I'm just doing this for the rich. Give me a break," Hatch said. "I think you guys overplay that all the time and it gets old. And frankly you ought to quit it."

    "Mr. Chairman, the public believes it," Brown said.

    "I'm not through. I get kind of sick and tired of it," Hatch said.

    The heated exchange came after Republicans successfully voted to move the bill to the Senate floor. Hatch took Brown's charges personally.

    "What you said was not right! That's all I'm saying," Hatch said. "Now I come from the lower middle class originally. We didn't have anything. So don't spew that stuff on me! I get a little tired of that crap! … I like you personally very much. But I'm telling you this bullcrap that you guys throw out here really gets old after a while. And then to do it right at the end of this is just not right."

    Democrats say Republicans are rushing the bill through Congress. They're also upset that the plan eliminates Obamacare's individual mandate, cuts the corporate tax rate to 20 percent, and eliminates Americans' ability to deduct state and local taxes.

    House Republicans passed their version of a $1.5 trillion tax bill on Thursday, and Senate Republicans are hoping to hold a vote on Hatch's plan after Thanksgiving. They insist these tax hikes won't actually happen because Congress will simply renew some of the plan's temporary tax provisions.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...-gop-tax-plan/ar-BBF4Udd?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=iehp
     
  28. hammerhead

    hammerhead Not just a screen name Gold Chaser

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    That is what the Dems want. Same mantra all the time.
     
  29. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    I voted for Perot in 1992. My business is made in USA and will remain here.
     
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  30. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    It will affect CA, NY, NJ, CT and some other similar high tax states. they would never vote for Trump anyway. It will force a realignment of state and local governments to be more frugal.
     
  31. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    ...which will of course result in giving the federal regime greater control over those states...since only they control the majik money tree that conjures currency from thin air.
     
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  32. hammerhead

    hammerhead Not just a screen name Gold Chaser

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    My thoughts were right along Nick's line but the a majik money tree blew that out of the water.
     
  33. solarion

    solarion Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Look at how the federal regime exerts control over the more legitimate State authorities now. We have bridges to nowhere and half funded federal projects all over the place.

    We've gotten so accustomed to seeing the 10th Amendment used as ass wipe by DeeCee that we just expect it at this point.
     
  34. Area51

    Area51 Silver Miner Seeker

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    Who in fuck is paying more than $10,000 in property taxes?

    Sure as all hell isn't any of the lower class peasants lucky enough to own property.
     
  35. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Apparently someone is.

    Actually, a lot of businesses probably pay far more than $10,000 in property tax
    .....and then they pass that cost along, same as every other tax bill they get. It's all just part of the cost of doing business. We've been over this already, remember? In case not, scroll up.
     
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  36. gnome

    gnome Platinum Bling Platinum Bling

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    http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/archives/senate-republican-tax-plan-would-on-average-raise-taxes-on-all-income-groups-earning-less-than-75k

    Senate Republican Tax Plan Would on Average *Raise* Taxes on All Income Groups Earning Less Than $75K

    11/16/2017


    By Robert Wenzel

    Congress’s Joint Committee on Taxation says the Senate version of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act would raise taxes on most low and middle-income taxpayers.

    Households earning between $75,000 and $100,000 will see, on average, no tax cut. And households earning less than $75,000 per year will see, on average, a tax increase.

    Lily Batchelder, a tax professor at NYU who used to be the chief tax counsel for the Senate Finance Committee, has the chart:

    Screen Shot 2017-11-20 at 8.13.44 PM.png

    Per the JCT’s tables, about 65 percent of households fall into the categories that are expecting tax increases.

    EconomicPolicyJournal.com
     
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  37. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    That chart looks to show what everyone says they want, right? Ie: that those on the low end that aren't paying much now, get the breaks and those on the top end who already pay the lions share, get to pay even more?

    Should be just the opposite.
     
  38. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    I think it is funny as a clown on fire! Pass it pass it pass it!!!! . :2 thumbs up:
    These blue states have been raising the feck out of their own taxes just because their residents will then in turn write that state tax off on their federal income taxes.

    That way we the peasants in the other states are forced to indirectly pay for it. Ponder that for a minute. People in red states are subsidizing the state tax bills for millions of East/West coast and big city assholes who hate our guts.

    And those states will never vote republican they are too full of liberal idiots and leeches. I'm not seeing any loss here folks!

    .
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017 at 7:51 AM
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  39. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    A lot of the peeps who bought new homes / had new homes built in my area are. Not so with those with older homes.

    Some peeps with shore houses (NJ) are right around there too.
     
  40. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Senate Releases Tax Bill Text in ‘Unusually Fast’ March to Vote

    By Sahil Kapur
    @sahilkapurMore stories by Sahil Kapur
    ‎November‎ ‎21‎, ‎2017‎ ‎11‎:‎51‎ ‎AM


    The Senate released the 515-page text of its sweeping tax legislation for the first time Tuesday -- and Republican leaders plan to hold a floor vote on it within 10 days.

    That short span reflects an unusually fast process in both chambers, said William Galston, a senior fellow in governance studies at the Brookings Institution, a Washington-based policy group. The House passed its tax bill 14 days after releasing its text.

    “‘Unusually fast’ understates how remarkable this legislative process is,” Galston said. “One reason these bills are going through so quickly is they’re primarily about tax cuts and only secondarily about tax reform.”

    The last time that Congress rewrote the tax code, in 1986, “the actual legislative deliberations over the bill stretched out over months -- and it was a good thing,” he said.

    More recently, when Democrats tried to overhaul health care in 2009, he said, “the Affordable Care Act was on the table for six months, or more” as then-Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus negotiated that summer with Republicans, only to come up empty-handed and proceed without them.

    At least one GOP senator has complained about the pace. “I’ve got a real problem with this process,” Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin said Monday on WISN radio. “I would prefer that this bill would’ve been introduced months ago.”

    Republicans on the Senate Finance Committee say it’s standard practice for the panel to consider, amend and approve proposals that are written as descriptions of plans -- without full legislative text -- as it did last week with the tax measure.

    Congress is on recess this week. Senate leaders say they plan to hold a floor vote after lawmakers return the week of Nov. 27. If their plans go smoothly, a vote could take place as early as Nov. 30.

    If the full Senate approves the measure, lawmakers would have to reconcile differences between the Senate and House bills before sending a final version to President Donald Trump.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...tax-bill-text-in-unusually-fast-march-to-vote
     

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