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Trump's Tax Plan

Discussion in 'Politics Forum (Local/National/World)' started by searcher, Sep 27, 2017.



  1. gnome

    gnome Platinum Bling Platinum Bling

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    No, you're reading it wrong. That shows that the top 35% (those making more than $100k) are getting a tax cut and 65% of population are getting a tax raise.
     
  2. gnome

    gnome Platinum Bling Platinum Bling

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    Not true my friend. Quite the opposite.
    Blue states pay more in federal taxes than they receive in federal benefits.
    They are what are called 'donor states'. Red states suck the benefits.

    Largely because blue states are the economic powerhouses that drive GDP.
    Texas is the most notable exception, due it's large oil economy.

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Ok, I looked at again and see what you're saying, but it's still at most only a 1.5% decrease in net. Ie: a $1.50 per $100. So still, basically nothin'. That means the low end will pay 6% of the over-all income tax burden. Which means they are still getting a virtual free ride.
     
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  4. gnome

    gnome Platinum Bling Platinum Bling

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    Agreed.
     
  5. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    I never pay much attention to these so called tax cuts because they never amount to shit for anybody punching a clock.
    An extra $16 a week in take home pay that is instantly sucked back up by other new stealth taxes means nothing.

    Unless they start talking flat tax across the board and eliminating 90% of the IRS all this fuckery is nothing but chin music from the same smiling liars claiming to be helping you.

    .
     
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  6. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    FedAidtoStates-011-1024x916.png
    State-level taxes may be the most visible source of state government revenues for most taxpayers, but it’s important to remember that they are not the only source of state revenue. State governments also receive a significant amount of assistance from the federal government in the form of federal grants-in-aid. Federal aid is given to states for Medicaid, transportation, education, and other means-tested entitlement programs administered by the states.

    States differ in the amount of federal aid they receive. The top recipient of federal aid in FY 2014 was Mississippi, which relied on federal assistance for 40.9 percent of its revenue. Other states heavily reliant on federal assistance include Louisiana (40.1 percent), Tennessee (39.9 percent), Montana (39.1 percent), and Kentucky (38.5 percent). As we have previously noted, these states, and others that rely heavily on federal assistance, tend to have modest tax collections and a relatively large low-income population.

    Other states have comparatively low reliance on federal aid. North Dakota relies on federal assistance for only 16.8 percent of its general revenue. Other less-reliant states include Virginia (22.8 percent), Connecticut (24.6 percent), Nevada (24.8 percent), and Hawaii (24.8 percent). Trends in these states are opposite those in federal aid-heavy states; they typically have higher tax revenues and a smaller low-income population. Nevada is somewhat of an outlier, however, as it is able to export a large portion of its tax burden through sales taxes due to tourism. North Dakota is also able to export much of its tax burden, through severance taxes.

    https://taxfoundation.org/states-rely-most-federal-aid/
     
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  7. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    as a fyi,

    libtards are quick to point out .fed spending is greater in red than blue states,

    but they use metrics like per capita, per gdp, etc in order to accomplish it.

    if you look at real dollars expended, then you get an idea of how false their claims are.

    the truly gullible actually suck it up hook line and sinker

    full websites devoted to 'who is a net taker' and 'who is a net giver'.

    funny as hell actually how people lap it up 'cause they saw it on the internets and didn't give it some thought, just use it as confirmation of their biases.

    much as the tax argument, same same
     
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  8. Scorpio

    Scorpio Скорпион Founding Member Board Elder Site Mgr Site Supporter ++

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    An example

    Alaska, very small population which fugs the metrics bigtime

    Massive fed spending on coast guard for the fisheries, military bases because of the proximity to the evil russia, and so on.

    Yet, no economy and less jobs because the feds are in the business of extraction,

    Why don't these less than intelligent twits ever factor in how much is being extracted from Alaska in their figures????? Fisheries, oil, minerals, .fed power projection...........

    Because it doesn't fit their agenda, simple
     
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  9. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    House Republicans have a little-known plan to raise taxes on teachers by $2 billion

    [​IMG]
    The Washington Post
    Heather Long
    1 hr ago


    Every year, Brooke Richardson, who teaches English as a second language to mostly low-income Hispanic students in Atlanta, turns to her own pocketbook to help her students. She has lost track of how many pencils, markers, notebooks and glue sticks she buys a year.

    Then there are the marshmallows and cotton balls for hands-on projects. And then there are the extra books so they have something to read on the weekend and during holiday breaks, and peanut butter and jelly so kids who don't have enough to eat have at least some food at Christmas. Every year she also has had to replace headphones or other classroom technology because something always malfunctions, and there's rarely enough money in the budget to fix it. She prides herself as a master discount shopper, but so many little purchases add up.

    All in, Richardson estimates she spent $500 of her own money on her students last year. She says it's worth it — her voice lights up talking about “her kids” and all their “aha moments,” many of which come when she deviates from the textbook.

    But what has also been helpful is that she's able to deduct $250 off her taxable income for the extras she buys for her classroom, a small help that Congress created in 2002 for teachers who “go above and beyond.”

    Now, the educator expense deduction has become a sticking point in the GOP tax debate, with the House and Senate taking it in two wildly different directions.

    The House GOP tax bill would scrap that educator deduction entirely.

    The Senate GOP tax plan would double it to $500.

    “The tax deduction means a lot to teachers,” says Richardson, who is 36 and lives in Atlanta. “Everything we bring to the classroom, we are doing it for our students. We are doing it because education isn't always properly funded on the state or local level.”

    The education expense deduction is one of many differences between the House and Senate bills that still have to be ironed out before a tax plan can be sent to President Trump's desk. The House has already passed its version of the bill. The Senate is aiming to vote on its legislation next week.

    What politicians decide could greatly affect America's 3.6 million teachers — and their students.

    One of the biggest champions of the teacher deduction is Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), who is considered a key swing vote on the tax bill. Collins helped create the deduction in 2002 and lead the charge to make it permanent in 2015, calling it a "small token of appreciation" for teachers who make financial sacrifices for their students.

    "I will continue to advocate for the Senate provision doubling the deduction," said Collins in a statement to The Washington Post. “During my Senate service, I have visited more than 200 schools throughout Maine. At virtually every school, I have met teachers who are spending money out of their own pockets to benefit their students."

    The median salary for an elementary school teacher like Richardson is $55,490, according to the Labor Department, an amount most say falls into the middle class. But teachers often start their careers at far lower salaries, and that's when they typically need to spend the most to build up their base of materials.

    “The first few years that I taught I often spent over $500,” says Darcie Schoeps, a 39-year-old who teaches social studies at a high school in the Bronx, one of America's poorest neighborhoods. “The textbooks I was given my first year were so outdated they still had the Soviet Union listed as a country.”

    Schoeps, who has taught for more than a decade, used her own money to buy new maps and workbooks with Russia (and other nations) listed appropriately. Now she teaches general education, special education and English as a second language students, requiring her to buy workbooks and games that can suit a wide range of abilities. In her 9th grade classes, some students read at a 4th grade level.

    Any full-time instructor at a public or private K-12 school is currently eligible for the $250 deduction. It's an “above-the-line” deduction, meaning teachers don't have to itemize to claim it. It's listed on the part of the tax form alongside deductions for moving expenses, student loan interest and health savings accounts. The House GOP bill does away with those popular deductions, as well.

    The educator deduction gives a teacher earning about $55,000 a year an extra $40 to $50 in their pocket. Republicans in the House, including Speaker Paul D. Ryan (Wis.) and Rep. Kevin Brady (R-Tex.), argue that the time has come to simplify the tax code, even if it means getting rid of popular deductions.

    “Keeping records of these expenses is often very burdensome for taxpayers, and this current-law deduction also poses administrative and enforcement challenges for the Internal Revenue Service (IRS)," House Republicans wrote in a document explaining why they eliminated deductions for teacher expenses, medical expenses and others.

    House Republicans say their bill gets rid of the teacher deduction but that many educators would still be better off because they are also increasing the standard deduction and lowering overall tax rates. For example, the 15 percent tax bracket falls to 12 percent in their plan.

    But Richardson, who is single, may be worse off.

    Although the House bill does increase her standard deduction from $6,350 to $12,000, it also takes away other savings she uses. In addition to losing the $250 teacher deduction, the House bill eliminates the the $2,500 student loan interest deduction, a benefit that helps many teachers like Richardson who get their master's degree in education. She would also lose either the personal exemption (currently worth $4,050) or the ability to deduct some of her state and local taxes if she itemizes.

    The Senate bill keeps the student loan interest deduction, while the House bill eliminates it, another conflict.

    Richardson worries about other ways the legislation may affect education. The Senate bill scraps all state and local tax deductions. Most schools in the United States get their funding from property taxes. Atlanta's public schools already had to make budget cuts this year after a property tax freeze. School funding could become even more contentious, especially in high-tax cities, if the GOP tax bills are enacted.

    Any tax bill requires trade-offs. Both the House and Senate bills reduce the tax rate for large corporations from 35 percent to 20 percent. It's a change that would be permanent. To pay for that, Republican lawmakers had to raise revenue elsewhere. The House bill did that by eliminating many tax breaks for individuals like the educator expense.

    The educator expense deduction costs the federal government $210 million a year — or about $2.1 billion over the 10-year time span of the tax bill, according to estimates from the Joint Committee on Taxation and the U.S. Treasury. The educator expense deduction costs less than 0.15 percent of the tax cut going to mega corporations to lower their rates.

    Read more:

    Will your taxes go up or down? The five biggest questions on the GOP plan

    By age 3, inequality is clear: Rich kids attend school. Poor kids stay with a grandparent

    The House just passed its big tax bill. Here's what is in it

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ho...llar2-billion/ar-BBFtK0i?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
     
  10. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    When is Tax Reform Not Tax Reform? | Matt Nye
    SilverDoctors



    Published on Nov 23, 2017
    https://sdbullion.com
    http://www.silverdoctors.com/precious...

    House’s New “Controversial” Tax Plan

    Chairman of the Republican Liberty Caucus and Seasoned Political Activist Matt Nye uses his expertise to touch on Trump’s new Tax Proposal and what the impact would be on America. The House Republicans’ new tax plan released by Rep. Kevin Brady (R-TX) proposes bold changes for tax reform — changes that have already been received with outrage by many groups. A number of industries and the small business lobby have come out against the bill, and the bill faces headwinds in both parties.

    The bill, called the “Tax Cuts and Jobs Act,” puts forward extensive tax cuts for businesses, but many people are hazy on whether their own taxes would go up or down, given the complexity of deductions. What questions remain unanswered?

    This video was posted with permission from http://FinancialSurvivalNetwork.com
     
  11. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Mom & pop business owners talk taxes in general............

    ⭐ UNFAIR State And Federal Taxes - REAL TALK
    ⭐ Astral Auto Repairs



    Published on Nov 23, 2017
    in today's show, we discuss the unfairness of taxes in some states and counties. Let us know if there are any unfair taxes where you live!
     
  12. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Trump's $1.4 Trillion Tax Cut Is Entering Its Make-or-Break Week
    [​IMG]
    Bloomberg

    Bloomberg News
    4 hrs ago


    (Bloomberg) -- The $1.4 trillion item on President Donald Trump’s wish list -- a package of tax cuts for businesses and individuals that he has said he wants to sign before year’s end -- is headed into the legislative equivalent of a Black Friday scrum next week.

    Senate Republican leaders plan a make-or-break floor vote on their bill as soon as Thursday -- a dramatic moment that will come only after a marathon debate that could go all night. Democrats are expected to try to delay or derail the measure, and the GOP must hold together at least 50 votes from its thin, 52-vote majority in order to prevail.

    Their chances improved this week when Republican Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska said she’ll support repealing the “individual mandate” imposed by Obamacare -- a provision that Senate tax writers are counting on to help finance the tax cuts. Murkowski had earlier signaled some reservations about the provision; and her support was widely viewed as a positive sign for the tax bill’s chances.

    If the bill clears the Senate -- a step that’s by no means guaranteed -- lawmakers in both chambers would have to hammer out a compromise between their differing bills, a process that presents potential pitfalls of its own. For now, though, much of the Senate’s attention will focus on its legislation’s price tag.

    Three GOP senators -- Bob Corker of Tennessee, Jeff Flake of Arizona and James Lankford of Oklahoma -- have cited concerns about how the measure would affect federal deficits. Independent studies of the legislation have found that -- contrary to its backers’ arguments -- its tax cuts won’t stimulate enough growth to pay for themselves. Both the Senate bill, and one that cleared the House earlier this month, would reduce federal revenue over a decade by roughly $1.4 trillion, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation.

    On Wednesday, a report from the Penn Wharton Budget Model at the University of Pennsylvania said the bill would reduce federal revenue in each year from 2028 to 2033. That finding would mean it doesn’t comply with a key budget rule that Senate Republican leaders want to use to pass their bill with a simple majority over Democrats’ objections.

    In essence, that rule holds that any bill approved via that fast-track process can’t add to the deficit outside a 10-year budget window. The JCT has already found that the Senate bill would generate a surplus in its 10th year because it has set several tax breaks for businesses and individuals to expire.

    But JCT hasn’t yet weighed in publicly on the revenue effects in subsequent years. Senate GOP leaders have expressed confidence that their proposal will satisfy the rule ultimately.

    Another potential stumbling block stems from the fact that Congress is trying to act on complex tax legislation under a tight, self-imposed timeline in order to deliver on promises from Trump, House Speaker Paul Ryan and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

    For example, Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin has said he can’t support the current Senate bill because it would give corporations a tax advantage -- a large rate cut to 20 percent from 35 percent -- that other, closely held businesses wouldn’t get.

    ‘Change the Most’
    His concern centers on the Senate’s plan for large partnerships, limited liability companies, sole proprietorships and other so-called “pass-through” businesses. Under current law, these businesses simply pass their earnings to their owners, who pay income taxes at their individual rates -- currently, as high as 39.6 percent, depending on how much they earn.

    Read more: A QuickTake guide to the tax-cut debate

    The Senate bill would provide pass-throughs with a 17.4 percent deduction for income -- effectively giving the highest-earners a top tax rate that’s more than 10 percentage points above the proposed corporate tax rate. The House bill would allow owners to pay a 25 percent rate on 30 percent of their business’s earnings -- or calculate their amounts based on their income from capital assets.

    Reconciling those differences -- and addressing Johnson’s concern -- may be a complicated process. “That’s part of the equation that could change the most over the next few weeks,” Isaac Boltansky, senior vice president and policy analyst at Compass Point Research and Trading LLC, told Bloomberg Tax. “No one is planning around it yet. There is uncertainty across the board.”

    Meanwhile, the Obamacare issue looms in the background -- threatening at least one GOP senator’s vote. Susan Collins of Maine said earlier this week that tax bill “needs work,” and “I think there will be changes.”

    The 2010 Affordable Care Act -- popularly known as Obamacare -- contained a provision requiring individuals to buy health insurance or pay a federal penalty. Removing that penalty in 2019, as the Senate tax bill proposes to do, would generate an estimated $318 billion in savings by 2027, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The savings would stem from about 13 million Americans dropping their coverage, eliminating the need for federal subsidies to help them afford it.

    Because many of the newly uninsured would be younger, healthier people, insurance premiums would rise 10 percent in most years, the nonpartisan fiscal scorekeeper found.

    --With assistance from Laura Davison

    To contact the reporter on this story: John Voskuhl in Washington at jvoskuhl@bloomberg.net.

    To contact the editors responsible for this story: John Voskuhl at jvoskuhl@bloomberg.net, Sarah McGregor

    ©2017 Bloomberg L.P.

    Vid at link: http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...or-break-week/ar-BBFzsYk?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
     
  13. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Could part of Trump's tax plan may be to take $$$ from needy Americans and hand it over to the MIC?

    Trump signals welfare reform is next, with details to come
    [​IMG]
    Associated Press
    By CATHERINE LUCEY, Associated Press
    3 hrs ago



    WASHINGTON — Welfare reform was one of the defining issues of President Bill Clinton's presidency, starting with a campaign promise to "end welfare as we know it," continuing with a bitter policy fight and producing an overhaul law that remains hotly debated 20 years later.

    Now, President Donald Trump wants to put his stamp on the welfare system.

    Trump, who has been signaling interest in the issue for some time, said Monday at a Cabinet meeting that he wants to tackle welfare reform after the tax overhaul he is seeking by the end of the year. He said changes were "desperately needed in our country" and that his administration would soon offer plans.

    For now, the president has not offered details. Spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders said more specifics were likely early next year. But the groundwork has already begun at the White House and Trump has made his interest known to Republican lawmakers.

    Paul Winfree, director of budget policy and deputy director of the Domestic Policy Council, told a gathering at the conservative Heritage Foundation last week that he and another staffer had been charged with "working on a major welfare reform proposal," adding that they have drafted an executive order on the topic that would outline administration principles and direct agencies to come up with recommendations.

    "The president really wants to lead on this. He has delivered that message loud and clear to us. We've opened conversations with leadership in Congress to let them know that that is the direction we are heading," Winfree said.

    Trump said in October that welfare reform was "becoming a very, very big subject, and people are taking advantage of the system."

    Welfare reform proved challenging for Clinton, who ran in 1992 on a promise to "end welfare as we know it," but struggled to get consensus on a bill, with Democrats divided and Republicans pushing aggressive changes. Amid that conflict, he signed a law in 1996 that replaced a federal entitlement with grants to the states, placed a time limit on how long families could get aid and required recipients to go to work eventually.

    It has drawn criticism from some liberal quarters ever since. During her presidential campaign last year, Democrat Hillary Clinton faced activists who argued that the law punished poor people.

    Kathryn Edin, a professor at Johns Hopkins University who has been studying welfare since the 1990s, said the law's legacy has been to limit the cash assistance available to the very poor and has never become a "springboard to work." She questioned what kinds of changes could be made, arguing that welfare benefits are minimal in many states and that there is little evidence of fraud in other anti-poverty programs.

    Still, Edin said that welfare has "never been popular even from its inception. It doesn't sit well with Americans in general."

    Robert Rector, a senior research fellow at Heritage, said he would like to see more work requirements for a range of anti-poverty programs and stronger marriage incentives, as well as strategies to improve outcomes for social programs and to limit waste. He said while the administration could make some adjustments through executive order, legislation would be required for any major change.

    "This is a good system. We just need to make this system better," he said.

    Administration officials have already suggested they are eyeing anti-poverty programs. Trump's initial 2018 budget proposal, outlined in March, sought to sharply reduce spending for Medicaid, food stamps and student loan subsidies, among other programs.

    Budget director Mick Mulvaney said earlier this year, "If you are on food stamps and you are able-bodied, we need you to go to work."

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...tails-to-come/ar-BBFz9Hu?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp
     
  14. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Really? You can't "take away" something that's a handout and not earned in the first place. That would be called "cutting them off" or "stopping the bleeding".
     
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  15. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Trump to visit Senate next week before make-or-break showdown on tax reform as Congress wrestles with packed last days of the year
    • President Donald Trump meets with the Senate GOP conference next week
    • The Senate could vote as soon as Thursday on $1.4 trillion cut
    • The House passed its version of a tax cut before Thanksgiving
    • Administration has shown flexibility on provision to repeal Obamacare mandate
    • Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska said she would support repeal
    • Other GOP senators raised concerns about long term debt burden
    • Republicans using special procedure so they don't need Democratic votes


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5114749/Trump-visit-Senate-make-break-tax-vote.html#ixzz4zS0cdpsP
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  16. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Despite skeptical public, GOP pushing ahead on tax-cut plan


    [​IMG]
    The Washington Post
    Paul Kane
    14 hrs ago


    Republicans are pushing full steam ahead on their tax-cut plan, despite a steady dose of polling that shows more Americans are opposed rather than supportive of the sweeping proposal to reduce corporate rates and some individual tax bills.

    In pushing so hard, Republicans are betting that they can sell this plan to the skeptical public once the legislation is signed into law by President Trump and workers see a boost in take-home pay. They are not dismissive of the polling, but they believe that they can make it popular enough next year to save their congressional majorities in the midterm elections.

    "I fundamentally believe when we do this — make good on our word, make good on our promise, make people's lives better — we're going to be just fine politically," House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) told reporters the week before the House passed its tax-cut plan Nov. 16.

    One can almost hear the echo of a previous House speaker pushing legislation in the early days of a new administration, as the proposal and the president started to get unpopular.

    "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what's in it," Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), then the House speaker and now minority leader, said before final passage of the Affordable Care Act.

    Pelosi's opponents accused Democrats of approving a major law without ever reading it, taking her words out of context. What Pelosi was trying to say was quite similar to what Ryan is now saying: Once the law is passed and the public sees its impact, voters will like its benefits.

    Instead, opponents branded the ACA as "Obamacare" and it remained unpopular for most of Barack Obama's presidency. In December 2009, after the House approved its version and the Senate was gearing up for a Christmas Eve vote, just 44 percent of voters supported the health proposal and 51 percent opposed it, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll.

    The GOP tax proposal is slightly less popular at almost the same stage of the process: Just 33 percent of adults support Trump's tax plan while 50 percent oppose it, according to this month's Post-ABC News poll.

    Support for the ACA barely moved ahead of the 2010 elections and Democrats lost the House majority in a 63-seat blowout.

    In 2016, Obama's last year in office, the public began to appreciate the health law. By August of this year, after Republicans failed in their bid to repeal the law, 52 percent of voters supported the ACA and just 39 percent opposed it, according to a Kaiser Health Tracking Poll.

    Republicans can take some solace in that groundswell of ACA support, showing how the public can warm up to once unpopular laws. The question for Republicans is whether, if they pass their tax plan, they can convince the public that it was a good thing to do in time for next year's elections.

    Democrats are driving home that the relief for corporate tax rates, from 35 percent down to 20 percent, is permanent while the lower rates for individuals expire after 10 years. "Republicans are openly looting the hard-earned income of the American middle class to hand tax breaks to the wealthiest one percent and corporations," Pelosi said.

    To counter that charge, Republicans have been circulating data, polling and focus group feedback to try to win back the public on a traditional GOP issue. The key ingredient is talking about workers seeing more money in their paychecks and not getting focused on large macroeconomic theory.

    "As a stand-alone, tax reform is a moderate priority, but in its ability to impact the economy, jobs and wages, it is a huge priority," David Winston and Myra Miller, co-founders of the Winston Group, a Republican polling firm, wrote in a late July memo.

    Several of these Winston Group memos, sent to congressional leaders and K Street allies, were provided by recipients who have been sharing the firm's work to unsteady lawmakers to shore up their vote and help them explain it back home.

    Republicans also believe that taxes and the economy are a better issue set. In the Winston memo, voters chose Republicans by 8 percentage points over Democrats to handle the economy and by 4 percentage points on taxes, while Democrats held a margin of 12 percent on health care.

    Also, there is a political imperative to deliver results, given how frustrated conservatives are with the lack of output so far. Most House Republicans represent less affluent, somewhat rural districts where the vast majority of workers do not itemize their taxes. That means lower rates would benefit constituents in deep-red districts because the elimination of other deductions will not hit them.

    For Republicans fearing a primary challenge, this tax plan is something to sell to conservative voters. "They need to put a product on the table," said former congressman Tom Davis, who served as the House Republican campaign chief for four years last decade.

    But the proposed elimination or reduction of some deductions, particularly state and local taxes, hurts in the suburbs. And several dozen of the most targeted Republicans represent wealthy suburban districts where quite a few of those constituents will see a net tax hike.

    "The people that itemize are the swing voters," Davis said.

    Some Republicans are urging lawmakers to focus on other proposals inside the massive legislation. "In the immediate term, it will deliver tangible relief — in doubling the standard deduction, lowering rates, and increasing the child tax credit — to middle class families," said Michael Steel, a former House GOP leadership aide working with an outside coalition supporting the proposal.

    Yet, during 2009 and 2010 push for the ACA, when Steel worked for John A. Boehner (R-Ohio), then the minority leader, Republicans successfully defined the proposal for many voters as a government takeover of the health industry. Other popular provisions — allowing children to stay on their parents plan until age 25, ensuring coverage for preexisting conditions — could not overcome the general disdain toward the ACA.

    Eight years later, Pelosi and Democrats are working overtime to do to the tax plan what Republicans did to the ACA.

    And Ryan is adamant that, once the bill is signed into law, voters will like what they see.

    "This is not unpopular. We're actually letting people keep more of their own money," Ryan told reporters, citing the benefits to come. "That's not an unpopular thing to do."

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...-tax-cut-plan/ar-BBFCsTG?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=iehp
     
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  17. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    The bias in the above sets a new standard
     
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  18. Irons

    Irons Deep Sixed Site Supporter Mother Lode

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    Yep. They still haven't learned nobody is listening to them anymore.

    .
     
  19. Rusty Shackelford

    Rusty Shackelford Midas Member Midas Member

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    The problem with any tax plan is that Americans don’t understand basic math.
     
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  20. anywoundedduck

    anywoundedduck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Whatever happened to simplified one page tax plan without 500 pages of Lobbiests induced proposals and amendments?
     
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  21. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    According to MSN, the Merican' people are against it
     
  22. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Nor want to.
     
  23. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Trump, the GOP tax scheme, and the 2 different 'awfuls' threatening America | Will Bunch
    Updated: November 26, 2017 — 12:16 PM EST

    by Will Bunch, STAFF COLUMNIST


    On Thanksgiving morning, I woke up with CNN on my TV so I could witness something truly remarkable. For a complete hour news cycle, it was pretty much all Men Behaving (Very) Badly, all the time. Much of the 60-minute span focused on the new allegation du jourthe leaked nude photos of conservative Texas GOP Rep. Joe Barton, and questions about whether he’d threatened to sic the Capitol Police on the leaker in retaliation. But there was also the ongoing Roy Moore follies in Alabama, and – for partisan balance – a new sexual misbehavior allegation or two involving Minnesota Democratic Sen. Al Franken.

    On one hand, the airing of these grievances against powerful men in high political places – all accused of using their position and their privilege to abuse, demean, devalue and threaten women in some way – was more proof that a full-blown social revolution is underway in America. And, as I’ve written recently, it’s long overdue. And the fact that CNN considers this story worthy of such extensive coverage is an affirmation of that. But…

    On the other hand, I also listened in vain for the dog that did not bark. What about all the stories that CNN wasn’t covering that hour, as it focused on the predatory sex habits of the rich and famous. Nothing was uttered in that hour about the GOP tax scheme to use deficit spending to funnel hundreds of billions of dollars into the wallets of the super-rich and the bank accounts of the biggest corporations. Or the just-announced push by the Federal Communications Commission to cripple the open internet. Or the latest scientific funding that a fast-melting Antarctic ice shelf could inundate the world’s great coastal cities … even as the Trump administration races to install climate deniers in key government posts.

    Then, as the 72 holes of a Very Trump Thanksgiving dragged on, the president’s inane tweets – like his “I am breaking up with you” preemptive potshot at Time magazine for when it doesn’t name The Donald its Person of the Year next month – hijacked the news cycle. It was a reminder of the growing dismay that many Americans feel over such an unstable and small-minded man – almost certainly afflicted with narcissistic personality disorder, and that’s a best-case scenario – with possession of the nuclear football.

    Trump is the new omnipresent “awful” in America – openly racist (his Twitter wars with black athletes, his whiff on Charlottesville), misogynistic (lack of female U.S. attorneys and judges, his own sexual-abuse scandal), corrupt, impulsive and thus dangerous. That is the “news” – literally, what’s new – in 2017, and it’s hard for many folks (this columnist included) to focus on anything else.

    But “Trump awful” isn’t the only “awful” front and center in American politics these days. Indeed, “Trump awful” co-exists and builds upon – even as it often stands largely outside of – a second powerful force that has been steadily gaining steam for more than a generation. It is this second force that – back when Trump was just a Manhattan developer up to his neck in Chapter 11 paperwork – was already out doing the hard work of crushing the middle class, enriching the powerful, and planting the dark seeds of doubt about science, our free press and our democratic norms.

    Let’s call it “GOP awful” – the more traditional strand of modern conservatism that brought us income inequality, climate denial and many of the other pathologies that Trump either tolerated or adopted in order to win the Republican presidential nomination while satisfying his last-chance ego drive for the White House. The irony is that with “Trump awful” the bright shiny object that’s impossible to ignore, “GOP awful” is on the brink of its greatest and most diabolical victory ever, the biggest legal wealth grab for the rich and powerful in the history of the United States.

    It’s hard to say what’s more alarming about the GOP tax scheme as it takes shape in Washington – the economic and political havoc that would be wreaked by its enactment, or the speed and lack of a well-organized opposition as this little-understood and even less-debated piece of bad legislation races toward President Trump’s desk. Here’s just a few of the ways that “GOP awful” is producing an awful new tax code.

    – It will saddle our children and grandchildren with a whopping $1.5 trillion in new debt (in its most recent version), not for any productive purpose like new roads or solar farms, but largely to pay for mega-rich families like the Trumps to pass their wealth down to their heirs, and for large corporations – already making record profits – to funnel even more money to their investors.

    – For middle-class Americans, who’ve been struggling to tread water for the last three decades and who, in large numbers, looked to Trump last fall thinking he’d fight The Establishment on their behalf, the GOP tax scheme is largely a con job; in the early year of the bill, the benefits to the middle class are notably less than those paid out to the richest of the rich, and by 2027 – under the Senate version – more than half of middle-class and upper-middle-class families would actually be paying more in federal taxes.

    – In order to try and appease its handful of deficit hawks, the Senate bill seeks to pay for its corporate and billionaire tax cuts by ending the health insurance mandate, which would mean 13 million would lose their coverage. That’s right – some Americans will literally be dying for a corporate tax cut.

    – More so than any previous tax overhaul in American history, the current GOP proposals were crafted with the clear idea of punishing Americans with opposing political views, by taking aim at deductions for state and local taxes, which tend to be largest in states like California, New York, and New Jersey, which voted for Hillary Clinton in 2016 and which won’t vote for a Republican in 2020 even if global warming doesn’t prevent hell from freezing over. Likewise, the bill vacuums up dollars from folks like grad students and even the $250 deduction that doesn’t even cover the supplies that most teachers (not big GOP fans, generally) in poor districts like Philadelphia or Chester have to buy for their kids.

    What’s so terrible about corporate tax cuts? The concept isn’t inherently evil, but the idea is being sold on the back of a frequent Trumpian falsehood that U.S. Big Business is the highest taxed in the world (not even close). But the bigger lie is the one told by both Trump and top Republicans on Capitol Hill – that corporate tax cuts are needed to help “the job creators.” But companies have no obligation to spend their tax-cut dollars on new jobs, and the overwhelming evidence is that they won’t. Their No. 1 responsibility is to their shareholders, and that’s who’ll pocket this money. It’s the ultimate case of Wall Street over Main Street.

    Is it any wonder that poll after poll has shown the tax plan is wildly unpopular among voters – at least, the ones who are actually paying attention? So why even do it? Here’s where the concept of “the two awfuls” in U.S. politics becomes so important.

    “Trump awful” could honestly care less about any of the details of the actual bill. The president’s childlike, dictator-flavored dream is to sign grandiose legislation that will demonstrate his own oversized importance and stroke his insecure ego. He’s thrilled to leave the dirty work to someone else. This marriage of “Trump awful” and “GOP awful” is one of convenience; the president needs someone to pass legislation and the Republican Congress – after eight years of Barack Obama – has someone with an itchy signature finger eager to sign whatever pro-corporate and pro-millionaire dreck they can come up with. The blessing for regular folks is that none of this dreck has passed … yet.

    So “GOP awful” is racing to pass this bill and prove to the nation that its legislators – after (thankfully) flubbing Obamacare – are truly capable of passing something, anything. If the lawmakers were smart, they’d pass an actual middle-class tax cut – but that would offend the hedge fund billionaires, the oil-rich Koch brothers, and the other large donors that 2018 Republicans desperately need to fund their campaigns, to win anything in the face of voter anger over “Trump awful.” And unlike the original full-blown repeal of Obamacare – the terribleness of millions of people losing their health coverage something the average angry voter could easily grasp – there’s just enough smoke and mirrors in the tax scheme to bamboozle not just citizens but too many in a too-gullible media.

    Hopefully, America won’t wake up to CNN some morning in the next couple of weeks to learn – wedged between the latest Hollywood sex predator and Trump’s Twitter war with a black hockey player (I’m guessing here) – that the biggest wealth grab in America was passed with little debate, little media coverage, and little public protest. This would be a very good time to call your congressman or senator, or even take it to the streets as if the very foundation of American democracy was fundamentally threatened by this tax bill … because it is. It’s going to be so easy to be distracted by Trump’s tweets and his fundamental unfitness for the presidency, but the real action is on Capitol Hill. Just remember, there’s not one but two “awfuls” in the American body politic, and “Trump awful” isn’t the one grabbing for your wallet this week.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/column...-threatening-america-will-bunch-20171126.html
     
  24. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    How the GOP tax overhaul could ruin Phil Murphy's plan to tax New Jersey millionaires
    Updated: November 25, 2017 — 11:24 AM EST

    by Andrew Seidman, Staff Writer


    New Jersey Gov.-elect Phil Murphy campaigned on a promise to raise taxes on thousands of wealthy residents to pay for a sweeping progressive agenda that includes more money for schools, public workers’ pensions, and transit.

    At least one component of that plan seemed like a layup: The Democratic-controlled Legislature has voted five times since 2010 to raise taxes on millionaires. Gov. Christie’s veto pen was the only thing that stood in the way.

    But now, the GOP proposal in Washington to overhaul the tax code may throw a wrench into Murphy’s plans to create what he calls a “stronger and fairer” economy in the Garden State. Leading Democrats in Trenton have warned that the Republican-led congressional efforts to eliminate or cap the state and local tax deduction could imperil plans for the so-called millionaires’ tax.

    “If this [tax overhaul] actually does happen, I am very concerned about the exodus of wealthy people … that pay a large portion of our tax base,” Senate President Steve Sweeney (D., Gloucester) said in an interview with Fox Business on Tuesday. “It’s something we can’t just cavalierly go forward with and think, ‘Oh, we don’t have to worry about it, they’re always going to be here.’ ”

    The tax fight also shows the hurdles Murphy faces in keeping his pledge to stand up to President Trump.

    And it comes as lawmakers and other Trenton observers wonder how Murphy will roll out his agenda. Some New Jersey Democrats fear that they could look just as gridlocked as Republicans in Washington — who stumbled out of the gate with a botched effort to repeal the Affordable Care Act — despite retaining control of both houses of the Legislature and retaking the governor’s mansion in this month’s elections.

    Murphy’s Republican opponent in the governor’s race, Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno, warned in a campaign ad that if he delivered on his tax promises, he would be “the only one who can afford to live in New Jersey.”

    A day after Murphy was elected, Sweeney said raising taxes on millionaires would be the Legislature’s first priority when Murphy takes office in January.

    By the following week, House Republicans in Washington had passed their tax bill.

    Republicans want to lower taxes for corporations, reduce income tax rates in some brackets, and increase the standard deduction. To pay for it, they propose scaling back or eliminating a number of tax breaks, including the deduction for state and local taxes.

    Current law allows people to write off a number of taxes they pay to their state and local governments, such as levies on real estate, personal property, income, and sales.

    About 40 percent of tax filers in New Jersey claim the deduction, for an average amount of $18,000, according to IRS data. Scrapping the deduction is projected to save $1.8 trillion over the next decade.

    The House version of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act would allow taxpayers to deduct up to $10,000 on real estate taxes. The Senate, currently planning to eliminate the state and local deductions altogether, is set to take up its bill after it returns from the Thanksgiving recess.

    “We have to hope and pray and do everything we can to make sure the Senate comes out in a different place than the House,” Murphy told reporters Monday in Trenton. “That’s Job Number One that’s immediately before us.”

    Murphy says he wants to raise taxes on millionaires to “fully fund” public schools, which he argues Christie underfunded by $9 billion over eight years.

    The state would need to spend $1 billion more annually, or about 3 percent of its $35 billion budget, to comply with its school-funding formula.

    It’s hard to imagine that Murphy could come close to meeting his education-funding goals without the income tax hike. Nearly 20,000 tax filers reported more than $1 million in taxable income in 2014, the most recent year for which state Treasury Department data were available. Budget analysts estimate the tax could produce $650 million annually.

    Sweeney proposes raising the tax rate on income above $1 million from 8.97 percent to 10.75 percent. Former Democratic Gov. Jon Corzine added that top rate for one year in 2009; Christie nixed it when he took office the following year.

    Murphy has not released a specific tax plan. He also proposes legalizing and taxing marijuana and closing “corporate loopholes” he says allow companies to park profits in lower-tax states.

    Also on Murphy’s agenda: nearly doubling the state minimum wage to $15 and mandating that employers provide paid sick leave. But in recent years Democrats have sparred over how to reach those goals.

    How Murphy handles the tax fight — and negotiates school-funding priorities with other Democrats like Sweeney — may set the tone for these and other debates in his first 100 days.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/news/p...tax-new-jersey-gop-tax-overhaul-20171125.html
     
  25. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    GOP leaders in advanced talks to change tax plan in bid to win over holdouts

    [​IMG]
    The Washington Post
    Damian Paletta
    2 hrs ago



    Senate Republicans are seriously considering several last-minute changes to their tax legislation in an effort to mollify wavering members, four people familiar with the discussions said, as GOP leaders seek to keep their members from defecting ahead of crucial votes this week.

    The lawmakers attracting the most concern from leadership and the White House are Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.) and Steve Daines (R-Mont.), who say the current version of the bill favors corporations over other businesses.

    There are numerous members demanding changes, and their needs don’t all overlap. Together, the requests put Republican leaders in a difficult position, as they attempt to accommodate individual holdouts on a one-off basis without losing other members or creating a situation in which the bill collapses under the weight of disparate demands.

    Adding to the leaders’ difficulty, the total size of the tax plan cannot be more than $1.5 trillion over a decade, so adding new benefits could force Republicans to find ways to raise additional revenue. Presently, they only have roughly $80 billion in wiggle room to use, a small sum because many of the changes would be spread out over 10 years.

    The four people spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the internal discussions.

    Johnson and Daines want changes to the bill they believe would help certain companies that file through the individual income tax code. These companies, often known as “pass-throughs,” can be small businesses but also include larger firms with many employees. There are millions of such companies in the United States, and they account for the bulk of U.S. firms.

    Currently, in the Senate bill, these companies are allowed to deduct 17.4 percent of their income from their tax liability. Negotiators are looking at expanding that credit up to about 20 percent, two of the people said.

    It’s unclear if Johnson would accept these changes as sufficient, and a final decision hasn’t been made. If Republican leaders believe Johnson’s demands have become too unreasonable, they could try and forge ahead without his vote.

    Spokesmen for Johnson and Daines didn’t have an immediate comment on the discussions.

    There are 52 Republicans in the 100-seat Senate, and GOP leaders can only afford to lose two votes if they want to pass their bill because Democrats are expected to unite in opposition against it. Typically, tax bills require 60 votes in order to clear procedural hurdles, but Republicans are trying to pass the package through a process known as “reconciliation” that only requires a majority of votes.

    At least six GOP members have raised concerns about specific provisions in the GOP tax bill, though none has flatly said they plan to vote against it this week. Johnson came closest, saying he opposed the measure but later suggesting he could support it with changes.

    Senate Republicans have received criticism because their tax plan does not allow individuals, families, and pass-through companies to deduct their state and local taxes from their taxable income. The tax plan does allow firms that pay corporate income taxes to deduct their state and local taxes.

    To create more parity, negotiators are considering putting new curbs on the ability of corporations to deduct state and local taxes from their income. The money this change frees up could be used for other tax benefits for companies.

    Senate Republicans are also seriously considering a change requested by Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine), which would allow Americans to deduct $10,000 in local property taxes from their taxable income. This provision was in a bill that passed the House of Representatives, but it is not in the Senate bill. Though Collins has voiced the most concerns about its absence, other members have quietly said they also want the change to be made.

    Making this change could cost more than $100 billion over 10 years and would probably require Republicans to find new money to offset it.

    The changes could be made — or attempted to be made — over the course of the week.

    Voting on the tax measure is scheduled to begin Tuesday, as the Senate Budget Committee plans to take a procedural step that afternoon that would effectively send the tax bill to the Senate floor. But Johnson is on the budget panel, and he could demand changes by Tuesday in order to win his vote. If he blocks the tax bill in the Budget Committee and is joined by Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.), who has raised separate concerns, the package could quickly die.

    The tax package is a combination of changes for companies and individuals that would lower rates in a way Republicans say would lead to more growth and hiring. But Democrats have said the tax changes are uneven, offering long-term benefits for companies and the wealthy and temporary tax cuts for individuals and families. It would add between $1.4 trillion and $1.5 trillion to the debt over 10 years, budget forecasters have said, though Democrats and Republicans differ over how much economic growth the plan would trigger.

    Erica Werner contributed to this report.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...bid-to-win-over-holdouts/ar-BBFHUj2?ocid=iehp
     
  26. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Wont be a tax bill, the dems and rinos will , should say have , banded together to prevent Trump from having a major accomplishment
     
  27. gnome

    gnome Platinum Bling Platinum Bling

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    The same thing that is happening to the middle class... vanishing act.
     
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  28. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    "It’s A Mammoth Task"- Senate Faces Thursday Vote Showdown In "Most Critical Week" For Tax Reform

    [​IMG]
    by Tyler Durden
    Nov 27, 2017 7:42 AM


    In what is shaping up as a critical week for the future of Trump's and the GOP's tax reform, Senators return from Thanksgiving break, and look ahead to a marathon debate this week with the aim to hold a floor vote as early as Thursday according to Bloomberg, which notes that should the vote pass, Republican leaders will have to hammer out a compromise between different provisions in the House and Senate bills.

    Without a single major legislative victory for the Trump administration and Republicans, it is hard to understate just how critical a tax bill victory would be with year end fast approaching, abd amid concerns that the Democrats could triumph in the Alabama election, there’s a real sense of urgency.

    For now, Republican lawmakers told Bloomberg they are still committed to finalizing the bill by Christmas as Senator Scott noted “I hope we can get it done by Christmas…if not, we’ll be here through Christmas, looking at the end of the year”.

    Unfortunately for Republicans, it won't be that easy.

    As a reminder, the Republican leadership can afford to lose no more than two votes with Politico reporting over the weekend that as many as six Republican Senators are still withholding their support. Or rather one: Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson said last week that he will not vote for the bill. The problem is that there are many other potential names who are still on the fence: Senators Susan Collins of Maine, Jeff Flake of Arizona, John McCain of Arizona, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Bob Corker of Tennessee have yet to say whether they'll support the measure. Overnight, Steve Daines of Montana was also been added as per Axios: ‘He hasn't gone public with his concerns, but is withholding his support for the bill because he believes it favors corporations over other types of businesses.

    As Bloomberg also notes, "the bill’s path to passage isn’t clear yet. Three Republicans -- Tennessee’s Bob Corker, Arizona’s Jeff Flake and Oklahoma’s James Lankford -- have raised concerns about the measure’s effects on the nation’s debt, and Corker has said he won’t support legislation that adds to the deficit. He has said he’d allow for “reasonable” estimates of economic growth."

    GOP Senator John Thune of South Dakota said on “Fox News Sunday” that even a small uptick in growth “would cover the cost” of the tax bill. But so far, he and other Senate leaders lack official findings to back their assertions.

    Murkowski had been seen as a potential “no” vote on the tax legislation because of its proposal to end the “individual mandate” from the Obamacare law that requires people to purchase health insurance or pay a fine. But last week, she wrote in an op-ed for Alaska’s Daily News-Miner newspaper that she would support ending the mandate.

    Doing so would raise roughly $318 billion by 2027, according to CBO estimates, because some 13 million people would drop their individual insurance -- and wouldn’t tap federal subsidies to help pay for it. Murkowski’s acceptance of the Obamacare provision in the tax bill may clear the way for her support, though Senator Susan Collins of Maine has also said she has concerns about the health-care provision.

    Clearly, if any of these Senators go against the bill, then tax hopes will tank in the Senate, the same way the Senate scuttled Trump's attempt to repeal Obamacare with the blessings of JOhn McCain. Understandably then, there is a lot of working going on behind the scenes to prevent such a scenario as Citi observes. Trump hinted as such in his latest tweet: ‘Back in D.C., big week for Tax Cuts and many other things of great importance to our Country. Senate Republicans will hopefully come through for all of us. The Tax Cut Bill is getting better and better. The end result will be great for ALL!

    On Sunday afternoon, the Washington Post reported that Senate Republicans are seriously considering several last-minute changes to their tax legislation in an effort to mollify wavering members, according to four people familiar with the discussions.

    Back door deals aside, here are the next steps:
    • On Tuesday, the Senate Budget Committee is scheduled to meet on the tax legislation at 2:30 p.m. The panel, which has 12 Republicans and 11 Democrats, could decide to send the tax bill to the Senate floor. Trump is also scheduled to attend the regular policy lunch held by Senate Republicans.
    • If all goes well for GOP leaders, the Senate may begin floor debate, which would culminate perhaps Wednesday or Thursday in a “vote-a-rama”-- a chaotic session in which any senator can offer an amendment to the bill. Democrats would be expected to offer a variety of amendments designed to damage, delay or derail the measure -- which may lead to some political fireworks. The voting would probably take place overnight.
    • If Republicans have the 50 votes they need, Senate leaders may call for a floor vote on Thursday or Friday.
    Trump will also be busy, selling his tax proposal – on Monday he will have lunch with the Senate Finance Committee to talk about tax reform today, and meet with Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Paul Ryan, and Mitch McConnell to discuss the year-end spending deal on Tuesday.

    Given the high stakes, Senate Republicans & Trump administration will do everything they can to get the tax bill through. Still, with six unknowns, "it’s a mammoth task" according to Citi. Markets seem cautious about tax bill hopes. USD positioning in the last week has been characterized by selling and squaring, while Monday’s price action so far has seen USD offered across the board. Thus one can argue that there’s more room for a rally on positive tax bill developments than a sell-off on negative news. Watch the flashing red headlines.

    Finally, from a market standpoint, recall that according to Goldman the passage of the tax bill means all the difference between a 2,850 year end price target for 2018, and a quick plunge back to 2,400.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...sk-senate-faces-most-critical-week-tax-reform
     
  29. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Senate Tax Bill’s Potential Hurdle: Republicans
    By JIM TANKERSLEY
    NOV. 27, 2017



    WASHINGTON — Senate Republicans will speed their tax plan toward a possible floor vote this week, and liberal activists will ramp up their efforts to block the bill, in what promises to be a frenzied stretch of an already breakneck attempt to complete a tax overhaul by Christmas.

    With several Republican senators not yet committed to supporting the $1.5 trillion tax plan, the week is expected to be punctuated by behind-the-scenes arm twisting and deal-making as Republican leaders work to find enough votes to pass the bill along party lines. At least a half-dozen senators have raised concerns about the bill, including its potential to add to the federal deficit and a provision that would eliminate the Affordable Care Act requirement that most Americans have health insurance or pay a penalty.

    “I think in the end we’ll get the votes,” Senator John Thune of South Dakota, the Republican conference chairman, told “Fox News Sunday” this week. “But it’s a process and — a legislative process. It takes time to move it across the finish line. But I think we’ll get a bill to the president.”

    Recent national polls show the plan fails to garner the support of a majority of Americans; several polls show a majority actually opposing it. Republicans in Congress have rallied behind the plan, cheered on by business lobbyists, conservative donors and many Republican economists. Party leaders remain optimistic that it could pass the Senate by the end of the week, two weeks after a companion version passed the House and barely a month after the first draft of the legislation was introduced on Capitol Hill.

    The Republican effort will proceed on two tracks, in the plain view of Senate business and in closed-door negotiations among the party’s 52 members in the chamber. Those negotiations are necessary to assuage several senators who have raised public or private concerns with the legislation.

    The talks could result in substantial changes to the bill before it reaches the Senate floor as soon as midweek, or, more likely, in amendments that the full Senate would vote on.

    The tax bill would sharply reduce the corporate tax rate and reconfigure the system by which multinational companies pay taxes to the United States government. It would also reduce tax rates for individuals while eliminating some deductions, including those for state and local taxes, and allow noncorporate businesses an additional deduction. The package is projected to cost the government nearly $1.5 trillion in tax revenues over a decade, before additional economic growth is factored in.

    The corporate changes would be permanent, but those for individuals and so-called pass-through businesses would be set to expire at the end of 2025, in order to comply with Senate budget rules. The House bill, however, makes the individual cuts permanent, and that is one of many differences with the Senate legislation that will ultimately need to be resolved before the bill is sent to the president.

    Any bill that passes the Senate is likely to differ in significant ways from the House-passed version, and Republican leaders in both chambers have said repeatedly that such differences will be worked out in a formal conference committee.

    But a White House official said this weekend that the administration’s current strategy is to skip that step — incorporating whatever changes need to be made to satisfy House Republicans while the bill is still pending in the Senate, so that the House could simply approve the Senate version and send the bill directly to Mr. Trump for his signature.

    Much of the action this week will be dictated by obscure Senate budget rules, which is what will allow Republicans to move the bill without any Democratic votes. The bill has already passed the Senate Finance Committee. It next goes to the Budget Committee, which will meet Tuesday to join the tax provisions to a bill that will allow energy exploration in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, a move that has long been a priority for Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, a Republican widely seen as a key vote on the tax bill.

    Ms. Murkowski gave supporters of the tax bill optimism last week when she wrote that she was amenable to the bill’s inclusion of a provision that would repeal the so-called individual mandate required by the Affordable Care Act. Other Republicans still loom as potential roadblocks for the bill, including Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, who has criticized its treatment of small businesses that are organized as pass-through companies, and Bob Corker of Tennessee and Jeff Flake of Arizona; each has warned about the tax bill’s potential to bloat the national debt.

    Satisfying any one holdout could inflame others; for example, if Mr. Johnson succeeds in securing more generous tax cuts for pass-through businesses, the bill’s fiscal cost will likely rise, potentially upsetting Mr. Corker and other Republicans who have raised deficit concerns.

    Both Mr. Johnson and Mr. Corker sit on the Budget Committee, and together they could slow or stop the bill’s progress there. If they chose not to, the bill would advance to the Senate floor, where senators would begin 20 hours of debate and amendments, leading up to a final vote.

    Liberal activists are hoping to spark a public backlash to defeat it. The activist group Indivisible has planned a “day of action” against the bill on Monday, while the group Organizing for Action has one planned for Tuesday. The group Not One Penny, which advocates against tax cuts for the rich, has nearly three dozen protests planned around the nation within the next week.

    “The Senate’s tax vote this week, and the public’s reaction to it, will shape our economy and politics for a generation,” said Ben Wikler, the Washington director of the activist group MoveOn, which is organizing what it calls “Tax Scam Caroling” across the country from Wednesday through Saturday. “Anyone who doesn’t want a country run by and for the people at the very top should be in the streets.”

    Similar protests helped maintain a tide of public opposition to the Republican plan to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act earlier this year, which eventually failed in the Senate. Republican leaders appear confident that this round will be different, in part because their members are united by the need for a legislative victory.

    “We need to get this accomplishment,” Mr. Thune said on Sunday. “This is a goal that we’ve had for a long time. The tax code in this country needs to be changed if we’re going to be competitive in the global marketplace.”

    Peter Baker contributed reporting.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/27/us/politics/senate-tax-bills-potential-hurdle-republicans.html
     
  30. CrimsonGuardJay

    CrimsonGuardJay Silver Member Silver Miner

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    What I find funny about this is how people constantly say it’s for the rich, for the rich, etc etc...

    When it cuts the middle class family taxes from 35% down to 25% (HUGE difference) and doesn’t affect anyone’s tax rates on earners above 500k.

    Seriously, get a clue.
     
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  31. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Senators consider automatic tax hikes if revenue falls short

    STEPHEN OHLEMACHER and MARCY GORDON
    Associated Press
    November 27, 2017



    WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Republicans are considering a trigger that would automatically increase taxes if their sweeping legislation fails to generate as much revenue as they expect. It's an effort to mollify deficit hawks who worry that tax cuts for businesses and individuals will add to the nation's already mounting debt.

    The effort comes as a second Republican senator, Steve Daines of Montana, announced Monday that he opposes the tax bill in its current form. Previously, Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wis., said he opposed the bill, leaving Senate Republicans no room for error as they hope to vote on the bill this week.

    Both senators complained that the tax bill favors large corporations over small businesses. Republicans have only two votes to spare in the Senate, where they hold a 52-48 edge and anticipate Vice President Mike Pence breaking a tie.

    At the White House, President Donald Trump maintained that the bill would help all Americans.

    "I think it's going to benefit everybody," the president said. "It's going to mostly benefit people looking for jobs more than anything else, because we're giving great incentives."

    Senate Republicans indicated that they still had a way to go to secure the votes.

    "We're making progress, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day. But we're not there yet," said Texas Sen. John Cornyn, the No. 2 Republican in the Senate. Pressed on timing, he said the expectation is a vote this week.

    A new congressional estimate says the Senate tax bill would add $1.4 trillion to the budget deficit over the next decade. But GOP leaders dispute the estimate, saying tax cuts will spur economic growth, reducing the hit on the deficit.

    Many economists disagree with such optimistic projections. The trigger would be a way for senators to test their economic assumptions, with real consequences if they are wrong.

    "Do we have realistic numbers and is there a backstop in the process just in case we don't?" asked Sen. James Lankford, R-Okla.

    "We should build in the 'What if?' What if this doesn't work?" Lankford said. "What changes might be needed in the tax code in the days ahead to be able to adjust in what scenario?"

    Sen. Bob Corker, R-Tenn., said the Trump administration and Senate Republican leaders are open to some kind of a trigger to increase revenues if the tax plan falls short.

    Neither Corker nor Lankford spelled out exactly how the trigger would work, noting that senators are still working on the proposal. Sen. Rob Portman, R-Ohio, said the trigger is possible. But, he added, the proposal could run afoul of the Senate's byzantine budget rules.

    Trump and Senate Republicans scrambled Monday to make changes to the bill in an effort to win over holdout GOP senators and pass a tax package by the end of the year. Corker said he spoke to White House Chief of Staff John Kelly and economic adviser Gary Cohn throughout the weekend, and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin was at his Senate office on Monday.

    "Very possible," Corker said when asked if he might vote "no" in the Senate Budget Committee on Tuesday if the revenue issue isn't settled. "It's important for me to know we've got this resolved," he said.

    Johnson told Wisconsin reporters on Monday, "If we develop a fix prior to committee, I'll probably support it, but if we don't I'll vote against it."

    Trump and Senate leaders are trying to balance competing demands. While some senators fear the package's debt consequences, others want more generous tax breaks for businesses. In a boost for the legislation, Republican Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky said he would back the measure.

    Trump hosted Republican members of the Senate Finance Committee at the White House on Monday. GOP leaders were still trying to round up the votes in the Senate to pass the bill.

    Whatever the Senate passes must be reconciled with the House version of the tax bill.

    Trump suggested he is open to making unspecified changes to the way millions of "pass-through" businesses are taxed, a sticking point for some lawmakers. These are businesses in which profits are passed onto the owners, who report the income on their individual tax returns. The vast majority of U.S. businesses, big and small, are taxed this way.

    Both Daines and Johnson said the current bill doesn't cut business taxes enough for these types of partnerships and corporations. Johnson gets substantial income from such companies, including a manufacturer he helped found in Wisconsin and a commercial real estate company, according to his financial disclosure statements.

    Johnson said Trump has assured lawmakers there will be changes. Trump is to travel to Capitol Hill on Tuesday to lobby Republican senators personally.

    The overall tax package blends a sharp reduction in top corporate and business tax rates with more modest relief for individuals.

    In signaling his support, Paul wrote in an op-ed on Fox News: "I'm not getting everything I want — far from it. But I've been immersed in this process. I've fought for and received major changes for the better — and I plan to vote for this bill as it stands right now."

    ___

    Associated Press writers Andrew Taylor, Ken Thomas and Zeke Miller contributed to this report.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-signals-openness-changes-gop-152854378.html
     
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  32. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    ^
    Yeah that's what we need
    A variable tax rate

    Unrestrained spending? No problem, we don't even have to go through the unpopular process of raising taxes ever again, the old law just automatically increases them

    We can all say an old Congress passed that law we didn't have anything to do with it
     
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  33. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    These 8 Republican Senators Have Serious Reservations About Tax Reform

    [​IMG]
    by Tyler Durden
    Nov 28, 2017 8:30 AM


    As we’ve repeatedly pointed out, Mitch McConnell’s push to force tax reform through the senate is facing opposition from several disparate groups of senators, each of which is demanding its own set of changes.

    Concerns primarily center on the taxation of partnerships, limited liabilities and other companies; on the overall cost of the tax bill itself; and on a familiar GOP stumbling block - Obamacare.

    “It’s not going to be easy,” Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch of Utah said Monday. “This is going to be a tough, tough time.”

    Since Republicans are facing unanimous opposition from Democrats, they can only afford to lose two Republican votes to pass the legislation with a tie-breaking vote from Mike Pence. Earlier this month, Republicans passed budget bills in the House and Senate that unlocked a special provision to circumvent a Democratic filibuster.

    However, at last count, a grand total of eight Republican senators had expressed serious reservations about the tax plan in its current form. In fact, two senators, Wisconsin’s Ron Johnson and Montana’s Steve Daines, have said they’re outright ‘nos’.

    Here’s a roundup of the holdouts and their specific objections, per Bloomberg:

    Bob Corker, Jeff Flake and James Lankford:

    "Corker, the retiring Tennessee Republican has staked a hard line against letting tax legislation add to federal deficits - saying that a single penny of new deficits would lose his vote. It turns out the Senate bill would add $1.4 trillion to the deficit over 10 years - at least before accounting for any economic growth - according to a Congressional Budget Office report released Sunday.

    The bill’s supporters say it’ll boost economic growth enough to cover that shortfall, but Corker says he’s not satisfied. He wants a backstop mechanism - essentially a tax-increase trigger that would raise revenue in case the promised growth doesn’t result. Arizona’s Flake and Oklahoma’s Lankford also support that kind of trigger.

    “Every economist is guessing,” Lankford said on Monday. “We should build in the ‘what if’ - what if this doesn’t work?’ If the revenue is not coming in, should the rates change?”

    Corker is a member of the Senate Budget Committee, which meets Tuesday afternoon to decide whether to send the tax bill to the Senate floor. Republicans have a one-vote margin on the panel and cannot afford any defections.

    Corker said Monday he may vote no if tax writers - who he said would be working overnight on a provision - can’t provide enough deficit safeguards."

    Ron Johnson and Steve Daines:

    Johnson became the first Republican senator to come out against the bill, and his vote remains up in the air. His concern? The legislation gives an advantage to large corporations at the expense of “pass-through” businesses, like the plastics company he used to run before his election to the Senate in 2010.

    The Wisconsin senator is also a member of the Budget Committee, and he too wants his concern addressed by the time it meets. “I’m not exactly sure what’s going to happen in committee, and we’re working diligently to fix the problem,” he told reporters Monday. “If we develop a fix prior to committee, I’ll probably support it but if we don’t, I’ll vote against it.”

    The Senate bill cuts the corporate rate to 20 percent, while creating a special deduction for business income from pass-through entities that would leave many owners paying an effective top rate of more than 30 percent.

    Johnson wants to give those owners a larger deduction, and he said many have called to encourage him to stand firm.

    Daines, a Montana Republican, joined Johnson Monday in opposing the bill as written, and for the same reason. An aide said Daines remains optimistic the legislation will change enough to win his vote.

    A deal had yet to emerge Monday night. “We’re still negotiating; let’s put it that way,” said South Dakota Senator John Thune, the chamber’s third-ranking Republican leader, after an evening meeting of the Finance panel.

    Susan Collins:

    The moderate from Maine is the only Republican senator from a reliably Democratic-leaning state, and as such she’s always a difficult vote for party leaders. While Collins was initially warm to the tax bill, she has turned sour after party leaders opted to add repeal of the Obamacare individual mandate to help limit deficits.

    Collins said it’s a mistake to ax the mandate in tax legislation, fearing that it’ll cause healthy people to drop their coverage and drive premiums higher for others - the same reason she cast a pivotal vote to block an Obamacare repeal bill in July. “I hope that will be dropped,” she said recently.

    But eliminating the mandate is estimated to save the federal government more than $300 billion over 10 years - savings that would result from less demand for federal health-coverage subsidies. Some GOP leaders dispute that estimate, even though their tax bill depends on it to stay within budget rules.

    John McCain:

    Nobody is taking McCain’s vote for granted after he shocked the political world by voting against a rushed attempt to demolish the Affordable Care Act this summer.

    He then delivered a speech demanding the Senate return to regular order - hearings, markups, bipartisan input and amendments - for passing major bills. So far, McCain has been warm to the GOP Senate’s tax effort, but he hasn’t taken an official position on the legislation.

    McCain has a mixed record on tax cuts, voting against measures in 2001 and 2003. The top legislative priority of the Arizona Republican, who is 81 and fighting brain cancer, is to boost military spending. His vote on the tax bill could be in peril if he believes the $1.4 trillion in new deficits would put downward pressure on Pentagon funding.

    Jerry Moran:

    The Kansas Republican is sensitive about the impacts of the bill in the wake of his state’s failed tax-cut experiment that lawmakers there ended this year to escape a fiscal crisis.

    “I’m also cognizant of what people saw happen in Kansas,” Moran told constituents over Thanksgiving weekend, as quoted by the Topeka Capital-Journal. “The issue of tax cuts would be easier if you actually had faith that

    Congress would hold the line on spending. It’s two components. It’s how much revenue you take in and how much money you continue to spend.”

    Overall, Moran remained circumspect about the legislation, saying the goal must be to find tax cuts that grow the economy without raising the debt.

    Meanwhile, President Donald Trump late last night praised Senator Rand Paul for publicly announcing that he would support the tax plan despite reservations that the cuts weren’t deep enough (meanwhile, deficit hawks like Bob Corker are hoping to limit cuts to make the bill revenue neutral).

    So far, Paul has been one of the administration’s most obstinate opponents. However, Trump has repeatedly expressed admiration for the Kentucky senator, and had earlier vowed to win his support for tax reform. Of course, Paul’s support won’t necessarily guarantee passage – far from it. But it’s a small victory, and at this point, even small victories are cause for celebration.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...rs-have-serious-reservations-about-tax-reform
     
  34. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Schumer and Pelosi CANCEL White House meeting with Trump after he tweets that he doesn't 'see a deal' with them on spending that could avoid a government shutdown
    • President Donald Trump joins Senate Republicans at their weekly lunch Tuesday
    • He also planned to meet with congressional leaders at the White House
    • But Democratic leaders Charles Schumer and Nancy Pelosi abruptly canceled
    • The move effectively cuts the temper-prone Trump out of the budget talks
    • Government funding runs out December 8
    • Some Democrats are demanding a solution for immigration status of DREAMers
    • Trump called Democrats weak' on crime and said they want to raise taxes
    • Republican leaders want to vote on a tax cut plan this week; Trump wants one by Christmas


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5125025/Trump-doesnt-deal-government-running.html#ixzz4zkX0Auh5
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  35. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Trump trolls Schumer and Pelosi with EMPTY CHAIRS at the White House after they CANCEL meeting with president who once again calls them 'weak on crime' and 'weak on immigration
    • President Donald Trump joins Senate Republicans at their weekly lunch Tuesday
    • He also planned to meet with congressional leaders at the White House
    • But Democratic leaders Charles Schumer and Nancy Pelosi abruptly canceled
    • The move effectively cuts the temper-prone Trump out of the budget talks
    • Government funding runs out December 8
    • Some Democrats are demanding a solution for immigration status of DREAMers
    • Trump called Democrats weak' on crime and said they want to raise taxes
    • Republican leaders want to vote on a tax cut plan this week; Trump wants one by Christmas
    • The Senate Budget Committee advanced the legislation on a party-line vote


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5125025/Trump-doesnt-deal-government-running.html#ixzz4zlQLuUd2
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  36. Po'boy

    Po'boy Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter

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    No repeal only of the affordable care act that would save a lot of frn.

    I will guess that the middle-class will get stuck again.
     
  37. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Why are some Republicans in Congress afraid of the tax bill?
    RT America



    Published on Nov 28, 2017
    Top congressional Democrats canceled a scheduled meeting with President Donald Trump after he insulted them in a tweet Tuesday morning. Bickering over the bill on Capitol Hill is in stark contrast with Trump’s insistence that the GOP is in a “good position” regarding their “very popular” plan. RT America’s Ed Schultz reports the struggle for tax reform and the ever-changing details.
     
  38. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    DEBATE: Does the GOP support its own tax bill?
    RT America



    Published on Nov 28, 2017
    Many Republican senators are now coming out against their own party’s tax plan. They can’t make the numbers work since another attempt at dismantling Obamacare has been tacked on. Democrats hate the plan and argue that trickle-down economics never work. RT America’s Ed Schultz asks conservative commentator Steve Malzberg and journalist Scottie Nell Hughes whether the tax plan will actually pass.
     
  39. CrimsonGuardJay

    CrimsonGuardJay Silver Member Silver Miner

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    At this point, repealing obamacare wouldnt really be "great" but what needs to be dont is a complete and total establishment of the shared responsibility payment (aka tax penalty). As fo right now the IRS is barred from using any resource to pursue ANYONE at any time for a tax penalty per the aca... this is good, but too many people do NOT realize it.

    The tax reform act will abolish it once and for all, and make it permanently unable to be imposed again.

    With the previous trump executive orders, the availability of alternate health plans from different companies with different levels of coverage are now available, and I have been selling and selling for months... sometimes saving some people up to $10,000 annually vs. the aca plans.
     
  40. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I've been telling people that since this abomination of a law was enacted.
    ....but it always falls on deaf ears. No one cares what the law actually says, even when it's written in their favor.
     

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