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Tulving pleads guilty to fraud, faces up to 20 years

Discussion in 'PM Dealer Feedback' started by southfork, Aug 22, 2015.



  1. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/tulving-678720-company-coins.html

    Newport Beach resident Hannes Tulving Jr., 60, the owner and sole shareholder of The Tulving Co., sold coins, bullion and other metals online. He and his company pleaded guilty to wire fraud in federal court Thursday for defrauding more than 400 customers of more than $15 million.
    , COURTESY OF COIN WEEK


    BY LOUIS CASIANO JR. / STAFF WRITER


    A Costa Mesa-based coin and precious metals dealer and his company pleaded guilty to wire fraud in federal court Thursday for defrauding more than 400 customers of more than $15 million, a statement from the U.S. Attorney General said.

    Newport Beach resident Hannes Tulving Jr., 60, the owner and sole shareholder of The Tulving Co., sold coins, bullion and other metals online.

    In pleading guilty, he admitted to a U.S. magistrate judge in North Carolina that he induced customers to place orders for coins and other merchandise he knew could not be fulfilled. From August 2013 to January, Tulving used payments from new customers to complete orders for older customers, pay company debts and return money to previous customers who had not yet received their orders.

    One San Diego man ordered $39,000 in American Eagle gold coins from The Tulving Co. He was promised the shipment would arrive in seven days. Four months later, he still had not received the coins. Another customer in South Dakota filed a lawsuit after the company failed to deliver 240 gold coins, for which he paid more than $318,000. A Phoenix man had not received the 80 Gold Maple Leaf coins he paid $107,000 for when he filed his lawsuit months later.

    The company closed in March 2014.

    The Secret Service began investigating Tulving last year. In addition to protecting current and former U.S. Leaders and their families, the agency investigates financial crimes, such as major fraud and counterfeit currency.

    The company, which had been described as a major player in the industry, had also filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. The business owed $1 million to $10 million to as many as 49 creditors, according to bankruptcy documents.

    The California Department of Business Oversight also launched an investigation into the company. The Better Business Bureau received more than 5,600 inquires into the Tulving Co. since 2010, when gold prices began to rise as part of the recovery from the Great Recession.

    More than 20 years ago, Tulving was accused by the Federal Trade Commission of overpricing rare coins and going back on return guarantees through another Newport Beach-based company he owned, Hannes Tulving Rare Coin Investments.

    He was suspected of defrauding clients out of more than $40 million. He settled with the FTC in 1992 and agreed to pay $1.3 million.

    Tulving faces up to 20 years in prison and $250,000 in fines. He is required to pay restitution to customers as part of the plea agreement. The Tulving Co. faces at least $500,000 in fines, at least one year of organizational probation and is required to pay restitution.

    Tulving was released on bond. No sentencing date was released.
     
    sclariat, Usc96, hoarder and 18 others like this.
  2. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    About time. Publicly forced to admit to fraud. The speculation is over, the defenders on this forum were 100% wrong.
    He is a crook and he publicly admitted to being one.

    Thank you southfork.
     
  3. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Is he related to Bernie Madoff??


    I suspect he got contangoed between a rock and a hard spot price... :dontknow:
     
  4. skychief

    skychief enthusiastic stacker Silver Miner

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    So, by restitution, does that mean these 3 people get all of their money back, or just a portion of it? Honest question.

    It can be assumed that they wont be seeing delivery of any gold coins.
     
  5. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Had he all the funds to return Im sure he would have done so to avoid the criminal aspect of the case, the victims will be luck to see a dime on the dollar after the recievers take theirs.
     
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  6. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    I feel bad for anyone who lost their life savings.
     
  7. Ahillock

    Ahillock A nobody Mother Lode

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    Where are all the Tulving cheerleaders now who kept saying everything was fine, that he would get customers their products, that there was nothing to worry about, and that people we just trying to dirty his name online? .....crickets.......
     
  8. 917601

    917601 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    I can't say I was a cheerleader,( note I never said everything was fine, my very last order took 6 weeks). He gave me good service for many years, many " deals" ( especially on Platinum). I was a very satisfied customer and would love to know the circumstances of his fall. Greed? Dishonesty? Poor business decisions? ...in any case, it appears justice was served. I am sure his story would be a good study in the fallen nature of man.
     
  9. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    My SWAG? Taking orders at a price he didn't have in stock and spot went up??
     
  10. luckabuck

    luckabuck Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    "Where are all the Tulving cheerleaders now who kept saying everything was fine, that he would get customers their products, that there was nothing to worry about, and that people we just trying to dirty his name online? .....crickets......."

    A number of members on this site are now eating crow. They called me a liar and a shill for other dealers.
     
    Usc96, hoarder, dollars and 4 others like this.
  11. 917601

    917601 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Justice was served. What I do know, he gave me 40 ounces of PRDCAMs ( PCGS graded) for a few dollars above spot when he realized he did not have plain, ungraded, Platinum Eagles in his advertised inventory. The man never fleeced me, and I always found my conversations with him were interesting. What more can I say?
     
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  12. Ahillock

    Ahillock A nobody Mother Lode

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    Luckabuck, you were one of/the first watchmen in the tower sounding the alarm. We thank you for that. We will probably never know how many people you helped avoid financial ruin, but even if it was just one person you did well for speaking up. Thanks.
     
    LT2014, Usc96, hoarder and 10 others like this.
  13. Charlie Prime

    Charlie Prime Banned

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    You can't pass up a single opportunity to cuck for the Tribe can you?

    It's sickening.
     
  14. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    You get along well with confessed fraudsters?
     
  15. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Well said. The attacks on him were vicious. He stood his ground.
     
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  16. Krag

    Krag Planet earth Platinum Bling

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    What a crook; I hope they recover all the loot he pilfered from his clients. I was able to warn at least one potential customer on Coin Talk while he was still taking orders.
     
  17. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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    Maybe he wasn't a crook? Nixon wasn't.


    I figure he got in over his head and kept treading water trying to stay afloat.


    He drowned.
     
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  18. Krag

    Krag Planet earth Platinum Bling

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    Well, they are using old pictures no doubt that make him look like a great all around guy, pics no doubt taken right after endorphin activity.... I hope they make him sweat bullets, no excuse.

    ntf1gl-b88492518z.120150820214803000g03bi8b0.10.jpg
     
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  19. nickndfl

    nickndfl Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    He should be executed. That would send a message to anybody that was considering fraud.
     
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  20. Usury

    Usury Gold Chaser Platinum Bling

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    Yes, but at the same time who rolls their whole wad on one toss of the dice? Not anyone smart...
     
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  21. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    I feel sorry for a dumb animal that gets hit by a car. Don't read too much into it.
     
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  22. SQUEXX

    SQUEXX Banned

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    Never bought from him, but the general consensus was that he was a cranky old bastard that was hard to work with.
     
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  23. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Plus the 1990's recalled his website.
     
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  24. Rusty Shackelford

    Rusty Shackelford Midas Member Midas Member

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    Would it be possible to pay the restitution in the number of coins purchased in say 2013 (and not delivered) in that same number of coins at today's price?
     
  25. SilverBuyer

    SilverBuyer Silver Member Silver Miner

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    How do you lose as much money as he did without doing something crooked? It's not like he had much overhead, he had a very simple website that should of cost next to nothing and he often answered the phones himself reportedly.
     
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  26. Ahillock

    Ahillock A nobody Mother Lode

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    Didn't he have a private jet or yacht or something?
     
  27. 917601

    917601 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Maybe I was an exception, but I always was pleased to talk to him, enjoyable experience, and he always left me a very well satisfied customer. That said, the class action suit was dropped, he plea bargained and...seems there is much more to the story...I am not defending him, merely stating he always did me right, for the rest if the story....it be hooves you all to read it....mentions " others" you are not aware about...my advice, be aware nothing is at it seems in these days. Be very careful whom you deal with....more when I have time...

    "Tulving's Partner

    June 15, 2015 1:45PM EST
    It feels like we are in an intermission, with no visible activity in the bankruptcy since mid-March when the professionals got approval to be paid, with the notable exception of the filing of the criminal case, which I stumbled across last week. Given that Hannes chose to sign a plea agreement, and the class action lawsuit against him was dropped (which a number of creditors were disappointed by), I feel this to be an appropriate time to provide further details on some information I previously published.
    I felt it best not to publish all the information I had received for several reasons; one of which was that I was concerned that publishing the information could interfere with justice being served. However, at this point, releasing as much of the information as possible feels appropriate. This information comes from various sources, and I have confirmed much of the information, but cannot confirm it all (e.g. without access to documents that the Trustee has, that I do not).

    In around 2011, Hannes signed a partnership agreement with an individual he knew. A friend of this partner signed documents (millions of dollars worth) without being authorized to, and without the knowledge of Hannes. Some of the documents were for products/services that were supplied (but with "padded" expenses), others were completely bogus (e.g. for goods/services given away to the partners' friends).

    The partner gave The Tulving Company a $4M line of credit, which was certainly helpful. But he and another friend of his were also on The Tulving Company payroll with $300,000/year salaries during part of 2011. My understanding is that there is no record of what work, if any, his friend may have done for The Tulving Company. Yet another friend of the partner worked part-time for Tulving during part of 2013.

    As of June, 2013, The Tulving Company no longer had access to the $4M line of credit from the partner. The partner's friend who signed the documents also made mistakes involving millions of dollars, including accidentally paying bills of another company the partner was involved in using The Tulving Company's money....

    "It shows $593,434.00 as being owed."....

    Oddly, I saw no mention of this partner in the criminal filing against Hannes Tulving, Jr."...worth staying informed..."Kitco Pool Safety

    April 1, 2015 5:15PM EST
    Although this is not related to Tulving, I thought it was important enough to share, as it is likely that a number of Tulving creditors have some money in the Kitco Pool.
    I have discovered that the Kitco Pool -- once touted as being a much improved version of unallocated metal accounts -- has new safety issues. It is no longer 100% backed by physical precious metals, as Kitco led people to believe, and $25M of Kitco Pool was seized a few years back by Revenue Quebec the day before Kitco filed for bankruptcy (CCAA).

    I am starting a page about the Kitco Pool, similar to this one, where I will add updates. If you have money in the Kitco Pool, I strongly urge you to read more and determine if the pool is still safe for you..."


    http://about.ag/tulving.htm
     
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  28. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Most likely you didn't hear about the "partner" and the "friend" of the "partner" because it is pure BS. The guy plead guilty to fraud, if he could have deflected due to illegal activity by business partners he would have, or they would have been before the bar of justice with him, when you have a partner it is just like being married. Both would have been held to account.
     
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  29. 917601

    917601 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    I guess you did not read the detailed website in entirety, step back and before you pass judgement, inform yourself. Emotions do not do you well....re- read and digest the recorded facts.....I gave you the tools...here is another...be sure to get back with us.

    http://tulvingbankruptcy.com/claims.aspx
     
  30. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    This reminds me of mtgox...
     
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  31. Krag

    Krag Planet earth Platinum Bling

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    The guy had a very shady history before:

    "He was suspected of defrauding clients out of more than $40 million {in 1990}. He settled with the FTC in 1992 and agreed to pay $1.3 million."

    Backstory (the truth) to all the "Hannes was a upright guy!" garbage from his shills here: Tulving didn't serve time in 1992, and paid less than 3.5% restitution last time. Justice was not served! And no one cared?
    http://articles.latimes.com/1992-06-19/business/fi-556_1_rare-coins

    "Tulving faces up to 20 years in prison and $250,000 in fines. He is required to pay restitution to customers as part of the plea agreement. The Tulving Co. faces at least $500,000 in fines, at least one year of organizational probation and is required to pay restitution."

    He served no jail time before. Will Hannes be "forced" to pay a pittance to victims, say ~$500k or pennies-on-the-dollar (and most of that going to lawyers) ... only to be allowed to defraud bullionists AGAIN?! Sentencing deserves a post; stay tuned.

    http://articles.latimes.com/1992-06-19/business/fi-556_1_rare-coins

    Perspective? Tulving was one of the Top 5 Bullion Scammers in the USA over the last 35 years or so.
    http://about.ag/GoldSilverFraud.htm

    In actual losses ($17bln; 63,553 victims) the average Madoff victim loss was $267.5k. Very large clients absorbed over 80% of the losses, however; half lost little in fact. Trustee Picard stated all direct investors with less than $1mln in assets would be "made whole"!

    The average Tulving victim loss was ~$38.5k, ~98% are small investors. I believe they will get almost nothing, after lawyer fees and distribution of the crumbs leftover.

    http://about.ag/GoldSilverFraud.htm
     
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  32. gringott

    gringott Killed then Resurrected Midas Member Site Supporter

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    Numbers logic:

    If a guy is stealing from the neighborhood, but skipping my house, is pleasant to me and gives me a great deal on merchandise, well, he is ok by me.

    Nice.

    Numbers, I read what you posted, didn't dig deeper because it sounds like a cock and bull story. If this guy had material evidence and withheld it until the plea deal was done, isn't that in the minimum immoral and possibly withholding evidence of a crime? Or at best "he said she said". If your buddy was that out of it that he allowed himself to be looted in that manner, he should never have been in business. Who was doing the books? Stevie Wonder?

    Numbers, he admitted to FRAUD in court. What more do I need to pass judgement? HE SAID HE WAS A CROOK IN OPEN COURT.

    What does it take for you? I assume he has to steal from you before you will "pass judgement".
     
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  33. 917601

    917601 Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Read my earlier posts, I was very clear on stating justice was served. That said, I related my dealings with him. I will not trash a man I never had a problem with and enjoyed doing business with. If I knew he was a crook, I would have never sent my hard earned money to him, and as far as I am concerned, he was running a legit business for some time till he went bad. Do note the prosecutors ( US DOJ) dismissed the class action lawsuit against him, for reasons not disclosed......and by the way, some other well known PM dealers and " related" info are named in the link I posted. Hope you do not do business with them......I won't. You can thank me later.
     
  34. Mujahideen

    Mujahideen Black Member Midas Member

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    The guy is a criminal and said so openly in court. Several people who did business with him lost their money, some even lost their life savings.

    Case closed and may he rot in jail for a long time.
     
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  35. Lulz

    Lulz Banned

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    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2015
  36. SilverBuyer

    SilverBuyer Silver Member Silver Miner

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    The reason why the government settled was because what he was doing was in a shady area of being fraud or not. He was charging heavy premiums above a fair market value for coins.

    Other sites are still doing this today, govmint.com is the first one that comes to mind. For example a 1 oz gold pamp suisse bar is $1699 on their site. A 2015 1 oz gold eagle is $1345, a 2014 1 oz gold eagle is $1499 ect. (and those are some of the sites better prices) They also use heavy handed sales tactics.
     
  37. SilverBuyer

    SilverBuyer Silver Member Silver Miner

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    I think one of the articles mentioned he had a yacht.
     
  38. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Yah had is the relative word, it sank after he put all the silver he stole from people in it.
     

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