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United Airlines Forces Passenger Off Plane Due Overbooking

Discussion in 'Coffee Shack (Daily News/Economy)' started by OverOver, Apr 10, 2017.



  1. the_shootist

    the_shootist I self identify as a black '69 Camaro Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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  2. the_shootist

    the_shootist I self identify as a black '69 Camaro Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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  3. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Incompetence
     
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  4. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    Southwest sucks too,, just cancelled their cc i used, last 2 trips 3 out of 4 flights we missed because of delays on their connections, wouldnt do shit to accomodate us
     
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  5. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    WTF is right. There's always more to the story, it seems.
     
  6. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    I think they are trying to smear the guy. He didn't do anything wrong. United and the cops are the bad guys.

    Personally I hope he sues the living shit out of them both.
     
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  7. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  8. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  9. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  10. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Oh, I agree, this is a wholly separate matter. They did the guy wrong.
    It's just that once the dirt starts flying, it's amazing what gets dug up sometimes, because if there's any truth to it at all, it could help explain why he reacted the way he did.
    Everyone has their own way of reacting to a given situation based upon their own past experiences and how they see the situation from their perspective. A persons temperament and personality play into it also and I find it interesting to try to understand a little bit about what makes people do the things they do.
    ...but again, I agree the guy was treated horribly and UA shouldn't have done what they did. I'm glad their stock is down. Those 4 seats may end up being the biggest money losing seats they ever sold.



    I will add that if airlines just have to overbook flights in order to make money, they should at least try to better inform people at the time of purchase exactly how the rules for getting bumped, work.
    Ie: if the last ones to check in are bumped first, they need to make that point abundantly clear. Also, informing people that there are ~50,000 bump-ees each year let's them know that it is a regular occurrence and if they are late, that there is a fair chance they might get bumped. That way if they don't agree they don't have to buy the tix, and once they agree that they understand, there's no excuse for complaining if they get bumped.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
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  11. GOLDBRIX

    GOLDBRIX God,Donald Trump,most in GIM2 I Trust. OTHERS-meh Site Supporter Platinum Bling

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    NOPE ! Just like EVERYBODY else it was just His Turn In the Barrel.

    "Doctor" David Doa is not pristine and has a "Colorful Past":
    Doa trained in Medicine in Vietnam and he and his family was taken out with the American withdraw.
    .... finished his medical training in California before moving to Indiana in 1980. There, he worked at a prison in Michigan City but quit after one year when an inmate reportedly tried to strangle him with his own stethoscope.

    Dao Was Convicted of Prescribing a Patient With Painkillers In Exchange for Sex in Louisville
    In 2003, Dao was charged with 98 counts of illegally prescribing and trafficking prescription painkillers such as hydrocodone, Oxycontin and Percocet. You can read the criminal complaint above, along with other documents related to the case and Dao’s medical license.....

    One Patient Ended Up Working For Dao At His Practice & Quit Because of Sexual Advances Made By Him, He Said In a Criminal Complaint
    The main informant in the case — who wasn’t identified in the complaint — first met Dao in September 2000 as a patient. He had been having chest pains and was referred to Dao by another doctor.
    Three months after the two met, Dao asked the male patient to be an office manager at his medical practice in Kentucky. He worked there for about six weeks, but eventually resigned because of sexual advances and harassment from Dao, a complaint said. But instead of saying the actual reason he had quit, the patient instead wrote in his resignation letter that he quite for “personal reasons.”
    But the relationship between Dao and the patient didn’t end there.
    Once the former office manager left the business, the criminal complaint said Dao “intensely pursued him, calling many times a day and driving to (where he lived) to find him.”
    Eventually, the two met each other once again for a period of six months. During that span, Dao wrote him personal checks to the former employee that totaled around $4,500 in addition to prescribing hydrocodone.

    Dao’s wife eventually found out about the checks and assumed he was having an affair. As Dao’s wife continued her private investigation, the two stopped meeting for a brief amount of time. Soon enough, Dao paid off the former employee to keep quiet to his wife......

    Dao Has Made More Than $234,000 Playing in World Series of Poker Tournaments & Pursued a Career as a Chef
    In addition to being a doctor, Dao has also played in several professional poker tournaments affiliated with the World Series of Poker. He joined the poker circuit in July 2006 while his medical license was suspended.

    http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/david...ille-kentucky-passenger-removed-video-photos/
     
  12. Crockett

    Crockett Seeker

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Even if true they would not have known and it is not the issue. After the fact it is simply smear campaign to try and change the narrative.


    I sent the following message to UA:


    Really? You guys assaulted one of your customers? A paying customer? Is that how little you think of all your customers?

    Did United remove all the other passengers to decontaminate the plane due to the blood bio-hazard that was spread around the cabin? I would like to know.

    Seems to me United should have kept increasing the reward credit until it was worth it for someone to decide to take it. Alternatively, United could have hired a Limousine, a greyhound bus, or even a small plane to transport the four employees that you needed in Louisville. It’s only a 320-mile drive.

    United needs training in customer service it seems to me, where the customer is first. Shameful

    United Airlines drags physician kicking and screaming off a flight he PAID FOR because they overbooked and wanted the seat back. http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-04-...screaming-overbooked-flight-police-state.html
     
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  13. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Take three! United's embattled CEO Oscar Munoz makes another apology and says 'no one should be mistreated this way' after passenger dragged from flight said 'everything' was injured
    • The embattled boss issued another statement to staff Tuesday afternoon
    • 'It’s never too late to do the right thing... I promise we will do better,' it read
    • Munoz's note was sent after DailyMail.com revealed the airline accused Dr David Dao - who was dragged off the flight - of trying to strike officers removing him
    • Dr Dao said Tuesday 'everything' was injured when he was forced off the plane
    • Munoz is facing criticism and been accused of being 'tone deaf' to the incident
    • The under-fire executive was paid $6.7million by United for his role last year
    • He was also named PRWeek's communicator of the year for the fifth time in 2017


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4402888/United-CEO-Oscar-Munoz-says-outraged-new-memo.html#ixzz4dz19wO65
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  14. southfork

    southfork Mother Lode Found Mother Lode

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    The guy did wrong, paid his dues and he's square with the system in my eyes, United has no right to do what they did or bring up his past They are wrong.
     
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  15. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    I found the problem!



    Edited to add: I could do a better job for half that money.
     
  16. Pyramid

    Pyramid Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter

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    Agree 100%. The airlines have a poor policy of overbooking every flight and an even worse policy of forcefully removing passengers at random.

    The bigger issue, IMHO, is the Chicago jack-booted thugs that knocked the guy out and dragged him off the plane in pure brownshirt fashion. Don't think it will happen to you, until it does. Good luck out there folks.
     
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  17. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    Doctor dragged off United plane and left bloodied by cops hires TWO sets of lawyers in sign he will sue for millions - and is STILL in hospital from his injuries
    • First statement from Dr Dao is through lawyer who says his family 'wants the world to know' their thanks for 'outpouring of prayers, concern and support'
    • Grandfather, 69, is still in hospital being treated for injuries and told local TV station 'everything' was injured
    • Footage of Vietnamese-born father-of-five being dragged off United thrust company into PR firestorm and share price plunged
    • Calls for a boycott have been made and one of the three cops involved has been suspended - and not been named by Chicago Police Department
    • Now he has hired a personal injury specialist and a company law specialist, suggesting he will sue United in a massive case
    • But his troubled past has also emerged with disclosure he had secret inappropriate gay relationship with a patient was revealed
    • Father of five, 69, was convicted of a felony - but avoided prison time - because he was giving the man prescription drugs in return for gay sex
    • He denied the gay sex even though he was caught on camera shirtless and in his pants with Brian Case, his lover, then 26, a fellow worshiper at his church
    • United's CEO finally apologized at the third attempt but his company's share price plunged


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4403064/Doctor-dragged-United-hires-two-sets-lawyers.html#ixzz4dzQgDiBa
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  18. Goldhedge

    Goldhedge Modal Operator/Moderator Site Mgr Site Supporter

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  19. spinalcracker

    spinalcracker On a mail train. Silver Miner Site Supporter

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  20. Ensoniq

    Ensoniq Midas Member Midas Member Site Supporter ++

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    Overbook all you need to, to remain profitable

    But once you allow check in and issue a ticket and your ass is in a seat - you should be good

    Even if the bastards didn't want to offer more they could have made an announcement we're not leaving until we get a volunteer. The peer pressure and stress of time passing would have produced a volunteer minus the blood

    Of course they should have just increased the incentive until they reached the market clearing price. Econ 101
     
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  21. D-FENZ

    D-FENZ Gold Member Gold Chaser Site Supporter ++

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    Doesn't seem fair, but every airline overbooks and bumps passengers. Sooner or later one of them would end up trying to boot a drama queen like this one. It was inevitable. The airline employees are exposed to the thug culture of the TSA every day they show up for work. It was bound to rub off on them sooner or later.

    But what are the airlines supposed to do to get him off if he refuses? Tranquilize him? Taze him? Wait for the other passengers to throw him off because they are tired of waiting?

    Maybe they need to demand that the passengers surrender their smartphones as they board the planes. At least the images wouldn't go viral.
     
  22. TRYNEIN

    TRYNEIN Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    LOL at some of the suggestions for new United Airlines mottos.

    We put the hospital in hospitality

    Would you like a window seat or a concussion?

    Fight or Flight? Let us surprise you!

    Normal flights have cabin crews, we have bouncers

    Board as a doctor, leave as a patient

    We'll beat any price and any customer

    Making sure doctors go to the hospital

    United Airlines: Not enough seating, prepare for a beating."
     
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  23. Uglytruth

    Uglytruth Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Idea #1 40-50K times a year. Overbooking is normal. Hey asshats maybe your formula needs a little adjustment. About 13 million flights in the US a year. 50K issues change by .003 and you would have a lot less issues with higher profits.
    Idea #2 Book flights for your help & if not needed they are standby tickets.
     
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  24. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    They could do all the things Ensoniq suggested?


    IMO, that's the biggest part of the problem in this case. Most times that people get bumped it's done at the gate prior to boarding, not after they've already given you your seat.



    By law they are supposedly limited to $1350 in such cases, so they could have upped the offer quite a bit more had they chosen to do so.
    ...but they chose the gestapo route instead.



    From what I've read, this flight was not overbooked. The real problem was that United's employees that had to be in Louisville showed up at the last minute after everyone had already boarded. Had they showed up prior to boarding the guy would have never been allowed to get on the plane, as they would have already known they needed his seat for employees.

    Also, the main criteria to decide who gets bumped is to bump those who were the last to check in. The fact that their own employees were the last to check in should have stipulated that it was they who should have been denied boarding.

    Two weeks ago United made it very clear that when their employees travel on a United flight, they are held to higher standards than the paying customers. So IMHO they should also hold them to at least the same standards when it comes to showing up late to a flight. Ie: last ones there become bump-ees if necessary. Sorry 4, shoulda got here sooner.
     
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  25. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    "By law they are supposedly limited to $1350 in such cases"
    This law seems non-optimal...
    Even so, it seems odd that they did not even offer the passengers $1350, but, decided to drag one out by force.
    Who made the decision not to offer the legal limit, at least?
     
  26. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Either the flight crew or the gate attendants. Most likely the flight crew did.
    What I also read about the $1350 thing is that the airlines offers for compensation rarely, if ever, go that high. I wouldn't be surprised if the airline discourages their offering too much in cases like this.
    ...and I doubt they called the cops with the intent of them beating the guy. They probably assumed that once he saw them coming, he would then cooperate. However, that doesn't excuse their actions. IMO the policy that dictates such cases is just plain wrong. Once you are boarded and seated, that should be that. If they can't get their shit straight prior to boarding, oh well. Whoever is left at the gate has to deal with it. That way they'll learn to get there sooner next time.
     
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  27. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    Still confusing story.
    Did the pilot have the ultimate authority/responsibility/decision to allow force to remove the passenger?
    Or was this the ground crew leaser responsibility?
     
  28. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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  29. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    The flight crew?
    Yes, but probably, that means that it was the captain's final responsibility. Has he been in the story?
     
  30. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Just speculating, but I'm thinking the pilot has ultimate say. For sure the pilot does once the door is closed and the plane pushed away from the gate.
    Whether or not the door has been closed, makes a difference in some situations.


    Also, what this actually is is a case of "refusal to transport", not a boarding issue. In fact, United probably committed an illegal act by asking him to de-board.
    All in all, this guy is gonna get his "Cha Ching!", moment.


    United’s Removal Of Passengers May Not Have Been Legal
    So far the conversation has centered around how this passenger was involuntarily denied boarding. The Department of Transportation has specific guidelines in place for how airlines can deny boarding to passengers. However, that may not be the case at all here. First let me say that I’m not a lawyer, so take what I say with a grain of salt (though I’ve talked to some lawyer friends about this, and they seem to have a similar perspective).

    The passenger wasn’t denied boardinghe had a confirmed seat, and was allowed to board and take that seat.

    Later they come onboard and asked him to get off the plane. At that point that’s no longer being denied boarding, but rather being refused transport. United’s contract of carriage addresses both of these situations:

    The contract of carriage lists a bunch of reasons that the airline can refuse transport to someone, though a flight being oversold after a passenger has boarded isn’t one of them. In looking at the Department of Transportation regulations, I don’t see anything that clarifies how they define “denied boarding.”

    In light of that, it sure seems like this was a case of refusal to transport, rather than a case of denied boarding, since the passenger wasn’t denied boarding. If this was a refusal to transport case, then United had no legal grounds on which to refuse him transport, based on the contract of carriage.
     
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  31. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    United Airlines Beats The Sh*t Out Of Passenger For Not Taking Their Offer!
    The Doctor Of Common Sense



    Published on Apr 12, 2017
     
  32. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    Who removed him police or civilians?
     
  33. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Chicago police, per my understanding.
    ...but they did so on the orders of the flight crew. They said he was being un-cooperative and to get him off the plane. Cops wouldn't have even been there if they hadn't been called.

    Those 4 seats will end up being the most expensive seats the airline ever sold. Expensive for them, that is. Especially if they are found to have broken the contract of carriage in doing so.
     
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  34. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    How about the passenger resisting the Chicago Police?
    I suspect that that is not advised.
    It is supposedly a felony just to touch a police officer while on duty--not that that is often enforced...
     
  35. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    For fun, let's see how they could spin it, if it was a white male army veteran:

    "white male army veteran, with history of stress post discharge, fights Chicago police officers on crowded air plane.
    The officers were trying remove him from the flight. The suspect claims that he had a right to remain on the plane, but in fact the pilot and owners of the plane (UAL) have ultimate responsibility. Authorities are investigating to see if he has any mental illness history.
     
  36. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    No, probably not. Like I said, they probably assumed that once the cops showed up, he'd back down and comply peacefully.


    In some States it's (technically speaking at least) legal to resist the police if they are acting outside their authority. Bottom line is, there was no legal justification to have him removed in the first place. Which is why he will win big. Even the CEO back peddled hard after he finally came to his senses.

    United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz apologized for the forcible removal of a paying passenger from one of its flights and called the episode "truly horrific."
    "I want you to know that we take full responsibility and we will work to make it right," Munoz said in a statement on Tuesday. "I promise you we will do better."

    Previously he had accused the customer of being disruptive and belligerent while defending the flight crews actions.
     
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  37. searcher

    searcher Mother Lode Found Site Supporter ++ Mother Lode

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    'Everybody who flies United knows it's awful': Governor Chris Christie blasts airline for evicted passenger controversy and asks Trump administration to ban overbooking
    • New Jersey Governor Chris Christie criticized United Airlines on Wednesday
    • Governor said Trump administration should prevent airlines from overbooking
    • United faces nationwide backlash after it evicted a passenger just before takeoff


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4406046/Chris-Christie-blasts-United-evicted-passenger-flap.html#ixzz4e4RZCcjJ
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
     
  38. Ebie

    Ebie Midas Member Midas Member

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    Don't try that in almost any other country...
     
  39. mayhem

    mayhem Другая перспектива Silver Miner Site Supporter

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    That sir would require a manager with a brain. How many people would have to sign off on that before it could be enacted?
     
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  40. Joe King

    Joe King Gold Member Gold Chaser

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    Isn't that the point of making someone manager? That they have the brains to think on their feet so as to find the best solution to problems as they arise? At least that's what used to be required of managers prior to all the "feel good" reasons of today they use for promoting someone.

    The CEO has said common sense should have prevailed and that United did not give its managers "the proper tools, policies, procedures" they needed to use "common sense.".....Speaking of his employees, Munoz said: "They all have an incredible amount of common sense, and this issue could have been solved by that."
    Well obviously not Munoz, or they'd have used it, duh! lol

    Like you can give someone common sense by making a rule or policy. Someone needs to tell him that that's not how common sense works. You either have it in a given situation, or you don't.
    Common sense is the thing that is supposed to prevail when the tools policies and procedures that people like him order others to go by, fly in the face of it.



    I was also thinking that it's important that things like this happen, because if they didn't we'd never get much change. Sometimes it takes people resisting the status quo and causing a ruckus when they know they are being wronged in order to get the attention a particular situation needs to have applied to it.
    Had he been a good boy and simply complained at the gate as the plane left, nothing would change for the better. United would continue to do the same thing next time.

    The real answer would be for Munoz to tell his employees to make sure they are checked in extra early and that if they wait 'til the last minute to show up for a flight, they might not be boarded.
    ...and that paying passengers will not be removed from a flight to accommodate them either.
     

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