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$136 Ticket from cop for walking over railroad tracks

Krag

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#1
This issue is new, just happened about an hour ago. I took a shortcut over railroad tracks and down over the bank. Cop comes over to me demanding what I was doing demanding ID. I handed it to him, he asked me a bunch of questions, said didn't I know it was against the law to walk over railroad tracks, that it is "common sense". I said I go by reason, there were no signs against trespassing, etc.. He writes me up a ticket for trespassing of $136! I said I would contact the state AG and my lawyer and that I would challenge this. I've done a lot of hiking over the years, did most of the AT and there definitely were RR crossings without my ever seeing a warning that it was against the law.
 

glockngold

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#2
I just googled it.
Yep, it is trespassing on private property.
Curious as to your location.
Never heard of this one being enforced.
Kind of like spitting on the sidewalk.
 

Mujahideen

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#3
That’s almost the price of a $5 eagle!:mad:
 

Krag

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#4
Norwalk, CT, walked about 8 miles to check on my car that was being repaired.
 

BigJim#1-8

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#5
A crime for every man........
 

pitw

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#7
So was it regular police type or a railroad cop who gave the ticket? I've had CP cops pull me over looking for stuff stolen from them[ties]. Also caught shit for walking across the tracks from them but no tickets.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#8
KRAG and PIT. both live in Leftist Liberal areas Canada and Connecticut.
Here in Cen. KY the RR tracks are Hobo Highways. You can be in Lexington, Georgetown, Paris ... drive across a RR Crossing and probably see somebody on or just off the tracks.
When I was a kid it was a great place to squirrel, and groundhog hunt.

OTOH: About every two months or so ya hear about someone "Sleeping" on the tracks and the Train engineer doesn't see them in time to stop but sounds the horn like crazy. ( No Open Casket )
 

Cigarlover

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#9
Just keeping you safe by taking your money. If there are no no trespassing signs is it trespassing? Normally a property has to have posted signs for it to be a trespassing charge.
 

Ironpig

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#10
Its more "CommonSense" to get ouf of the way when a train comes by.
Its a tragedy that people do get hit while walking on tracks wearing earbuds. I supose a cop would take that seriously and berate someone because they are not as smart as him. Cops should show more compassion for the people their sworn to protect. Most cops I know are fine and very understanding. They do their best to remain neutral. Some are very emotional, they are the dangerous ones. They act from emotion rather than logic.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#13
I took a shortcut over railroad tracks and down over the bank. Cop comes over to me demanding what I was doing demanding ID.
Either the "Sarge" got into his ass or his ol' lady cut him off when he wanted a "quickie" before work. :don't know:
 

Treasure Searcher

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#14
Its more "CommonSense" to get ouf of the way when a train comes by.
Its a tragedy that people do get hit while walking on tracks wearing earbuds. I supose a cop would take that seriously and berate someone because they are not as smart as him. Cops should show more compassion for the people their sworn to protect. Most cops I know are fine and very understanding. They do their best to remain neutral. Some are very emotional, they are the dangerous ones. They act from emotion rather than logic.
Where I live, its usually the intoxicated that are on the track when the train comes through. Once in a while, someone wants to get off planet earth and lays on the tracks.
 

JayDubya

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#15
As kids we used to walk up & down the tracks with our air rifles.

We also used to jump trains to catch a quick ride to other parts of town.

Every once in a great while we'd get chased off by railroad cops but I can't recall ever being approached by city police.

I don't know if it's just because we lived in close proximity of the tracks but we always knew, from a very early age, that they're private property and we were supposed to stay away from them.
 

michael59

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#16
Tsk, tsk, tsk. ready to hear the case law? I have been there-in court-over the E-vile trespassing and guess what? IT TISS OK! One cannot commit commercial trespass is all. Say it with me<commercial trespass>now don't you feel better knowing that?

And what is this commercial trespassing you might ask? Well I am glad you did: a commercial trespass happens when YOU are driving a car or any contraption that impedes the train from its commerce on the tracks. You cannot damage the tracks, dig in the right of way of the tracks, put things on the tracks that would impede the train. NOTE THE WORDS "Impede THE TRAIN." No train or damage to the tracks or the right of way then there is no trespass.

It is common tort law and I am using this the tort word loosely, but tort law uses the words "Master Slave Relationship" when it comes to railroad cops; I will get to the other POS cop in a bit. What is the master slave relationship? The master aka RR pays for the slave' killing. What this means is a RR cop catches me popping seals on RR cars and gives chase AND I shoot at him first-he returns fire and kills me. K, RR pays for my death, period. Now get this: It is also tort law that the RR is responsible for running over my livestock that got through the fence. And, why is this do you think?

Because the RR does not hold title but only the right of way for commerce.....what they hold is SERFACE RIGHTS and commercial passage on that right of way. This is why they only operate on designated lines of which they hold the right. It is not because it is difficult to put in switching or even because they will crash into each other: IT IS BECAUSE IT IS A COMMERCIAL TRESSPASS to operate on or to impede those that hold the right of passage. now if there is an agreement/contract then it is all mitigation to or about "the catastrophe" if there is one.

So why is this? Glad you asked, Well you can ask Scorpio, BarnacleBob, TRYNINE, anotherdave and a host of others who pounded it in my brain exactly wTF domestic corporation is, and that POS cop is in this but not in the domestic corporation part. A domestic corporation is created by the congress that meets to pass laws for the 50 states which gets listed in the federal register or passed as public law. That was just my stupid way of saying "Them idiots on capital hill." The congress started the railroads and therefore the railroads are DOMESTIC CORPORATIONS. They are domestic because they are created in the purview of those that created them; hellow? CONGRESS and that makes them domestic to the federal laws of consumption of their abilities that created them. THEY ARE NOT STATE as in the bounds of the state in which this happened.

Now this is where that POS cop come in. THAT POS cop is and has formed a compact with THE state that pays him and only for those laws. Think me wrong then contemplate all this bullshit about these sanctuary cities and shit. So ask yourself how did that POS cop who is non domestic think he could ever effect a domestic law and do it all wrong in his non domestic way and expect you to feed his family over it?
 

Goldhedge

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#17
You might contact Eddie Craig at https://taooflaw.wordpress.com/about/

this sounds like government overreach - color of law.

I also wonder if someone has to call in the 'trespass', or do the local police just do it as a courtesy?

If anything, you'll learn something from tao of law
 

Krag

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#18
Thanks for the legal analysis, Gary North's site says no legal or tax questions because he is not qualified. In a sense the cop saying I wasn't exercising common sense has some legitimacy, but not really the issue here. I saw one train ambling down the tracks hundreds of yards away, it roared its horn as I walked down the bank by the side of the police precinct. Deputy dog swung into "action", he looked like an angry scrawny small person pretending to be a somebody. After he vented his full rage at me, then saw I was from one of the wealthier neighboring towns, not South Norwalk, had no record, he gave me the ticket, I said I would be going over his weasley head. I don't have Legal Shield or Hyatt Legal any more, so will just have to figure it out myself with help here, etc..
 

michael59

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#19
Thanks for the legal analysis, Gary North's site says no legal or tax questions because he is not qualified. In a sense the cop saying I wasn't exercising common sense has some legitimacy, but not really the issue here. I saw one train ambling down the tracks hundreds of yards away, it roared its horn as I walked down the bank by the side of the police precinct. Deputy dog swung into "action", he looked like an angry scrawny small person pretending to be a somebody. After he vented his full rage at me, then saw I was from one of the wealthier neighboring towns, not South Norwalk, had no record, he gave me the ticket, I said I would be going over his weasley head. I don't have Legal Shield or Hyatt Legal any more, so will just have to figure it out myself with help here, etc..
Trust me bud. U'll take the stand AND stay on the legal stuff. DO NOT LIKE EVER say I WAS CHASING BUTTERFLIES; LIKE EVER!

All I said was "I wanted to watch the river run." They got me for the trespass but dropped the resisting arrest...ahahayaeh..sorry yeah...the RR cop had one cuff on and said aaahhhhit he said "I'm to old for this shit" as I got up and walked away....aww fuck-then the railroad gang jumped my ass. FUCK!

Keep it to the law as in who owns or dos't own the right of way. In fact I used the old picture of the great northern railway that was in their f'n courthouse...and I argued it ….I had it till I hit the stand and started talking daisies....yep, fucked myself as only I can do.

So, on a somber note here. do a within 72 hour motion to dismiss for lack of standing, lack of corporate subrogation....um? Leave the subrogation out of it till yo do the court thing.....one never knows if the city-county-state has done a subrogation. BUT, and that is a BIG but. but subrogation means able to step into their shoes and is usually done for insurance proposes. Meaning: Michael collides with Krag's purrrmobile. Your insurance company and mine are subrogated by contract to step into our shoes and peruse. So only raise this subrogation after they rest at trial because if they do not do it or it is not an issue AT trial or in answers or pleadings then it is not part of the case that they can ...in otherwords….let themfuck themselves...and they will.
 

michael59

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#20
Thanks for the legal analysis, Gary North's site says no legal or tax questions because he is not qualified. In a sense the cop saying I wasn't exercising common sense has some legitimacy, but not really the issue here. I saw one train ambling down the tracks hundreds of yards away, it roared its horn as I walked down the bank by the side of the police precinct. Deputy dog swung into "action", he looked like an angry scrawny small person pretending to be a somebody. After he vented his full rage at me, then saw I was from one of the wealthier neighboring towns, not South Norwalk, had no record, he gave me the ticket, I said I would be going over his weasley head. I don't have Legal Shield or Hyatt Legal any more, so will just have to figure it out myself with help here, etc..
just write down right now what you said to the cop and what you think he said to you; DO IT. here is the thing Krag, if you chose to take this to trial and the prosecutor asks to read it he will say where are all your other writings about how you deal with cops? You either have a journal about that or not BUT NEVER, like ever hand over a journal of yur years, like ever. You just tell the mofo that you were traveling on untitled property to go poop some where. IF the prosecutor says it is railroad property then say "Is the title in evidence?" And, do not talk about butterflies, like at all.....just keep it law.

forgot to add: just tell the sumnabiotch "This is my journal for that interaction."

shit have to add: do not talk about going to poop as that is none of their business and, and because if you do talk about why you were doing something then you also are talking about butterflies. get what I am getting at?
 

GOLDBRIX

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#21
TRESPASSING ? Then technically when you or your vehicle moves across train tracks where a roadway crosses on at RR track THAT would also be TRESPASSING.
To be criminal there must be intent to commit a crime.
No Intent- No Crime.
 

Krag

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#22
Get a load of this story where a cop gave a "tune up" to this guy Hunter who just told me about it:

"I pulled into a tiny Montana hamlet to make a call on pay phone in the nineties; I was pulling a horse trailer with equipment I'd used to build fence. Saw highway patrol looking disgruntled; he pulled a u turn and walked around my vehicle as I walked back from phone booth. Your safety chain is broken, he said. I know; it's been broken for 2 weeks; give me a ticket or throw me in jail. He started pushing me lightly both hands on chest..Looking for trouble? I didn't answer.

"He now accused me of having stolen my ford bronco, and my registration, insurance and dl made no difference. He wanted to cuff me and take me to jail in Fort Benton 15 miles away. I argued: disorderly conduct. Finally I let him cuff me one hand...put your hands together (they were 1/4 inch apart). Sullen I did not respond, so he yanked my cuffed arm spinning me around, and I yanked the cuff out of his hand. He smiled and his hand went for his belt..I thought he was going to shoot me. Still smiling at me....psssssst....pepper spray in the eyes. I went down rubbing snow in my eyes...get me water...that was smart of me.

"I'll tell you what..get in the cruiser with hands cuffed behind and I'll get you water. So I did and he got in and drove us to FB. On the way, my head cleared and eyes stopped hurting. I made a polite little speech in which I characterized his psychological and moral profile, in a conversational tone, no bad language, no raised voice, sort of clinical analysis. I could see he was mad in the mirror, so when he reached over and punched a button I figured it was a tape recorder. So I stopped talking.

"He was pals with the JP, good looking woman, who refused to listen to my query about his refusal to accept my registration. She cut me off ignored me. When I tried the 3rd time,she said, "How'd you like to spend three weeks in jail." Don't like. Shut up then.

"They let me bunk in a cell that night; when the slug that took my mug shot aimed the camera, I grinned wickedly and laughed. He shuddered and said, "We'll find out if you have a criminal record. More laughter.

"Next morning I paid a $350 fine and had to hitch hike back to Loma to get my Bronco and trailer. "

Rogue cops; legal remedies are numerous, through lawyers, reports to state AG; online description of abuse of harassment with full descriptions of perpetrators involved. It could go on for years, you have a duty to blacken their names and hurt their careers.
 

michael59

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#23
I told one to go ahead and write the ticket...actually she caught me doing 55 in a 35 and had just been outfitted with some kind of recording devise, which she told me about. But dammm did she drone on and on and on and....So I told her qit fucking around and just write the dam ticket. She then said "I don't think you want a 485 ticket." And, she was correct so she let me off with a warning.

never seen a cop in that corner again but I was always doing 35.
 

Joe King

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#24
Yep, trespassing. That's what it's called when you cut across property that ain't yours or that you lack permission to cross.

Then technically when you or your vehicle moves across train tracks where a roadway crosses on at RR track THAT would also be TRESPASSING.
The crossing is the place one is permitted to cross. Ie: a public easement. There is no easement between crossings.


The way trespassing works where I live, is that it must be posted or information otherwise conveyed to the person that they are on private property. In order to get a ticket or be arrested for it, one must either ignore the postings, or ignore verbal instruction to leave the area.
Ie: if it's not physically posted as no trespassing, you have to be informed and then given the opportunity to leave before you can be ticketed or arrested.
 

hoarder

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#26
Just keeping you safe by taking your money. If there are no no trespassing signs is it trespassing? Normally a property has to have posted signs for it to be a trespassing charge.
The railroad industry was built on special privilege. They were first granted land in the olden days to run rails, then in modern times used eminent domain to steal the way. Now they act like the railroads are private property. A cop with good judgement understands the railroads are "public domain" to the extent that it doesn't interfere with rail traffic or maintenance.
 

michael59

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#27
Doesn't there have to be a complaint (railroad) to level a trespassing charge?
There is the rub I was trying to explain. The cop is a Corporate person that has no standing on a federal right of way to issue a corporate arrest ticket.
Rail Roads are domestic/federal; cop is city/state. The cop swears to support the constitution of the USA but not the federal codes but he does swear to support the constitution of the state and it's laws/codes.
 

edsl48

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#30
Things like this do not surprise me at all. Here in taxinois I read that the State Police will now issue tickets for driving in the left lane when not passing. In the past it was only ticket able if one was impeding traffic flow. My assumption is and is made stronger by this post's description of ticket issuance. Currently each and every taxing and enforcement body here is in high gear requiring fines and or fees for practically everything it now seems. According to our City we now need a building permit to simply replace a window. (I am not kidding) To me the big issue here is that these so called public employees recognize that sooner or later their pensions and related salary funding is going to implode. By maximizing fund collections, by fines and fees, the day of inevitable will be stayed off a bit longer. This affects each and every Governmental employee here and they are taking it to the max. How sad it is that our supposed civil servants are now about the equivalent of the free stuff army but hold on to your hats...this is just the beginning.
 

Krag

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#31
So it is. Just pay the thing and move on.
I'll challenge in court, it strikes me as really unjust and often when you show up in court you are much better off than not. Those who always fear law enforcement are like my brother; at one point he had a lot to fear with the law because he broke many real mala in se laws; now that he is following most of the important laws, he thinks the cop is like God; I don't.
 

hammerhead

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#32
I'll challenge in court, it strikes me as really unjust and often when you show up in court you are much better off than not. Those who always fear law enforcement are like my brother; at one point he had a lot to fear with the law because he broke many real mala in se laws; now that he is following most of the important laws, he thinks the cop is like God; I don't.
If you got the time, and it won't be costing you any lost wages, you may as well put up a stink. I've let myself get rung through not knowing any better. Of course if I had a real attorney instead of a court appointed, I would have fared better. Good luck.
 

Fatrat

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#34
Many years ago I got a ticket for 3 miles over the limit in a 40 MPH, cop said I was the slowest speeder he caught all day. Rat bastard.
 

GOLDBRIX

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#35
Many years ago I got a ticket for 3 miles over the limit in a 40 MPH, cop said I was the slowest speeder he caught all day. Rat bastard.
Sounds like Arkansas.
The state use to have signs "SPEED LIMIT STRICTLY ENFORCED . NO EXCEPTIONS"
 

michael59

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#36
(a) A person is guilty of simple trespass of railroad property when, knowing that such person is not licensed or privileged to do so, such person enters or remains on railroad property without lawful authority or the consent of the railroad carrier
now can the railroad prove they own the property in question? What you want to do is follow the chain of turn overs in that did the original sudo owner hold title? Then there is the question of : Is the rail road the victim? And is the city/county/state subrogated to the railroad? This subrogation means can the city/county/state step into the railroads shoes?

Then there is the 'simple trespass.'simple trespass is a tort. I get caught by you crossing your property because you have no fence. You come out and tell me it is your property and I must leave. I leave, end of my disturbing the peace/your peace/end of story. Hell simple trespass is not even chargeable here in Oregon but it is still a tort as in I have wronged you. I have caused harm and injury to you but it still is not chargeable alone.
 

michael59

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#38
What if I had refused to provide ID to the rogue cop? I thought that SCOTUS ruled against them on that or is that only when there has been no justification? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes
good question about the ID. I have had many a curious lookie loo ask me to produce ID...and, it's a questioning look and a "I am not a client of the state of Oregon." It is then the pen and paper comes out and I am on my way.

I do not ever lie about who I am. Now if there is a denial of due processes then I am not a happy camper because I know that, that leads to malicious prosecution.
 

Joe King

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#39
What if I had refused to provide ID to the rogue cop?
He'd have hauled you in to face the Judge, which very well could have been sometime the following day. Ie: you might have gotten 3 hots and a cot.

I thought that SCOTUS ruled against them on that or is that only when there has been no justification?
I'm pretty sure that's only when there's been no legal justification for them to engage with you. If they've seen you commit a crime otherwise break the law, they tend to be justified in initiating contact.
 

Joe King

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#40
(a) A person is guilty of simple trespass of railroad property when, knowing that such person is not licensed or privileged to do so, such person enters or remains on railroad property without lawful authority or the consent of the railroad carrier.

Well there's your "out".

there were no signs against trespassing, etc..

If you honestly had no knowledge that it was trespassing and it was not posted as no trespassing, you can't be guilty of trespassing. The law itself states that to be guilty, one must have foreknowledge that they are on property they do not have permission to be on.

If it wasn't marked, go take pics of the area where you entered RR property as evidence for Court and present them along with the law that says that to be guilty requires that you knew you were trespassing and that the officer did not give you the opportunity to remove yourself from the property after informing you that you weren't permitted to be there.