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$136 Ticket from cop for walking over railroad tracks

michael59

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#41
Give um hell Krag and, and when the Judge asks why you are fighting the ticket so much just tell him "Because I don't want to feed his children or your grand children you thieves." Umm mybe leave that part out but give um hell.

But watch out for the tricky questions such as "How could you not know? ; The tracks are posted all over? And my favorite "WHY DO YOU THINK THEY HAVE CROSSING ARMS AT ROADS FOR?"
answers: How could I not know?; How could I?; I din't see a security guard.
answer: The tracks are posted all over? Really where? Why they are posted at such and so. Oh really I never seen them, what do they look like? He describes them and you say: Oh wow really? Never noticed maybey you could recces and we could go over there right now and you could point them out.
And the last answer: Well according to what I have had to read because of this courts lack of due process is that railroads have to pay for all the damage they do so arm crossings are there to mitigate that damage. [it is at this part you pullout your tort cites.]

But the real thing to do is before 72 hours is up you have filed with the court clerk a 'dismiss for lack of standing.' and list everything in this thread that works in your defense along with the cites to go with it.

And, like Joe said "Knowingly" You have to knowingly do it so what that means is you get caught another time like later down the road of time and this court thingy happening now is their proof. Kind of like getting told to get off someone's property and not leaving and a cop shows up and escorts you off or tells you to get off because the next time it is a TRESPASS. AND, that is the difference between simple trespass and TRESPASS.
 

Krag

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#42
A nice local guy who is a hairdresser asked why I didn't meekly tell the cop to go easy on me because I was going to get my car that had broken down the night before? I guess we are supposed to accept whatever mistreatment the cops try to foist on us.
 
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offourse2

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#44
Here in Florida I have learned to be careful about fighting tickets. Beat the $150 ticket and had to pay $245 in court costs. When I asked the judge why the cop didn't pay for wasting the courts time I got a canned speech about how the court system barely gets by.
 

michael59

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#45
Here in Florida I have learned to be careful about fighting tickets. Beat the $150 ticket and had to pay $245 in court costs. When I asked the judge why the cop didn't pay for wasting the courts time I got a canned speech about how the court system barely gets by.
That's when you give written notice and file a tort claim for malicious prosecution. You get to add the court costs BUT, but I did pay a lawyer and he said: Look, you have a boat, you load it up and it might be the best boat you have ever built or seen but as soon as you push off from the dock they will shoot it full of holes. I paid for an hour of his time and got an hour and a half and learned a lot.
 

michael59

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#46
A nice local guy who is a hairdresser asked why I didn't meekly tell the cop to go easy on me because I was going to get my car that had broken down the night before? I guess we are supposed to accept whatever mistreatment the cops try to foist on us.
And, that is chasing butterflies. Do not tell them that because what you are saying is you were taking the shortest route and were over coming an obstacle which they have already integrated in to the proceedings as a trespass, hence you will be found guilty. When they ask a question as to why you were there Object "relevancy." Why you are/were there is not important the important part is the constitutionality of freedom of travel to wit: The right of way is only closed to commercial trespass as in utilizing the rails themselves or digging in the write of way or destroying railroad property.

Remember: the rails or the right of way is not an obstacle because a knowing person can and will overcome obstacles.

Look in my case I was up on trespass and resisting arrest. I beat the trespass but because I showed my intent which was to watch the river run (because it was flooding and they shut down the collage,) I showed my intent was to trespass and therefore the resisting arrest was a lawful charge.

The way it works is they, well in y case, they will send the jury out of the room and the lawyers get to argue on the charging document to give to the jury when they come back in. By charging document I mean the jury charge. During this argument I was winning but then the judge brought out the "Wanted to watch the river run;" my chasing butterflies. Even my lawyer said "That's strange that they went 50/50."

But you only have the simple trespass and I know you can beat that. Now as per the afore mentioned court costs when the judge mutters those words "Object: court costs are an unproportioned tax." Now that will set him back.

A tax is ANYTHING you give to the state or have to pay to the state. You are taxed on the plates to your car but those/that tax is proportioned to a certain amount that every one pays who has a car. Now what about the people who do not have a car, doesn't the people who do have a car; are they not paying an unproportioned tax compared to those people? No, the people who do not have a car are not being charged so. So, because they cannot prosecute you for not having a car you do not pay the tax. Meaning, because they cannot prosecute you anymore for trespass as charges have been dropped (you there fore have no car) you cannot be taxed.

On the fine/tax thing: I have had the pleasure of reading every single word in the Oregon Revised Statutes, and mainly because I wake up like at midnight with nothing to do so I decided to read. And, I came across some statute where they used the words tax and fine, taxed and fined, interchangeably in the same statute. So they mean the same thing here inside the bounds of Oregon and if they mean the same thing here then they mean the same thing in Connecticut.
 

D-FENZ

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#47
If it wasn't marked, go take pics of the area where you entered RR property as evidence for Court and present them along with the law that says that to be guilty requires that you knew you were trespassing and that the officer did not give you the opportunity to remove yourself from the property after informing you that you weren't permitted to be there.
Just thinking our loud here- If possible (and if you are sure there are no railroad bulls around) make a well-worn trail in the weeds leading up to the tracks where you crossed before snapping the photo.
 

michael59

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#48
about your photos? Just stay out of the rightofway while taking them.....drone maybe? Be a good excuse for getting one.
 

hoarder

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#50
Here in Florida I have learned to be careful about fighting tickets. Beat the $150 ticket and had to pay $245 in court costs. When I asked the judge why the cop didn't pay for wasting the courts time I got a canned speech about how the court system barely gets by.
Those poor judges barely make a living. maybe they should quit and get a job raking leaves or something lucrative like that.

It's another hidden tax increase. If you run into a guardrail nowadays, they bill you for repairs that used to be in the budget. Parasites.
 

Krag

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#51
Those poor judges barely make a living. maybe they should quit and get a job raking leaves or something lucrative like that.

It's another hidden tax increase. If you run into a guardrail nowadays, they bill you for repairs that used to be in the budget. Parasites.
Here in CT they threw out the seat belt ticket well over $100 just because I showed up, there were dozens of other rented mules unwilling to send in their hard earned money who probably also got off without paying $$$.

They are just full of bluster, the cops, in the end they are just system idiots, fueled by people in trouble or the unlucky. Dogs.

As for judges not being paid much maybe you should look up the salary scale for judges in various jurisdictions.
 

hoarder

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#52
As for judges not being paid much maybe you should look up the salary scale for judges in various jurisdictions.
I was being sarcastic.
 

michael59

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#53
As for judges not being paid much maybe you should look up the salary scale for judges in various jurisdictions.
them ef'ers make bank.

edited to add,,,ahaha shit...darn; edited to add I gots a court thingy on march 19th.....hahahaha me and misser collections.
 
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Zed

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#54
Strewth mate! You'd be stuffed down here, hundreds of miles between crossings.

 

Zed

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#55
Sorry I have no ID on me, is that against the law?
 

Krag

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#59
Yes, construction site, they have put it up since, this is 3 months later.
 

michael59

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#60
And, still, as I see it there are no, no trespass signage still. Looks like an attractive nuisance or rather an invitation to cross at that point with the ramp leading up to a crossing.
 

Krag

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#62
have you drawn up any motions to dismiss yet?
Since this is Fairfield County with a couple deaths a year on the rr tracks they may have a zero tolerance policy. Judges around here are pretty hard boiled.

My strategy is to show up early, see what the prosecutor wants to do, present my information. If they nail me how do I appeal?
 

michael59

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#63
You are going to a hearing not a trial. Just stick with the "No signage," "knowingly,"

Remember that why you were crossing has no relevance to the trespass you are being charged with because the STATE does not own the tracks or the right of way the tracks are situated on. The charge is a simple trespass and 'simple trespass' is repelled/satisfied by just being told to keep off the tracks. It's like walking down a sidewalk and having a bully step in front of you and tell you, you cannot pass and then accosting you for trying to pass; there has to be signage.

I know you have seen such signage before like 'Sidewalk Closed,' 'Road Closed.' Seeing signage with those words lets you know that the right of way is closed and not having such signage means it is open to travel. Like I said before and I will say it again.....There is only one kind of trespass on the rails and it is commercial trespass. What commercial trespass is, is putting your own rolling stock on the rails. The land upon which the rails are attached to only carries a surface deed to the railroad. Having a surface deed means that you or me cannot put or use any mechanical contrivances in the right of way as we have not been given license from the railroad. So read the last 5 words of the last sentence.

been given license from the railroad

Ask yourself if the STATE has been subrogated unto a federal domestic corporation? BUT do not ask that question phrased that way instead ask it like: "So it is the testimony of the STATE that it is subrogated to a private corporation?" You ask that question, that way, and you are going to set the prosecutor and the judge back on their heals because they are not going to know; meaning they cannot answer because they are not well versed in what a domestic private corporation is which is a railroad.

On a different note: Back in the days of GIM.1 it was Scorpio, Goldhedge or somebody, IDK who, posted a thread about what a domestic corporation was. I always thought it was like McDonalds but it is not, in fact it is not any fiction registered to do business in any STATE. A domestic corporation is one that has been authorized by the congress, and railroads fit into that category along with a few others.

So the STATE OF.... has no vested interest in them in fact the STATE OF.... has no standing to sue or to charge you but you are going to have to make them see that fact because all the state wants is power over you to make a charge so it can tax you and it dos not care one iota if t uses subterfuge to get it done.
 

Krag

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#65
The prosecutor said that I was "required" to know. Omg, what a laugh riot. The cop said common sense that people are supposed to know, you don't walk over rr tracks, I questioned what that is based on? When we got to who owns the rr tracks and property the prosecutor said the rr company owns it therefore John Q Public is "trespassing".
 

michael59

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The prosecutor said that I was "required" to know. Omg, what a laugh riot. The cop said common sense that people are supposed to know, you don't walk over rr tracks, I questioned what that is based on? When we got to who owns the rr tracks and property the prosecutor said the rr company owns it therefore John Q Public is "trespassing".
Is the railroad there to prove they own it?

K, so I am taking it that 'you' are/have been set a trial date?
 

michael59

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GOLDBRIX

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#69
Thing is IF a trial date is set then you now have discovery.....which is cool.
BINGO!
This is where you bog them down with THEIR Required TO KNOW.
WHO OWNS the Property and evidence of such ?
Copy of the Lease of Right of WAY(S) where roads intersect railroad property.
How is the State or Local "HARMED" in this accusation and a copy of the evidence ?

Just to get you started.
Best of Luck Krag

Even if you do not win in the long run you will burn up any profit the governing local/state was working for, and probably even more.Gb
 

Joe King

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#70
Other side, it was open when I went over it:
I assume that you have pics showing how it existed at the time of the alleged offense? If not, how do show that the fence wasn't there at the time?


Yes, construction site, they have put it up since, this is 3 months later.
See what you made 'em do? lol


The charge is a simple trespass and 'simple trespass' is repelled/satisfied by just being told to keep off the tracks. It's like walking down a sidewalk and having a bully step in front of you and tell you, you cannot pass and then accosting you for trying to pass; there has to be signage.
A person telling you that you are trespassing also works in lieu of signage. Ie: if there are no signs, a cop informing you that you are trespassing is the same as you suddenly seeing a sign informing you that you are in fact trespassing. At that point, the person must be given an opportunity to leave the area.




The prosecutor said that I was "required" to know. Omg, what a laugh riot. The cop said common sense that people are supposed to know, you don't walk over rr tracks, I questioned what that is based on? When we got to who owns the rr tracks and property the prosecutor said the rr company owns it therefore John Q Public is "trespassing".
Did you ask which section of Code requires people to use "common sense"?
...and have you yourself taken the time to look up your local trespassing laws to see what they actually say? Ie: does your local law actually say that notice is required for there to be a crime of trespassing? Ie: the person trespassing has to know that they are in fact trespassing for that trespass to be criminal. That's why you sometimes see property with no trespassing signs every so many feet. They are making sure that any person crossing would reasonably be expected to know that what they are doing is criminal.

At least that's how it is in my State. In fact, I once beat a charge due to the fact that I had been stopped for trespassing, but ended up being ticketed for something else. Case was easily dismissed due to the fact that the cop did not allow me to leave after the initial contact for trespassing. At that point there was no other reason for him to detain me. He made me stay there and after the ol', "one thing leads to another" I ended up with a citation for something other than trespassing.
....but that citation would not have been possible to write had he done what he was supposed to by allowing me the chance to correct my mistake of having unknowingly trespassed.
 

Rusty Shackelford

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Curious...shouldnt the property owner be required to press charges prior to the conviction by the cop? Or do they have a standing order to file charges for tresspass with the REOs? If that is the case, does the property owner pay additional fees for having the police patrol their private property?
 

Rusty Shackelford

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The prosecutor said that I was "required" to know. Omg, what a laugh riot. The cop said common sense that people are supposed to know, you don't walk over rr tracks, I questioned what that is based on? When we got to who owns the rr tracks and property the prosecutor said the rr company owns it therefore John Q Public is "trespassing".
To which you replay, it is common sense that people should know not to ever get involved with cops in any manner, cuz it never ever ends in a positive manner for the common person.