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200 Proofs Earth is Not a Spinning Ball

Joe King

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you cannot expect gravity to care about a piddly mountain when there's an entire Earth distracting it..."
And you can't comprehend that the whole rest of the Earth is in fact trillions of times more massive than the mountain, therefore rendering any gravitational effects of the mountains mass insignificant?

How can you be intelligent enough to acknowledge the mountain's mass, yet ignore the much greater mass of the whole Earth that the mountain is setting on top of? It stands to reason that if one expects the mountain to attract the grain of sand, that the Earth would more strongly attract it instead.
 

Joe King

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Unh...
So far not good.
You think it'll be getting better anytime soon?


This just goes back to my original point. These people are simply struggling with the concept of just how BIG this ball is on which we live.
Unfortunately, they struggle with much more than just that.


You go sit under some apple trees while we shake them violently. How long before you get tired of apples hitting your head will it take to convince you of this force?
He's convinced that density is why the apples would fall when you shake the tree.
Ie: afterall, apples are in fact more dense than air. Lol
 

Voodoo

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Ah the ball is "big"! Sorry I forgot to account for the ball being "big". Ya know the sun is also "big" and newtonian gravitational theory says it steals Earth's moon because Earth isn't that "big" relative to the sun...but I guess gravity also has a sense of honor and wouldn't allow the sun to steal Earth's moon because that'd be wrong.

Thanks for entertaining guys. LOL

Can anyone come up with ANY way in which you or I can test gravitational theory? ...and yes I'm aware I can drop things. ...and no that doesn't prove gravity is a "universal force" or that mass causes "space/time" to warp.

I've already suggested we build scientific models to prove:

Gravitational accretion models in a lab. Nope can't cuz we can't make gravity work in a lab.
Gravitational containment of gas pressure in a lab. Nope can't cuz we can't make gravity work in a lab.
A rotating water covered rock operating in a vacuum. Nope can't cuz we can't make gravity work in a lab.

Do you know what it's called when an alleged scientific theory cannot be proven or disproven? ...well it ain't science.

I do apologize for insulting your religion though. I just think your religion sucks ass when it makes an absolute mockery of science.
You are making a SERIOUS fault in logic here. If you can't accept the simple concepts then no one is going to listen to the more advanced concepts. Yes, there are things about gravity that aren't proven. Good, but the diameter and shape of the Earth is pretty much as close to a proven fact as you can get.
 

Voodoo

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So someone tried to use the Basketball comparison for not seeing the curvature. I just did some quick math and the average man would be 0.1045 microns on the surface of that basketball. That would be approx the size of your average virus particle. Do you think the coronovirus has arguments with each other about the flatness of a basketball on which they may have landed?
 

solarion

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Yes, there are things about gravity that aren't proven.
k...so let's focus on what about gravity IS "proven". Can you list them? I'd appreciate it if you could focus on things I can independently verify.

I'll wait.

We've established that we can't prove it complies with inverse square laws. We cannot model it in a lab. So what can "we" meaning you or I actually prove about gravitational theory? What can we DISPROVE about gravitational theory via empiricism? Anything?
 

Joe King

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the diameter and shape of the Earth is pretty much as close to a proven fact as you can get.
@solarion 's own pic he posted proves it.
....but he can't talk about it. Lol
 

Voodoo

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You think it'll be getting better anytime soon?



Unfortunately, they struggle with much more than just that.



He's convinced that density is why the apples would fall when you shake the tree.
Ie: afterall, apples are in fact more dense than air. Lol
I actually also have serious doubts about some of our current concept of gravity. But just because our theory of what causes this force may be wrong, doesn't change the fact that this force is very obviously present and easy to calculate.
 

solarion

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Ah...so it's a "force" and I can calculate it. Kewl, so if I assume it's a "force" then I'm apparently using Newtonian gravitational theory...so if I use that to calculate the rotational speed of a galaxy ...AND IT'S WRONG. Doesn't that mean my theory is SHIT? ...and should DIE?

Oh wait...I forgot about the dark matter I cannot detect in any way...how about I invent that to protect my shitty theory?

What if I wish to model the motion of the planet mercury using my gravitational theory? ...should I care that it too is wrong? Dark matter to the rescue?

When is this process no longer science btw?
 

Voodoo

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Ah...so it's a "force" and I can calculate it. Kewl, so if I assume it's a "force" then I'm apparently using Newtonian gravitational theory...so if I use that to calculate the rotational speed of a galaxy ...AND IT'S WRONG. Doesn't that mean my theory is SHIT? ...and should DIE?

Oh wait...I forgot about the dark matter I cannot detect in any way...how about I invent that to protect my shitty theory?

What if I wish to model the motion of the planet mercury using my gravitational theory? ...should I care that it too is wrong? Dark matter to the rescue?

When is this process no longer science btw?
It means that yes, your theory is wrong. At least on certain scales the theory breaks down. We already found that out with small scales and hence they came up with Quantum Mechanics (which is also questionable in my book). And that is why no one has been able to reconcile two likely wrong theories together.

But you are also very wrong about the shape of the Earth. Accept that and move on
 

Joe King

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I actually also have serious doubts about some of our current concept of gravity. But just because our theory of what causes this force may be wrong, doesn't change the fact that this force is very obviously present and easy to calculate.
Yea, but he says that gravity isn't a thing at all. He says that density is why things fall. Which is why he can't wrap his head around the idea of a water covered rock floating in a vacuum. Because the water should all fall off. Which is why the Earth has to be flat.
 

Voodoo

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Ah...so it's a "force" and I can calculate it. Kewl, so if I assume it's a "force" then I'm apparently using Newtonian gravitational theory...so if I use that to calculate the rotational speed of a galaxy ...AND IT'S WRONG. Doesn't that mean my theory is SHIT? ...and should DIE?

Oh wait...I forgot about the dark matter I cannot detect in any way...how about I invent that to protect my shitty theory?

What if I wish to model the motion of the planet mercury using my gravitational theory? ...should I care that it too is wrong? Dark matter to the rescue?

When is this process no longer science btw?
The whole process IS science. You come up with theories and accept them and test them and OFTEN times you find new evidence that means you were not quite right all along. And then a few people find a new theory and so on. That is science. So instead of complaining about people accepting this flawed theory how about working on the correct theory?
 

Voodoo

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Yea, but he says that gravity isn't a thing at all. He says that density is why things fall. Which is why he can't wrap his head around the idea of a water covered rock floating in a vacuum. Because the water should all fall off. Which is why the Earth has to be flat.
So if this force causes apples to fall on said persons head, would it also not pull water in the same manner. Similar to any observable waterfall?

Let's think about this theory then, if density is causing the force that we call gravity. What is more dense, the iron core of our planet or the emptiness of space? So why would water flow to space instead of flowing towards the dense iron core of the planet?
 

solarion

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Quantum theory works fine WITHOUT GRAVITY. ...are you sure it's quantum mechanics that's broken? BTW quantum mechanics works on provable fundamental forces. Those forces work just fine in labs...unlike gravity...which is remarkably bashful.
So instead of complaining about people accepting this flawed theory how about working on the correct theory?
I have been. Shall I repeat the question I asked above? ...that you completely ignored?
k...so let's focus on what about gravity IS "proven". Can you list them? I'd appreciate it if you could focus on things I can independently verify.
 

Joe King

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That is science. So instead of complaining about people accepting this flawed theory how about working on the correct theory?
But it's so much easier to just complain. Lol
 

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The whole process IS science. You come up with theories and accept them and test them and OFTEN times you find new evidence that means you were not quite right all along. And then a few people find a new theory and so on. That is science. So instead of complaining about people accepting this flawed theory how about working on the correct theory?
I too have a problem with the elusive "black matter". Meanwhile back on earth, do "thoughts" possess substance? Does a thought possess weight? Where do thoughts come from? These are the questions that will never get asked or answered for as long as the mysterious "black matter" nonsense is bantered about.... JMO
 

Joe King

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So if this force causes apples to fall on said persons head, would it also not pull water in the same manner. Similar to any observable waterfall?
Yea, but he says that if the Earth is rotating it should all be flung off into space. Lol
....and that's why the Earth has to be flat. Lol
 

solarion

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If one wishes humans to NOT ask fundamental questions then an effective strategy would be to provide the answers before hand...when humans believe they "know" things, they stop seeking answers to the fundamental questions.
 

Voodoo

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If one wishes humans to NOT ask fundamental questions then an effective strategy would be to provide the answers before hand...when humans believe they "know" things, they stop seeking answers to the fundamental questions.
Certainly true and one of the most wise comments given to me before my dissertation. The professor said Never say that you "know" something as you are likely to be proven wrong. But the evidence for a large round ball that we call Earth is virtually overwhelming.
 

solarion

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But the evidence for a large round ball that we call Earth is virtually overwhelming.
Ah virtually overwhelming. Kewl.

Is it "virtually overwhelming" without the existence of gravity? ...to be taken on faith?

That would be NOPE. The spinning water pear model is completely reliant upon gravitational theory. So again...can you show me ANYTHING that I can independently verify about gravitational theory? Gravitational theory that again is PROVABLY WRONG...and that's precisely why dark matter exists and is a ridiculous 69% of the alleged "mass" in the universe according to mainstream cosmology. This is so far from science at this point that nobody should be taking it seriously.

Keep your belief structures in place...I've no problem with that. Just DO NOT tell me it's science...it is NOT.
 

Voodoo

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Yea, but he says that if the Earth is rotating it should all be flung off into space. Lol
....and that's why the Earth has to be flat. Lol
So the problem just comes down to rotational velocity. We could rotate very slowly and have no problems, speed up too much and I to will want off this giant merry-go round (preferably in a nice space craft).
 

Voodoo

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Ah virtually overwhelming. Kewl.

Is it "virtually overwhelming" without the existence of gravity? ...to be taken on faith?

That would be NOPE. The spinning water pear model is completely reliant upon gravitational theory. So again...can you show me ANYTHING that I can independently verify about gravitational theory?
You are being very obtuse, I believe this is called cognitive dissonance. Clearly I was referring to the evidence that the Earth is in fact a big spheroid.
 

Joe King

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when humans believe they "know" things, they stop seeking answers
Well of course, as only an idiot would keep looking for his car keys after he already found them.

So the problem just comes down to rotational velocity.
A flat Earth has no rotational velocity. Which is why the water is still here. In his book, any rotational velocity would instantly fling all the water off the surface. Us too.
 

solarion

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Can you prove Earth is a "big" spheroid? Can you do so independently? Can you prove that "big" spheroid is 7917 miles in diameter?
So the problem just comes down to rotational velocity.
Well that's not much of an issue. 24901 / 24 = 1037.54

Now what is it that's keeping things from flying off the surface of Earth again? ...and how can I prove/disprove its existence? I mean I have these two competing mainstream theories of gravity that contradict one another. Can I simply choose one and have at it? ...and if so HOW if gravity cannot be tested by me...ever...but must instead be taken on faith?
 

Joe King

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You are being very obtuse, I believe this is called cognitive dissonance.
Now you're got it figured out. Welcome to the club. Lol
 

Joe King

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Can you prove Earth is a "big" spheroid? Can you do so independently? Can you prove that "big" spheroid is 7917 miles in diameter?
You already proved it with that pic of Chicago you posted, that once it was explained to you, you now have to ignore. Lol

Anywhere on Earth that the true horizon is visible and there is something beyond the horizon that a portion of it is visible above the horizon, can be used to calculate the curvature of the Earth's surface.

Same as I did with your pic of Chicago. It shows that the Earth's surface is entirely consistent with a spheroid shaped Earth approx 7917 miles in diameter.
 

Bottom Feeder

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Sol, just what is it about gravity that you want proof of?
Just the newtonian explanation for it? That's already been rejected.
So what proof? Are you talking about the "inverse square law" or just what exactly is the problem with you here? Or do you even know?
In your mind it's just all wrong, is that it? Everything?
To refute gravity means you would have to refute the existence of the universe.

Just tryin to think this through.
It's kinda hard to see your point.
BF
 

Joe King

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Just tryin to think this through.
It's kinda hard to see your point.
Thinking it through is the problem.
You have to go through it without thinking about it.
 

solarion

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To refute gravity means you would have to refute the existence of the universe.
LOL Really?

Let me try again then. Which of these FOUR alleged fundamental forces of nature cannot be proven scientifically by anyone at any time?

1580751268937.png


This gravitational theory thing is so in your head you cannot even envision the possibility that it doesn't exist? Does electricity exist? How do you know electricity exists? How does electricity(the flow of electrons) differ from gravity? Is it that I can prove it exists to anyone at any time...via empiricism?

You do realize that any motion on Earth can be described perfectly...mathematically without employing grandiose gravitational theory yes? It's simply not necessary to invent a "universal" theory of gravity to describe the world in which any human can interact with at any time.
 

DodgebyDave

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Thinking it through is the problem.
You have to go through it without thinking about it.
Bitterly clinging to the hopium!
 

Zed

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Would it? What makes you think that? Have you ever tested it?

So when NASA allegedly has men standing on the moon dropping a feather and a hammer to demonstrate that objects on the moon fall at the same rate irrespective of "weight" what is that then? Same alleged "gravity", no real air sphere to provide resistance, differing mass, and yet...somehow they fall at the same rate. Which is in direct defiance of newtonian gravitational theory's inverse squaring function.


Did gravity forget it's supposed to have an inverse squaring function here? Is this guy actually on the moon...IYO? What do you suppose happened to gravity in this experiment? Did it have an off day?

The interesting thing about gravitational theory is everything about it always seems to be un-provable and un-disprovable by anyone on Earth. You cannot test gravitational accretion on Earth because reasons. You cannot test gravitational containment of gas pressure on Earth because reasons. You cannot test a rotating rock covered in water operating in a vacuum because reasons.

These are all things one must take on faith without the ability to confirm or deny one's self. From that standpoint gravitational theory has a whole lot more in common with religious dogma than it does anything to do with science(knowledge).

...and in Earth's alleged "gravity" allegedly in a vacuum chamber.


The speed at which these objects fall has nothing to do with "air resistance" in either of these demonstrations. The amount of alleged gravity SHOULD be different between the objects demonstrated in both of these experiments(differing mass) if Sir Isaac was correct in his universal law of gravitation...yet clearly this data contradicts his findings. Does that bother you?

It sure didn't seem to bother the astro-nots or brian cox. Do they not understand newtonian gravitational theory?
You so obviously didn't do physics. Your understanding is what's flawed. All proof you have cited is in line with theory.
 

solarion

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I've repeatedly apologized for blaspheming against your religious beliefs.

Instead of telling me how I haven't "done" physics, how about taking over where BF left off and providing some methodology to independently test the train wreck that is gravitational theory. I simply lack your unwavering faith in scientists and therefore am unable to suspend my own ability to reason.

It seems requesting empirical proof of gravity is akin to asking to see proof of a virgin birth.
 
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Joe King

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I've repeatedly apologized for blaspheming against your religious beliefs.

Instead of telling me how I haven't "done" physics, how about taking over where BF left off and providing some methodology to independently test the train wreck that is gravitational theory. I simply lack your unwavering faith in scientists and therefore am unable to suspend my own ability to reason.

It seems requesting empirical proof of gravity is akin to asking to see proof of a virgin birth.
To do the experiments you are requesting, one needs to leave the Earth and its gravity well. Which has been done, but seeing as they did not send you to do it, you are incapable of believing that it has been done.
The hammer and feather dropped on the Moon fell at a slower rate than did the stuff Cox dropped inside the vac chamber, but both fell at the speed predicted by science based on the theory of gravity.

What does your "theory" about density predict in such locales?
Oh, that's right. It can't be tested because according to your "theory" there is no space, we haven't been off the Planet, let alone to the Moon, the Earth is flat and the Sun and Moon are exactly the same size and circle over the flat Earth at a height of 3000 miles.
Have I got it all right? Lol
 

Zed

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I've repeatedly apologized for blaspheming against your religious beliefs.
Not, me... I am not religious.

Instead of telling me how I haven't "done" physics, how about taking over where BF left off and providing some methodology to independently test the train wreck that is gravitational theory. I simply lack your unwavering faith in scientists and therefore am unable to suspend my own ability to reason.
You are mixing up acceleration and velocity, two different things. The proof you offered just proved that gravity works as described, you seem very confused on that point. It's physics 101 class, ergo you obviously have not studied it.

It seems requesting empirical proof of gravity is akin to asking to see proof of a virgin birth.
Not really, the force is observable where as a virgin birth 200 years ago isn't.

Now while we have observed gravity and described it kinda adequately it is true that we have not fully explained it nor is it a measurable force (with current instruments) like magnetism. The truth is that we don't fully understand what we have observed.


Science's job is to theorise and then try and disprove the theory, it never proves anything per-say. The more robust the theory the better it withstands attempts to disprove it. So far we have shot some holes in most gravity theories and have not come up with a perfect explanation of the force, but that doesn't negate the things we do know and have supported with proofs.
 

solarion

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Yawn. Same old religious tripe.

You are religious, you just think it's science that you worship...when really you worship scientists and their imaginations.

Do you have ANY way that you or I can independently verify gravitational theory? Neither of us can make a model testing gravity...neither of us can confirm that it complies with inverse square laws. So how does one independently verify this miracle you call "gravity"? I've asked the same question over and over and all I get is blather about how I should just have faith. Is there any actual science in here anywhere?
 

Zed

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The speed at which these objects fall has nothing to do with "air resistance" in either of these demonstrations. The amount of alleged gravity SHOULD be different between the objects demonstrated in both of these experiments(differing mass) if Sir Isaac was correct in his universal law of gravitation...yet clearly this data contradicts his findings. Does that bother you?
NO, without atmosphere they are they same, they accelerate @ the same rate. In the presence of air their terminal velocity is what changes as atmospheric resistance operates differently on different objects.

The tests are PERFECT according to what we understand.

So no, it doesn't bother me at all.
 

solarion

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Kewl. Then as I said...enjoy your faith in scientism and your beloved priests as they dream up new rubbish and tell you to have faith in that as well.

Behold! We hath invented DARK MATTER! ...all ye rejoice. <yawn>
 

Zed

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Yawn. Same old religious tripe.
Really? You didn't read the post did you?

You are religious, you just think it's science that you worship...when really you worship scientists and their imaginations.
Theories and proofs are in no way religious, granted not all science is to the standard I'd like to see but there is no worship involved.

Do you have ANY way that you or I can independently verify gravitational theory?
Nobody has yet, look @ the video. All current theories have some issue or other, it is one of the fundamental forces that we don't completely understand.

Neither of us can make a model testing gravity...neither of us can confirm that it complies with inverse square laws.
Well, that work has been done and so far it stands. I don't get what the issue is, you posted two experiments supporting it.

So how does one independently verify this miracle you call "gravity"?
We never independently do much in this life, your independent proofs are mostly conceits.

Gravity is hard to deal with because we can't really escape its effect, all experiments are inside its envelope so to speak.
 

Zed

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Kewl. Then as I said...enjoy your faith in scientism and your beloved priests as they dream up new rubbish and tell you to have faith in that as well.

Behold! We hath invented DARK MATTER! ...all ye rejoice. <yawn>
You are just trolling and displaying ignorance. In your ignorance you posted proof of what we where saying while foolishly believing that it disproved us. You really need to work on understanding what is being said before you have a go at it.
 

solarion

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All current theories have some issue or other
Some issues or another? Is that what we're calling 500 year old theories that are provably WRONG?

Do you know what is supposed to happen to provably wrong theories in proper scientific methodology?