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45% of Americans pay no federal income tax

Scorpio

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#1
45% of Americans pay no federal income tax

MarketWatch

By Catey Hill 26 mins ago


77.5 million households do not pay federal individual income tax. Many Americans don’t have to worry about giving Uncle Sam part of their hard-earned cash for their income taxes this year.

An estimated 45.3% of American households — roughly 77.5 million — will pay no federal individual income tax, according to data for the 2015 tax year from the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan Washington-based research group. (Note that this does not necessarily mean they won’t owe their states income tax.)

Roughly half pay no federal income tax because they have no taxable income, and the other roughly half get enough tax breaks to erase their tax liability, explains Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center.

Despite the fact that rich people paying little in the way of income taxes makes plenty of headlines, this is the exception to the rule: The top 1% of taxpayers pay a higher effective income-tax rate than any other group (around 23%, according to a report released by the Tax Policy Center in 2014) — nearly seven times higher than those in the bottom 50%.

On average, those in the bottom 40% of the income spectrum end up getting money from the government. Meanwhile, the richest 20% of Americans, by far, pay the most in income taxes, forking over nearly 87% of all the income tax collected by Uncle Sam.



The top 1% of Americans, who have an average income of more than $2.1 million, pay 43.6% of all the federal individual income tax in the U.S.; the top 0.1% — just 115,000 households, whose average income is more than $9.4 million — pay more than 20% of it.

When it comes to all federal taxes — individual income, payroll, excise, corporate income and estate taxes — the distributions of who pays what is more spread out. This is partially because nearly everyone pays excise taxes, which includes taxes on gasoline, alcohol and cigarettes.



Catey Hill covers personal finance and travel for MarketWatch in New York. Follow her on Twitter @CateyHill.



http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/taxe...y-no-federal-income-tax/ar-BBpWA1Y?li=BBnb7Kv
 

Ensoniq

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#2
Somethings got to give

The moochers are taking overall
 

Alric

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#3
Somethings got to give

The moochers are taking overall
Yeah it is just people trying to mooch. Has nothing to do with a bad economy, or unemployment or the fact that a lot of jobs just suck and don't pay anything.
 

Ensoniq

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Yeah it is just people trying to mooch. Has nothing to do with a bad economy, or unemployment or the fact that a lot of jobs just suck and don't pay anything.
Yup, The self described Libertarian chimes in to defend redistribution
 

Ensoniq

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#6
The government is the moocher.
They take their cut and add little to no value

I've yet to hear a rational argument why half the people should work so the other half don't have to
 

Alric

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#7
Yup, The self described Libertarian chimes in to defend redistribution
My comment had nothing to do with redistribution at all. It had to do with the idea that all poor people are poor because their mooching. Which simply isn't true.
 

edsl48

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#8
The so called poor in this country have no idea about what poor is. They should travel to some third world country to experience a life without one or more automobiles, cell phones, medicaid, subsidized rent and food stamps to provide daily meals. Meanwhile we have people like Sanders saying even more should be redistributed to the already governmental dependant classes in this country. Too bad all those with this way of thinking could not move to one of the socialist utopias like Cuba or Venezuela where even toilet paper is a coveted good.
 

Alric

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#9
The so called poor in this country have no idea about what poor is. They should travel to some third world country to experience a life without one or more automobiles, cell phones, medicaid, subsidized rent and food stamps to provide daily meals. Meanwhile we have people like Sanders saying even more should be redistributed to the already governmental dependant classes in this country. Too bad all those with this way of thinking could not move to one of the socialist utopias like Cuba or Venezuela where even toilet paper is a coveted good.
There is a lot of poor people without cars, cellphones, subsidized rent or food stamps living in the US. I know the hip thing to do is dehumanize the poor so we can pretend they don't really exist in this country, but what your saying really doesn't reflect reality at all.
 

Alric

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#11
I would suggest Alric that you read the following that is posted in another thread about the poverty in white squatter camps in South Africa to see what real poverty looks like.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...verty-blame-fall-Apartheid.html#ixzz417qg6tXn
There are people starving to death in the US. Regardless how poor you think 'poor' is, if you don't have enough food to feed yourself and be healthy, you are poor. It is hard to argue that someone suffering from malnutrition isn't really poor. Yet here you are. It is hard to believe there are people in the world as sick and uncaring as you, but there are. Telling people suffering from malnutrition to go suck it up and get a higher paying job as if it is the easiest thing to do.
 

edsl48

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#12
There are people starving to death in the US. Regardless how poor you think 'poor' is, if you don't have enough food to feed yourself and be healthy, you are poor. It is hard to argue that someone suffering from malnutrition isn't really poor. Yet here you are. It is hard to believe there are people in the world as sick and uncaring as you, but there are. Telling people suffering from malnutrition to go suck it up and get a higher paying job as if it is the easiest thing to do.
How are people starving with the food stamp programs, the various food giveaway programs and assorted charities. Personally I know what I see with my eyes and what I hear with my ears. If people sell their food stamps for drugs and alcohol and then starve well that is their problem. Perhaps you could reach into your pocket and help them out instead of constantly looking into mine to provide more wasteful spending.
This conversation is over
 

Ensoniq

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#13
Alric is using the fallacious argument "appeal to pity" which is one of the family of red herring arguments.

Neither the article nor I said there were no poor people in or out of the US, or that they shouldn't be taken care of in some form or fashion

The point if the article is that it's freakin half of everyone in the US

btw - the "red herring" phrase came from the old English Fox hunts. To make them more challenging they'd drag a red herring fish through the Forrest to throw the dogs of the scent of the Fox and make the process that much more difficult.
 

Alric

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#14
How are people starving with the food stamp programs, the various food giveaway programs and assorted charities. Personally I know what I see with my eyes and what I hear with my ears. If people sell their food stamps for drugs and alcohol and then starve well that is their problem. Perhaps you could reach into your pocket and help them out instead of constantly looking into mine to provide more wasteful spending.
Not all poor people qualify for food stamps. Also there is a lot of people who do qualify but don't get food stamps because it is either too difficult for them to sign up, or because they might not even be aware of the programs. Ever dealt with a government office, to do almost anything? It can be a pain at times, and we are talking about people without access to the internet so they have a lot more difficult time getting information as well.

Charities might have restrictions as well, and often will not provide very much food for people. I know one church around me that provides food to people who do it, but they only provide a few simple things, that might last you half a week and that is all they give out to a person for an entire month. You can't survive off that.


This conversation is over
Of course it is over, you never had any interest in learning the truth. You only want to hear from people who agree with you so you can pretend poor people don't really exist.

Neither the article nor I said there were no poor people in or out of the US, or that they shouldn't be taken care of in some form or fashion.
The problem I got is with you trying to dehumanize poor people and saying they are all moochers. That isn't an appeal to pity, because I am not asking you to feel sorry for them. I am telling you outright that you are factually incorrect. They are not all moochers.
 

Ensoniq

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#15
The problem I got is with you trying to dehumanize poor people and saying they are all moochers. That isn't an appeal to pity, because I am not asking you to feel sorry for them. I am telling you outright that you are factually incorrect. They are not all moochers.
I didn't say all poor people were moochers. You asserted that and ran with it as a purposeful distraction in my opinion. Saying the moochers are taking over because 45% pay no taxes is an editorial on the growth of mooching. It doesn't mean there are no poor people in the baseline,

There are poor people and I believe in a safety net for those that can't help themselves. This is what charity is for. I give to charity specifically for this reason

Saying your argument is fallacious doesn't mean you're trying to convince me, we're on a forum and youre trying to convince others reading this.

Even in this post you've built a straw man. Youre telling me I'm factually incorrect about something I never said.
 

Scorpio

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#16
JMO, Alric raises some important points on this,

Yep, the % is crazy bad, and yep there are those that game the system. We have all seen and interacted with them.

Yet, with what our .gov and corps have done to decimate jobs and the middle class, also plays into this. A vast number of persons not on the dole, are making 10-11 bucks an hour. My goodness that is nothing nowadays. How can they even feed the corps after trying to feed their family and keep their car gassed up to get to work?

Of those many are on the dole, as they end up getting their fed and state taxes returned to them as income not sufficient to justify. Then add in the health care help, etc they receive. So they too, while not at home sitting on their keister, also contribute to this problem because of the low wage they are paid.

We have some serious problems here, and it isn't just because of lazy people.
 

latemetal

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#17
The piggie people ended up with all the money, let them pay all the taxes. Let us see what happens when minimum wage hits $15 per hour...
 

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#18
That's my goal. As soon as I retire, I'm going to sign up for every freebie I can. With luck, I can keep my income below taxable and suck this country dry. I call on all my baby boomer comrades to break this bank.
 

gliddenralston

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#19
They take their cut and add little to no value

I've yet to hear a rational argument why half the people should work so the other half don't have to
That would be a futile argument based soly on which half your in.
 

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#20
The self-employed labor businesses are probably the most heavily taxed especially if they have workers, now with Obamarxcare the taxes are higher.

Trump and Romney get all types of deductions, laugh all the way to the bank with little in the way of income tax.

In this state schoolteachers are the #1 job numerically; what do those union workers, as well as the cops, etc. pay in taxes? They are overpaid to begin with so the tax is pretty insignificant in the scheme of things.

If you don't have much it is pretty meaningless to be taxed. The working poor and those on welfare of some type don't pay much because it would be counterproductive. Under $40K in real income is a survival income.

Meanwhile the unfunded liabilities will never be paid. Even if they hit the top half of the population with a tax on everything they own, the debt would not be paid.
 

edsl48

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#21
Maybe this can be taken a bit further by discussing do those teachers. cops social workers and the like pay taxes? They are paid from the largess of Government so maybe they are not really paying taxes at all and just distributing tax dollars from one fund to another.
My small business is not only heavily taxed I have to deal with assorted Federal, State and Municipal regulations that seem to be never ending pushed by the same bureaucrats that push for more welfare type of payments. They assume because you are in business you must be rich and therefore should share the fruits of your hard work with them. They talk about the death of the middle class yet, to them, they don't realize that the smaller businesses had a lot to do with middle class formation. To them the middle class is a nice warm Government job while the rest of us self employed bust our you know whats to pay for their way.
 

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#22
It must be snowing in hell right now! In this thread I agree with Alric. The middle class is dead, they are now the working poor and don't make enough to pay taxes...
 

edsl48

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#23
Speaking of lazy...if some of the FSA types were not so lazy as to not utilize the free birth control offered to them maybe then their plight might not be as bad as portrayed. However, being the political class rewards them with more and more welfare when they have more children what can you expect them to do?
 

Krag

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#25
The disability racket has been growing by leaps and bounds. I know a number of people who are getting lots of disability benefits, some need it, some don't.
 

earplugs

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#26
It's called tax deductions. You can easily get them doing your common everyday activities. One of them is having children. It's natural to have children, and the gubmint allows you to deduct them, their daycare, etc. Another one is a home business tax deduction. It's really easy to do and cheap to start up. I've seen people spend 150 bux for start up and deduct 10k miles, which in terms of IRS equates to about 56 cents/mile, or in this case $5600. No rent, no other overhead, no brick and mortar stuff. A home business will also allow you to deduct business meals and other every day business items, such as printer, printer ink, paper, business cards, etc. And contrary to what people think, a home business doesn't have to be that difficult to run. Anywhere there's a group of people and you hand out your business card or sample is a business related event.
 

edsl48

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#27
The FSA gets free daycare along with free bus transportation in my neck of the woods. They also get free school prepared lunches and breakfasts without any reduction in their food stamp budgets. Interestingly too is that the women in many of these relationships don;t work. I get a kick out of hearing them say that they are "an old fashioned stay at home mom" while other women struggle to work, pay for child care which is very expensive, pay for their health care one way or another. Yes these working parents might be the new working poor but I assure you they do not have the lifestyle of the FSA where they somehow know just how to make only enough to prevent any reduction in benefits and a maximum earned income credit.
 

Fatboy

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#28
To be the devils advocate....

My Dad would say that "figures can lie and liers can figure".

How many of that 45% are between newborn and 15 or 16 years of age and simply don't work?

I'm not a math wizard by any means but if the average age at death is 76-81 and all the ages were spread equal throughout, then using simple math the those under 16 would be like 20%.

BUT... Even if we subtract that 20% from the 45% that still leaves 1 in 4 not contributing!
 

Fatboy

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#29
They also get free school prepared lunches and breakfasts without any reduction in their food stamp budgets.
Here the food bank sends identified kids home with a backpack every day with something for dinner too. On the weekends and holiday breaks, they get sent with enough to last through Monday morning. The Food Bank does a stand up job of helping those that really need it.

Damn, I starting to sound like Alric. :)
 

ArkWv

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#30
You're being reprogrammed, kind of like a room full of menstruating women that all live together. Eventually they will have their womanly things happen at the same time.
:sick 2:
 

Usury

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#31
JMO, Alric raises some important points on this,

Yep, the % is crazy bad, and yep there are those that game the system. We have all seen and interacted with them.

Yet, with what our .gov and corps have done to decimate jobs and the middle class, also plays into this. A vast number of persons not on the dole, are making 10-11 bucks an hour. My goodness that is nothing nowadays. How can they even feed the corps after trying to feed their family and keep their car gassed up to get to work?

Of those many are on the dole, as they end up getting their fed and state taxes returned to them as income not sufficient to justify. Then add in the health care help, etc they receive. So they too, while not at home sitting on their keister, also contribute to this problem because of the low wage they are paid.

We have some serious problems here, and it isn't just because of lazy people.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call BULLSHIT here. I regularly see returns of individuals that earn $15+/hour and they are not only paying ZERO taxes but getting HUGE EIC "refunds" from the IRS. That is why the chart shows they paying a NEGATIVE tax rate.
 

Usury

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#32
There are people starving to death in the US.
I call DOUBLE Bullshit on this. Having been in dire straights in my life and experience all levels of society, I can honestly say that nobody in this country is starving--unless they either CHOOSE to (i.e., buy drugs or something else in lieu of food) OR they are mentally incompetent to take care of themselves.
 

Usury

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#33
To be the devils advocate....

My Dad would say that "figures can lie and liers can figure".

How many of that 45% are between newborn and 15 or 16 years of age and simply don't work?

I'm not a math wizard by any means but if the average age at death is 76-81 and all the ages were spread equal throughout, then using simple math the those under 16 would be like 20%.

BUT... Even if we subtract that 20% from the 45% that still leaves 1 in 4 not contributing!
If you read the article pretty closely, it's broken down by households. So your theory is not only wrong, but probably this problem is much worse if measured in pure population (i.e., only 1 in 4 or 5 or more individuals are paying taxes).
 

Usury

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#34
I'd like to clarify my position here. From my perspective, the real problem is not so much that these families are not paying taxes. The problem is more that I feel the others are paying TOO MUCH, yet simultaneously vilified as if they are not paying "their fair share".
 

Scorpio

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#35
maybe it would be good if you reread what I wrote then tell me which is BS to it,

as I am not following your logic. You state you see their returns and they get credits. That is what I said. So you only confirmed it.

Even if they get a check for $5K, and they are making 22-25K, that makes a total of $30k or so - the appropriate taxes such as SS and Med, etc. So let's say that is somewhere around a couple of grand a month. In order to get these HUGE checks you say they do, which they do, there is a family involved and no other income. Which then means you have rent somewhere around 750 to a grand, food, car, phone, insur, etc. Doesn't leave a lot left over for other.

That still is jack squat to live on in todays society.
 

Fatboy

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#36
If you read the article pretty closely, it's broken down by households. So your theory is not only wrong, but probably this problem is much worse if measured in pure population (i.e., only 1 in 4 or 5 or more individuals are paying taxes).
Yep, you are correct. Both Scorp and Market Watch got me with the "click bait" titles :) and I read right though the part in the second paragraph where it said "An estimated 45.3% of American HOUSEHOLDS.... ". Sorry about that.
 

Usury

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#37
maybe it would be good if you reread what I wrote then tell me which is BS to it,

as I am not following your logic. You state you see their returns and they get credits. That is what I said. So you only confirmed it.

Even if they get a check for $5K, and they are making 22-25K, that makes a total of $30k or so - the appropriate taxes such as SS and Med, etc. So let's say that is somewhere around a couple of grand a month. In order to get these HUGE checks you say they do, which they do, there is a family involved and no other income. Which then means you have rent somewhere around 750 to a grand, food, car, phone, insur, etc. Doesn't leave a lot left over for other.

That still is jack squat to live on in todays society.
It can be done....especially when you add in all the other freebies they are likely to get.

Funny thing is I constantly see these "low income" families driving plush new cars and using the latest iPhone, ad nauseum. I'm sorry but I can't compute barely surviving with these things.
 

Ensoniq

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#38
Last edited:

Usury

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#39
Oh and specifically my BS comment was about those making $10/hr or whatever not being on the dole. With these tax refunds resulting in negative tax rates, they are gettingn welfare--even if they are not on other benefit programs. Heck for that matter, if they are paying no taxes, I consider that being on the dole.
 

Usury

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#40