• Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
  • There are no markets
  • "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

Active shooter in Las Vegas - "hundreds of shots fired"

Cigarlover

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
3,373
Likes
5,260
Your an unarmed security guard walking down the hall and all of a sudden 200 rounds come blasting through a door at you and somehow you only get shot in the leg. The worst massacre in a recent memory happens right before your eyes in the next 15 minutes.
You might be confused or in shock for awhile.

I don't know when police questioned him but depending on how quickly after the event he may have been confused. I still think the police should have spent more time getting that detail correct but the fact that they have a witness who changed his story really isn't on them.
I rushed to judgement on this last night and maybe I shouldn't have..
Same with the hotel check in date. Although I feel like something is off with that story we also have to imagine that LEo isnt sitting there on the internet trying to find out some details on the case. Specifically the room service charges on the 27th. Do they even know about that? They are probably going through hundreds of tapes of the hotel video, parking garages and any opther videos they can find around the city that has him in it in any way shape or form.. They may get around to it but probably arent as concerned about his room service charges as we are.

We dont know what info the hotel has given him either. If the hotel said he checked in on the 28th then thats what they went with..Seems strange that someone got that wrong but we dont know the details behind it.
 

917601

Mother Lode Found
Mother Lode
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
11,298
Likes
9,295
http://www.ballistics101.com/223_remington.php

There's the ballistics chart just for remington. Looks like rounds range from 2500 -4000 FPS.
I'm still on my 1st cup of coffee but he was talking about a difference of less than 2/10ths of a second being proof of a 2nd shooter.
1st, he didn't give us an audio of the 2 shooters he was comparing. Were they both 223 or was 1 a 308 or?????

2nd, what grain bullet was he using and comparing. Its to early for me to do the math but clearly the difference of 2 tenths of a second is obtainable with a different grain bullet or different load. Since he doesn't have that info he created a good click bait video that sure sounds good to the unknowing public.
An article I read said one of the guns recovered was an AR10......308. First time I saw that mentioned, that little tid bit confirms what I hear from the recordings, both .223 and .30 signatures. That also means a bump fire stock would work on a .308 AR. Which may explain the differences in bursts. Still waiting on a full detailed list of weapons used.
 
Last edited:

Thecrensh

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
4,132
Likes
4,500
Acoustic analysis from Mike Adams


SC
This is a very interesting video; a couple of problems with his possible alternate firing sites. Most of the casualties were just to the right of the stage, near the front. The dirt mound wouldn't be able to have a line of fire to those people. Not sure the convenience store would be high enough to get that area either...the apartment complex might need a look by the FBI.
 

Bigfoot

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
2,740
Likes
2,731
But in the photos, there is a stack of at least 10 magazines which appear to be 100 round surefire mags, which would account for any volleys of 100 rounds or less.
Aurumag, thanks. I stand corrected on that. I went back and looked at the photos, it does look like there are 100 round mags.
 

Thecrensh

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Messages
4,132
Likes
4,500
This is a very interesting video; a couple of problems with his possible alternate firing sites. Most of the casualties were just to the right of the stage, near the front. The dirt mound wouldn't be able to have a line of fire to those people. Not sure the convenience store would be high enough to get that area either...the apartment complex might need a look by the FBI.
There is an apartment complex called "The Oasis" about 225 yards SSE of the venue that could have been used as well...and falls withing the range of audio analysis from the video. The buildings are 2 stories tall and have clear line of sight to the entire venue.
 

Bigfoot

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 3, 2010
Messages
2,740
Likes
2,731
My take was pavement hits ( which will ricochet) and keep in mind these are low quality recordings ( cell phones) but still nothing making 100 percent sense as most all bursts seem to be all different, only two repeatable out of 12-13 bursts, some sounding like a .30, some like a .223 and some " snapping", some signatures " drifting", some " smacking"...etc...then other recordings different but keep in mind when in front of muzzle it is loud, oblique angles much different and with buildings, channeled echoes ....who knows? I have had the same smacking sounds when shooting my soft steel plates....the bullets literally splatter...which is why I say wait until they are able to find splatter remains ( the copper jackets are always still in a big piece, the lead vaporizes) and do the metallurgical analysis to tie it to the ammo type fired...all that takes a lot of time.
Thanks for your input, that makes sense.

I would like to ask you though, in the same video clip at 2:15, we hear what sounds like bullets hitting the pavement but nearly no report is heard. What do you make of that?


Also, what is your take on the distance / volume discrepancies in the following video between 0:46 and 1:07?

 

917601

Mother Lode Found
Mother Lode
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
11,298
Likes
9,295
Finally found an article that may answer questions. I thought of not posting it, but it answers some of my thoughts about having dozens of high end firearms in the hotel room.....and since the FBI has long turned
Into a bunch of political, key stone cops....no surprises here....it is a sad day when I am inclined to trust more in ISIS statements than FBI statements. That said, I am sure the FBI final report will be a real piece of work.

"
October 7, 2017
Was Vegas an FBI sting gone bad?

By Cliff Kincaid

Why is there no motive for the Vegas massacre? Why did Stephen Paddock have a secret life?

It is terrible to contemplate, but the possibility that Stephen Paddock was an undercover federal operative or informant cannot be ruled out. He may have been set up or used by ISIS and/or a federal agency in a scheme that backfired.

The feds may have thought they were going to catch ISIS in the act of preparing a major terrorist attack. ISIS terrorists may have thought Paddock was one of them, but realized at the last minute it was a set-up. They claimed him as one of their own anyway.

Perhaps he did convert to Islam after trying to get local Jihadists to buy his weapons. Or perhaps they thought he did, and he used his "conversion" to convince them he was one of them.

In short, Paddock may have approached potential terrorists with offers of weapons and bomb-making material. Or they may have approached him.

Those of us who have been around Washington D.C. for a while know that the FBI has been rocked by scandals of all kinds and a series of failures, ranging from Ruby Ridge to Waco to 9/11. Because these scandals involve death, stonewalling, and cover-up, the agencies cannot be trusted to investigate themselves.

For someone with even elementary knowledge of government incompetence and corruption, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to consider the possibility that Paddock was a government informant or operative in a scheme that backfired.

And if so, we can anticipate there will be obligatory denials.

Reports indicate that the materials found in Paddock's car included 1,600 rounds of ammunition, fertilizer that could be used to make explosives, and 50 pounds of the explosive substance Tannerite. He had 23 weapons in the hotel room and had reportedly bought 33 guns in the past year. This guy was the perfect operative to be used in undercover stings. He had everything they needed to carry out major terrorist acts.

Paddock was a one stop shop for terrorists. He had the guns and the bombs. He was a one-man Weather Underground.

WND reporter Leo Hohmann reports that Paddock "not only worked directly for the [federal] government for nearly a decade but then worked another year-and-a-half for federal weapons contractor Lockheed Martin." What this means is that he would have been known to the feds and could have been recruited by them. He could have been told he could atone for his bank-robbing father by going undercover.

Perhaps he was a "lone wolf" who somehow "snapped." But his arsenal, designed for a small terrorist army, and his "secret life" have led to speculation Paddock was part of a gun-running and bomb-making operation similar to the federal Fast and Furious scandal in the Obama Administration. In this case, however, the targets of the possible scheme were Islamists, not Mexican drug traffickers.

The Fast and Furious scandal involved the U.S. sending weapons to Mexico that were ultimately used by drug cartels to murder a federal border agent, Brian Terry. What if Paddock was part of another such operation, launched under former President Obama, to entrap alleged terrorists? President Trump's new FBI director, Christopher Wray, has only been on the job for about two months, and may not have been able to review or stop it.

If the FBI had been able to stop the massacre, breaking into the hotel room at the last moment before the carnage, the Bureau would have looked like heroes in the eyes of the public. It would have managed to achieve some good publicity after the debacles involving Director James Comey, the Hillary email scandal, and Russia-gate.

But if so, something went dramatically wrong. Either way, if he was an operative or not, he was able to assemble a small arsenal of weapons in a hotel room. Didn't anybody notice? Or was he being protected by authorities who thought they were going to nab members of a terrorist cell?

All the facts are not in, but we know that one analysis of FBI undercover "sting" operations found they are now used in two of every three prosecutions involving people suspected of supporting ISIS, the Islamic State. The New York Times said, "...agents have helped people suspected of being extremists acquire weapons, scope out bombing targets and find the best routes to Syria to join the Islamic State, records show."

You can see how dangerous this can be. These operations involve federal agents actually participating in the planning of terrorist acts and acquiring weapons.

What if Paddock, under government orders, set up his machine gun nest in the Mandalay Bay, hoping to entice some ISIS terrorists into the room and "catch them in the act." Perhaps he thought the feds would burst in at any moment to stop it. Or perhaps he had indeed converted to the Islamist cause. In any case, in assembling this arsenal, he could easily have worked with others to make it all happen. Who were those others? That's the big question.

One theory, therefore, is that the FBI blew it. They didn't get there in time.

His recruitment by the FBI or another federal agency would have been a closely-guarded secret. His family and girlfriend would not have known about it. They would claim ignorance of his "secret life."

These are difficult matters to consider. Perhaps that is why the White House is pandering to the "gun control" crowd with talk of banning so-called "bump stocks" for semi-automatics. This is how Washington avoids the topic of corruption in federal agencies. This will become a "bipartisan" feel-good moment.

We don't have all of the pieces of the puzzle and, if something like these scenarios did happen, there will be great resistance to knowing and understanding the facts. But the involvement of the FBI and other federal agencies in the ongoing "investigation" means that they will take command and control and be in a position to engineer a cover-up regarding any ties Paddock may have had with them. This is how the Swamp works.

They will leave the puzzle in scattered pieces, to be assembled by courageous journalists and political leaders independent of the Swamp. That is, if there are any left.

© Cliff Kincaid


The views expressed by RenewAmerica columnists are their own and do not necessarily reflect the position of RenewAmerica or its affiliates.
(See RenewAmerica's publishing standards.)

Cliff Kincaid
Cliff Kincaid is a veteran journalist and media critic.
Subscribe

Receive future articles by Cliff Kincaid: Click here
More by this author
October 9, 2017
Destroying whitey in Obama's New World Order


October 7, 2017
Was Vegas an FBI sting gone bad?


September 28, 2017
Is the headquarters of the Deep State in Moscow?


September 25, 2017
America's Survival, Inc. releases video on why "progressives" want "psychedelic medicine"


September 21, 2017
Let's be honest: Trump's UN speech was a disaster


September 18, 2017
Exposing the traitors in the Deep State


September 14, 2017
Conservatives have to become the resistance


August 10, 2017
Regime change in North Korea or a communist apocalypse?


August 3, 2017
The real Russia-gate scandal


July 1, 2017
Roku is the answer to media bias


More articles
 
Last edited:

917601

Mother Lode Found
Mother Lode
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
11,298
Likes
9,295
Thanks for your input, that makes sense.

I would like to ask you though, in the same video clip at 2:15, we hear what sounds like bullets hitting the pavement but nearly no report is heard. What do you make of that?


Also, what is your take on the distance / volume discrepancies in the following video between 0:46 and 1:07?

Without maps and precise locations, impossible. The lower taxi drivers audio very good, but he is between buildings, channeled, the only thought I take from that is it .308, not .223. Have you ever been directly next to some one shooting? ( muzzle very close, brass ejects onto you, discharge blows your ear to pieces, but you can stand in the same position comfortably just by putting a finger in that ear...gun shots are very misleading in city's, streets, rock creek beds ( I know that one in person) etc...
Edit: had a shooter in a deep rock creek, I swore he was getting closer with each shot, found out he was moving away, not towards. As he was moving away, he was moving closer to a rock cliff in front of him, the sound bounced back into the creek channel and sounded as if he was moving closer, but he was in fact moving away in the creek bed. The reason I remember so well, I was 100 percent sure he was moving closer. I looked like a total absolute fool. Strange stuff.
 
Last edited:

Cigarlover

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
3,373
Likes
5,260
There is certainly more to this story. The CEO selling off his shares in Sept and Soros shorting 1.5 million or so in the last quarter tells me something was known by someone who leaked info to some people.
Beyond that it's all a WAG.

I wouldn't mind hearing more about the maintenance guy that stayed up there with the security guy. Although not unusual to have maintenace on hand 24/7 to fix some problems that arise I would be interested in the interview he did. I think he came onto the floor after the guard was shot so he probably didn't know the exact timeline of when the shooting started outside either. Surely he heard the 200 rounds being fired into the hallway though. Both of them must have also heard the final 1 round pop when the shooter offed himself.
 

TRYNEIN

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
2,557
Likes
7,492
Location
third cove on the right
Anyone else see this???

---------------------


Alleged Key Witness In Las Vegas Massacre Kills Himself And Daughter After FBI Raid

October 8, 2017




Credit: impiousdigest.com



According to the website Neon Nettle, a key witness in the tragic Las Vegas mass shooting has killed himself and his disabled daughter following a raid by the FBI at his home.

The man's name is John Beilman and he was allegedly wanted for questioning in connection with a device discovered in Stephen Paddock's Mandalay Bay hotel room.

According to sources close to the investigation, federal agents obtained a search warrant and raided Beilman's Fairport home the day before he killed his daughter and himself with a 12-gauge shotgun.

Nicole Beilman, John Beilman's 27-year old daughter, had a rare neurological disorder called Rett Syndrome. She depended on her parents for personal care.

According to a report on The Impious Digest, authorities discovered a suspicious cell phone charger in the Vegas shooter's hotel room at the Mandalay Bay. The charger was reported to have no accompanying phone, but technology experts identified that this type of charger is used to power a CP502520 3.0V 600mAh Li-MnO2 non-rechargeable thin cell battery, which is allegedly often times used in U.S. special forces and other covert government communication devices.

This unique lithium battery is produced by a New York based company, Ultralife Corporation, which specializes in military-grade communication systems for the Pentagon. Coincidentally, its lead development engineer was reported to be John Beilman.

On his LinkedIn profile, Beilman described himself as a "product design and manufacturing professional." He was employed at Ultralife Corporation between 2007-2012 where he reportedly worked on various top secret U.S. military projects. After he left the corporation, he became an engineer at the General Motors Research Facility in Rochester, New York.


https://www.newsmediawatchdog.com/s...cre-Kills-Himself-And-Daughter-After-FBI-Raid



Read more below -
ABC WHAM 13: Fairport father killed daughter with disabilities, turned gun on himself

USA Today: John Beilman's Fairport home searched by FBI the day before murder-suicide

AZ Central: John Beilman's Fairport home searched by FBI the day before murder-suicide

Daily Messenger: FBI searched Fairport home before murder-suicide

WHEC News 10: FBI searched Fairport home before murder-suicide

Rochester First: FBI was at Beilman's home the day before murder-suicide

Neon Nettle: Key Witness in Las Vegas Shooting Kills Self and Daughter Following FBI Raid

The New York News Day: Key Witness in Las Vegas Shooting Kills Self and Daughter Following FBI Raid

The Impious Digest: Las Vegas Massacre Witness Kills Self And Daughter After FBI Raid
 

Krag

Planet earth
Platinum Bling
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
4,349
Likes
3,369
There are probably lots of people out there who did cash deals with Paddock and are afraid of the withering scrutiny and scorn they will be subject to.

This from Gary North on how to follow the evidence:

How to Write a Skeptic's Book on the Las Vegas Shootings
Gary North - October 10, 2017

Where should you start first? With the reporter's questions: what, where, when, who, why, and how?

A historian who understands the correct use of evidence would begin with such things as online videos and newspaper accounts. This would be to begin to get a sense of the time frame, the location, and what happened. But he would not stop with this.

A serious historian who had time and money to spend would conduct something comparable to a police investigation.

The first thing I would look at would be this: the reports of the coroner. These are verifiable public documents that could be used in a court of law.

Why would I start here? Because this is as close as I will come to publicly verifiable evidence.

This is from Newsweek.



When a concertgoer died in or on the way to a Las Vegas hospital, a doctor or nurse would immediately call the Clark County coroner’s office to report the death, John Coldsmith, a chief nursing officer at the hospital group that includes Spring Valley, tells Newsweek. After the hospital called to report a death, the coroner’s office sent a van to collect the body, he says. . . .
Once the coroner’s office has identified a body, it contacts the family and asks if there is a preferred funeral home in Las Vegas, Michael Toth, the mortuary manager at Palm Northwest Mortuary in Las Vegas, tells Newsweek. Palm Mortuary has multiple locations and the families of several shooting victims have called to ask the funeral home to handle their loved ones’ remains, with some of those to be flown home, Toth says.

“If they’re not local, then [the family] makes an appointment with a funeral home of their choice back home in Canada, in Alaska, in Pennsylvania,” Toth says, naming some of the locations where the shooting victims lived. That funeral home then transmits the personal information for the Nevada death certificate—including the deceased’s full name, Social Security number and mother’s maiden name—to the Las Vegas funeral home. . . .

After the coroner’s office reviews the death certificate, it can issue a “burial transit permit,” which gives the Las Vegas funeral home permission to book a flight home for the body. “We then work with the receiving funeral home or mortuary, tell them we have a permit, and find out what airport they want us to fly to,” Toth says, adding that out-of-state families can decide whether to select a coffin in Las Vegas or back home. The body is embalmed before the flight and usually flies home in a hospital gown or robe.

I have zero doubt that 58 people died in the shootings. But if the number of victims were in doubt, and if this was significant for the official narrative, I would follow through: which mortuaries received the bodies, and where the funerals took place. If there were still any question, I would find out if an insurance company paid a death claim for anyone who might not have died. Insurance companies are not going to pay death claims for people who are still alive. There is financial incentive for the insurance companies to make certain that for every claim, there is a coroner's statement.

This is easy to check. Any journalist who thinks there is something fishy about the deaths can follow through. This is so easy to expose as fake that the alleged conspirators would not risk it. There are too many ways to get published or get posted on half a dozen rival hosting sites to YouTube. For a list, go here.

Conspiracy theorists are operating in a mental world based on publishing in 1990. That world is long gone.

What would I do next? Triage.

TRIAGE FOR FACTS

A revisionist historian begins with the facts that all historians, or all police investigators, or all coroners involved, agree on. Why? If you don't start with verifiable facts, you will be tempted to go down rabbit trails. Here is the rule: Don't go down rabbit trails until you have identified the agreed-upon facts.

Then you start looking for discrepancies. There will always be discrepancies. In order to judge the relevance of the discrepancies, you have to have an initial framework of verifiable facts. You have to judge the discrepancies against the verifiable facts.

The most important discrepancies to research are those which could possibly have happened. You are looking for possibilities that do not correspond with the overall official narrative.

This is a work of triage. Triage is the technique first used by field hospitals in World War I to decide who should be operated on by the physicians. If somebody was brought in who was not going to survive, no matter what was done, that person was shuttled aside. If somebody was brought in who was probably going to recover, with or without treatment, that person was shuttled aside. The physicians spent their time on the people who would die without treatment, but who might survive if they received treatment. This was the sensible way to allocate very scarce resources in a field hospital.

Triage is also a sensible way to allocate resources in historical research. First, you identify the obvious survivors: facts that are incontrovertible. You set these aside. Second, you identify the reported facts that could not possibly have happened. You set these aside unless these are an integral part of the official narrative. These two steps eliminate those rabbit trails that will waste your time.

Once you have the two ends of the narrative sealed off, you spend your time investigating whatever facts are in between. You have narrowed down the discrepancies to research. You may run down a lot of rabbit trails, but these are not visibly dead ends before you begin. This is where your highest payoff is going to be.

TIMELINE

Begin with the official timeline. In the case of Las Vegas, it is here. You have to know the order of events. Always come back to the timeline. Does it change? Why? Are there discrepancies? Why? The timeline is always your marker.

Create a website that ties to the timeline. Make it as detailed as you can. Cite sources. Provide links. Make copies of every link. It may get pulled. Use PRINT. Print to a program that makes a PDF. Post this link as well as the original URL. The website will be your legacy.

Download copies of every YouTube video. These get pulled. You can later upload pulled videos to a YouTube competitor. To learn how to download a YouTube video, go here.

The timeline is the key. It provides coherence to your narrative. Always return to the timeline.

The book provides a coherent narrative. You may have to revise it. Put a date on each revision. Let people see it evolve. Keep the old PDF's posted, so people can see how it evolved. This will reduce suspicion. Explain why you edit each new edition.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slat...ng_timeline_means_the_security_guard_did.html
 
Last edited:

hoarder

Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Platinum Bling
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
10,278
Likes
9,408
Location
Montana
According to the website Neon Nettle, a key witness in the tragic Las Vegas mass shooting has killed himself and his disabled daughter following a raid by the FBI at his home.
Considering all the false leads being pimped all over the net, is there a possibly that this is fake news?


Neon Nettle??
 

917601

Mother Lode Found
Mother Lode
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
11,298
Likes
9,295
Latest timeline:

9:59 p.m.: Hotel security guard is shot by Paddock on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino.

10:05 p.m.: First shots fired on music festival. This was seen on closed-circuit television from the concert venue.

10:12 p.m.: First two officers arrive on the 31st floor and announce that the gunfire is coming from directly above them.

10:15 p.m.: The last shots are fired by Paddock.

10:17 p.m.: The first two officers arrive on the 32nd floor.

10:18 p.m.: Security officer tells police he was shot and gives location of the gunman’s room.

10:26-10:30 p.m.: Eight additional officers arrive on the 32nd floor and begin to move down the hallway, clearing every room and looking for any injured people. They no longer hear gunfire.

10:55 p.m.: Eight officers arrive in the stairwell at the opposite end of the hallway nearest to Paddock’s room.

11:20 p.m.: Officers enter the room. They see Paddock on the ground and a second door that could not be accessed from their position.

11:27 p.m.: A second breach is set off, allowing officers to enter the second room. Officers quickly realize there is no one else in the rooms and announce over the radio that the suspect is down.
 

Cigarlover

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
3,373
Likes
5,260
Latest timeline:

9:59 p.m.: Hotel security guard is shot by Paddock on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino.

10:05 p.m.: First shots fired on music festival. This was seen on closed-circuit television from the concert venue.

10:12 p.m.: First two officers arrive on the 31st floor and announce that the gunfire is coming from directly above them.

10:15 p.m.: The last shots are fired by Paddock.

10:17 p.m.: The first two officers arrive on the 32nd floor.

10:18 p.m.: Security officer tells police he was shot and gives location of the gunman’s room.

10:26-10:30 p.m.: Eight additional officers arrive on the 32nd floor and begin to move down the hallway, clearing every room and looking for any injured people. They no longer hear gunfire.

10:55 p.m.: Eight officers arrive in the stairwell at the opposite end of the hallway nearest to Paddock’s room.

11:20 p.m.: Officers enter the room. They see Paddock on the ground and a second door that could not be accessed from their position.

11:27 p.m.: A second breach is set off, allowing officers to enter the second room. Officers quickly realize there is no one else in the rooms and announce over the radio that the suspect is down.
Good start. Whats missing from this timeline though?
The maintenance man who according to the latest article I read, stayed with the guard while this was all going on..
 

SilverCity

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
3,012
Likes
2,528
Location
New Babylon
Anonymous: Paddock was FBI agent selling arms to ISIS and working an undercover sting. That's why all the cameras were in place. ISIS found out an killed him then carried out the shooting spree. ISIS escaped and is at large.


SC
 
Last edited:

Goldhedge

Moderator
Site Mgr
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
31,101
Likes
38,777
Location
Planet Earth
http://www.ballistics101.com/223_remington.php

There's the ballistics chart just for remington. Looks like rounds range from 2500 -4000 FPS.
I'm still on my 1st cup of coffee but he was talking about a difference of less than 2/10ths of a second being proof of a 2nd shooter.
1st, he didn't give us an audio of the 2 shooters he was comparing. Were they both 223 or was 1 a 308 or?????

2nd, what grain bullet was he using and comparing. Its to early for me to do the math but clearly the difference of 2 tenths of a second is obtainable with a different grain bullet or different load. Since he doesn't have that info he created a good click bait video that sure sounds good to the unknowing public.
He wouldn't know what grain bullet was used. All the data would be in the hands of the FBI and the Sheriff (if they let him gather it?)

It is a compelling video. Worth watching...twice!
 

917601

Mother Lode Found
Mother Lode
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
11,298
Likes
9,295
Pretty much confirms my thoughts on a .30, unlikely 30.06 M2 API, but .308 NATO API, ( 7.62x51), comes in Incendiary ( blue tip- Rare), API ( silver tip- hard to find), and APIT ( red and silver tip with tracer) or a Raufaus 308 round. To my knowledge, no API or AP is made in 5.56 as it is wayto underpowered. My bets on silver tip as I read somewhere authorities were draining the tank as it appeared one bullet may have penetrated.

"Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock fired special "incendiary" bullets at a 43,000-barrel fuel tank in what investigators believe was an attempt to cause an explosion, two law enforcement sources told CNN. Those types of rounds, meant to ignite what they hit, were found inside Paddock's room at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino and near the fuel tank a short distance away on the grounds of McCarran International Airport, the sources said. Authorities have previously disclosed that Paddock fired at the tank and struck it with two rifle rounds, when he opened fire on the crowd below from his 32nd..."

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/10/us/las-vegas-shooter-incendiary-rounds/index.html
 
Last edited:

Aurumag

Dimly lit. Highly reflective
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
7,639
Likes
7,972
Location
State of Jefferson
... the possibility that Stephen Paddock was an undercover federal operative or informant cannot be ruled out. ..

For someone with even elementary knowledge of government incompetence and corruption, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to consider the possibility that Paddock was a government informant or operative in a scheme that backfired.

And if so, we can anticipate there will be obligatory denials.

...
Thus far, this is the most likely "motive," IMO.
 

Aurumag

Dimly lit. Highly reflective
Midas Member
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
7,639
Likes
7,972
Location
State of Jefferson
...

"Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock fired special "incendiary" bullets at a 43,000-barrel fuel tank in what investigators believe was an attempt to cause an explosion...
If the fuel tank explosion was critical to the plan, then why not a super-accurate bolt-gun in .50 BMG?

Why not an RPG, or even a really expensive surface to air missile?

The guy could afford it, yes? Wasn't it a rich white man's suicide fantasy kill-fest?

IMO, this is exemplary of undercover FBI assistance; providing the wrong tools when they are most needed to effect the most critical component of an escape plan.

Of course, assassinating the shooter certainly put an end to the op.
 
Last edited:

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,858
Likes
4,314
Location
mid-usa
....side note...i have fired a lot of types of bullets at ....propane tanks...diesel tanks...gas tanks.......Aps...tracers...etc never got one to explode yet.....had to put a open flame item next to the tanks before i shot them to get any reaction......i am sure it can happen but it sure isnt like the movies.....never used a specific incendiary bullet though
 

Joe King

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
5,944
Likes
5,931
Location
Instant Gratification Land
Vid from right in front of the hotel. People are talking about seeing glass falling from the hotel. There's also a single gunshot that can be heard at 3:25 and again at 3:35 with no more gunshots heard afterwards.
At 6:40 there's a group of cops seen running South on the opposite side of the street, to or from what, I have no idea.

 

Goldhedge

Moderator
Site Mgr
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 28, 2010
Messages
31,101
Likes
38,777
Location
Planet Earth
There are a lot of youtube videos that are being pulled for 'reasons'...

If anyone wants to capture the video before it gets 'pulled' use Any Video Converter

It's a free program that works very well. You merely run it and paste the video url within the app.

It saves to your HD. You can then use dropbox, or 'box.com' to save it and share a link.

That way it never disappears...!
 

searcher

Mother Lode Found
Mother Lode
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
154,559
Likes
40,861
Las Vegas massacre gunman had a NORMAL brain: Autopsy finds 'no abnormalites' that could have driven him to kill 58 innocent people
  • Joe Lombardo said Stephen Paddock investigation has not revealed a motive
  • Clark County sheriff said exam showed 'no abnormalities' with Paddock's brain
  • Meanwhile girlfriend Marilou Danley had 'no concerns' over his mental health
  • Lombardo added that 'we may never know' why he killed 58 innocent people


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4969140/Las-Vegas-gunman-no-abnormalites-brain.html#ixzz4vD6gv8rq
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 

searcher

Mother Lode Found
Mother Lode
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
154,559
Likes
40,861
Only the beginning..............

Republican Turncoats Introduce Anti-Gun Law!
Military Arms Channel


Published on Oct 11, 2017
GUN LAW LINK: https://curbelo.house.gov/uploadedfil...

Florida Republican Carlos Curbelo along with 9 other turncoat Republicans introduce the first formal anti-gun law after the tragedy in Las Vegas. It's also backed by 10 Democrats. GET IN THE FIGHT NOW. THIS IS FAR MORE SERIOUS THAN YOU MAY THINK. PLEASE WATCH AND SHARE.
 

ErrosionOfAccord

#1 Global Warmer
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
3,052
Likes
3,082
Location
Coal Country
Another, perhaps completely ignorant thought on bump stocks and bi-pods. My understanding is that the user must put forward pressure on the forestock in order to create the reciprocal motion required to simulate automatic fire. This is a tiresome endeavor. Is it possible that the shooter laid a prone position with the bipod out of the window and pulled back against the bipod in order to achieve the forward pull? This would make the activation of the bumpstock steadier while alleviating the push pull fatigue one would experience. Also explains why someone would arrange an AR in a seemingly oxymoronic bumpstock/bipod fashion.
 

the_shootist

Midas Member
Midas Member
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
20,311
Likes
21,716
Another, perhaps completely ignorant thought on bump stocks and bi-pods. My understanding is that the user must put forward pressure on the forestock in order to create the reciprocal motion required to simulate automatic fire. This is a tiresome endeavor. Is it possible that the shooter laid a prone position with the bipod out of the window and pulled back against the bipod in order to achieve the forward pull? This would make the activation of the bumpstock steadier while alleviating the push pull fatigue one would experience. Also explains why someone would arrange an AR in a seemingly oxymoronic bumpstock/bipod fashion.
No one would use a bump stock equipped rifle if they had FA weapons with them. The guy wants to kill as many people as he can so he chooses using an AR with a bump stock? According to everything we've been told (none of which is validated) he did in fact have FA weapons with him. That to me eliminates the bump stock case. The bump stocks were originally included in the scam here in order expose their existence to the masses of sheeple for the purpose of bastardizing and banning them.
 
Last edited:

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,858
Likes
4,314
Location
mid-usa
No offense but thats not how a bump stock works very basicly a bump stock creates a fixed fixed trigger finger location from your shoulder.....then the recoil of the frount half of the weapon against a spring in the stock bumps the front half of the weapon against your fixed trigger.....so holding the fore grip tight tends to negate the recoil action....this also makes the gun extremly inaccurate
 
Last edited:

ErrosionOfAccord

#1 Global Warmer
Gold Chaser
Sr Site Supporter
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
3,052
Likes
3,082
Location
Coal Country
None taken, never played with them so, as previously stated, ignorant.
 

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,858
Likes
4,314
Location
mid-usa
None taken, never played with them so, as previously stated, ignorant.
I added to my previous post.....these bump stocks are horriby inaccurate bullet sprayers.....i wouldnt have one if it were free.....your post is a correct way to accieve bump fire without the aftermarket stock
 

pay dirt

Gold Member
Gold Chaser
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
1,115
Likes
656
Police change timeline right before Mandalay Bay owners submit a statement that the timeline is wrong. How convenient. Someone should interview the security guard more in depth. He was the closest known person before the shooting. Two hundred shots at him and only a leg wound.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/11/mgm-resorts-disputes-las-vegas-police-timeline-shooting.html

MGM Resorts disputes Las Vegas police timeline of shooting

“This remains an ongoing investigation with a lot of moving parts. As evidenced by law enforcement briefings over the past week, many facts are still unverified and continue to change as events are under review," Debra DeShong, a spokeswoman for MGM Resorts International, said in a statement Tuesday. "We cannot be certain about the most recent timeline that has been communicated publically, and we believe what is currently being expressed may not be accurate."
 

Lt Dan

Gold Pirate
Gold Chaser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 1, 2010
Messages
3,667
Likes
5,706
Location
VA Psych Ward
Someone should interview the security guard more in depth.
That's is what I keep coming back to in my mind. I am beginning to wonder if he was a player that got caught in the cross fire but somehow survived it.
 
Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
447
Likes
690
Use your support hand to apply a light forward pressure to the rifle

http://www.slidefire.com/how-it-works
How to fire your Slide Fire stock

The Slide Fire® stock is fun, exciting and entertaining. As always, practice safe firearm procedures when using any firearm. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has approved the Slide Fire stock where firearms are legal. Our patented technology allows for an alternate shooting technique whereby safe, reliable rapid fire is possible.




1. Position Firearm
With the rifle in a safe position and proper aim on the target, pull the stock into your shoulder and grip the pistol grip as normal. Make sure you are in a stable stance in preparation for the recoil of the rifle.


2. Unlock Stock
The Lock Switch location will vary depending on model, so refer to your stock's instructions. Rotate the switch to the unlocked position to enable rapid fire. Returning the stock to the locked position will restore standard fire.


3. Position Trigger Finger
For ambidextrous models, ensure that the Finger Rest is on the opposite side of the rifle from your shooting hand. Place your trigger finger across the trigger, and seat the tip firmly on the rest.


4. Apply Forward Pressure
Use your support hand to apply a light forward pressure to the rifle. This will force the trigger into your finger causing a round to be fired.


5. Control Rapid Fire
Recoil from the discharged round will cycle the action and return the firearm back to the rear position. Maintaining a light and consistent forward pressure will continue the firing sequence.


Best Tip
Make sure you keep your forward pressure as light and consistent as possible. Applying too much force will push out the recoil needed to operate the rifle causing a stoppage.
 

917601

Mother Lode Found
Mother Lode
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
11,298
Likes
9,295
No offense but thats not how a bump stock works very basicly a bump stock creates a fixed fixed trigger finger location from your shoulder.....then the recoil of the frount half of the weapon against a spring in the stock bumps the front half of the weapon against your fixed trigger.....so holding the fore grip tight tends to negate the recoil action....this also makes the gun extremly inaccurate
Not true. A bump stock works by forcefully overriding ( bumping your finger off the trigger for a millisecond) your finger tension off the trigger, so the hammer can reset. Maintaining continued forwardpressure and trigger pressure(the key ) then allows the hammer to reset and the hammer falls again with maintained pressure. Tricky, rate , "full auto mode" depends on consistent trigger pressure . All semi actions work this way. Try it at home with your semi (not sure if it is the same with striker fired guns- eg Glocks). With bump fire, Your first trigger pull must override the trigger tension AND the stock portion that covers the trigger. If you do not maintain enough pressure on the trigger to override the recoil bump- it does not fire auto. All full autos have dis connectors and Sears to do this internally- Clockwork- not dependent on faulty trigger pressure as with bump fire....I have taken the US Army Armorers school as a " credential"....( as a DOS civilian).Edit: open bolt operated MGs are different ( Sten, Bren, etc). All current guns fire from a closed bolt. ATF considers open bolt operated firearms a no no, and to easily converted to full auto which is why modern guns are not open bolt operated.
 
Last edited:

ttazzman

Midas Member
Midas Member
Site Supporter ++
Joined
Apr 2, 2010
Messages
4,858
Likes
4,314
Location
mid-usa
Not true. A bump stock works by forcefully overriding ( bumping your finger off the trigger for a millisecond) your finger tension on the trigger, so the hammer can reset. Maintaining continued pressure ( the key ) then allows the hammer to reset and the hammer falls again with maintained pressure. Tricky, rate , "full auto mode" depends on consistent trigger pressure . All semi actions work this way. Try it at home with your semi (not sure if it is the same with striker fired guns- eg Glocks). With bump fire, Your first trigger pull must override the trigger tension AND the stock portion that covers the trigger. If you do not maintain enough pressure on the trigger to override the recoil bump- it does not fire auto. All full autos have dis connectors and Sears to do this internally- Clockwork- not dependent on faulty trigger pressure as with bump fire....I have been to the US Army Armorers school for a minor " credential".
for arguements sake...i do appreciate your creditials ,did US Army school discuss bump stocks? ......if not they all work similar to the pictorial posted before your post.....pay attention to #3......on the bump stock shown above your finger goes thru the guard and rests on the opposite side and the forarm pulls the trigger into your finger with forward forearm pressure....at NO TIME IS IT BUMPING YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER ....your finger is firmly against the opposite side and the trigger recoils back n forth into your FIXED finger position ......as i stated previously your finger is in a fixed position to your shoulder and the stock...the trigger etc does the moving ....i fully understand FA and sears etc and they have very little in common to a bump stock.

I was semi-incorrect in my post to EOA above ...as this model works as he stated and i was wrong to critique it as was corrected....the model i had used, the trigger was in frount of the rest and the first pull was back to the finger rest and the stock was spring loaded to provide the action..
 
Last edited:

90%RealMoney

Midas Member
Midas Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
4,796
Likes
4,023
Location
Left Flank, Oceana...Locked and Loaded!
Only the beginning..............

Republican Turncoats Introduce Anti-Gun Law!
Military Arms Channel


Published on Oct 11, 2017
GUN LAW LINK: https://curbelo.house.gov/uploadedfil...

Florida Republican Carlos Curbelo along with 9 other turncoat Republicans introduce the first formal anti-gun law after the tragedy in Las Vegas. It's also backed by 10 Democrats. GET IN THE FIGHT NOW. THIS IS FAR MORE SERIOUS THAN YOU MAY THINK. PLEASE WATCH AND SHARE.
Shit, a magazine that holds more than one round, could be called a rate increasing device!