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America the Beautiful 5 oz Silver Bullion Coins

shallow_explorer

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If you have a PO box, you can make the delivery address the physical address of the PO. That way UPS, FedX, DHL, etc. will deliver to PO. You can also sign over your signature responsibilities to the PO so that you dont have to go to the counter and sign for anything. I like the no hassle secure delivery. Downside is that PO boxes are not free, and for some, may not be handy.
 

Mr Paradise

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They're not giving the Ozark the respect that Fred is getting. That kind of disrespect is very Ft Moultrie like and I hope the mint doesn't plan another 20,000 or so come the fall.
 

Silver Art

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I did sell a Vicksburg bullion puck for $131 today (I paid $100 for it earlier this year). After paying ebay fees, paypal fees and shipping, I made a net profit of $11 on the deal. Not great profit but it adds up considering that I made $21 on the Arches bullion puck that I sold on Monday (July 3).
I sold a another Vicksburg bullion puck for $131 earlier today. That is my second Vicksburg bullion puck that I sold for this week and my 3rd overall Vicksburg puck that I sold for 2017. The 1st Vicksburg bullion puck that I sold was sold in mid-February 2017 for $150 when the premium for that particular puck was selling for around that price in early 2017 on ebay and Apmex was charging around $167 during that time. However, since Mid-February 2017, the premium on that Vicksburg bullion puck was dropping and as a result, I needed to drop my price to $131 to stay competitive when I sold the 2nd and 3rd Vicksburg pucks during this week because Apmex dropped the price on theirs to $146 (before the drop in spot silver).

For the 2nd Vicksburg bullion puck that I sold today, after ebay and paypal fees and after I ship it, I will end up making about $6 because I bought this one for $105. That's fine since still made a small net profit on it.

I do have a 4th Vicksburg bullion puck that I bought for $110 but I am going to keep that one since I sold all of my duplicate ones. During this week (Week of July 2 to July 8, 2017), I sold a total of 3 bullion pucks (1 Arches bullion puck and 2 Vicksburg bullion pucks). Decent profit. I am happy with it.

I also still have the Frederick bullion puck that I bought on Apmex when it came out (bought for $115.73) and I am going to hold on to that one for the time being. I bought an Ozark bullion puck yesterday for $109.45 on Bay Precious Metals and once I get it, I will hold on to that one for the time being. I want to see if the mintages will continue to hold up on the Frederick and Ozark bullion pucks.

I still plan to buy the Ozark "P" (because I like the design) when it comes out but I am not in a rush to get it since I am anticipating that they will be around for a while because of low demand and high premiums (still $149.95 even after spot silver dropping in the $15's). I will continue to concentrate on "bottom fishing" for certain bullion pucks to flip and , of course, I am continuing to buy '70's silver art bars to add to my collection and to flip on ebay (if I find any duplicate ones).

EDIT: BTW I still have the slabbed 2012 Volcanoes bullion puck that I bought earlier this year for $175. I plan to keep this Volcanoes puck.
 
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Silver Art

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6 Ozarks left at $108.50 per, from Bay Precious Metals. Bunch sold today.
They are officially sold out of the Ozark bullion pucks now when I checked a few minutes ago.
 

Silver Art

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They're not giving the Ozark the respect that Fred is getting. That kind of disrespect is very Ft Moultrie like and I hope the mint doesn't plan another 20,000 or so come the fall.
Even though I like the Frederick Douglass design, the Ozark design is better than the Frederick design IMO. I would give it time for the Ozark premium to rise. I truly think that the Ozark bullion mintage will hold at 20,000 and the USMint does not have any extra Ozarks stashed in the breakroom. We will see.
 

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Bold Precious Metals showing out of stock on Ozark also. Really wish the USMint would give some clarification. With all the sites selling so many the last week you know they have tried to order more. Maybe the Mint's bullion sales division was closed for 4th of July week? Or didn't update for the week?
I can see the Douglass staying sold out as its release was 3 months ago and it hasn't had a mintage increase in over a month.
The Ozark was just released 5 weeks ago and sold out in a couple weeks. They could easily justify releasing more. But will they when the price of silver is this low?
Maybe the mint is waiting for a rebound in the price of silver to either release previously minted coins, or to actually mint some more coins.

Oh well I've got 2 NGC 69DPL Douglass and 3 raw Ozarks. I can't justify anymore unless the mint confirms 20000 is the final numbers.
 

Silver Art

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Bold Precious Metals showing out of stock on Ozark also. Really wish the USMint would give some clarification. With all the sites selling so many the last week you know they have tried to order more. Maybe the Mint's bullion sales division was closed for 4th of July week? Or didn't update for the week?
I can see the Douglass staying sold out as its release was 3 months ago and it hasn't had a mintage increase in over a month.
The Ozark was just released 5 weeks ago and sold out in a couple weeks. They could easily justify releasing more. But will they when the price of silver is this low?
Maybe the mint is waiting for a rebound in the price of silver to either release previously minted coins, or to actually mint some more coins.

Oh well I've got 2 NGC 69DPL Douglass and 3 raw Ozarks. I can't justify anymore unless the mint confirms 20000 is the final numbers.
That is why I only bought one Ozark. Buying just one limits my risk of the USMint pulling a fast one by manipulating the mintage upward. That helped me when I bought just one Effigy bullion puck since the Effigy bullion mintage went from sub-20,000 mintage to 35,000 (and probably going up from there).
 

Starter

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Bold Precious Metals showing out of stock on Ozark also. Really wish the USMint would give some clarification. With all the sites selling so many the last week you know they have tried to order more. Maybe the Mint's bullion sales division was closed for 4th of July week? Or didn't update for the week?
I can see the Douglass staying sold out as its release was 3 months ago and it hasn't had a mintage increase in over a month.
The Ozark was just released 5 weeks ago and sold out in a couple weeks. They could easily justify releasing more. But will they when the price of silver is this low?
Maybe the mint is waiting for a rebound in the price of silver to either release previously minted coins, or to actually mint some more coins.

Oh well I've got 2 NGC 69DPL Douglass and 3 raw Ozarks. I can't justify anymore unless the mint confirms 20000 is the final numbers.
I'm in the same boat.

I bought 5 raw Douglass and 1 raw Ozark.

Now waiting for next year's coins (the 10 Effigy coins I bought earlier will put a damper on my remaining purchases for the year)...
 

Foxwoods Man

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MCM has 35 Ozark left at $117.20
Provident...out
APMEX has over 100 at $131.04
Bold PM ...out (has 71 Fred's at $158)
JM Bullion has over 100 at $133 and over 100 Fred's at $165
SD Bullion has over 100 at $126 (and is sold out of Effigy and Fred)
 

Silver Art

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MCM has 35 Ozark left at $117.20
Provident...out
APMEX has over 100 at $131.04
Bold PM ...out (has 71 Fred's at $158)
JM Bullion has over 100 at $133 and over 100 Fred's at $165
SD Bullion has over 100 at $126 (and is sold out of Effigy and Fred)

If Bay Precious Metals somehow gets more Ozarks to sell, they will IMO be at a much higher price than the $108 that they were selling for before they sold out and that is assuming that the Ozark bullion mintage of 20,000 continues to hold for the next few weeks. The $117.20 at MCM currently has them for will not last long IMO.
 

90%RealMoney

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I snagged two of those BPM Ozarks yesterday, when it got below ten left. Used my Ebucks to get it below a hundo per coin. They were gone about 45 minutes later. The Mint numbers haven't updated since Sunday, July 2nd. I guess we'll find out this coming week, if anything weird is going on.
 

goldfanbrad

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MCM has 35 Ozark left at $117.20
Provident...out
APMEX has over 100 at $131.04
Bold PM ...out (has 71 Fred's at $158)
JM Bullion has over 100 at $133 and over 100 Fred's at $165
SD Bullion has over 100 at $126 (and is sold out of Effigy and Fred)
Bullion Exchanges on ebay has over 100 Ozark available (across 3 listings) at $117.26 for 1 coin or lower for larger lots. $113.75 per coin in 10 coin roll.
 

Mr Paradise

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The Ozark has alot of detail you'll be pleased. And I agree, the ATB's shine a little shinier when laying in the palm of your hands.
 

Silver Art

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FWIW the mintage numbers for the Frederick and Ozark bullion pucks are still holding at 20,000 mintage each. Maybe the mintage for the effigy bullion puck will stay at 35,000 and stop going up but do not bet on it. Not that at matters for effigy now since the "mintage damage" has already been done to a puck that had a poor design to start with (based on with others have said).
 

Mr Paradise

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35,000 is actually quite scarce when compared to the millions upon millions of ASE's floating around. When the series finishes up and the Grandpa's (of the world) start putting sets together for the grandkids anything under 40k should do nicely.
 

Silver Art

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35,000 is actually quite scarce when compared to the millions upon millions of ASE's floating around. When the series finishes up and the Grandpa's (of the world) start putting sets together for the grandkids anything under 40k should do nicely.
That is a good point. To add further, 35,000 mintage is low when compared to the 126,000 mintage each of the 2011 Olympic and Glacier bullion pucks and to the 105,000 mintage of the 2016 Shawnee bullion pucks.

I guess I got used to comparing the 2017 bullion puck mintages to the 2012 bullion puck mintages.
 

Mr Paradise

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The 2018's have great designs so I'm guessing demand pushes them above 50k at least unless the mint pulls an Ozark on one of them.
 

Mr Paradise

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I don't have the previous year pre-sale dates but mid July does seem a little early for the 4th puck. Purchasing a single Ellis puck will cost you $118.95 at Provident as of post. I've never seen a puck that debuted with such a high premium ( 23.79 an ounce).

I'll be passing on this one till the premiums come down.

EDIT* Checked Apmex and they have a single Ellis for $101.05 as of post and SD has them for $96.27 ....so I will be purchasing one after all.

Provident is messing with my brain at midnight.
 
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savvydon

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Ellis Island is on pre-sale at APMEX, Provident, SD Bullion, and likely many other dealers that I have not looked at or are aware of.

All are saying shipping will not occur for 2 months (~September 18). Is a 2-month pre-sale delivery time normal for these pucks? Seems much longer that I recall in the past, but I'm not following the series closely like you folks are. Asking because I have an interest in a couple of the 2018 issues and wish to get them at a good price at the recommendations that can be offered by you experts.

Thank you - P
Never seen a presale this early. Wonder if the big boys are expecting a silver beat down later this summer?
 

Silver Art

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Not sure I've seen a puck offered a full two months in advance of release. This just keeps getting weirder.
That is interesting to me. It will also be interesting to see what the "final mintage" will be on this one. Paying attention to the what the Ellis Island premiums will do could possibly be an indicator that the "big boy" online bullion dealers know about what the mintage will be since they have to order them from the US Mint. If the premiums start going higher in a short period of time from pre-sale prices (like Frederick did), then it could be near the final mintage and no more will be produced and the mintage number that you see in the US Mint bullion report could be the final mintage (or getting close to it). If the premiums stay about the same or do not go up very much from pre-sale (like Effigy for example), then the mintage for that particular puck is not final and will continue to go up. I would give it about between 2 to 4 months after pre-sale for everything to play out.

This is NOT scientific and it is just a WAG on my part based on what I have observed. The big boy online dealers (i.e. JMbullion, Apmex, Provident, etc) will have a better idea and will know more then we would because they have to order the bullion pucks directly from the US Mint.
 

Silver Art

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Never seen a presale this early. Wonder if the big boys are expecting a silver beat down later this summer?

Hmmmm...............Yeah..............Do the pre-sale a month earlier than normal for Ellis Island when spot is $16.50 before a possible drop to as low as the $13-$14 range later this year?????? Yeah it is a possibility. When they (the major online dealers) ship in September (For example, Apmex expected ship date for Ellis Island bullion puck is Sept 7), spot could be much lower than the current $16.50 level say, for example, $14.50. I think that you might be on to something Don. We will see how it plays out in September when the Ellis Island puck ships.
 

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I guess it could drop...or go up. I will take the side of the latter. I pre-purchased my tube of Ellis when it was around $15.30 (last Thursday..$93.75) and it seems to have started an upward move since then.

$17.50 range the first week of June and dropped to around $15.25. It has been inching up since then. I guess time will tell
 

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I talked to a wholesaler and asked him what was going on and he had no idea what the mint was up to. He said either the Mint was going to allocate to specific dealers and, having told them this, they had started early resale and inching up premiums, or plenty would be minted and prices would collapse near the time of issue.

I find this all very frustrating and unnerving. I feel like someone is trying to create a market and we, the people, are being manipulated and squeezed.

Don't forget that a good number of people are likely to want a large silver coin that commemorates Ellis Island. Things could get very interesting in the next few months.
 

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It's a bullion product. Buy it at pre-sale and move on to the next one. What happens to mintage or resulting price is not predictable so don't bother to try.
 

savvydon

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I was caught flat footed on this one. Not ready to make my purchase 6 or 8 weeks prior to release. It is doable but requires some fancy footwork for me. It would be nice to make some sense out of what is going on, but I agree that doing so is likely a fruitless task.
 

Silver Art

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While it is true that ATB bullion puck mintages and its premiums are unpredictable we cannot help but speculate of what might happen. ATB bullion puck mintage and premium speculation makes this thread more interesting (and bigger) IMO.

When the major online dealers suddenly do their pre-sale of the next ATB bullion puck much earlier than expected, then that can fuel speculation of what the dealers know and posters, such as myself, will offer speculation of what could happen.

You are right that in the end it is just a .999 silver product and it will melt the same since the smelter will not care what it is pressed on it. However, on the one that will not see the smelter, then supply and demand for a particular puck will determine which bullion puck will gain the large premiums over melt.

Just my two hyper-inflated cents.
 

savvydon

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You are right that in the end it is just a .999 silver product and it will melt the same since the smelter will not care what it is pressed on it. However, on the one that will not see the smelter, then supply and demand for a particular puck will determine which bullion puck will gain the large premiums over melt.
Correct. All you have to do is look at what happened with this series in 2012 to realize that sometimes this market creates some high premium bullion.
 

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...and the Fred and Ozark presently have the same mintage as the mintage lowest Hawaii and Denali now selling for near $250/each raw...key word "presently" but i see no movement to indicate it will change
 

Silver Art

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Correct. All you have to do is look at what happened with this series in 2012 to realize that sometimes this market creates some high premium bullion.
...and the Fred and Ozark presently have the same mintage as the mintage lowest Hawaii and Denali now selling for near $250/each raw...key word "presently" but i see no movement to indicate it will change
That was why in a few of my posts on this thread (post #s 4558, 4562 & 4577 that I wrote in April 2017) I was referring to the 2012 bullion pucks as comparision to what the 2017 bullion pucks could potentially be in terms of mintage and future premium if the mintages for Frederick and Ozark and the premiums for the remaining two pucks are in the low 20,000 range.

I still think that the 2017 bullion mintages for the remaining 2017 bullion pucks will still resemble 2012 mintage for the most part. The 35,000 Effigy mintage threw everything out of wack. If Ellis and George Rogers Clark pucks are in the low 20,000 range, then the 2017 bullion mintage as a whole will be the 2nd lowest mintage behind 2012. We will see what happens.
 
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90%RealMoney

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...and the Fred and Ozark presently have the same mintage as the mintage lowest Hawaii and Denali now selling for near $250/each raw...key word "presently" but i see no movement to indicate it will change
And yet another head scratcher. Of those two coins, the Ozark has to be the more popular, yet the Douglass is selling for considerably more money. Alot must think the Douglass is done for sure, and that the Ozark might suddenly have more show up. If both are truly done mintage wise, then the Ozark is selling at a discount right now. Neither is as popular as the Hawaii and Denali seem to be. 2012 turned out as a perfect storm. Best looking coins, with lowest mintages. Design popularity seems to go far with this series.
 

Silver Art

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And yet another head scratcher. Of those two coins, the Ozark has to be the more popular, yet the Douglass is selling for considerably more money. Alot must think the Douglass is done for sure, and that the Ozark might suddenly have more show up. If both are truly done mintage wise, then the Ozark is selling at a discount right now. Neither is as popular as the Hawaii and Denali seem to be. 2012 turned out as a perfect storm. Best looking coins, with lowest mintages. Design popularity seems to go far with this series.

The Frederick also had a 2+ month head start on the Ozark. If the Ozark is really done at 20,000, I would wait to see in 2 more months from today if the Ozark will see the same kind of premium (or higher) like Frederick is currently demanding from the main online dealers.

I have to agree that the Ozark is the best puck design of 2017. No question in my mind about that.

The 2012 pucks as a whole will be very tough to beat in terms of both mintage and design. Even if the 2017 finished with mintages of 35,000, 20,000, 20,000, 20,000, 20,000, the total mintage for the 2017 bullion pucks would be 115,000 which would still be higher than the 2012 combined 5-puck mintage of 113,800.

Even the 2012 Acada bullion puck at 25,400 (highest mintage of all 2012 bullion pucks), it is on sale at Apmex for over $300 and will fetch prices as high as of between $250 - $280 range on ebay. However, that design is probably the 2nd best design behind Volcanoes design.
 
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