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AR Trigger

TomD

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#1
I've been a competition rifle shooter since the late 80's, several different types of competitions. I've got a few custom and purpose built rifles and no matter the type of competition, the rifles have one thing in common, a really good trigger. One of them is a pretty tricked out Colt, specialized for 600 + yards that I used for F Class matches.

A couple of years ago, I bought a pretty much basic DPMS AR carbine that is used for bedside duty, probably has fewer than 50 rounds through it.. It's accuracy is okay for close range but it's not in the same area code as my match weapons. I haven't even touched the weapon in over a year so I grabbed it this afternoon and found it covered in dust. I field stripped it and cleaned it and dry snapped it a few times and found the trigger to be totally unacceptable. Didn't dig out my trigger scale but it felt like a long, grinding, dragging 6-8 pounds. I can't have that.

I want to replace the trigger but don't want to spend a lot of money. I have no intention of ever shooting this in competition. Spent a while online and it looks like a Giselle 2 stage trigger is the best bang (no pun intended) for the buck at $165. https://geissele.com/geissele-2-stage-trigger.html I'll do the install myself.

Anyone have experience with AR replacement triggers?

Pictures below, my long range Colt and DPMS



DSC01296.jpg
 

Irons

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#2
I put a Jard non adjustable AR trigger in my Colt. 100x better than the trigger that came in it without spending a lot, I also didn't want anything complicated. Their quality is fantastic IMO that trigger has been in my rifle for over 16 years with zero complaints.

Part #Description Price
3904 3 lb $65.00 Buy Now
3905 3.5 lb $65.00 Buy Now
3906 4 lb $65.00 Buy Now
*Plus $7.45 For Shipping & Handling


https://www.jardinc.com/jard-ar-triggers
 

SilverCity

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#3
QUOTE: Didn't dig out my trigger scale but it felt like a long, grinding, dragging 6-8 pounds. I can't have that.

Take an Arkansas stone to the thing. Smooths them out nicely. Add a set of JP High Reliability Springs ($10-12) and you might be pleasantly surprised. Lightens the pull too.


SC
 
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stonedywankanobe

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#4
I had a Dpms oracle, gave it to my oldest daughter. Gritty and stiff trigger as well. Replaced it with the palmetto enhanced polished trigger for 29 bucks. Not a match trigger to be sure but a big improvement for the money on a budget rifle/ truck gun.
 

ttazzman

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#7
I put in a Giselle 2 stage trigger (2.5lb.) in my PWS MK118 and I can hit a dinner plate at 200 yards with a 3X scope.

I don't need any more accuracy then that for where I live.
3x scope?......i cant imagine the reticles not totally covering the dinner plate at that range.....lol....i dont think i have enough glass if i cant see my heartbeat
 

TomD

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#8
I put in a Giselle 2 stage trigger (2.5lb.) in my PWS MK118 and I can hit a dinner plate at 200 yards with a 3X scope.

I don't need any more accuracy then that for where I live.
The top AR in my pictures, the Colt, will shoot sub-MOA, less than 2" at 200 yards. If you want to see accuracy, I used to shoot benchrest. At 200 yards a 0.3 (3 tenth) inch group at 200 would be considered to be decent but nothing to get excited about.

Here's one of those rifles, this one chambered in 6PPC a wildcat round based on the Russian 7.62x39 if you can believe that.

 

smooth

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#9
I bought a cheap DPMS a few years ago as well. Horrible trigger, unacceptable. I replaced it with a Rock River Arms 2 stage match trigger. Im sure there are nicer triggers out there but it was a huge improvement.
 

TomD

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#11
I just bought LaRue, that looks impressive. My original choice of Giselle would have been great but I'm pretty sure the LaRue will be almost an undetectable difference away but for $90 less. The reason I asked here.

Now I'll probably burn the saved money in ammo. On the plus side, I live in farm country and can walk out my door and cut loose into the woods. The guy across the road has a 600 yard range set up.
 

TomD

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#13
I once shot an F Class match at 600 years shooting a Savage BVSS rebarreled to 6MM BR and a Canjar trigger. F Class is from the prone shooting scoped rifles from bi-pods or bags. The barrel was 28", 1.25" cylinder (no taper) with an 1:8" twist barrel. I was shooting 105 grain Lapua bullets on top of Varget powder. Every shot I've done except rimfire in decades has been reloads by me. F Class is shooting 3 relays, each 20 rounds. Shoot as many sighters as you want but when you declare for target, the next 20 all count.

With F Class at 600 yards, the 10 ring is 12" (2 MOA) and the X ring is 6" (1 MOA), so the perfect score for 60 rounds is 600-60X. On this relatively calm wind day I managed 600-58X. It doesn't take much wind at 600 yards to push a bullet out of a 6" circle.

I've still got that rifle is somebody here wants to play that game. I still do but I've got other rifles. The bolt face is a .473 so all you have to do is screw on a new barrel if you want to shoot 6.5 Creedmore or any of a host of other calibers.

Those are 48" black circles down there, you are aiming at 6" in the center.

 
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TomD

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#14
Here's a specialized rig for 1000+ yards chambered in 300 Short Mag

DSC1050-1post.jpg
 

Argentsum

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#15
When I hunt I rarely get a chance to shoot off a bench-rest so 3X is enough for my needs.

More often then not the quarry is at less then 200 yards and I'm shooting from a standing position, possibly with a bit of bracing if I have a moment and the foliage is favorable. I have a Bushnell Elite 6500 scope on my .308 that goes from 2.5X to something over 10X...and I typically shoot with it set at 2.5X.

Hell, I won't even bother to take a shot pass 300 yards. I can't guarantee a hit much less any shot placement.
I am in awe (...and a bit jealous) of folks who can manage hits at 1,000 yards.
You have to account for wind, bullet drop, temperature, and the earth's rotation to make shots that far out.

Regardless, the standard AR-15 trigger is between 6.0 and 6.5 pounds.

The lower the weight on the trigger the better your accuracy will be.

HOWEVER, assuming your RIG is tactical you do not want a trigger with less then 2.5 lbs.

Guissele makes triggers with 1.5 lb. pull. as well as triggers that are 2.5 lb.

If you got your finger on the trigger and you flinch (or just breath heavy) you're gonna send one down range.
I'd also recommend not dropping your rifle or moving through heavy brush with the safety off.

I'd imagine the 1000 yard shooters are set to 1.5 lb trigger as a maximum but these are folks who are waiting for
the quarry to come to them.
 
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D-FENZ

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#16
I've been a competition rifle shooter since the late 80's, several different types of competitions. I've got a few custom and purpose built rifles and no matter the type of competition, the rifles have one thing in common, a really good trigger. One of them is a pretty tricked out Colt, specialized for 600 + yards that I used for F Class matches.

A couple of years ago, I bought a pretty much basic DPMS AR carbine that is used for bedside duty, probably has fewer than 50 rounds through it.. It's accuracy is okay for close range but it's not in the same area code as my match weapons. I haven't even touched the weapon in over a year so I grabbed it this afternoon and found it covered in dust. I field stripped it and cleaned it and dry snapped it a few times and found the trigger to be totally unacceptable. Didn't dig out my trigger scale but it felt like a long, grinding, dragging 6-8 pounds. I can't have that.

I want to replace the trigger but don't want to spend a lot of money. I have no intention of ever shooting this in competition. Spent a while online and it looks like a Giselle 2 stage trigger is the best bang (no pun intended) for the buck at $165. https://geissele.com/geissele-2-stage-trigger.html I'll do the install myself.

Anyone have experience with AR replacement triggers?

Pictures below, my long range Colt and DPMS



View attachment 142836
Give Denny Williams a call at Williams Trigger Specialties. 217-578-3026. He or his wife will answer the phone and he will be happy to talk about your particular weapon. It's what he does and he is very, very good at it. He designed the original HK, AR15 and WTSGI set triggers and sold several patents for them to manufacturers. I know him personally. He's a semi-retired, sort of cantankerous guy- basically one of us- who just still fiddles with these things. I wouldn't call anyone else and you will be happy you did too. Tell him that the guy with the blue tape and ammo boxes sent you. He'll know who you're talking about.

I see he does maintain a web page at http://www.williamstriggers.com/
 
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TomD

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#17
D_FENZ. I've already ordered a LaRue but will definitely keep a record of Mr Williams above. The trigger work I'll do myself is limited to installing a trigger made by someone else, maybe a drop in or one with a couple of subassemblies like the AR triggers. I might stone a sear if I don't have to disassemble anything. But go into the guts and start modifying the internals? Not me! Too steep a learning curve.

I keep a spare Remington pattern drop in with me in my range box. I know guys who'll machine a spare bolt but my skills don't go that far.
 

TomD

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#18
The LaRue showed up and went in easily enough except the minute or two of cussing while getting the hammer in while holding it in place with one hand against the spring tension and getting the pin started with the other two hands.

I'll have to find my trigger scale but the second stage feels a little heavy. The break is perfect though, no creep, VERY crisp break and no overtravel at all.

I've got a Remington 541-X .22 target rifle that I sure wish someone made a trigger like this for.