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Are American Eagle Bullion Coin Sales Taking a Breather?

SongSungAU

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#1
Looks like the steam kind of ran out compared to the last couple of years?

SE160920.jpg

The red boxes indicate the record months since the program started in 1986. The December record is still held by 1986 at 3,696,000.
 

stonedywankanobe

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#3
Thinking the rallie silver had this year put pressure on high er premium constitutional coins.
Come wide brim hat time these same folks will be found wanting imho.
 

tekhen

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#4
No they are not... but paper gold is.
Overall, those who 'invest/insure' their fiat into gold eagles will continue to do so. From what I've read over the years, I would assume that many do not purchase the actual coin but purchase he coin through IRAs.
Paper gold then effects the sale of the actual coinage.
Collectors however will continue to purchase but I do not know the collector numbers.
As far as investors are concerned, it is unfortunate that the fiat is weighed more than the actual weight in troy ounces.
 

SongSungAU

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#5
Not a single month in 2017 set a sales record. Four monthly records made in 2015 and two in 2016.

American Eagle Silver Bullion Sales

American Eagle Silver Bullion Sales.jpg


I don't know if the December 2017 amount is final or still to be updated. At any rate, the 2017 total for the whole year is less than half the total for 2016.
 

Foxwoods Man

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#6
I switched from ASE's to bullion pucks a few years ago but those sales aren't making up the decreased ASE sales...320k vs 3.8 million in September?
 

hernancortes

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#7
There is still time to buy the 1/2 oz '17 gold eagle cheaply while dealers still have them. They wont be as cheap 6 months from now.
 

savvydon

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#8
Looks like the public is going back to sleep re PMs. Works fine for me - Nothing to see here.whistle:
 

Merlin

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#9
No they are not... but paper gold is.
Overall, those who 'invest/insure' their fiat into gold eagles will continue to do so. From what I've read over the years, I would assume that many do not purchase the actual coin but purchase he coin through IRAs.
Paper gold then effects the sale of the actual coinage.
Collectors however will continue to purchase but I do not know the collector numbers.
As far as investors are concerned, it is unfortunate that the fiat is weighed more than the actual weight in troy ounces.
You are allowed to hold physical gold and silver coins in an IRA. My trustee allows it.
 

Merlin

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#11
Merlin...

Do you hold the medals 'in hand' or is it held via custodian?
If your IRA itself owns the coins, then the custodian keeps them in a depository. On the other hand, if your IRA owns a limited liability company (my situation), then that company can own and hold anything. In my case, the IRA owned LLC has rent producing real estate, a hard currency account with Merk, a checking account, and a 500-coin, mint-sealed box of American eagle coins (which is held in the possession of the LLC buried God knows where or even lost in a boating accident.) Now, if I want to sell anything and take a distribution, the funds have to be remitted to the IRA trustee who then withholds taxes and issues the distribution check. Note: it is strictly forbidden for me to co-mingle my IRA-owned LLC funds with my personal money. The checking account, the real estate title, the coins -- all are in the name of the LLC and not available for my day-to-day use. The penalty for violating this rule can involve IRS confiscation of all the assets. Ouch!
 
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southfork

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#12
Eagles are just plain silver and the mint upcharge is too high, generic rounds is the way to go
 

Foxwoods Man

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#14
They are extremely liquid, and when it comes time to sell the premium comes back to you. Spread is as tight as any other silver medium. 2c
Correct but I wounder how a sale of an IRA restricted monster box would go....you can't/don't have possession so who decides on where to sell or who is the buyer and how is the physical transfer made. It's not like a stock/mutual fund where the trade is handled by you through the IRA company.

I don't see the purpose of a monster box in an IRA. There are no profits (or losses) until it's sold anyway. It's not like dividends and cap gains are deferred...AND you will probably lose most of that premium over spot when selling to a dealer
 

southfork

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#15
They are extremely liquid, and when it comes time to sell the premium comes back to you. Spread is as tight as any other silver medium. 2c
Bought silver last week at www.funtopics.com .25 over, eagles were at least 2 bucks over, from the past they would not pay 2 over for eagles maybe a buck at best and generic can normally be sold at .50 under, all in all it depends on local but over time ive not seen a fair return on paying extra for eagles
 

savvydon

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#16
Correct but I wounder how a sale of an IRA restricted monster box would go....you can't/don't have possession so who decides on where to sell or who is the buyer and how is the physical transfer made. It's not like a stock/mutual fund where the trade is handled by you through the IRA company.

I don't see the purpose of a monster box in an IRA. There are no profits (or losses) until it's sold anyway. It's not like dividends and cap gains are deferred...AND you will probably lose most of that premium over spot when selling to a dealer
I was just referring to buying and selling ASEs vs other bullion in general.

I am not much of a fan of not being able to hold your own physical. Too many questions like the ones you are asking that become difficult to answer. Devil is in the details. Having said that, it is possible to hold your own metals in some PM IRAs.
 

savvydon

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#17
Bought silver last week at www.funtopics.com .25 over, eagles were at least 2 bucks over, from the past they would not pay 2 over for eagles maybe a buck at best and generic can normally be sold at .50 under, all in all it depends on local but over time ive not seen a fair return on paying extra for eagles
Fair enough. It definitely does depend on the local market one is using. A lot of dealers will pay $1.50 over spot or more for ASEs in my experience.
 

southfork

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#18
This is why you should never let others hold your metals

Morgan Stanley to settle class-action lawsuit

Reuters Staff

2 Min Read


(Recasts, adds response from Morgan Stanley)

NEW YORK, June 12 (Reuters) - Morgan Stanley (MS.N) will pay $4.4 million to settle a class-action lawsuit with brokerage clients who bought precious metals and paid storage fees, according to a court filing.

The proposed settlement, which must be approved by the federal court in Manhattan, includes a cash component of $1.5 million and economic and remedial benefits valued at about $2.9 million, according to a court filing on Monday.

The suit, filed in August 2005, alleged that Morgan Stanley told clients it was selling them precious metals that they would own in full and that the company would store.

But Morgan Stanley either made no investment specifically on behalf of those clients, or it made entirely different investments of lesser value and security, according to the complaint.

“While we deny the allegations, we settled the case to avoid the cost and distraction of continued litigation,” Morgan Stanley said in a statement.

According to the filing, Morgan Stanley argued there were no violations of law and no default or failure to perform or deliver precious metals.

Morgan Stanley53.36
MS.NNew York Stock Exchange
+0.47(+0.89%)

  • MS.N
The suit was filed by Selwyn Silberblatt, on behalf of himself and others who bought precious metals -- gold, silver, platinum and palladium in bullion bar or coins -- from Morgan Stanley DW Inc. and its predecessors and paid fees for their storage, according to the filing. The suit covered investors who did so between Feb. 19, 1986, and Jan. 10, 2007.

Silberblatt, a resident of Maine when the suit was filed, bought silver bars from Morgan Stanley during that period.
 

SongSungAU

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#19
I'm not saying the Presidents were responsible for the sales numbers, I just thought it would be interesting to view the number sold during the recent administrations.

504 million sold since inception of program in 1986.
308 million sold during Obama's eight years. That's 61% of all sales.

SAEsales.jpg
 

SongSungAU

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#20
Not a single month in 2017 set a sales record. Four monthly records made in 2015 and two in 2016.

American Eagle Silver Bullion Sales

View attachment 97008

I don't know if the December 2017 amount is final or still to be updated. At any rate, the 2017 total for the whole year is less than half the total for 2016.
The numbers just continue to decline:

SAE2018a.jpg
 
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#21
I talked to one of my dealers about this. He said 2018's aren't being pumped out because people are happy trading random year ASE's.
 

southfork

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#22
I talked to one of my dealers about this. He said 2018's aren't being pumped out because people are happy trading random year ASE's.
More like no one wants to buy in a sustained downward market, I'm buying silver when I can get close to spot but I weeont pay 2/3 bucks over for a sae
 

savvydon

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#23
You won’t get Eagles close to spot unless they are impaired. You are doing well at $2 over. Anything less is a steal at these prices. The spread will likely be similar on resale of Eagles as it is on generic coins/bars, unless a dealer is trying to take you.
 

savvydon

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#24
Interest is way down now because most Americans have a short attention span. On the heels of the initial downturn after the big run up in 2011 Eagles were scarfed up by the millions on a monthly basis. These high mintage Eagles have flooded the market because people either have to sell or they are tired of waiting for the moonshot. The lower numbers for this year’s Eagle demonstrates the general public malaise over precious metals currently. It won’t be until most folks have completely gotten over precious metals that we will have another moonshot.
 

Foxwoods Man

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#25
Two factors;

1) the lesser one is that some have switched to 5 oz. silver ATB pucks from ASE's (me)
2) spot silver has not given much hope for any sustainable increase in value. Over 5 years spot is DOWN 18.4%, over the last two years DOWN 19.4%. Even stretched to 10 years still down 15.7%. There are other investment products with better potential . Even under a mattress gives better returns...zero loss

I don't know why but I still buy my tubes of ATB's....just habit I guess
 

savvydon

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#26
Two factors;

1) the lesser one is that some have switched to 5 oz. silver ATB pucks from ASE's (me)
2) spot silver has not given much hope for any sustainable increase in value. Over 5 years spot is DOWN 18.4%, over the last two years DOWN 19.4%. Even stretched to 10 years still down 15.7%. There are other investment products with better potential . Even under a mattress gives better returns...zero loss

I don't know why but I still buy my tubes of ATB's....just habit I guess
Even under a mattress you are losing ground as inflation and currency devaluation do their thing over the long term.

I think of silver as sound money. Over time it maintains its value. Guess it could just collapse and stay there indefinitely, but that’s not where I place my bet.

The five oz bullion ATB adds collectibility to scarcity and throws in a tasty dash of visual flair at a competitive price. I like that recipe. 2c
 

Foxwoods Man

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#27
Even under a mattress you are losing ground as inflation and currency devaluation do their thing over the long term.
Correct....but over 10/5/2 years at least you wouldn't be down 15/18/19% in ADDITION to the above.

When something is worth less than when you bought it that is outside the influence of inflation which would be an added issue.

A $2000 silver (or whatever) purchase 5 years ago is now around $1640 before inflation is factored in....

Metals have zero protection against inflation if the drop in value exceeds the rate of inflation which is just added on to the loss...It only works when the price APPRECIATES over the rate of inflation

Just sayin.....
 

Buck

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#29
so, I should buy a roll, right?
 

Joe King

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#31
A $2000 silver (or whatever) purchase 5 years ago is now around $1640 before inflation is factored in....
The question is, what would have otherwise been done with the money had it not been used to buy that Ag? It could have been spent on movie tix and dinners out. If that happened, what would it's value be today? Extra 15lbs around the waist?
...and it's easy to use hindsight to look at the charts and say coulda woulda shoulda, but the issue is that at the time it was bought, the purchaser obviously thought it would go up or at least hold it's value. Otherwise why would anyone buy it, or anything for that matter? I sure don't run out and buy things today that I'm pretty sure will be on sale tomorrow, do you?

What it comes down to is, it's just a chance ya takes. On Ag, or Au, or stocks bonds a houser or btc or anything else one might think is a good buy at the time. Maybe they'll be right, maybe they'll be wrong.
 

SongSungAU

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#33
The numbers just continue to decline:

View attachment 106189
Not a single monthly record broken in the last two years (2017 & 2018).
Ten of twelve monthly records were broken in the four years before 2017 (the red or pink highlights)

ASEsales2018.jpg


The September record was set in 2011.
The December record is still held by the first year of ASE sales in 1986..... 32 years ago.
 

southfork

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#35
I'd buy them but won't pay 2\3 over melt, its only silver
 

savvydon

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#36
I'd buy them but won't pay 2\3 over melt, its only silver
Yes but it is gov silver and additionally qualifies for certain tax advantages and allow for IRAs. Because of these factors the resale is above melt as well. The main consideration is the buy/sell spread, and in this department ASEs seem to fair about as well as any other form of silver. 2c