• Same story, different day...........year ie more of the same fiat floods the world
  • There are no markets
  • "Spreading the ideas of freedom loving people on matters regarding high finance, politics, constructionist Constitution, and mental masturbation of all types"

Are there any pilots here? Please debunk this!

Mujahideen

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#81
yet it cannot stop a butterfly from floating gently away.
The butterfly is light weight, why wouldn’t it be able to fly from flapping its wings?
 

solarion

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#82
Of course. I realize the butterfly is lightweight, that's precisely the point. The butterfly has a mechanism to defy the allegedly powerful effects of gravity, but that mechanism is plainly very weak right? How does a helium balloon defy the allegedly powerful effects of gravity? No wings, no ability to exert force of it's own, yet it rises to a point of equilibrium with its surroundings.

Same is true if I jump into a pool of water with an air filled ball. Gravity does not pull that ball toward the center of the Earth...it rises to the surface of the water. IOW it's less dense than its surroundings and it seeks equilibrium. There's no need for gravity magic to explain any of this, it's simply buoyancy & density.

How can gravity be a universal "law" we all know about, yet be so selective? ...and still be a fact? Is the surface of a frozen lake...curved?

 
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solarion

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#84
I don't use drugs sir.

We've placed entirely too much trust in pseudo-science to explain the world around us. That trust has been betrayed. We've been led to believe a bunch of stuff that simply is not true.

Natural science has been perverted into a pseudo-scientific religion for atheists.

If you're still skeptical, then simply tell me. WHAT IS GRAVITY?

Definitions that are true, generally only take a word or two, but when you ask someone to define gravity you get a word salad of crap.

Actual scientists with integrity, guys like Thomson, Faraday, Tesla would be spinning in their graves if they could see us now.
 
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solarion

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#86
I don't trust that which I cannot observe with my own senses. Those guys will tell me all about gravity as though they "know" a bunch of stuff they cannot know.

Astronomers have been working to confirm the existence of black holes...literally infinite gravity for decades. They've failed. I trust my own senses.

I trust that which I can observe, repeat, verify. There's no evidence for gravity that I can observe. All mass does not attract all mass, and it most certainly does not do so at "infinite speed".

Plus astronomers all claim belief in NASA/moon landings...and that stuff is a joke.


You've got to be effing kidding me with this ISS crap.
 

solarion

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#87
This dude was smart enough to get away with calling Newton an idiot and remain credible. Here's what he had to say about Newton's "law" of universal gravitation:



Estimated IQ? Johann Wolfgang von Goethe – IQ level: 220.

Newton himself on the absurdity of his own "law" of universal gravitation:



http://www.newtonproject.ox.ac.uk/view/texts/normalized/THEM00258
 

solarion

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#88


What the ridiculous fux?!?



We're being punked.
 

solarion

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#90
would it prove round if you booked east bound flights all the way around the world and back to your departure spot? carry your own compass to confirm east bound on every flight...
No. I would not accept such as conclusive evidence of even a round Earth...let alone a spherical Earth. Here's why:



Is this how our Earth is configured? I've no idea, but a global flight could be made if it is, and it'd not confirm a spherical Earth.

What would confirm a roughly spherical Earth is if I can see/measure Earth's alleged curvature myself. I've thus far seen no evidence to support the conclusion that Earth curves 7.98" per mile squared. I have seen tons of evidence to support the conclusion that water cannot be made to conform to the exterior of a spheroid...and the Earth is allegedly mostly covered by water.
 

solarion

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#91
The transcontinental railroad was 1776 miles long when completed. Did the guys that built it have to take the Earth's curvature into account? Are railroad tracks all curved?



1776 miles = 397.2589090909091 miles of Earth's alleged curvature to deal with. Did they allow for curvature? I seriously doubt it.



The Suez is 121.11 miles in length. Anyone think the water there is curving around the pear shaped oblate spheroid Earth?
 

smooth

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#92
A helium filled balloon of course rises because of it's It's Specific gravity is lessor than its surrounding atmosphere. Just as gasses with a higher SG, such as CO2 are heavier will sink. The helium balloon is still affected by earths gravity, it simply a matter of one force overcoming another like a tug of war.
 

solarion

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#93
I can easily confirm that objects with density > air "sink" or "fall" and objects with density < air "rise". What I cannot confirm is that this is due to something called "gravity".

That's the part that is a leap of faith. If someone can please provide evidence that all mass attracts all other mass and propagates instantaneously I'll gladly accept that as evidence that gravity exists. I've just never seen such evidence.




This ^^^ is provably false. All mass does not attract all mass and definitely does not do so instantaneously. This is precisely why NASA and all scientists that are being honest have to say they do not know what gravity is. It's simply an unproven theory, based on some observably faulty maths. Maths that 351 years later have not been proven by natural science.

It's just mythematics being falsely peddled as fact. Like global warming, evolution, big bang theory, theory of relativity...etc.

 
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solarion

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#94
Accepted scientific methodology gets turned on its head when people's belief structures are challenged. Some will show up demanding proof of a negative. That is they'll demand proof to refute that which has never been proven to begin with.



Their belief structure is founded, not upon logic and reason, but upon faith. Faith in "experts" and those in authority that have assured them of the integrity of the presented data.



A bunch of pseudo-scientists exhibiting group think behavior or intellectual phase locking ≠ fact.
 
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hoarder

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#95
The transcontinental railroad was 1776 miles long when completed. Did the guys that built it have to take the Earth's curvature into account? Are railroad tracks all curved?



1776 miles = 397.2589090909091 miles of Earth's alleged curvature to deal with. Did they allow for curvature? I seriously doubt it.

QUOTE]
It's a matter proportion. Even with todays 1/4 mile long pieces of track, the curvature is so minor that the flexibility of steel would conform to much more curvature than the earth has.
 

solarion

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#96
Absolutely and this is why it goes unnoticed. The expected curvature of a .25 mile railroad track would only be 1.995 inches. That it's not there should surprise none.

...now consider the implications of that repeating itself 7,104 times. Now consider that a train traveling over this track is constantly traveling uphill. Make sense?

The US itself is 2,680 miles coast to coast. That represents 904.6015151515152 miles of curvature. ...uh....
 

hoarder

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#97
...now consider the implications of that repeating itself 7,104 times. Now consider that a train traveling over this track is constantly traveling uphill. Make sense?
It's travelling uphill when it gains elevation and it's travelling downhill when it loses elevation. When it's travelling and stays at the exact same distance from the center of the earth, it's not going uphill or downhill.
 

solarion

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#98
As I've never seen the center of the Earth, I reject its evocation on principle.

Clearly when said train traverses a mountain, it first has to gain altitude and then it has to lose altitude on the other side. ...that is not in dispute.
When it's travelling and stays at the exact same distance from the center of the earth, it's not going uphill or downhill.
Again, that assumes that there's a "center of the Earth" to reference. That's not scientific.

Just the same, for what you said to be true and for the Earth to be a pear shaped oblate spheroid that's 24,901 miles in circumference, would indeed require the train to travel uphill constantly...even while maintaining equa-distance from a theoretical "center of the Earth". Think of an ant traversing a giant sphere. From the ant's perspective he's going to be constantly walking up hill. The grade may be gentle enough that our heroic ant cannot detect it, but he has to deal with the curvature of the spheroid somehow...right?
 

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#99
Just the same, for what you said to be true and for the Earth to be a pear shaped oblate spheroid that's 24,901 miles in circumference, would indeed require the train to travel uphill constantly...even while maintaining equa-distance from a theoretical "center of the Earth". Think of an ant traversing a giant sphere. From the ant's perspective he's going to be constantly walking up hill. The grade may be gentle enough that our heroic ant cannot detect it, but he has to deal with the curvature of the spheroid somehow...right?
A "giant sphere" is not specific. Is it giant enough to have gravitational pull of it's own or is a beach ball on planet earth at sea level giant enough for your example?
I think you're providing a false analogy.
If you have never done any drugs, perhaps this would be a good time to start.
 

solarion

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A "giant sphere" is not specific. Is it giant enough to have gravitational pull of it's own or is a beach ball on planet earth at sea level giant enough for your example?
I think you're providing a false analogy.
If you have never done any drugs, perhaps this would be a good time to start.
I'll accept that as evidence you're out of arguments.

If you want me to prove to you that gravity does not exist, I will freely admit that I cannot. I can only illustrate the absurdity of accepting as fact an unproven 351 year old theory that states that all matter attracts all other matter and does so instantaneously. I can demonstrate to you that water does not, in fact, wrap itself around the exterior of spheroids.

I don't suppose you happen to have specifics on how large and/or dense a spheroid must be...before it develops its own "gravity" magic? ...what is the point in which our theoretical spheroid suddenly develops the ability to cause water to cling to its exterior surface while spinning at 1037 mph and hurtling through space/time at 67,000 mph?

I eagerly anticipate your response. ...and don't worry, I'm patient. NASA will be so excited to find that we've finally solved this 351 year old question right here at GIM2.
 

hoarder

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I can demonstrate to you that water does not, in fact, wrap itself around the exterior of spheroids.
OK, you can pour water on a baseball to demonstrate water does not wrap itself around small spheres. But the water runs off the baseball to wrap itself around a larger sphere.
Size matters. The smaller the sphere, the less gravitational pull.
Question for you: Is the Moon flat? How about the Sun?
 

Joe King

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Gravity majik only seems to work on grand scales which I cannot verify with my own senses. IOW Newton was wrong.
Just because you can't figure something out does not equal other people being wrong.

Gravity magic is allegedly so powerful it can stick trillions of gallons of incredibly heavy water to a spinning spheroid, yet it cannot stop a butterfly from floating gently away. WTF?!?
That's because butterflies don't float. They can fly.


So New York Shitty is supposedly 304 x 304 miles. This means the alleged curvature of the ground upon which New York Shitty rests is allegedly 304x304(7.98) = 737479.68 inches / 12 = 61456.64 feet / 5280 = 11.63951515151515 miles square.

Does ANYBODY believe that the outskirts of New York Shitty are 5.82 miles lower than the center?
No.
...but it's because your math is waaay off sol. It's 304 square miles, not 304 miles square. 304 square miles would be approx 17.45 miles on a side. Try your calculations again.


How does a helium balloon defy the allegedly powerful effects of gravity? No wings, no ability to exert force of it's own, yet it rises to a point of equilibrium with its surroundings.
Because of gravity. The balloon is lighter than its surrounding and all you can see is the balloon rise. What you aren't seeing is the air above the balloon falling to take the balloons place as it rises.
...but then I've already explained this fact to you multiple times. All you do is reject answers after asking for them. If you already know how it works, why are you even asking? It's obvious you aren't really looking for answers. What you appear to be looking for is 3rd party confirmation that your ideas are correct.


Same is true if I jump into a pool of water with an air filled ball. Gravity does not pull that ball toward the center of the Earth..
Gravity is what allowed it to rise by pulling the heavier water that used to be above the ball, below it. That's what allows the ball to rise. Same principle as what allows your balloon to rise in the air.
...but then I've explained this to you multiple times and you simply reject it out of hand because it does not fit with your preconceived notions. This, despite the fact that you keep asking for answers.


.it rises to the surface of the water. IOW it's less dense than its surroundings and it seeks equilibrium.
Only because gravity caused it to.

Is the surface of a frozen lake...curved?
If the lake is big enough, yes.

I don't use drugs sir.
Perhaps it's time to try some?

We've placed entirely too much trust in pseudo-science to explain the world around us.
It certainly explains what we can see and experience in the World around us. All you need to do is to look at things in an objective manner. Which seems to be the problem here. You don't want to look at things objectively.
...and how is it you can understand all the intangibles of crypto's to an amazing degree, but are completely lost when it comes to any intangibles in this subject?


That trust has been betrayed. We've been led to believe a bunch of stuff that simply is not true.
Yet all the evidence suggests they aren't lying. I mean, of all the proof given of fake Moon landings, none of it holds water when critically examined.


If you're still skeptical, then simply tell me. WHAT IS GRAVITY?
It's curvature of space time.

Actual scientists with integrity, guys like Thomson, Faraday, Tesla would be spinning in their graves if they could see us now.
Yea, like see all the people searching "flat Earth" on google perhaps.


You should direct your questions to Astronomers and people who study the universe everyday.
No no no. Those people are part of the conspiracy to hide Earths true shape from us. I can't believe that you didn't already know this. Jheez, which rock from the Sun do you live on? lol


I don't trust that which I cannot observe with my own senses.
Then you haven't looked very well.

I trust that which I can observe, repeat, verify.
Drop something, pick it up and go it again. Twice. Voila! Verification.


There's no evidence for gravity that I can observe.
Then again, you're not looking very hard for it.


Plus astronomers all claim belief in NASA/moon landings...and that stuff is a joke.
Yet again, all evidence when examined critically suggests they did do it.


You've got to be effing kidding me with this ISS crap.
Yet you still won't attempt to see it for yourself. You post over and over about needing to verify things with your own eyes. So f'ing verify it already. Find out when it's supposed to pass over your locale, go outside and look for it at the time and location it is supposed to be visible.

We're being punked.
No, just you.


would it prove round if you booked east bound flights all the way around the world and back to your departure spot? carry your own compass to confirm east bound on every flight...
Nice try EO, but this is one of them gotcha's. Sol will just say his plane made a constant turn to fly in a circle over the flat disk of the Earth.
...but hey, thanks for trying.


The transcontinental railroad was 1776 miles long when completed. Did the guys that built it have to take the Earth's curvature into account? Are railroad tracks all curved?
Yes. RR tracks go up and down hills and around curves. All of which require RR tracks to bend.


A helium filled balloon of course rises because of it's It's Specific gravity is lessor than its surrounding atmosphere. Just as gasses with a higher SG, such as CO2 are heavier will sink. The helium balloon is still affected by earths gravity, it simply a matter of one force overcoming another like a tug of war.
I've explained this multiple times, but despite asking for help to understand this stuff, he just rejects it out of hand due to it not fitting his preconceived notions about why the balloon floats.
...and if someone has already convinced themselves how it works, are they honestly asking for help to understand it?


I can easily confirm that objects with density > air "sink" or "fall" and objects with density < air "rise". What I cannot confirm is that this is due to something called "gravity".
Yet in a zero g environment, none of that applies. Why does buoyancy as a result of density differences only work when subjected to the accelerating force of gravity?


That's the part that is a leap of faith.
Thinking the Earth is flat is the huge leap of faith.


If someone can please provide evidence that all mass attracts all other mass and propagates instantaneously
Gravity does not propagate instantly.


Now consider that a train traveling over this track is constantly traveling uphill. Make sense?
No, it doesn't make any sense at all because the train on a level surface is traveling around the Earths center of mass.
...and I know you don't believe it, but it's true.


As I've never seen the center of the Earth, I reject its evocation on principle.
Don't all objects have to have a center? You have a center, your car has a center. Why wouldn't a large object also have a center?
 

solarion

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OK, you can pour water on a baseball to demonstrate water does not wrap itself around small spheres. But the water runs off the baseball to wrap itself around a larger sphere.
Size matters. The smaller the sphere, the less gravitational pull.
Question for you: Is the Moon flat? How about the Sun?
So, in short, it's a fact...just neither of us can verify it. Right? Fortunately for us then that we have the always honest guys over at the department of war to confirm for us that gravity magic definitely works. Oh and btw they hired a bunch of former NAZI guys to lead their NASA division. That shouldn't bother any of us though, I'm sure they only got the "good" NAZI guys and not the ones that used propaganda.

Good thing the sun doesn't rip the water off the Earth then despite it's far far greater alleged gravity magic than the Earth's. I mean the sun's alleged gravity magic is powerful enough to allegedly pull in an allegedly gigantic planet like Jupiter from 483 million miles away, but at least it's nice enough not to override Earth's gravity magic and steal our water. Hey, the sun is obviously a good neighbor, we should send cookies.

...and for not ripping off our atmo-"sphere" with it's big gravity magic we should send the sun over a bottle of our finest scotch. #goodneighbor

I've no idea if the moon or sun are flat. They appear to be circles in the sky, but beyond that I cannot say with any certainty.
 
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Good gracious this rings of which is heavier, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers.

Which is taller, a 2049' MSL antenna in Jacksonville Florida or a 2049' MSL antenna in San Diego? If an aircraft flies across the country at an assigned altitude of 2,500' MSL (and misses the mountains along the way) they will pass 1 foot over both antennas and be in level flight the entire route, never climbing or descending. If this same aircraft had a radio altimeter their height above ground would change almost constantly.
 

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Logic and reason must be contorted to justify faith based "facts". You'll get the same if you go to your nearest church and begin requesting evidence that "God" created all or that his son died for our sins.

Did it happen? I've no idea, but I won't accept it as fact anymore than I will that selective gravity magic I cannot verify is holding our entire universe together.

Imagine how many favors theoretical Mercurians would owe the sun god. I mean their tiny planet is supposedly only 36 million miles from the sun and it's allegedly only 1516 miles in radius. Amazing that such a tiny object could just remain "falling" around the allegedly massive sun for several billion years instead of just crashing right into it. #entropylawsareoverrated #kelvinwasaretard

Theoretical Mercurian guys must never leave their knees. They owe the sun god huge for not just eating them whole with its powerful gravity magic.
 
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hoarder

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There are plenty of concepts like gravity I accept as real and I acknowledge that the theories about them may be wrong. We either accept the explanations which, upon a preponderance of the evidence and logic, makes more sense than any other explanations available or that we can dream up.
If you want to sell your explanations of why the Earth is flat, present them in a way that appeals more than the "official" version. I think I have enough intellectual flexibility to consider that something that I've long believed may be false.
 

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I'm not selling anything. I'm just pissed off that I fell for this dog shit and I want answers.

I've no idea if the Earth is "flat", but I am convinced that it's not a pear shaped oblate spheroid that's 8k miles in diameter.

There's evidence of missing curvature all around us, we're just trained to ignore it. The Earth is either flat or it's a truly massive spheroid and therefore the curvature is so gradual so as to be virtually undetectable.

Gravity as a theory is just flat out garbage. There's more verifiable evidence for bigfoot.

 
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dpong

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Joe. These (this) guy(s) have been wasting your time for a long time. Why do you keep taking the bait? Nobody is as dense as your adversary presents. Having fun pulling your chain... forever...

OK, so I assume you kind of like it?

[Internet trolling really is a 'thing.']
 

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I have joking on ignore. He actually believes 12 men landed on the moon between 1969 and 1972. ROFL

...adjust expectations accordingly.
 

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No debunking necessary.The earth APPEARS to be more or less very rough and bumpy at small scales, flat at moderate scales and curved at large scales.
If all you are doing is flying over the earth, it will APPEAR to be flat, if your plane can fly to the edge of space like the SR-71 the curvature becomes apparent.

R.
 

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OK, so I assume you kind of like it?
As he posted proof of, this flat Earth crap is growing in popularity. Mostly what I'm doing is countering his stuff in the hopes that anyone reading who might consider his points as being valid, will think twice about it before heading off on a tangent.
...and at first I thought he was trolling, but I'm convinced that he really does believe that stuff.
Edited to add:...and I actually like sol, and that's why I've been trying to help him. It's what I do. Ie: try to help people I like.
 
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Joe King

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I have joking on ignore.
Only because you can't handle the truth. So you run from it instead to hide in your safe space of flat Earth hokum. While pretending to ask for help understanding things you've admitted that you don't understand. lol



What we are dealing with here is a confirmation bias throttled up to 104%. lol
 

dpong

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As he posted proof of, this flat Earth crap is growing in popularity. Mostly what I'm doing is countering his stuff in the hopes that anyone reading who might consider his points as being valid, will think twice about it before heading off on a tangent.
...and at first I thought he was trolling, but I'm convinced that he really does believe that stuff.
You keep the thread alive, IMHO. Some things don't need refuting. They refute themselves.

My favorite thing is 'epistemology' meaning 'how do you know what you think you know?' So I support questioning everything - including if the earth is a globe or flat.

But 'come on'.

See, now I'm keeping the thread alive. That's how it works.
 

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I'm not forcing anybody to interact, I'm just waiting for someone to show up and explain how aircraft pilots deal with the curvature of the Earth. I've heard all the excuses...I'm an idiot, I'm a troll, I'm on drugs...now it'd be fun if we actually heard some explanations.

...also it seems submarine drivers don't deal with the curvature of the Earth when maintaining depth. Which is precisely what the ex navy man linked in the video above says in the interview.

If any of you guys would like to take a shot at answering a simple question while we wait for someone to debunk either of those interviewees that'd be great. I propose we start with this simple question.

What is gravity?
 

Joe King

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You keep the thread alive, IMHO. Some things don't need refuting. They refute themselves.

My favorite thing is 'epistemology' meaning 'how do you know what you think you know?' So I support questioning everything - including if the earth is a globe or flat.

But 'come on'.

See, now I'm keeping the thread alive. That's how it works.
I'm just glad others are involved in this thread too.
...and I hope you've been well dpong. Haven't seen ya around the forum as much here lately. Still riding your wheel?
 

dpong

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"What is gravity" is a great question.

The rest is just obvious/stupid. See I keep the thread alive. But not for long. Feed on someone else.
 

dpong

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I'm just glad others are involved in this thread too.
...and I hope you've been well dpong. Haven't seen ya around the forum as much here lately. Still riding your wheel?
Still riding the wheel. Upgraded. Doing great, hope you are, too.

I won't be involved in this thread too. So see you again later. :)
 

Joe King

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I'm not forcing anybody to interact, I'm just waiting for someone to show up and explain how aircraft pilots deal with the curvature of the Earth.
Yet when a pilot actually answers your question, you reject it out of hand.

Me? I'm willing to listen to the knowledge of those in fields I am not in.


Gravity is the resulting effect that mass has on spacetime.

Got any other questions I can help you with?