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ATB 'P' Mint Mark Coin Thread

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Can't "decide to mint more" now.... it's 2018. Question is did they mint more in the last 2-3 weeks of December. That was the question back then when they went suddenly dark. As time passes this scenario decreases in possibility but it won't be confirmed until the red "Sold Out" appears. If that happens they will do well and be the lowest mintage of the P's

I just picked up a couple NGC SP70's for a reasonable price just in case. I really don't like the huge holder but I'll get over it if they are sold out
And I got one, which will be my first graded SP70 ATB 5oz P coin!

There is still one more, by the way.
 

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Ahhh...the two I bought were the last ones of 4 available. Now I do see a 5th,,,,,
I do think that I bought from the same listing, as the timing of recent sales shows that more coins were sold in this listing in the last 2 days than other listings in the last week.

Are you going to buy the last coin, or will you let someone else on the forum buy it (just kidding)?
 

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I am trying to just watch the blizzard and not spend any more cash....maybe the power will go off and that will solve the temptation. Besides if I load up on these the "over 100 available" will surface:snow:
 

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Maybe the Clark numbers make more sense now when you realize that Ft. Moultrie has been on sale for 13 months, overminted in the 17.8k range, with still a crapload left AND easily available elsewhere for $20-25 LESS than at the mint with free shipping
 

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I do think that I bought from the same listing, as the timing of recent sales shows that more coins were sold in this listing in the last 2 days than other listings in the last week.

Are you going to buy the last coin, or will you let someone else on the forum buy it (just kidding)?
Some other buyer got the last coin from this listing, but I found a similar one at a slightly lower price, which is now sold out.

Here are the two original listings:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/322975222053

https://www.ebay.com/itm/132415250722

The slabs from the two listings are both NGC and nearly the same, except that the first one has a Early Releases label whereas the second one has a First Releases label.

Today's purchases felt like a buying spree, but I justified my spending because I do not plan to buy much gold or silver this year.
 

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I am trying to just watch the blizzard and not spend any more cash....maybe the power will go off and that will solve the temptation. Besides if I load up on these the "over 100 available" will surface:snow:
In the southeast, where I live, we now have freezing temperatures but no rain or snow. I think we are lucky here...

Maybe the Clark numbers make more sense now when you realize that Ft. Moultrie has been on sale for 13 months, overminted in the 17.8k range, with still a crapload left AND easily available elsewhere for $20-25 LESS than at the mint with free shipping
It definitely keeps collectors away from the Mint, but bargain hunters may now get some good opportunities on eBay and similar markets. I will probably be looking for some good discounts on 1 or 2 more ATBs on the secondary market, if the price is right.

I see the Mint is raising prices for these to $154.95 for 2018. bah humbug
It definitely does not make any sense. When the price was lowered to $150 a few years ago, spot silver was much higher than today's price.

Today's purchases felt like a buying spree, but I justified my spending because I do not plan to buy much gold or silver this year.
My goal this year is to spend less money on coins than last year or the year before, while still finding some interesting deals.
 

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The Clark "P" is still "unavailable" at the USMint as of the typing of this post. If the USMint declares the Clark "P" as "sold out" and the premium on it goes way up, then I will try to get lucky by "bottom fishing" for a Clark "P" whenever I go to coin shows. I am patient. I will keep an eye on the premium in the near future on this particular "P" to see if it will be worth my while to try to bottom fish for a Clark "P".
 

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I friggin knew this would happen. No way the Mint would not get as much cash out of every puck issue. I bet they will be over 17k of them in the end.

Oh well.....

Oh, Yesterday I got outbid on a OGP Clark P Puck by ONE CENT. That penny is HUGE
 
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I suppose I bought one coin too many on eBay now. I will see whether I can return one of them before it ships.

With prices of $229 and $225 for SP70s, at least I can say the prices were not increased due to the mintage hype.

Maybe I will try to return one of them and buy a raw one from the Mint.
 

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I friggin knew this would happen. No way the Mint would not get as much cash out of every puck issue. I bet they will be over 17k of them in the end.

Oh well.....

Oh, Yesterday I got outbid on a OGP Clark P Puck by ONE CENT. That penny is HUGE
As I know firsthand from bidding on eBay, sometimes it is good to lose!
 

Silver Art

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I friggin knew this would happen. No way the Mint would not get as much cash out of every puck issue. I bet they will be over 17k of them in the end.

Oh well.....

Oh, Yesterday I got outbid on a OGP Clark P Puck by ONE CENT. That penny is HUGE

I came close to buying a Clark "P" when it was available on the USMint.gov order page. The only reason that I did not was because I was concentrating on buying '70's silver art bars and I was not in a rush to get it since I thought at the time that the Clark "P" would still be available on the USMint.gov site without it becoming "unavailable". I am glad that I did not do it now. IMO It is certain that Clark "P" will be in the 17K - 18.9K mintage range.
 

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"P" mintages as of December 31, 2017 USMint report:

2016 FT Moultrie = 17,861

2017 Effigy Mounds = 16,477

2017 Frederick Douglass = 16,708

2017 Ozark = 16.568

2017 Ellis Island = 17.643

2017 George Rogers Clark = 14,839
 

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Maybe I will try to return one of them and buy a raw one from the Mint.
Ummmm...better off keeping the SP70's. Buying a raw P from the Mint for $160 isn't going to pay off

If you would have graded one puck (NGC ER/FR) it is $18 (economy), $10 ER/FR designation, and $25 for the oversized holder. ($53 grading plus $160 puck = $213 and this is without shipping fees both ways and a $8 handling fee AND no 70 guarantee.

Now I know you wouldn't submit for grading but just trying to say that $229 for a guaranteed 70 is fine by me

I should also add that the ER/FR cutoff date has passed so that adds a bit of value to the $229 puck
 
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Ummmm...better off keeping the SP70's. Buying a raw P from the Mint for $160 isn't going to pay off

If you would have graded one puck (NGC ER/FR) it is $18 (economy), $10 ER/FR designation, and $25 for the oversized holder. ($53 grading plus $160 puck = $213 and this is without shipping fees both ways and a $8 handling fee AND no 70 guarantee.

Now I know you wouldn't submit for grading but just trying to say that $229 for a guaranteed 70 is fine by me

I should also add that the ER/FR cutoff date has passed so that adds a bit of value to the $229 puck
Good explanation of the various factors causing the price to be as high as it is, and I now feel a little better about my purchase.

Now I am struggling with eBay to resolve the return of my second purchase. Even though the price was $4 lower than the first one, I started a return on the second coin because the first coin already shipped, but not the second one. The problem is that eBay requires me to receive the coin before I can return it, and now it says I have by Jan 16 to send the coin back. The estimated delivery date is from Jan 13 to Jan 19. If I receive it between Jan 17 and Jan 19, it will be past the deadline to send the coin back (although eBay customer service said that I can call in to extend the case by 5 days to give me time to send it). If I don't receive it by Jan 19, then normally I would be allowed to open an item not received case, but since I started a return, this is no longer possible (but again, customer service said that I can call in to escalate the case). It's my first time calling eBay customer service, and I don't have a good feeling about it.
 

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Ummmm...better off keeping the SP70's. Buying a raw P from the Mint for $160 isn't going to pay off

If you would have graded one puck (NGC ER/FR) it is $18 (economy), $10 ER/FR designation, and $25 for the oversized holder. ($53 grading plus $160 puck = $213 and this is without shipping fees both ways and a $8 handling fee AND no 70 guarantee.

Now I know you wouldn't submit for grading but just trying to say that $229 for a guaranteed 70 is fine by me

I should also add that the ER/FR cutoff date has passed so that adds a bit of value to the $229 puck
This is exactly why I stopped buying P's from the mint. Why pay $149, which is a tremendous premium over spot when I can get bullion for as low as $92 during the Dec. drop. In addition, SP70's can be found on ebay for $160 or so if you look at history and coupled with the 10% bucks, it's a no brainer. Now, you might consider the Clark to be a "key date", but it's only down by a 13% mintage or so by many other dates if they stop now. That's not even close to what "real numi's" to consider a date to be a semi-key. If popularity were strong, maybe, but these things are not that. Less than 20,000, pffth.

Are bullion pucks a better buy than eagles? I believe so. I did get some more eagles from an online dealer at $1.69 over. Nice, clean, BU random dates. Saved a $1 an ounce over the bullion pucks. You do have the pundits still claiming that you shouldn't buy large 5 ounce bullion which perhaps detracts from sales.

I do not know if there is a historical series that has risen in value to any great length or popularity after it's completion that was offered by the mint or it's mint resellers. I am hoping this one may do so. Either way, there is still silver in them there coins.

I will ride out the bullion to the end, in either case, and bottom feed along the way.
 

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Good explanation of the various factors causing the price to be as high as it is, and I now feel a little better about my purchase.

Now I am struggling with eBay to resolve the return of my second purchase. Even though the price was $4 lower than the first one, I started a return on the second coin because the first coin already shipped, but not the second one. The problem is that eBay requires me to receive the coin before I can return it, and now it says I have by Jan 16 to send the coin back. The estimated delivery date is from Jan 13 to Jan 19. If I receive it between Jan 17 and Jan 19, it will be past the deadline to send the coin back (although eBay customer service said that I can call in to extend the case by 5 days to give me time to send it). If I don't receive it by Jan 19, then normally I would be allowed to open an item not received case, but since I started a return, this is no longer possible (but again, customer service said that I can call in to escalate the case). It's my first time calling eBay customer service, and I don't have a good feeling about it.
Well, if your only reason to send back is remorse, your seller might reject it. A big seller may just accept the refund to save their name. I bought a $500 collectible and bid without reading the extra info in that button some sellers now add. I used that as an excuse. I requested a refund from the seller immediately and got an "are you kidding me" reply. I accepted delivery and then sent it right back for a refund. Refund done.
 

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Well, if your only reason to send back is remorse, your seller might reject it. A big seller may just accept the refund to save their name. I bought a $500 collectible and bid without reading the extra info in that button some sellers now add. I used that as an excuse. I requested a refund from the seller immediately and got an "are you kidding me" reply. I accepted delivery and then sent it right back for a refund. Refund done.
I wouldn't exactly say that my reason is remorse, but rather new information (on the mintage) that I got one day after I bought the coin--namely, that a sellout is no longer imminent for this coin, as it originally appeared. For the record, the seller tried to stop the coin from being shipped, but being MCM with a large operation, came back saying that the coin was already in the shipping warehouse to be shipped, which means I need to wait for delivery of the coin and send it back if I want a refund.

Due to the uncertain final mintage of this coin, I consider its value to be somewhere between $180 and $300, with the odds now pointing somewhere closer to $180. At a price of $225 or $229.50, I am willing to keep one of the two purchases. Before availability of this coin at the Mint was restored on 1/5, the situation was looking like the value was closer to $300, leading me to purchase 2 coins instead of 1. If we take the halfway mark of $240, then $229.50 still looks like a reasonable deal, but I would only go with 1 coin at this point, due to the uncertainty of the mintage.

I should have been smarter and left the first coin unopened, as its price was $4.50 more than the second coin. Now, I have to decide between repackaging the first coin and sending it back or sending the second coin right back with a slightly smaller refund. I am inclined to do the latter, as it is the coin I originally intended to return, not the first one (due to my hopes that MCM would accept an instant return before shipping the coin).
 

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New sales numbers:

Precious Metal Products 16AN 2016 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - FT MLTR 17878 01/08/2018
Precious Metal Products 17AJ 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - EFF MNDS 16498 01/08/2018
Precious Metal Products 17AK 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - DOUGLASS 16742 01/08/2018
Precious Metal Products 17AL 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - OZARK 16616 01/08/2018
Precious Metal Products 17AM 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - ELLIS ISLAND 17641 01/08/2018
Precious Metal Products 17AN 2017 ATB SILVER UNC 5 OZ - G R CLARK 14494 01/08/2018
 

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Got me one of these for $151 yesterday. Yes, pricing is subject to change.

May 9, 2011
WASHINGTON — The United States Mint will begin accepting orders for the 2010 America the Beautiful Five Ounce Silver Uncirculated Coin – Yellowstone National Park at noon Eastern Time (ET) on May 17, 2011. Orders will be limited to one coin per household for the first week of sales. At the end of one week, the United States Mint will re–evaluate this limit and either extend, adjust or remove it.

The coin is currently priced at $279.95. As with all products sold by the United States Mint containing precious metals, pricing is subject to change.
 

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Spot price for the end of April beginning of May was in the $44-48 range. Might have had something to do with that price
 

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Ok....for you numbers people.

In Sunday's report the Clark P's were DOWN 345. Yes, DOWN. Remember they only went back on sale on Friday....soooooo they couldn't have been ordered before that. Were there 345 returns in one day? And I doubt they could have been removed from the count until they were shipped back and, even if they could be removed, they only could have been ordered when it was KNOWN they were back on sale so that's not a reason for returning them.

AND that 345 is enough, obviously, to presently have "over 100" available now WITHOUT additional minting

Presently still not regretting purchase of a few additional....yet

Inquiring minds want to know.....
 

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Fun facts re: Clark P

Sunday's reported numbers sold (14,494)is lower than it was a month ago (14,612) which was a week after it was released and 425 less than the 12/17 report (14,919) . How can an issue keep dropping numbers? Why mint more?
 

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Ok....fun fact: there are only 229 (not 3000 which would go with my boring P puck comment) left in stock. Remember they can't mint any more so I would rethink returning any that have been ordered. Final numbers will determine if this will be the key BUT in any case it will be a very low mintage issue

The only thing that will screw this up is if they are waiting for packaging and have already minted the coins. I will take that risk....

Don't write this one off yet....
 
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Ok....for you numbers people.

In Sunday's report the Clark P's were DOWN 345. Yes, DOWN. Remember they only went back on sale on Friday....soooooo they couldn't have been ordered before that. Were there 345 returns in one day? And I doubt they could have been removed from the count until they were shipped back and, even if they could be removed, they only could have been ordered when it was KNOWN they were back on sale so that's not a reason for returning them.

AND that 345 is enough, obviously, to presently have "over 100" available now WITHOUT additional minting

Presently still not regretting purchase of a few additional....yet

Inquiring minds want to know.....
I agree that 345 returned coins are a possible reason for having availability of the Clark coin restored to over 100 coins, but it is not the only reason. The other reason, obviously, is that perhaps new coins were minted.

Fun facts re: Clark P

Sunday's reported numbers sold (14,494)is lower than it was a month ago (14,612) which was a week after it was released and 425 less than the 12/17 report (14,919) . How can an issue keep dropping numbers? Why mint more?
The reason the Mint may have minted more is that maybe they wanted to capitalize on the great design of the Clark coin, thinking that its sales would carry on strong throughout 2018.

The reason that the mintage numbers dropped is very simple. The last mintage number only takes into account the returns that were finalized during the time the coin was unavailable. It does not take into account any sales that happened after the date of the mintage report, which was 1/8/2018. Any sales starting from 1/9/2018 and onward are not included in that mintage report.

Ok....fun fact: there are only 229 (not 3000 which would go with my boring P puck comment) left in stock. Remember they can't mint any more so I would rethink returning any that have been ordered. Final numbers will determine if this will be the key BUT in any case it will be a very low mintage issue

The only thing that will screw this up is if they are waiting for packaging and have already minted the coins. I will take that risk....

Don't write this one off yet....
I agree it is possible that a sellout of the Clark is imminent, but I disagree on your claim that it is nearly assured.

Here is some ammunition for your theory, though, just to let you know I am not trying to start an argument.

The Clark coins are still available at the 2017 price of $149.95. Later this year, the 2018 coins will be sold at a slightly higher price of $154.95. Of course, the Mint was fully aware of this future price increase in December. Knowing that the 2017 and 2018 coins require the same level of resources to produce, the Mint would not likely push for more 2017 Clark coins to be minted, for doing so would forfeit $5 in profit for every coin minted.

So in the interest of strengthening their bottom line, the Mint decided to abort production of the Clark coins because their sale price was $5 less than next year's coins.

I would say there is a 50% chance that the Clark will sell out within the next several weeks. Maybe I don't need to return my 2nd SP70 that should be arriving in several days...
 

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Is it a fact that the mint resells all the returns? If the coins are less than ideal with nicks and scratches, I would think they would send those back to sunshine at spot price to be made into new blanks. I think the Clark is done, especially with 2018 products coming online.
 

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The reason the Mint may have minted more is that maybe they wanted to capitalize on the great design of the Clark coin, thinking that its sales would carry on strong throughout 2018.

The reason that the mintage numbers dropped is very simple. The last mintage number only takes into account the returns that were finalized during the time the coin was unavailable. It does not take into account any sales that happened after the date of the mintage report, which was 1/8/2018. Any sales starting from 1/9/2018 and onward are not included in that mintage report.
Correct..but....key point...as of yesterday afternoon there were only 229 available for sale
 

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Hmmmm.................I MIGHT get a Clark "P". Still watching and waiting. Still over 100 of them left as of this post.
 

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Correct..but....key point...as of yesterday afternoon there were only 229 available for sale
Interesting. I thought it was just "over 100".

For the record, I ordered one raw Clark coin last night.
 

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I snooze I lose.................Again.

:thumbs down:
 

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Looks like I will be keeping the slabbed SP70 Clark coin coming from MCM in about a week, after all.

I also decided to buy one more coin from the first seller, who lowered the price of his NGC coins from $229.50 to $222.50.

That makes 3 slabbed SP70s (one already in hand) and 1 raw coin ordered by me.

By the way, while looking on eBay, I found some MS69 PL coins being sold at reasonable prices. I will be looking for these from time to time and might buy one if the price is right.
 

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A few thousand less minted does not make it that much more sacred, IMO. Ya, the 2012 coins are still getting extra premium and the huge 2011 mintage makes them less desirable but I will buy 3 of any of the other years over 2 of the Clark pucks for the same money. Future value, I may be proved this is a wrong opinion.